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Did the thread get deleted? Or am I just confused.
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I suspect it got hidden as now confirmed to involve fatalities and some sensitivity is appropriate give Pat's connections with Bretts.
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Oh, it's secret and a banned topic then?
Just because of that link? Will someone announce when it is no longer a censored ropic and discussion is permitted again?
Is it anything involving fatalities in this world or just selected ones?
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I think its probably because I mentioned broken biscuits.
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>> I think its probably because I mentioned broken biscuits.
If the truck had turned turtle for too fast on a roundabout with nothing hurt but pride that would be funny. When people are dead it is not.
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People were not dead when I made the comment. Moreover no-one on here knows the dead people in the bus, and now it turns out no-one on here knows the driver.
Just another instance of over reaction, unjustified as it happens after the fact. We all have our own consciences, we don't need yours or anyone else.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Jun 18 at 16:01
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>> People were not dead when I made the comment.
True but there were already reports of serious injuries and given nature of impact they were likely to be way beyond a broken wrist or two. Differences of opinion as to what it's justifiable to post should rightly be aired. If others think your conscience was slack on this one they can say so. ON made essentially same point on original post as I've set out above.
Now that Pat's confirmed neither she or Ian are involved then the topic can open for discussion in just same way as other newsworthy crashes.
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>>Now that Pat's confirmed neither she or Ian are involved then the topic can open for discussion
Thank you for your kind authorisation. I didn't even know you were in charge of what others can discuss.
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>> Thank you for your kind authorisation. I didn't even know you were in charge of
>> what others can discuss.
If you have regard to context you'd understand I was not back seat moderating, just expressing an opinion.
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It's called "virtue signalling" and it is both tedious and counter productive.
To ban discussion is just a ridiculous overreaction.
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>> It's called "virtue signalling" and it is both tedious and counter productive.
I fully understand virtue signalling and it's current pejorative usage.
>> To ban discussion is just a ridiculous overreaction.
Never suggested a ban, just a delay while we understood the obvious sensitivity around Brett's and it's employees.
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Pompous virtue signalling, at that.
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>> Pompous virtue signalling, at that.
Whatever
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>> Is it anything involving fatalities in this world or just selected ones?
The fact that it involved the firm to which Pat and her husband have close connections seems to me to be a reason to tread carefully, at least until we know who the casualties were. BBC now confirms both were on the bus but there is less detail on the injured.
In another forum I use we were asked not to rehash speculation about a (long ago) fatal light aircraft crash because a member's brother was amongst the dead.
One would expect such understanding in a face to face interaction and I don't see why a forum should be different.
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Thanks to the Mod who deleted the original post and to Bromp for the voice of reason he so often shows.
However, we woke up to this news today having returned from holiday late last night and neither of us is involved in any way.
Since this is national news now, there is bound to be speculation and I see no reason why this forum should be any different really. It certainly won't offend me.
Since we heard a few facts and 'informed' speculation has become apparent.
The lorry driver worked for an agency, not Brett's, so may not have been familiar with how fast the traffic goes along that road, and the blind spots to look for when waiting to come out of the gate.
It was foggy at the time, as it was here 10 miles away, when we got up.
The coach flashed a car driver coming the other way, who was indicating to turn into the yard, to allow him to do so.
BUT....there is a bad dip in the road at the end of Black Drove just before the yard gates which always appear to make vehicles with lights on flash as they go over it.
At the moment I have no more reliable information but please discuss it if you wish to and thanks again.
Pat
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Its actually a poor place to put a major transport hub/depot. The current one has grown up piecemeal with little in the way of road infrastructure upgrades around the entrance.
If you built it now, brand new, the traffic planners would insist on a major upgrade to the road around the junction.
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>> Its actually a poor place to put a major transport hub/depot. The current one has
>> grown up piecemeal with little in the way of road infrastructure upgrades around the entrance.
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>> If you built it now, brand new, the traffic planners would insist on a major
>> upgrade to the road around the junction.
Lots of places like that. Lorries exiting Heygates are a hazard round here and used to tear up the road surface as well. Latter problem eased after they widened the splay of the junction.
The fixation with safeguarding at any cost means the local comp now has security like a defence establishment (albeit minus guns). Massive traffic jam every day at drop off time and again at home time.
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>> Its actually a poor place to put a major transport hub/depot
Exactly what I thought when I saw images. An HGV will be slow pulling out with vehicles coming in both direction at 60mph.
I can only assume that most who use that section of the A47 know lorries pull out of there and therefore slow down. You'd have thought the bus driver would have been aware. No doubt more info will come out, e.g. perhaps the lorry pulled out and could quite make the turn and had to do some manoeuvring to make the turn?
Sad for all involved.
Pat, hope you had a good holiday - in another thread you mentioned some hospital visits and then went offline so to speak. Hope all is okay.
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Bretts upgraded the entrance in their remit, its now wide and rounded, but nothing major was done with respect to traffic on the main road.
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Surely an obvious change would have been reduced speed limit near the entrance/exit. Cheap solution for what was a big risk.
The lorry this morning looks like it was going to struggle the turn without reversing, manoeuvring and trying to turn again. Maybe the exit/entrance needed to be a bit better especially for agency drivers not familiar with the depot.
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Plenty of room to pull out and round, thats why Bretts widened the entrance, its very wide. The lorry looks acute like that because its been pushed sideways by the bus, into a jackknife stance. Looking at the footage, impact doesn't look high speed. But a bus is flat, with the driver sitting in its face, no crumple zone.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 26 Jun 18 at 18:46
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>> But
>> a bus is flat, with the driver sitting in its face, no crumple zone.
No crumple zone and no strength in the structure ahead of the front wheels, looking at that. Any chassis overhang has presumably gone under the trailer not into it, and the trailer beam/floor has gone right through the cab and boarding area. Horrible.
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It doesn't look like a difficult turn to me but it would be slow, the lorry starting from rest.
With fast traffic both ways, there could be a lot of looking and waiting. I wonder whether this is another case of "looking but not seeing" or of a driver mistakenly believing that he/she had been invited to pull out by an apparent or actual flash of headlights. Reduced visibility may also have been a factor.
Sometimes, sadly, it really is an accident, even if it is one that could have been avoided. Given the less than ideal arrangement of slow, heavy vehicles coming and going directly on to a fast stretch of A road, and especially when turning right, I hope the investigation spends at least some time on the other factors possibly involved and not just the drivers' actions.
Shame the roundabout to the east isn't a bit nearer, but it would still be possible to put an acceleration/joining lane in, and oblige all lorries leaving the site to turn left. I don't suppose either Brett's or the responsible highways authority will want to pay for a new roundabout at the site exit.
Thinking aloud. Probably rubbish.
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Pat mentioned the F word, fog is all it would take. If a 60mph bus saw the turning lorry within its braking distance that is all it would take for a T bone accident.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 26 Jun 18 at 19:28
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www.cambstimes.co.uk/news/a47-opens-following-collision-in-which-two-died-1-5578896
Local Press link with recovery pics.
No more info yet other than as far as we know the driver hasn't been arrested which is extremely unusual in an accident of this nature.
The other odd thing is the bus has it's hazard lights on in all the video clips we've seen, and from the pics above, they certainly haven't been turned on after the impact.
Pat
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I'm guessing he's been cautioned at least. And if its a modern bus, it may have a system that brings on the hazard lights automatically under heavy emergency braking.
I see that road is NSL, either my memory is playing tricks with me, but I'm sure that had stretches of 40mph, certainly through thorney toll.
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Yes it is 50 I think through Thorney Toll where the speed camera is and again just before Guyhirn bridge but NSL between those two points.
I didn't realise that hazards may come on with emergency braking.
Pat
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>> I didn't realise that hazards may come on with emergency braking.
They certainly do on our Berlingo.
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>> >> I didn't realise that hazards may come on with emergency braking.
>> They certainly do on our Berlingo.
I think it's been a standard requirement on new cars for while now to have some kind of warning notification for trailing vehicles. Not sure about HGVs & other large vehicles though.
My old 2006 Vectra would rapidly flash the brake lights when emergency braking.
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Thanks rtj
My DIL, who has been the daughter I never had to me for the last 25 years, was rushed into LRI on blues and twos with hear problems on the friday night and then transferred to Groby Road hospital.
After a very worrying time, she finally had an operation on the Tuesday and is now back home and doing well.
She is 47 years old and it came out of the blue, it's a sobering thought.
Pat
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Nasty incident Pat. Brett's deliver to our NHS depot in Denbigh (where I work out from) let me know if Ian is ever up there and if I'm in work I'll make him a brew.
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Very nasty RP, and I have delivered many times to NHS Denbeigh:)
They are a great crowd and always make us welcome.
Ian does get there now and again, and I will tell him thanks!
Pat
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I wonder how likely it is both vehicles had dash cams fitted?
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Looking at the images in Pat's link I was surprised why no damage to lorry.
The image in this link shows why.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/6626262/47-crash-cambridgeshire-wisbech-guyhirn-lorry-bus-latest/
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Truck v bus accident. - Bromptonaut
