Reading the other recent thread on parking fines reminded me of a recent incident.
We were visiting the UK earlier this year from our permanent home in Austria. We went to Guildford for the afternoon and (pre)paid £3.90 for three hours parking - we would have paid for four, but we only had £4 in change on us, the machine didn't give change nor did it take cards. In the event, we didn't get back to the car until 30 minutes after expiry of the ticket - unfortunately we were were ticketed 10 minutes before we got back. However, as we have an Austrian-registered car it was pretty pointless giving us a ticket as I have no intention of paying it, a bit like the one we got in Cheddar 2 years ago after we were 15 minutes late back after paying for 90 minutes. No intention to defraud, simply that we don't often have large amounts of change on us, and it's not always easy to second-guess how long you need.
I have a number of issues with the way the charging works in this car park in particular, because I think it's designed to fleece the motorist:
- you have to decide in advance how long you want to park for, and most people would probably overpay;
- the machines don't give change, so the displayed price is the minimum you have to pay, and the prices are probably deliberately set at odd amounts e.g.£3.90;
- they don't take cards, which is a pain, because it relies on having acceptable loose change.
I really wish all car parks were pay on exit, and in this case I would have paid the full amount. Should I have a guilty conscience over this? Would you pay the fine?
Last edited by: Mike H on Wed 17 Jan 18 at 16:50
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Yes, and No, but I would have returned in time to buy another ticket having obtained some change.
If you had a British registered car would you have been more diligent?
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Wed 17 Jan 18 at 17:18
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>> If you had a British registered car would you have been more diligent?
>>
Possibly, but having to return to the car when we were nearly ready to leave to put an extra hour on would have been a pain. I'd probably have risked it!
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As in the other thread if you understand the terms of the contract you are entering into and you choose to ignore it them you should accept the consequences. Would I pay? I don't know but can honestly say that in 50 years of motoring I have only ever had one parking fine and that is because the the regulations were changed and I didn't read the notice. I paid the fine.
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I *think* that in 45 years of driving I've only ever had one parking ticket, apart from the two mentioned in my original post, and that was paid as it was a clear breach - actually not me, SWMBO was in a rush to get our son to the hairdresser's 30 minutes before the end of the payable period, and she simply forgot to pay in a car park that we used regularly and knew the rules.
One could argue that I needn't have bought a ticket at all in the circumstances, although I always set out to be honest and pay what's due. It was just unfortunate that on these two occasions they were pre-paid car parks, and we just didn't make it back in time, As I said, I'm guessing that the way the way this car park is run, they're doing pretty well in making money that isn't rightfully theirs, so I'm not losing any sleep over the extra £1.30 I should have paid.
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You can't trust these foreigners can you !!
In order to "save money" the Dartford Crossing toll is now by tag and has no pay booths. I understand that many, many European drivers use that route and not all pay.
The crossing authorities say they have robust systems in place to chase them abroad, but I wonder if they bother. I wonder too if any money is actually saved by the new scheme either.
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Guilty? No. Its balanced up by the speeding fines and parking fines I rack up in Europe and don't pay.
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>> Guilty? No. Its balanced up by the speeding fines and parking fines I rack up
>> in Europe and don't pay.
>>
:-)
In contrast, Germany and Austria have cross-charging systems in place so I have to be careful there. I understand that Austrians get fined in Germany for parking in areas where parking discs showing the time of arrival are needed, and correctly displayed, but the parking discs used are not standard German ones.
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I've only used the crossing once in my Austrian car and I paid my dues. As I have mentioned, I have no intention to defraud anyone (and I appreciate that you are not accusing me of this). However, when I used the crossing, I prepaid and found the website not easy to use - and it's only in English. In most European countries, such a website would be in various languages, and this is potentially a trap for foreign drivers trying to pay. If they don't, I understand from a previous post that they'll ultimately be chased and face a heavy fine.
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The other problem with the Dartford Crossing for foreign drivers is simply that, if the traffic is moving (it wasn't when we crossed), it's not easy to read the signs and memorise a web address for paying the crossing fee, if indeed you even notice that it's payable. I remember thinking how badly thought out the whole thing was, particularly for foreigners.
I had a similar problem some years ago with the congestion charge- I knew it was due, but the whole payment thing was so complicated that I couldn't work out how to actually pay it, so I had to call a work colleague in London, and in the end she paid for me and I reimbursed her. It may have changed now.
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" (and I appreciate that you are not accusing me of this) "
Mike H, thank you for confirming that you read my post in the light it was intended and for confirming your understanding that I wasn't accusing you of any misdeed.
Sometimes my attempts at humour can go awry and I've been known to cause upset.
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It's all very well taking the risk of getting a parking fine when abroad but I was unlucky enough to get towed away in Germany last year, and recovering it from the pound (or maybe they call it the Mark :-) ) was something like 180 Euros IIRC. I was also warned to expect a parking ticket back here for another £80 or so, but nothing turned up,.
It means I would not usually park illegally anywhere now, certainly not in a non-English speaking country as it was quite hard work dealing with it!! (I didn't realise I had parked illegally there, due to language difficulties)
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 17 Jan 18 at 23:21
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Our local "mall" (ha, ha!) has just gone over to pay on exit.
An ANPR camera clocks your car's number on entry.
The exit pay-station has touch screen machines, where you enter your number plate: it's a clever machine, as once you start inputting it'll show up all cars with the first two or three corresponding letters, or digits, and you can highlight yours without having to complete the inputting.
Once highlighted, it flags up the charge and asks you how you are paying - cash or card. Choosing card it then gives you the option of inserting the card ,or using contactless, including Android Pay or Apple Pay.
I used it today and paid my £0.60, for up to an hour, using my phone. Receipts are offered.
Easy-peasy and worry free.
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And does it remind on which floor you’ve parked it, and which section , now that wou,d be clever for those who can’t take note of their surroundings when they park up
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There's one of the airports does that, Heathrow I think!
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Last week we flew over to Dublin but I had totally miscalculated my journey time from home to Edinburgh airport. Parked the car in the pre booked car park, sprinted to the waiting bus and basically had a sprint the whole way to the departure gate.
Anyway, on way back it dawned on me that I did not have a clue where I had parked the car. I was too rushed to even take a mental note. Then I remembered I keep getting a notification on my phone every time I park my car - checked the Apple Maps (not Google which I normally use on the phone) and sure enough there was my car parked up in the exact spot in the car park.
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I don't know about feeling guilty, but what I do know as a bit of an international traveller is that these damn things last forever and can rose up and bite you in the future.
Best paid and forgotten IME.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Jan 18 at 00:19
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>>>Best paid and forgotten IME.
Agreed even in a UK car in UK situation.
On hols in a very popular Devon location for two weeks last summer we happily paid around £4 (or more if two locations) a day to park near to the places we wanted to be... Activities/food etc.
The £50+ spent on parking over two weeks was nothing in comparison to the total accommodation, travel. eating out and activities cost yet we came across folks going to the most enormous trouble and risk re fines to avoid paying fully.
Similar in Cambridge... depending on arrival time it can cost £8-£11 to park up for an evening gig. Adds less than £3 per person to the overall cost so nothing in the scheme of things to have the benefit of the car a minute's walk away from the venue.
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>>On hols in a very popular Devon location for two weeks last summer we happily paid around £4 (or more if two locations) a day to park near to the places we wanted to be... Activities/food etc.<<
We do the same in Looe. £38.50 for a weekly ticket but well worth it for the convenience and we look upon it as part of the holiday cost.
Pat
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Yep we'll do the same in Cornwall this summer, the cheapest long term ticket is a month but it's £37 for the period compared to £84+ at daily rates... and it's valid at all car parks in the village.
For the first time ever we've risked a property with no parking so will need the nearby car park full time (by chance across the road from where Dog gets his gnashers serviced) so we'll get good value from the month ticket.
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I don't disagree with anything that's been said, and clearly paying a single charge for a whole day is quite different from making a decision on how long I might, or might not, need in the car park.
However, as it stands, no-one has made any comment on what is, IMHO, a poorly designed system. I would more than likely have paid for 4 hours rather than 3 if a pay-by-card option had been available, and I'd have joined the merry band of those overpaying.
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I must admit it's very rare now that I park anywhere that doesn't take cards so that's a fair point if Guilford don't. Re estimating the time needed I guess as it's been the norm for pay and display over decades I'm used to it.
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>> However, as it stands, no-one has made any comment on what is, IMHO, a poorly
>> designed >>
I agree re the system, many seem to designed to maximise revenue.
it can happen that the charge is, say, 80p an hour and you only have pound coins so you put in £3 to pay for three hours, though the machine does not give change: And then you get a ticket if you are a few minutes late back despite having effectively paid for an extra 45 minutes.
Last edited by: Hard Cheese on Thu 18 Jan 18 at 09:45
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The charges for parking in this country are distorted by the way local government is funded.
With rate increases effectively controlled by government parking charges are one of the few independent methods have of raising extra funds, This is the main reason such charges have soared over the past five years.
One of the side effects of this policy is that private parking companies have reaped something of a bonanza as they increase their rates to match council charges
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 18 Jan 18 at 10:05
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>> it can happen that the charge is, say, 80p an hour and you only have
>> pound coins so you put in £3 to pay for three hours, though the machine
>> does not give change: And then you get a ticket if you are a few
>> minutes late back despite having effectively paid for an extra 45 minutes.
One wonders if they are, in effect, committing fraud
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>> However, as it stands, no-one has made any comment on what is, IMHO, a poorly
>> designed system. I would more than likely have paid for 4 hours rather than 3
>> if a pay-by-card option had been available, and I'd have joined the merry band of
>> those overpaying.
As a "Guildford is more or less next door so there quite a bit" person, it depends on where you parked in Guildford. The larger carparks have entry and exit barriers with card friendly pay machines. A lot of the others appear to have what are coin operated ticket machines, but they are interspersed with card machines. Often the the coin machine may be your nearest, but the one further away is card.
Of course the failing is they don't tell you that.
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Cambridge avoid all that malarkey by not taking coins or cards in many car parks now. Use an app, mate. No choice, go away if you can't/won't.
Oh, and there's a "convenience fee" added every time you do, so we might SAY it's 70p for 20 minutes on the SIGN but it's ACTUALLY 80p thanks.
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>>>Cambridge avoid all that malarkey by not taking coins or cards in many car parks now. Use an app, mate. No choice, go away if you can't/won't.
I've not noticed that yet at the two car parks we use but I often send an assistant to do the admin so perhaps they're using an app. I'm the coin man and carry £30-£40 in mixed change all the time in a lidded cubby in my car so never short of change.... put anything other than coppers in there every time I get some change so it's always full... unless Mrs F borrows the car and remembers the hoard when I might notice some depletion.
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Lepale Road. Guildford is somewhere we also regularly visited when we lived in the UK, it was SWMBO's shopping centre of choice. We lived about 20 miles south, just north of Petersfield, and our son went to school at the RGS for 7 years.
We did in fact try to seek out a machine with a card option but there wasn't one in the vicinity, you may know whether there are any. There was an option of paying by phone (text message IIRC), but we were warned by a local while we were debating what to do that there was an additional hefty additional charge incurred by that - and obviously, there was no warning on the machine about that either. So in the end we just put what we had in our pockets in the machine. If we'd gone for the whole day we'd probably have used the P&R.
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Not the crime of the century Mike.I wouldn't worry about it worse things happen at sea.
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>> Not the crime of the century Mike>>
Hmm, I don't know, perhaps we should dob him in ;-)
>>I wouldn't worry about it worse things happen at sea.
>>
Not parking violations they don't ...
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>>Hmm, I don't know, perhaps we should dob him in ;-)
But we need some kind of process, like on a firing squad where only a couple have live bullets, so that nobody is sure who actually did it.
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....a bit like the frownies, then........ ;-)
I think it's high time we got out of the EU, as it is patently obvious that them over there have no respect at all for our rules and regulations......
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>> I think it's high time we got out of the EU, as it is patently
>> obvious that them over there have no respect at all for our rules and regulations......
>>
LOL, to be fair, in general we behave in the UK exactly as we would anywhere, observing the relevant speed limits, parking restrictions etc.
Motoring in Austria is an eye-opener after the UK. Free car parks at shopping centres, mainly good roads with little traffic, well-maintained motorways with sensible speed limits etc. But surprisingly well policed, with frequent static speed cameras (large grey boxes),, random checks (I was breathalysed, and my documents checked, on a small local road at 3.15pm just before Christmas), regular mobile speed cameras etc.
One tip for anyone visiting Austria on holiday this summer. You must have your driving licence with at all times when driving. If you are caught in a random check without it, you won't be allowed to proceed. If that means leaving your car and going back to your hotel by bus or taxi to collect it, then so be it. If you have a passenger, and they have their licence, they would be allowed to take over.
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>> >>Hmm, I don't know, perhaps we should dob him in ;-)
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>> But we need some kind of process, like on a firing squad where only a
>> couple have live bullets, so that nobody is sure who actually did it.
>>
I initially thought that capital punishment for infringing a £3.90 parking fee is perhaps a little harsh, and then I realised what you meant ...
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A *little* harsh, perhaps.
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>> A *little* harsh, perhaps.
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25 years maybe?
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...25 years standing by the parking machine handing out the correct change, maybe?
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Guildford central parking and one way system is a nightmare....but it has two park and ride car parks which I use regularly. It costs SWMBO and I only £1 each as OAP 's which we pay on the bus (every 15 minutes)which takes about 10 minutes to get to the town centre..problem solved.
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When we lived in West Byfleet and visited Guildford we would park in the High St carpark, from Woking you head into the centre of Guildford to the top of the hill with the cobbled High St on you right and the statue of George Abbot in front of you, here you turn left and it's a couple of hundred yards along on the left.
I once came across my much loved old RD250 parked in there about 15 years after I sold it, looking very sorry for itself, wish I had kept it, worth a few quid now.
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"I once came across my much loved old RD250"
A small astromech droid? Yeah I've got a few.
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>> "I once came across my much loved old RD250"
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>> A small astromech droid? Yeah I've got a few.
>>
A twin cyl two stroke astromech droid, it was pretty nippy, warp factor 7 IIRC ...
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Mine was the RD350B. As quick as the Honda 750 four. Bought brand spank in 1975. Wish I still had that too.
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>> When we lived in West Byfleet and visited Guildford we would park in the High
>> St carpark, from Woking you head into the centre of Guildford to the top of
>> the hill with the cobbled High St on you right and the statue of George
>> Abbot in front of you, here you turn left and it's a couple of hundred
>> yards along on the left.
>>
If only popping in for a little while I use the half hour meters on the High Street, sometimes use Friary Centre. Not keen on Leapale Road because of the layout and size of spaces but usually fine to park. Haven't really had a problem parking.
Where in West Byfleet did you live, if you don't mind divulging?
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>> Guildford central parking and one way system is a nightmare....but it has two park and
>> ride car parks which I use regularly. It costs SWMBO and I only £1 each
>> as OAP 's which we pay on the bus (every 15 minutes)which takes about 10
>> minutes to get to the town centre..problem solved.
>>
Glurk.
The P&R a mile down the road from us costs us £13 return to get to town. For a while, we drove to another P&R nearer to town instead. That only costs us £6 return. Both also cost £1 to £2 parking on top of course.
We now usually drive to the one nearest to town and walk the three miles each way instead. Does us good, no doubt. Still have to pay the parking though.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 18 Jan 18 at 22:05
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>> >> Guildford central parking and one way system is a nightmare...
Not the Guildford I know and remember. And I am there about once a week, and have done since 1999. Never resorted to the park and ride.
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Parking fines - should I feel guilty? - Pat
