Having just returned from a 2 week road trip down to Austria and back just shy of 1600 miles all in my mind wandered to the perceived imminent death of the internal combustion engine particularly diesel.
Now one would think that the diesel owner has become a pariah which is driven by the EU indicating that electricity is the way forward along with the reduction in diesel engined vehicles.
Taking this Brexit thing out of the equation, the diesel market in UK would seem to be taking a hit and buyers are considering their options and trying to future proof their purchases. After all no one want to be left with a lemon on their hands.
Well I am somewhat at a loss here. In Europe diesel is 20c/Ltr cheaper at the pumps (Euro stands at 1.13 to the £ so lets call it 20p for ease per litre). So where is the encouragement to move across to petrol on the continent?? There isn't!
Further more E10 petrol (10% ethanol) is dearer than the 'full fat' version. Which would you put in your tank?
The main road links, like ours, are bristling with diesel powered lorries going about their business maintaining wealth.
Moving back to the UK. As an example I live near Hull (City of Culture 2017 in case you missed it). The city of York is 40 odd miles away. Betwixt the 2 are the Market Towns of Pocklington and Market Weighton. There is not a lot of commercial/industrial activity in those towns.
Beeching saw away the railway and although there have been feasibility studies around reinstatement it's not going to happen due to costs and the fact that sections of the old line have been subject to other development. However both of these towns have massive domestic building developments in progress which have been going on for some years.
So the commuters have 2 choices - buses (not that good a service) and the good old car. The car it is then.
So on one hand the planners are strangling cities to discourage the use of cars and on the other side they are allowing the development of areas where cars are the only viable means of transport. It really all doesn't make sense if serious attempts are being made to move forward.
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The priorities of politicians, civil servants, and planners are either votes or their pensions. The future, not their problem.
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>> Well I am somewhat at a loss here. In Europe diesel is 20c/Ltr cheaper at
>> the pumps (Euro stands at 1.13 to the £ so lets call it 20p for
>> ease per litre). So where is the encouragement to move across to petrol on the
>> continent?? There isn't!
I live in Austria, and there's certainly no panic shedding of diesels in favour of petrols, although perhaps there should be. The NOx emissions of diesels are more harmful to people and animals than CO2, and with the terrain it accumulates in the valleys. Our son did his MSc thesis on this very subject, specifically the effect of HGVs. Charging points for electric cars are common, but as in most countries, there needs to be more to cope with future growth.
>> So the commuters have 2 choices - buses (not that good a service) and the
>> good old car. The car it is then.
Public transport is good and not expensive. Most villages, however outlying, have a regular bus service - and not just the once-a-week regular service that is still found in the UK, but several times a day. There are few places that can't be reached by public transport, and the rail and bus services are well-integrated.
Where were you in Austria FC?
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In Chile diesel is about 2/3 the price of petrol.
Charging points for electric vehicles are just starting to appear. Knowing the Chileans this means that they will be everywhere in very short order, but most of them won't work.
The public transport system is very cheap. The country is covered by a bus system. They go everywhere, very cheaply, but typically are very slow. And in a country that is 2,700miles long it can be painful.
Buses are plentiful within the cities, but usually packed. The metro system is also excellent out of rush hour but completely buried at busy times. The metro is about 80p however long your trip, and the bus about 40p within a city.
Chile mostly suffers though because it has no overall plan or strategy for transport or infrastructure.
As far as I can tell there is no drive against diesel currently.
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Daughter has been studying in Munich for a year which is coming to an end so we went to collect the majority of her possessions and made a bit of a holiday out of it.
In May we flew to Stuttgart and hired a car - Lake Chiemsee (Germany) was a far as we got for the day.
This time we went to Honheims, just south of Bregenze. I have a friend who lives there and generally see if and when we visit that area. Drove over the top to Reutte, then on to Munich via
Lake Plansee.
Three years ago did a bike trip (motorised veariety) - Myerhofen, Gross Glockner, Landeck, St Anton, Bludenz and then to Honheims.
Still plenty left to have a go at :)
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Forgot to say:
Whilst on the subject of noxious emissions sitting in the valley bottoms the usual aroma signaled our welcome to Austria - The stench of slurry being spread on the fields :(.
I am informed that this is becoming an issue due to intensive cattle farming. Due to the long winter the cattle are kept indoors longer hence the accumulation of waste products.
The slurry is spread on the fields as a fertiliser, which is acceptable in reasonable quantities, but there is now so much that the ground is becoming saturated and it is leaking into the water courses.
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That's probably the farmers being a bit lazy. Austria does quite a bit of biogas production.
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Petrol and Diesel is at the nadir, its the sunset for ICE as a mass transit power source, of that there is no doubt, its just a natural technological and engineering progression, aided a by lack of natural resources, global and local politics, and health and environmental factors. Its end of life timescale is up for discussion, but end of life it is.
Which is why I am going out with a bang, my end of term party of choice was a big powerful 6 cyl turbo petrol for a last joyous thrash around of the dinosaurs.
Next car (whenever that will be) will almost certainly be a PEV or a PHEV.
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My next car will be a plug in hybrid - either a Subaru (Toyota running gear I believe) or a BMW - the 330e seems a fine car and if there's a Touring version when the new model comes along I may move to one of those.
Oddly we were talking about this on the way to the dog walk this morning. Mrs RP said that I don't need a car as quick as the 335 next...as Zero says there is something about a 6 cylinder motor - maybe more of a "something" about a petrol over diesel but still....
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>> at the nadir,
>>
>>
= "the lowest it can go"
You mean their prospects can only improve - they will bounce back as the cycle moves on?
Surely you mean they are in terminal decline, and will keep declining until they become obsolete and production ceases?
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>> The slurry is spread on the fields as a fertiliser, which is acceptable in reasonable
>> quantities, but there is now so much that the ground is becoming saturated and it
>> is leaking into the water courses.
Lol, very familiar with the smell of slurry, we back on to a field which is regularly fertilised, with many more in the close vicinity! Not sure it's a big deal though, I haven't read anything in the press about it, and we don't have any local water courses. Our area is basically cattle farming, and the main crop is grass to feed the cows. Many of them are sent up into the mountain pastures in the summer, and the safe return of them back to the valley is celebrated in many parts of Austria.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 9 Jul 18 at 01:39
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>> In May we flew to Stuttgart and hired a car - Lake Chiemsee (Germany) was
>> a far as we got for the day.
Sounds a good trip. Everyone who visits Austria should drive the Grossglockner Road. The highest point is the Edelweiss Spitze, which is designed as a bike stop, although cars are allowed. To see for tens of kilometres, and look at the road snaking down, is stunning.
>> Still plenty left to have a go at :)
>>
Too true. The mountains in our area (Salzkammergut, essentially the Austrian Lake District) to the east of Salzburg are not so high, but there are some good roads, obviously plenty of lakes, stunning scenery, and good walking. If anyone is down our way, get in touch :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 9 Jul 18 at 01:39
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I have just found out today , the New TFL , New low emissions zone , that my r3cently purchased car an 09 diesel will from next April cost me and extra £12.50 per visit into the central London congestion zone , so I believe that’s £27.00 per day , every time I have to go in there, Nice extra tax on me and my business ( which I need the vehicle for )
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I wonder if this is a good time to get bargains on nearly new diesel cars.
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>> I wonder if this is a good time to get bargains on nearly new diesel
>> cars.
>>
I've seen comments on PistonHeads from used car salesmen who say there's no fall-off in demand for used diesels and no drop in prices.
Of course, likely you get a different answer when px'ing!
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Surely if you purchased it recently you realised the vehicle would not be compliant? The is a site to check. All you need is to enter your registration number.
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It was announced last April 2017
I purchased it last February 2017 .......it’s as unfair as it would be for a person to have 8 kids , and then get told , Ok from next year there’s going to be no child benefit ! You can’t give the kids back , and I can’t afford to replace the vehicle.
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Strange analogy. I guess in these things there are winners and losers. I think I would change the car and take the hit or use public transport which I guess is the point of the legislation
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>> It was announced last April 2017
>>
>> I purchased it last February 2017 .......it’s as unfair as it would be for a
>> person to have 8 kids , and then get told , Ok from next year
>> there’s going to be no child benefit ! You can’t give the kids back ,
>> and I can’t afford to replace the vehicle.
In Feb 2017 it was common knowledge that published diesel emissions were a farce, that diesel were the worse polluter and that there would be a backlash.
I certainly knew it when was I first started thinking about a new car. Car buying is usually the most researched purchase we make, probably more than housebuying.
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Even Top Gear mag recognise change is coming.
www.topgear.com/car-reviews/hyundai/kona/150kw-premium-64kwh-5dr-auto/first-drive
"A proper tipping point BEV: genuine 300-mile (ish) range in a small SUV for under £30k. Consider it.
9/10"
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 25 Jul 18 at 15:20
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I suspected there would be a crack down on diesel a long time ago. One reason why my previous car was an Audi A3 1.4 turbo petrol... and I got that in October 2014. There had been talk of charges to drive in Manchester for diesels at some points in time.
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The Future of Diesel / Petrol - Old Navy
