"The RAC welcomed a trial but said continued use of average speed cameras was also "essential"
When did the RAC climb over that side of the fence?
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Some people don't understand "average", don't care, or think, or know they don't work. I drove through the M6 50 mph roadworks last weekend, most people trundled along at about 50 ish, a few "big" cars and white vans totally ignored the 50 limit, some passing me at 70+. Don't try that in sunny Scotland, they actually work up here. The next door neighbor in London had their registration plates stolen last week (Range Rover), that might be the answer cloned, cars. When reported the Police said " A car with your registration is probably doing a bank raid at the moment!", the least of the potential problems.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 07:55
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My daughter's number plates were stolen a few years back, and used once only, to fill a vehicle with £120 worth of fuel. Far more than her C'eed would take!!
I also did the M6 last week and noticed the same as Old Navy. It's no excuse, but there are many miles of road works between Birmingham and Liverpool!!
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As I was driving up the M74 I was as usual checking my left mirror when passing on slip roads for high speed arrivals. No surprise, on a very quiet early Sunday morning there was a traffic car parked on one of them waiting for the unwary speed testing their car. :-)
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>> Some people don't understand "average",
>>
I think we've had this discussion on another thread. The conclusion seemed to be that it wasn't a true "average" at all, and that you could still be booked for exceeding the marked speed even if your average speed over the course was below.
Is that your understanding?
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Obviously you could be booked for exceeding the limit, for example by a camera van within the limited area with average speed cameras. I was thinking of the people who speed through the limited area but slow for the yellow gantry average cameras. We have acquired HADECS cameras on many of the vertical motorway gantry posts up here, I also noticed a lot more of them while I was south of civilisation. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 08:40
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>> speed through the limited area but slow for the yellow gantry average cameras. We have
>> acquired HADECS cameras on many of the vertical motorway gantry posts up here, I also
>> noticed a lot more of them while I was south of civilisation. :-)
Hadecs cameras are not average, they are spot. There are numerous Gatso cameras still in situ on the M25, none of them work. There are now lots of Hadecs cameras, all of them work but only when the smart motorway limit is in operation. Same for the M3 to Fleet.
Prosecution level appears to be the 10%+2 formula.
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>> Hadecs cameras are not average, they are spot.
Did I say that HADEC cameras were average cameras? I must have made a mistake I always knew they are spot cameras.
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>>There are now lots of Hadecs cameras, all of them work but only when the smart motorway limit is in operation.
>>
I have just driven into Edinburgh and back on a variable speed limited motorway, (M90). I saw the opposite direction HADECS cameras flash on both journeys both for cars travelling at warp speed. There were no speed limits on the overhead gantries so the limit was 70 mph. This is the first, and second time I have seen these cameras activate. Do not be too sure they do not work when no limit other than 70 mph is in force.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 18 Jul 18 at 20:22
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One set of permanent ASCs on Allt Rhuallt on the A55 - a fine bit of road - people regularly over-estimate their speed (and ability sadly) on it, consequently every silly season caravans exit stage left. The signs are shown well in advance of the camera arrays and anyone being caught. Every time I've used the roads in the last few weeks, I'm routinely overtaken by cars and vans.
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>> I think we've had this discussion on another thread. The conclusion seemed to be that
>> it wasn't a true "average" at all,
The problem is it IS a true average. A simple time and distance calculation. You could what the hell you like between them as long as the time/distance isnt exceeded. Few police forces will waste a valuable mobile van in a Specs zone.
The speed camera database on my phone notifies me on the start of a section, and provides me a continuous real average speed in the section, but its too much faff to keep your eye glued to the phone so I just nail the cruise to 57mph (in a 50 obviously)
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 09:19
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Returning Southbound from Carlisle yesterday on the M6 ( Sunday) there was a posted 50 limit between J37>J36. After 20:00 there was very light traffic, and apart from the odd few cars and HGVs most vehicles were travelling around 65/70. I didn’t see cameras of any kind, and pootling along at 65 I was overtaken by lots of traffic.
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 12:05
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>> >>
>>
>> The problem is it IS a true average. A simple time and distance calculation. You
>> could what the hell you like between them as long as the time/distance isnt exceeded.
>>
So just to labour the point, you could hang back either deliberately or because of cautious vehicles ahead, so clock up "credit", then move over into the fast lane and shortly before the end of the stretch gun it and overtake all the traffic still doing 50.
It could be a useful ploy for those in super-cars for getting past ordinary traffic. As long as you got your speed back down to 70-80 by the resumption of the ordinary limits, and didn't miscalculate, you could have a brief blast at 120 if you really wanted to.
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>> So just to labour the point, you could hang back either deliberately or because of
>> cautious vehicles ahead, so clock up "credit", then move over into the fast lane and
>> shortly before the end of the stretch gun it and overtake all the traffic still
>> doing 50.
You could but you wouldn't get beyond me who was nailed to 57mph
>> the ordinary limits, and didn't miscalculate, you could have a brief blast at 120 if
>> you really wanted to.
You could but you would need a flight data recorder to work that lot out.
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Average speed cameras are often placed in a series. There may be half a dozen cameras over a twenty mile stretch of road say. Any two can be paired to establish an average speed. As a driver therefore you have no way of knowing which stretch of road is being used to establish the average. Only the police and authorities are aware which stretch it is.
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My satnav, a basic TomTom, knows where the average speed areas are, (even the temporary ones) and displays a running average speed from the start of the area to the end, it then reverts to the actual speed display. If my satnav can do that I would assume that any with up to date speed camera data can.
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Yes your satnave know where the cameras are at the start and end of an average speed limit stretch of road. Where they are multiple cameras it does not know which cameras are paired to establish the average. It is therefore possible to exceed the limit between the two paired cameras but be below the average for the entire length of monitored road.
www.speedcamerasuk.com/specs.htm
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>> Yes your satnave know where the cameras are at the start and end of an
>> average speed limit stretch of road. Where they are multiple cameras it does not know
>> which cameras are paired to establish the average.
It matters not a jot where the start and finish is, or what cameras are live or not, you use the average from the first camera at the start of the zone to the last camera at the end. Or don't exceed 57mph between any two cameras live or not, the average at wherever they measure will be safe
The cameras in between are an irrelevance.
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Did I say some people don't understand average? :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 17 Jul 18 at 20:19
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I rather think you don’t or at least haven’t understood the point I was making. To be caught for speeding you have to have exceeded the speed limit between the two paired cameras. In some stretches of road that are monitored by SPECS and subject to an average speed limit there are multiple cameras. Only two will be paired and you will not know which ones they are
It is therefore perfectly possible in theory to travel the entire length of the road that is subject to the limit at an average below the limit but be above the limit in the section of the road being monitored by the paired cameras.
Is that clear now?
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>> Or don't exceed 57mph between any
>> two cameras live or not, the average at wherever they measure will be safe
I'd sort of hope somebody recorded consistently at 57 between A>B, B>C , C>D through to H>J in a 20 mile long motorway rebuild would be nicked. 10% + 2mph is intended to mitigate for lack of observation or other misfortune at a static cameras.
It's not a licence to take the piXX
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 17 Jul 18 at 20:34
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When the 40 mph average roadworks zone was set up during the build of the Queensferry crossing 800 drivers were done for speeding during the first week according to the local press. Whether true or not it certainly slowed a lot of people down. A good thing as the road layout frequently changed, often overnight on a daily basis.
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I've never quite understood this obsession with the last mph.
If I am in a sector with average speed cameras wanting me to drive at 50, then I'll drive at 50, more or less - probably 48 - 52 or thereabouts.. Who can be a***d with all that work and calculation to drive at 57?
Its a b***** motorway, who cares? It's not like it's some swooping country road where you fancy getting lairy, it's a straight line at a constant speed. Stick the cruise control on at a likely speed and listen to the radio. Life is too short.
I got loads of speeding convictions when I was a youthful nutter usually at ridiculous speeds, but getting done within 5mph or so of the speed limit ?? What for?
Speed limits here are about the same as the UK given a bit of metric conversion rounding up and down, and there simply isn't this obsession with every last drop of speed.
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>> I've never quite understood this obsession with the last mph.
>>
>> If I am in a sector with average speed cameras wanting me to drive at
>> 50, then I'll drive at 50, more or less - probably 48 - 52 or
>> thereabouts.. Who can be a***d with all that work and calculation to drive at 57?
Yeah its huge agro to accelerate to 57 mph and click the cruise button.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 17 Jul 18 at 20:49
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I run at the limit as indicated by the car, the satnav gives 47 in a 50. So glad I don't have to save every second on a journey and then work out what to do with them.
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>> I run at the limit as indicated by the car, the satnav gives 47 in
>> a 50. So glad I don't have to save every second on a journey and
>> then work out what to do with them.
You are a jazz driver, you only need sufficient time to stagger to the seafront bench....
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>> run at the limit as indicated by the car
So do I, more or less. I cannot imagine it makes a blind bit of difference to average journey times.
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>> I'd sort of hope somebody recorded consistently at 57 between A>B, B>C , C>D through
>> to H>J in a 20 mile long motorway rebuild would be nicked. 10% + 2mph
>> is intended to mitigate for lack of observation or other misfortune at a static cameras.
>>
>> It's not a licence to take the piXX
Yes it is.
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>>
>> Yes it is.
>>
BMW driver, nuff said!
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>> >>
>> >> Yes it is.
>> >>
>>
>> BMW driver, nuff said!
Jazz driver.
I SAID JAZZ DRIVER
Is your hearing aid battery flat?
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Flatter than your inflated ego, are you related to Trump? :-)
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Higher Sunday roadworks speed limit tested - No FM2R
