Hyundai has unveiled details of the upcoming Kona EV.
If they can do the long-range variant for 30 grand I think this may be the point where EVs surge ahead.
www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-292-mile-range-76sec-0-62mph-time
Real world range should be 220-230 miles, and details still a bit patchy.
If their Ioniq EV is anything to go by the main problem will be inability to supply demand.
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I would have a plug-in hybrid right now if I had somewhere to charge it and if range tops 300 miles, happy to have a full EV, but conventional hybrid is the only option for the foreseeable future sadly.
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>>If their Ioniq EV is anything to go by the main problem will be inability to supply demand.
The main problem I had was the monthly lease cost was as high as a car costing nearly twice as much. Needless to say I didn't go for it.
They said it was because the car was 'new' for Hyundai and the lease firms were hedging their bets on potential recalls, over depreciation etc.
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>> If they can do the long-range variant for 30 grand I think this may be
>> the point where EVs surge ahead.
Given the 53 minute recharge time, its almost the crossover point. But does the charging cable really eat up over 10% of the luggage space? Limited luggage space at that
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Sorry if this has been covered before... I always wondered how EV perform in prolonged freezing temperatures with their running/charging. Usually any small rechargeable items suffer in subzero temperatures.
Does charging take longer? range shorten?
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Charging not much of an issue - as the battery warms it will accept charge quicker.
Range suffers with cold weather due to the battery not being quite as efficient, cabin heating and battery thermal management. Wet roads also reduce range a bit as there is more rolling resistance.
My car does about 100-110 miles in summer, and more like 70-75 miles at 0ºC.
Biggest market outside China and the US is Norway (due to govt incentives and huuuge amounts of cheap hydroleccy) - plenty of youtube videos of people using EVs in Norway and Canada.
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>> Sorry if this has been covered before... I always wondered how EV perform in prolonged
>> freezing temperatures with their running/charging.
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This too must have been answered before, but what about heating, and the rear windscreen?
Unless there is a separate oil-fired heater, then surely that will be a big battery drain in winter?
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>>This too must have been answered before, but what about heating
Mentioned in the post above (briefly)...
Due to the inefficiency of ICEs there is heat aplenty to use for cabin warmth.
EVs are far smaller producers of heat (from the motor/transmission, and internal resistance of the battery pack/electronics mostly) so they have supplementary heaters.
On my car it is a resistive heater - very effective but not the most efficient way to heat a car - consumes anything up to 5kW I believe.
Many other EVs have heat pump type systems that use far less power, perhaps 1-2kW drawn to maintain cabin temperature.
Most also have heated seats which are more efficient than heating the cabin (I think around 0.2kW typically).
More EVs also now have the option to heat the driver's side only to save energy when there is a single occupant.
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On mine you can (remotely) pre-condition the car while still plugged in, this puts the cabin temp on whatever setting ti was last on, plus heated front and rear windows, plus warms the battery to lessen the impact of cold on the battery. Takes about 10 minutes, and a second 10 minutes makes it really warm before you go out to the car. It's optional though.
Below a certain temperature (maybe 2 degrees, as it's happened the past couple of days) mine also will start in ICE mode and will only fall back to full leccy once the electrical gubbins is up to temperature (though even in enforced ICE mode in normal weather it will run on battery only under certain circumstances - pretty smart logic there somewhere!)
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>> On mine you can (remotely) pre-condition the car while still plugged in....
That's a brilliant idea.
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>> >> On mine you can (remotely) pre-condition the car while still plugged in....
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>> That's a brilliant idea.
Its an option on lots of ICE cars as well. I have friends in Anchorage, and every car there is sold with plug in electric preheating.
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IIRC it's an option on the CRV but costs over £1k.
The Merc can be set-up to preheat when you unlock the doors which I do from the comfort of my house 10 minutes before going out (you can lock the car again without the pre-heat turning off).
Supposedly the smartphone app lets you do this but it doesn't work reliably.
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When I was looking at the Golf GTE one of the things that put me off was the lack of certain 'electrical' options compared to a GTi, you couldn't spec the heated front window screen or the dynaudio system.
Funny because the full EV Golf does have both of these options (although the large screen display is not available), I've just looked at an option which might solve what you've mentioned - the Heat Pump at £830.
"Heat pump
Reduces the electric power usage of the heating system by recycling heat from ambient air and waste heat from the drivetrain components"
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Up to now EVs have had the most appalling residual values, the What Car tables showing both the Leaf and Zoe as being worth 17% of list price after 3 years.
In the latest issuie the Zoe is still languishing but the Leaf has risen to a heady 35%.
I would imagine that the improvement will continue, and leasing costs become better value.
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Tesla are well over 50% at 3 years (better than German premium brands)
No-one pays list price as there is a £4,500 grant, plus whatever deal was available at the time (similar to ICE vehicles)
3 year old LEAFs are 10-12 grand depending upon spec which isn't too bad considering they were probably 20-24 grand new after discount.
Cars with leased batteries are hard to shift - I expect these will disappear soon as batteries have lasted longer than manufacturers expected.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 1 Mar 18 at 11:00
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Tesla offers an 8 year, unlimited mileage "Drive Unit" warranty on their cars, which includes the batteries, and I was told in a Tesla showroom that there are a number of customers out there with 150+,000 miles on their Model S which have only lost 10-15 miles of range. I read a separate report online on a 200,000 mile car that had only lost 6%. It's impressive, but then the batteries are well cared for by the car's systems, and of course the logic built into the charging units.
I'd happily have a Model S if I could afford one. Amazing things.
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Tesla battery replacements have happened (under warranty) but generally the problem is failure of the management system/firmware.
There are charts of owners' battery degradation in cyberspace, and they seem pretty resilient to 120kW supercharging (more frequent SC associated with better overall battery performance)
electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
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For anyone looking to dip their toe in the water of EVs, the Kia Soul is still currently the best deal out there:
www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/kia-soul-ev-lease/
100 mile winter range, 120-130 summer range - much better car than many expect.
£1200 dep, £199/mth for 2 years.
New Soul due later this year or early 2019 likely to be similar to the Kona so leasing makes most sense IMO.
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Its still pretty ugly though!!
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It'll be a cold day in hell before I'd buy an electric car.
I'd rather have a diesel car than a petrol car, too.
I need an automatic these days (proper auto, not semi-auto) preferred, so other than a CVT transmission, which I do like, the choice is limited.
Anyway it's academic, as I can't afford a new, or nearly new, car.
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You'll be pleased to know that all EVs are automatic.
Single speed, smooth as silk.
Thanks for subsidising my fuel costs and road tax btw.
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Jaguar's iPace is now available to order.
5 seat medium sized SUV style.
4wd, 400bhp, 0-60 4.5s, 298 mile range (more likely 230-240 normal driving)
Base price £63k (so just under £59k with govt grant)
Looks nice enough....
buildyour.jaguar.com/jag2/r/model/_/en_gb/i-pace/3fqfm
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I'll order one then... just need to sort out how to charge it at home without a useable drive. A right pain to get into the garage.
Seriously though... I'd much prefer this than the ugly Tesla Model X. Competition at last. We'll see prices come down. In the end.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 6 Mar 18 at 01:09
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Same footprint as an Octavia.
Quite a lot smaller and a couple hundred kg lighter than Model X, but looks pretty practical - 650-odd litres of boot space and big cabin as no need for a phallic bonnet since no engine.
In 7,500 miles I still haven't charged once at home.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 6 Mar 18 at 01:39
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Pricing for the Kona EV appears as thus:
tinyurl.com/kona-evprice
£4,500 EV grant to be deducted, so the 64kWh Premium will be £29.5k - 250+ summer miles, 0-60 in 7.5s, capable of 100kW CCS charging (still to appear in the UK - 50kW is the present standard)
Main stumbling block is it is only a small crossover a tad bigger than a Juke I believe.
In a Qashqai body would be a massive hit assuming Hyundai can make enough of them and get any profit from them...
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Your link didn't work for me.
Tesla should be worried. Model 3 is too expensive and too late.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 29 Jun 18 at 23:07
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BBC are reporting complaints about the new Leaf. Range originally advertised as 235 miles but real world range only 168 miles, and if you try to charge it more than once in a day it takes ages as the warm battery takes longer to charge. The disgruntled purchasers say they were not told about this. This is the latest Leaf, from a manufacturer who supposedly had a head start on EVs over other makers. It seems there is still work to be done before they can be a realistic complete alternative to an ICE car.
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>>BBC are reporting complaints about the new Leaf
Nissan are the worst for range promises - pretty much every other manufacturer states what you should expect to get (ie Zoe 41kWh had NEDC rating of 250 miles, but Renault say you'll get about 180 in summer, and 120 in winter)
LEAF has no active battery pack cooling, using airflow to do the job (despite the van variant actually having the same running gear AND active battery cooling) - this means if you do 120 motorway miles, rapid charge, then do another 100 miles the pack is very hot and slows the charge rate greatly next time.
Virtually all other EVs have active cooling - ZOE, Hyundai/KIA blow air through the pack with fans, Tesla (and my Merc since it has mini-Tesla guts) use liquid cooled batteries which probably explains the massive mileages their packs seem to tolerate.
Nissan will have been stung badly by "RAPIDGate" so I expect next years 60kWh model will have active battery cooling.
Of course for those who don't plan more than 200-250 miles in a day the 40kWh LEAF will still suit them fine.
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Likewise didn't work for me.
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Links to www.speakev.com and I think you need to be registered to see pictures so that's likely the problem rtj70.
www.speakev.com/threads/kona-ev-prices.120657/page-3#post-2299124
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 29 Jun 18 at 23:22
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It didn't work at all - it wasn't because images did not load due to no login.
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Linked the forum this time rather than the graphic - should go straight to the post.
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I'm already a member and it isn't working for me. The embedded file seems to be missing or otherwise unavailable.
I've had trouble putting pics on that forum earlier this week but it presented differently. Moaned to the mods who fixed it.
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Ahhh works for me in Edge. I suspect I have some blocking software in Chrome which is stopping the image.
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Bjorn Nyland (Norwegian Tesla dude) has comprehensive video review of the Kona EV
youtu.be/b-3_LO3Swlc - part 1
youtu.be/923iqCTtFFU - part 2
Each video has a summary index of different bits to make it easier to see bits of interest.
Boot is rather small. Other than that it seems a decent buggy.
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>> Bjorn Nyland (Norwegian Tesla dude) has comprehensive video review of the Kona EV
>> Boot is rather small. Other than that it seems a decent buggy.
What about the price!? 34k?
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>>What about the price!? 34k?
Cheapest (190 mile range 39kWh) is just under £25k, mid-spec (300 mile/ 64kWh) is £29.5k, top spec 64kWh is just under £32k after govt grant is taken off.
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Hyundai Kona is a small crossover style car - the KIA Niro EV uses the same running gear and looks a much better family proposition.
If they can chuck this out at 31-32 grand with near 300 mile range (this one is 69% charged and suggests 340km range in Eco+ mode) I'd seriously consider chopping in the Merc...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us5fV1Oa2vo
Only interior review just now - driving etc to follow.
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Hyundai - Gamechanging EV? - Stuu
