www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44759150
Ministers also want new street lights to come with charge points wherever there's on-street parking.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44759150
>>
>> Ministers also want new street lights to come with charge points wherever there's on-street parking.
Ok, who is going to upgrade the all power supply cables from previously 60 watt led to 3 kw car charging points.
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All this exciting new technology can be disabled by a humble Creme Egg :-)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-44561039
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>> All this exciting new technology can be disabled by a humble Creme Egg :-)
>>
£800 to fix it !!!!!
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>> All this exciting new technology can be disabled by a humble Creme Egg :-)
>>
And a moron who thinks it's clever to do that.
Scandalous waste of a Creme Egg in my view
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>>Ok, who is going to upgrade the all power supply cables from previously 60 watt led to 3 kw car charging points.
Seems it is only targeting new build homes so on estates it will be the house buyer.
We still have the scars, potholes etc from cabling to homes in the urban areas so what a mess it will be with power cables.
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>> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44759150
>> >>
>> >> Ministers also want new street lights to come with charge points wherever there's on-street
>> parking.
>>
>> Ok, who is going to upgrade the all power supply cables from previously 60 watt
>> led to 3 kw car charging points.
>>
Don’t they mean that when developers build new estates with on-road parking they have to install not only street lighting but EV charging points too? Sure, it’ll be more expensive than runnnig just a lighting circuit, but I don’t think they’re proposing retr-fitting charge points to existing lampposts are they? Though I’m sure over time as these things need replacing it’ll happen, or if someone sees a business case for doing so in densely populated areas?
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>> Don’t they mean that when developers build new estates with on-road parking they have to
>> install not only street lighting but EV charging points too? Sure, it’ll be more expensive
>> than runnnig just a lighting circuit, but I don’t think they’re proposing retr-fitting charge points
>> to existing lampposts are they? Though I’m sure over time as these things need replacing
>> it’ll happen, or if someone sees a business case for doing so in densely populated
>> areas?
Does this mean that Old Navy doesn't really need to worry?
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>> Does this mean that Old Navy doesn't really need to worry?
>>
I am not worried, petrol will see out my driving days. Battery driven cars are only a stopgap poor solution to transfer pollution from the people who live in cities to power stations.
I am in London at the moment and the folk I am staying with have said that in the last few years the roads seem quieter at off peak times, maybe the anti car policies are making a difference here where there is wall to wall 24/7 public transport. Not that it does much for rural dwellers with one bus a day if they are lucky.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 10 Jul 18 at 10:25
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Do all electric cars use the same kind of plug and socket?
Last week I noticed 6 charging points at a motorway services. Three of them had signs saying "Tesla charging point" and the other three, a short distance away, said "Electric vehicle charging point".
Can any electric car use either, do Teslas perhaps use round pin not square, do you need adaptors, or do Tesla drivers carry special cards so that only they can use Tesla charging points?
Another point occuring to me is that if electric vehicles become the future then charging will stop being free quite soon. Fuel carries enormous tax duties, and the government isn't going to just give that away?
How will they charge it on home charging points?
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AFAIK the Tesla points are solely for Tesla and presumably funded by the company.
As far as other makes are concerned there are several different plug types and different charge rates AC or DC etc. Friend of mine tried to charge his recently acquired Zoe at Chester Racecourse but couldn't because a BMW was already using the only charging lead with right plug. Didn't need a charge as he was only 10 miles from home and was just experimenting.
I doubt charging will remain free but the complication of taxing home charging means the govts revenue take will move to a per mile user charge.
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> I doubt charging will remain free but the complication of taxing home charging means the
>> govts revenue take will move to a per mile user charge.
>>
That'll make brexit look simple! :-)
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>> Do all electric cars use the same kind of plug and socket?
No, I think there's about half a dozen different designs.
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2 big points
1 Charging is not free in very many places, Scotland is, as usual, an exception to this. You join one of the networks, e.g. Polar / Chargemaster and pat subscription & sometimes a usage charge for most public charge points.
2 Tesla charging is the different one, most "normal: chargers use a standard "type 2" plug, most electric cars can also be charged, more slowly, from a 13 amp socket with a suitable cable.
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Charging (excluding enlightened Scotland) has moved on from almost always free a few years ago to almost never free now. Prices range from nominal to outrageous.
Example -Shell, who now own a charging company called Newmotion, have some chargers on their forecourts. They have, in the last few days, started to price at 49p per kWh. A modern Leaf or Zoe will take about 40 to 45 of those to fully charge. Either car will give you, roughly 150 miles-ish out of that.
So, ballpark, it costs £20 per 150 miles on those chargers, to compare with just slamming a tank of liquid fuel in, in two minutes.
I can't imagine, if the market will bear it, that the other charging schemes will continue for ever without edging towards and beyond those kind of costs.
Charging at home is very much cheaper of course, but there is talk already of trying to differentiate car charging from other domestic use in some manner (maybe smart metering might play a part?) and having separate pricing for it.
As always, the "right" thing to do in a green sense (ignoring concerns about kids digging up cobalt in the Congo, an ignored scandal), is outweighed by the "need" to make a profit.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 11 Jul 18 at 09:02
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It does solve the "problem" of hybrid users using charging points, when we have the alternative we will simply not use the charge points.
Example I am staying in a Holiday Inn this week, it has 2 Polar charge points in the car park
They cost £6 per connection, my car takes about 30 miles of electric maximum, no brainer no chance.
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>> Charging (excluding enlightened Scotland) has moved on from almost always free a few years ago
>> to almost never free now.
HM gov, (and HMNS SCOTS GOV) will soon be slapping duty on automotive electricity. Or some other form of revenue raising to make up for lack of fuel duty.
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This is the real reason behind smart meters, it's not really to get cartoon characters gaz and leccy under control don't you know. Tariff shaping with higher price per kWh (taxes?), rationing.
Algorythms can easily see a car charging or a kettle boiling. It's all in the U.N. whitepapers Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030.
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So how do you write an algorithm that differentiates a car being charged from a night storage heater or a kettle from an electric hob?
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>> So how do you write an algorithm that differentiates a car being charged from a
>> night storage heater or a kettle from an electric hob?
>>
AFAIK they already know, for the subsidised charging points, as they have a separate meter and SIM card that reports usage. Not linked to billing, and as we don’t have a smart meter not sure how it can be. And I assume if you buy an unsubsidised EV point they can’t either.
Why is it so exoenisive to have one installed though? It’s only a 16/32 A socket, after alll...!
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>> So how do you write an algorithm that differentiates a car being charged from a
>> night storage heater or a kettle from an electric hob?
>>
I've no idea, but we keep being told that Smart meters enable us to tell how much electricity each appliance uses, and determine the most economical time to switch it on.
So I assumed that Smart meters can:
a) identify individual appliances - perhaps things have different footprints in terms of the pattern of their electrical consumption? (washing machines switch on and off, turn on heater element, thermostaticaly vary the current, motors stopping, reversing, etc throughout the cycle. A battery charger won't be a constant current - building up slowly, period of fast charge, winding down as it reaches capacity)
b) identify the price tarifs applying at any moment during the day, and time the switching of appliances so as to take advantage of the lowest prices. (We do that already in a simple way, just by setting the washing machine and dishwasher to come on at night on economy-7, but there would be so much more possible under variable tarifs that vary according to national electricity draw hour by hour)
If they can't do that then they aren't really being "smart" at all.
I would think that it's pretty easy to identify what kind of appliance is being used. Imagine a graph print out of current v. time, and then comparing the shape with standard images of different things. Nothing is ever straight on/off - even a light bulb will vary at crucial moments.
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>> So I assumed that Smart meters can:
Edit.
Do several 'smart' things....
>> If they can't do that then they aren't really being "smart" at all.
The Telegraph suggests that the earlier smart meters are, in fact, a bit thick.
Later ones are brighter.
tinyurl.com/ybgbpaes
Apologies if it's behind a paywall.
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No matter which way you're going to get charged....:-)
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>> >> Do all electric cars use the same kind of plug and socket?
>>
>> No, I think there's about half a dozen different designs.
>>
Oh, wonderful. So not only do you have to find a vacant charging point it has to have a compatible connection. This seems to be a bit more complicated than pouring petrol into a hole.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 20:04
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And you discover this just as you were about to buy one. Must have burgered your plans right up.
Why does it bother you so much that others might want one?
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All new models have the same AC charge port, the so-called "Type 2"
Some older/about to be updated models have Type 1 ports but all have cables to attach to type 2 charge posts.
"Rapid" DC charging goes through a second socket on the car (Chademo) or an extension to the car's type 2 socket (CCS) - but these chargers all have attached plugs rather relying on the car owner having one.
It's about as difficult in practice as not misfuelling an ICE.
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>> All new models have the same AC charge port, the so-called "Type 2"
>>
>> Some older/about to be updated models have Type 1 ports but all have cables to
>> attach to type 2 charge posts.
>>
>> "Rapid" DC charging goes through a second socket on the car (Chademo) or an extension
>> to the car's type 2 socket (CCS) - but these chargers all have attached plugs
>> rather relying on the car owner having one.
>>
>> It's about as difficult in practice as not misfuelling an ICE.
>>
So there’s basically two types, a bit like a petrol and diesel pump then ;)
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>>
>> So there’s basically two types, a bit like a petrol and diesel pump then ;)
>>
Or LPG - you just carry an adaptor for the other type.
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>> Why does it bother you so much that others might want one?
>>
It doesn't, but having seen a friend fall for the electric car hype and buy an unsuitable car and get hit in the wallet for his poor choice, I am deeply sceptical of of battery powered cars. A battery powered car would not be suitable for my usage pattern and I am not convinced they will be a viable choice for the majority of car users.
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And so my subsidised motoring continues....
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I have no problem with your subsidy, and the constraints it put on your car use. Think about the thousands of cars using the motorways at 70 /80 mph at any given time and the infrastructure required to charge them every 100 miles or so.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 21:53
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>>...the infrastructure required to charge them every 100 miles or so.
This one?
www.zap-map.com/live/
For guys/gals driving 200 miles every day, diesel's still top choice.
For municipal cars/vans/buses they really should be tooling around towns and cities in EV variants.
The ultimate "Green" option is to re-introduce smallpox but I don't think even Putin will go for that.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 16 Jul 18 at 22:16
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I feel sure I'm repeating myself here...
There are cars which are not solely electric which have the "same range" as a petrol car. I've got one, and loads of other people have too. For these cars the constraints are all in your mind.
Nearly all of my mileage week in week out is around town and well within my electric-only range (around 40 - 45 miles in summer) but for longer distance journeys the petrol engine kicks in to drive the electric motor. I went to Cornwall last week (300+ miles) and got around 45 mpg on petrol, travelling at normal motorway speeds.
If I was going to Cornwall every week I probably wouldn't own this car.
I do completely understand that they aren't suitable for everyone, also that the infrastructure needs expansion, but I don't get why you are so blinkered and negative about them ON.
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>> Nearly all of my mileage week in week out is around town and well within
>> my electric-only range (around 40 - 45 miles in summer) but for longer distance journeys
>> the petrol engine kicks in to drive the electric motor. I went to Cornwall last
>> week (300+ miles) and got around 45 mpg on petrol, travelling at normal motorway speeds.
>>
So most of the time you are either carrying around an engine you are not using or a motor and batteries you are not using. I would rather use a slightly smaller car with more room inside and is just or more economical as it has less weight to carry around. I have just completed a 1,000 mile round trip, Edinburgh to London and back at 70 mph, and including a week of running around in London (off peak) in a well loaded two up 130 bhp petrol car (my Jazz). The full to full consumption was 48.8 mpg, more than happy with that. The geriatric hooligan mpg is 37, also happy with that! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 17 Jul 18 at 08:34
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>> but I don't get why you are so blinkered and negative about them ON.
>>
>>
That's the navy for you - still hankering after battleships. :)
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>> That's the navy for you - still hankering after battleships. :)
>>
I agree, but these days it is aircraft carriers, a useless vanity project.
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>> It doesn't, but having seen a friend fall for the electric car hype and buy
>> an unsuitable car and get hit in the wallet for his poor choice, I am
>> deeply sceptical of of battery powered cars. A battery powered car would not be suitable
>> for my usage pattern and I am not convinced they will be a viable choice
>> for the majority of car users.
Hype/advertising is a good way to identify mugs as those who follow it even when thought should say 'hang on'.
Electrics have made leaps/bounds since those little buggies one saw in London 10-15 years ago.
Leaf, Zoe etc will meet needs of, if not majority a very significant minority of users. From early Spring to date, except for fact I chose to use it for as trip to Scotland last month, my Roomster has been almost solely devoted to my 14 mile round trip commute. Its other trips have been shopping over similar distance. If an electric could do Northampton>Oxford and return we could replace 1 from 2 ICE vehicles.
Our friend near Chester who has one is a GP. As long as it gets him between home and surgery sites, on home visits and to station when he goes to London or Cardiff, as the Zoe does, he'll be fine. If it lets him down once in a blue moon day hire, taxi or calling out the wife or daughter will save the day.
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Having gone into semi retirement in April and drastically cutting my mileage an electric car would easily suit my needs now. However, I'll have to wait a few years yet as I'm in the sub 1k market when it comes to buying.
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>>I'll have to wait a few years yet as I'm in the sub 1k market when it comes to buying
Might be longer than you think - the scrap value of a LEAF battery is ££££.
www.ebay.co.uk/b/Car-Batteries/61504?Brand=Nissan&Car%2520Make=Nissan&Model=Leaf&rt=nc
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Charge points requirement in new build homes ? - Zero
