Friend messaged me. He's had an NIP for speeding (61 in a 60) asking me if North Wales Police have a zero tolerance on speeding these days. I smelt a rat and asked him what kind of vehicle he was driving, turns out it was a van, therefore limited to 50 in a 60 so he was "well done" - looks as if he'll qualify for a Speed Awareness course. (+10% + 9 MPH) though. The vans we drive (Transit and Sprinter 300s) are limited to 50 in a 60 and 60 in 70 (on dual carriageways) and all other signed speed limits.
Whilst pursuing a couple of sites it jogged my memory of the Car Derived Van exception to the additional restrictions on vans. This of course meant that our old Mini Coopervan could drive at the same limits as cars, which is perfectly logical.
Given these days that there is a large diversity of small vans (sort of Ford Escort size) like the daftly named Blipper etc.. at what point does a light van become Car Derived, or have they ceased to exist ?
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I guess you mean non-car-derived.
Few 'transit' drivers seem to have a clue what their speed limit is, so I assume that it is rarely enforced in most areas.
I usually travel the A421 (dual carriageway NSL) at a true 70 if I can, and I am overtaken one after another by Transits, Sprinters and the like.
There was actually a van driver on my SAC who was daft enough to protest loudly that he had been a van driver for 15 years and had never heard of the lower limits.
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From what I understood, "car derived" excluded things like the Berlingo, where there is no equivalent car from which the van was derived, even though windowed versions were also sold as cars.
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>> From what I understood, "car derived" excluded things like the Berlingo, where there is no
>> equivalent car from which the van was derived, even though windowed versions were also sold
>> as cars.
AIUI this bit of law dates back over 50 years. Back then there were rules for vans like the Thames Trader, Bedford CF, Commer etc which by then current never mind modern standards had dodgy handling and weak brakes so lowered max speeds.
There were exemptions in those rules for vans which were effectively windowless versions of estate cars like the Bedford Beagle, Hillman Husky etc and had max laden weight under two tons/tonnes.
These days it's all got a bit muddy. The Berlingo is an interesting example. The original version and its 2003-8 facelifted successor was largely based on (derived from?) the Peugeot 306 and Citroen ZX plus some bits from the 405. As it was under two tonnes it at least arguably met the car derived van test. Was there a test case of a speeder in a Berlingo/Partner van?
There was certainly confusion over the next step up; Fiat Scudo and PSA equivalents. Although over two tonnes some were 'combinato' 7 seat cars or crewbuses.
The current Partner/Berlingo range straddles the two tonne limit dependent on model/wheelbase . They do though share floorpans etc with vehicles like the C4 Picasso/Grand Picasso and Peugeot equivalents. Does that make the sub two tonne versions car derived for speed limit purposes?
Whole thing needs looking at and revising to meet modern conditions but, as an example of the opportunity cost of Brexit, there's no Parliamentary time available.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 4 Jul 18 at 21:19
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>>
>> Whole thing needs looking at and revising to meet modern conditions but, as an example
>> of the opportunity cost of Brexit, there's no Parliamentary time available.
>>
Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t believe it would ever be a good use of Parliaments time to discuss the merits of car based vans or van based cars ;)
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>> Friend messaged me. He's had an NIP for speeding (61 in a 60) asking me
>> if North Wales Police have a zero tolerance on speeding these days. I smelt a
>> rat and asked him what kind of vehicle he was driving, turns out it was
>> a van, therefore limited to 50 in a 60 so he was "well done" -
>> looks as if he'll qualify for a Speed Awareness course. (+10% + 9 MPH) though.
Are you sure it's not 10% + 2?
Edit. My mistake.
Last edited by: Duncan on Wed 4 Jul 18 at 22:28
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Surely it's also the difference between M1(passenger vehicle) and N1(commercial vehicle) and VAT and VAT free.
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>> Surely it's also the difference between M1(passenger vehicle) and N1(commercial vehicle) and VAT and VAT
>> free.
>>
It's not so much the VAT angle as the decision of the importer/manufacturer when the vehicles were first registered. For example VW Transporter Combis (where the rear load area is half paneled like a van and half windowed with 3 extra seats) are sometimes registered M1, sometimes N1. No difference in the vehicles, but a difference in the speed limit for A roads.
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>> Surely it's also the difference between M1(passenger vehicle) and N1(commercial vehicle) and VAT and VAT
>> free.
I would think a N1 Commercial Vehicle derived from a car and with max weight under 2000kg qualifies for the higher speed limit.
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Car Derived van. - Manatee
