If you have a new diesel car on the motability scheme and your DPF filter clogs up because you only drive locally and can't be cleared on a long run meaning a trip to the dealer who will foot the bill? If it is a manufacturer's problem then they will but this problem only occurs if you don't use the car properly so in a way it is your fault the DPF got clogged.
Looking at the cars available on the motability website for disabled drivers there is a large selection of diesel cars. Nowadays to meet emissions majority of diesels come with DPF (Diesel Particulate Filters) fitted. They are not suitable for those who drive locally, school runs etc because it has been reported that they clog up. They are ideal for those who at least once a week go on a motorway/long distance where the exhaust can get very hot and clear the filter.
If the filter clogs up and can't be cleared by a long drive at high revs then it is a visit to a garage ending up with a large bill. Dealers should ask you about your driving style and recommend a petrol version if the car is only used locally. Some brochure have this warning but as a small print hidden away.
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>> Dealers should ask you about your driving style and recommend a petrol version if the car is only used locally
That is no different for everyone else. They should ask (and some do).
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...Looking at the cars available on the motability website for disabled drivers there is a large selection of diesel cars...
You can have any car on Motability - it's just a finance scheme.
The list on the website is only a selection.
It gives you a good idea what sort of car your Motability allowance will finance, but there's nothing to stop you paying some cash up front to get a dearer car.
Last edited by: ifithelps on Mon 23 Aug 10 at 09:18
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Motability includes service and maintenance so they would pick up the bill, surely?
Like all big lease companies they no doubt would attempt to recover the cost from the manufacturer. Indeed they may even have agreed lifetime costs.
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Its easy enough to ask them, just go on the site and there's a place you can ask any questions...
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>> Motability includes service and maintenance so they would pick up the bill, surely?
No the dpf is excluded.
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>> No the dpf is excluded.
>>
I can see them not covering a forced regen but can't understand how they can duck out what is on some cars a defined service item. 36k fluid refill and 72k fluid & new filter.
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Its a consumeable, classed like diesel.
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How is it a consumable ? It has it's own service schedule. Consumables get replaced when necessary like brake discs and pads. Surely a maintenance contract adheres to the manufacturers service schedule ?
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On lease service contracts, lots of things are not included.
Cam belts are often excluded, change of coolant or brake fluid is always excluded (it never gets done) because they are all suplementary items
But if you want to believe its included then fine. Its included.
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It's not case of what I want to believe.
Thanks for the heads up on full service history ex-lease cars though.
When's a FSH not a FSH ?
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When it has nice sets of stamps in the book.
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The DPF is not a consumable nor is it a service item. It should not need any attention. When the oil is changed the ECU may need to be told there has been an oil change - Mazda's do at least.
At a service the DPF is not replaced and there are no liquids to top up either (unlike a FAP filter).
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My wife's FAP equipped PSA group car has a DPF sticker on the back from the factory. Is this false advertising ?
There are two different implementations but the aim is the same.
I think DPF is one of those generic terms for an exhaust filter however it is achieved.
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>> I think DPF is one of those generic terms for an exhaust filter however it is achieved.
>>
Yes, a FAP is a DPF!
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>> On lease service contracts, lots of things are not included.
>>
>> Cam belts are often excluded, change of coolant or brake fluid is always excluded (it
>> never gets done) because they are all suplementary items
>>
I had leased company cars for 20 years and, while I agree they do the bare minimum, if the schedule calls for it then it gets done.
Same on my daughter's SEAT which had a 3yr VW maintenance contract and same on my Mercedes which had 6 year Mercedes ServicePlus coverage.
The only time I came unstuck was on the SEAT we bought a 2yr/2 service package directly from the dealer for the cars 4th and 5th years. It was worth it for the 4yr (major) service on its own but the dealer wouldn't do the brake fluid unless I paid separately for it.
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>> I had leased company cars for 20 years and, while I agree they do the
>> bare minimum, if the schedule calls for it then it gets done.
I have had leased cars for 3o years, and only the basic requirementws for servixcing have been done.
They NEVER change the brake fluid or the coolant.
Look in your service book. all the items listed under the "in addtion" they never do, even at the specified mileage. Dont forget the lease compnay is out to save money.
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Surprised to see no one has been along to say that just because cars are Motability, doesn't mean that they are just poodling round town centres all day long..........
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Even the annual, optional, paint checks for Ford's are not paid for by lease companies. Meaning the body work/paint warranty is invalid if a claim is needed. Saves them about £15 per car per year.
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Again, how can the car be sold as FSH when the selling business knows full well they have not adhered to the manufacturers schedule (the DPF schedule does not come under "in addition") and deliberately invalidated the bodywork/paint warranty ?
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>> Surprised to see no one has been along to say that just because cars are
>> Motability, doesn't mean that they are just poodling round town centres all day long..........
>>
No they are all parked in our "pedestrianised" high street.
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>> >>
>> No they are all parked in our "pedestrianised" high street.
>>
See if only you had some handy clampers..;)
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>> >> >>
>> >> No they are all parked in our "pedestrianised" high street.
>> >>
>>
>> See if only you had some handy clampers..;)
>>
I missed out "legally" parked. And they get tickets if they park outside the designated times, the pedestrians are safe between noon and three pm.
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>> just because cars are
>> Motability, doesn't mean that they are just poodling round town centres all day long>>
Exactly. My father had a Motabiliy car and certainly didn't pootle anywhere. I bet his DPF was one of the cleanest around.
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>> They NEVER change the brake fluid or the coolant.
>>
Well, to be fair you wouldn't know if the bf had been changed or not, but I can assure you that I was always told it was changed and the necssary box was ticked.
Coolant is a pretty infrequent thing on most cars and not something that would need changing during a normal lease period. It's 15 years on my Merc.
>> Look in your service book. all the items listed under the "in addtion" they never do,
>> even at the specified mileage.
>>
On most ordinary cars, the only thing that will come up is bf change. I certainly had cambelts changed on company cars and on a vauxhall Cavalier was rewarded by having it snap the next day leaving me stopped in lane 3 of the M62.
On the Merc, everything except oil & filter is additional work, but that was all done as required (well, the dealership randomly did things it didn't need to and missed out others, but they never quibbled when it was pointed out).
>> Dont forget the lease compnay is out to save money.
>>
Of course. Getting they tyre change point right was the bain of my life and a significant part of the decision to opt out.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Mon 23 Aug 10 at 23:23
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>> >> Motability includes service and maintenance so they would pick up the bill, surely?
>>
>> No the dpf is excluded.
>>
How do you know this (is excluded) ?
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>> >> >> Motability includes service and maintenance so they would pick up the bill, surely?
>> >> No the dpf is excluded.
>> How do you know this (is excluded) ?
The DPF is not a service item so surely excluded? When the car is driven in the right conditions it works and regenerates. Driven frequently for only stop-start over short distances it never gets chance to regenerate. At that time it should put on a warning light the means 'drive this car at 50mph or faster at more than 2000rpm to allow regeneration to work.' Failure to then do this means it needs to be regenerated in the workshop.... eventually.
I cannot see how a Motability car is any different to any other car. If you won't benefit from a diesel car then get a petrol. If you cannot occasionally drive a car at more than 50mph with more than 2000rpm then maybe you shouldn't be driving?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 24 Aug 10 at 23:05
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>> The DPF is not a service item so surely excluded?
Speculation. Until someone confirms that Motability WILL NOT pay for DPF repairs, then this whole thread is speculation, and could worry a Motability customer if they found it via a search engine.
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>> The DPF is not a service item so surely excluded?
Motability cover service AND maintenance. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if they didn't pick up any bill (as I said earlier, they may well argue with the manufacturer about it, but that's not the customer's problem).
A bigger issue is that the dealer should have checked that a dpf equipped vehicle would be "fit for purpose" when they were taking the order.
Skoda apparently quietly changed cars that were sold for use as taxis when the DPF issue kept recurring.
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But a DPF does not need anything doing to it, let alone replacing, if the car is driven properly. i.e. it needs some high revs for a long enough period to regenerate. At a service they don't touch the DPF. In a Mazda6 they do have to tell the ECU the oil levels have changed though.
I cannot comment on what Motability pay for. So I assume they would pay for replacing brakes, brake pads, clutch etc at no cost to the customer. And I mention clutch because it shouldn't need replacing unless the car is driven incorrectly. So a similar situation if the DPF needs manual regeneration in the workshop.
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>> And I mention clutch because it shouldn't need replacing unless the car is driven
>> incorrectly. So a similar situation if the DPF needs manual regeneration in the workshop.
>>
Exactly - and there's no suggestion in the Motability blurb that the customer would have to pay for early clutch wear.
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It does state that you will pay for negligence or abuse of the car.
Early clutch wear would be classed as abuse. you will pay for it.
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>> But a DPF does not need anything doing to it, let alone replacing, if the
>> car is driven properly. i.e. it needs some high revs for a long enough period
>> to regenerate. At a service they don't touch the DPF.
OK. I'll bite. What happens to a FAP equipped DPF car when there is no cerine left to add to the diesel to lower the ignition temp in the filter ?
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The chances are that I'll be getting one with a DPF when we change next year... so I've asked them the question... I'll let you know what the reply is (up to 5 days to reply!!)...
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FAP and DPF are different. Both are diesel particulate filters but do it differently.
A FAP needs a liquid catalyst injected into the fuel to help burn off the particles on the FAP filter.
A DPF has the catalyst impregnated into the filter itself. All it needs is a high temperature to burn this. And herein lies the problem for drivers not driving the car in a manner that allows the car to reach a high enough exhaust temperature to burn off the particles automatically. The fallback method is to inject diesel into the exhaust to burn and thus raise the temperature. And this can go wrong and won't happen unless certain criteria are met. So if the DPF reaches a certain level a warning light comes on to say 'drive for a length of time at highish revs to force regeneration'. Failing to do this puts the car in limp home mode and the only option is to connect it up in the workshop to do a regeneration when connected to the computer.
EDIT: I don't think any manufacturer of cars uses FAP + Eolys fluid anymore. They are all DPFs now.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 25 Aug 10 at 22:10
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Which is the point I made higher up the thread. A FAP equipped car is still badger as DPF. How is a layman going to know what is fitted. They see a DPF badge and from what you say assume it's maintenance free which it is not.
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I don't think they make FAP cars anymore (I think it was mainly PSA group) so for a new Motability car it won't be a problem.
If you do buy a FAP car it will say in the manual and when it runs out of Eolys a light comes on to tell you. Although it might not have run out because it counts how many times the fuel flap is opened.
Edit: Don't some Mercedes have an additive though.... hmmm.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 25 Aug 10 at 22:23
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and Fords, Volvos...anyone care to add to the list?
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Ford has not used a FAP and I don't think Volvo either. They use DPFs which do not require the Eolys liquid. And now PSA have stopped using FAPs too.
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>> They see a DPF badge and from what you say assume it's maintenance free which it is not.
What car has a DPF badge?
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Our C4 Grand Picasso 1.6HDi has one around the rear wiper says mit Diesel Partikel Filter. I would post a foto (sic) but the car is in the UK at present.
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My Mazda doesn't. My previous Mondeo was Euro IV and had to diesel filter. It just burned the fuel more effectively to avoid particles. Progress eh.
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>> My Mazda doesn't.
How is the oil level? rising faster than the floodwaters?
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It's about an 0.75 inches above full thanks. And it was serviced about 2 months ago and I've done lots of driving since then... trip to the NE, trip to York, etc. etc. Thankfully it's not my car.
The lease company again won't want to change the oil when it gets a bit higher. And then I ask them to take responsibility for a ruined engine if it happens and they relent. But this time the oil level has gone up a fair bit in a short space of time. It's being monitored.
Makes me want to top it up with diesel and then get it sent back a year early due to excessive oil changes. How would they know ??? It gets an MOT soon.
But it's a nice comfortable car though and I get money back each month for having it due to it being below my car grade. For the same now I could have a Passat CC 2.0 diesel.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 25 Aug 10 at 22:38
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Back to the OP!
I spoke to Motability and they said that DPFs were covered by them, and their cleaning if required... But what they did say was that if the car kept needing it on a regular basis (I think they had one that was needing it every week!) they would be discussing the suitability (or lack of it) of the car for the person's regaular use... So if someone had a Motability car which was used for regular short journeys they would suggest that they consider petrol power rather than diesel...
Hope that clarifies things!
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Thanks for finding it out for me. The person i spoke to at the beginning had no clue.
Last edited by: wazza on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 00:33
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It took two phone calls from them, though the lady involved was very helpful!
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Motability cars and DPF filters? - rtj70
