www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/01/03/oregons-freak-out-over-pumping-your-own-gas-shows-why-many-dumb-regulations-still-exist/#7105755d600e
A few days old now but still interesting.
I particularly like the way this just goes to show that state intervention, in this case a law prohibiting pumping your own gas, can adversely affect behaviour in the long term.
(There are people now in Oregon who don’t know how to pump gas and don’t want to either. )
In the same way I’m not a socialist, not because I don’t believe in helping the disadvantaged and poor in society but because over time it has a caustic effect on individual responsibilities within society.
(I know, that got deep fast, but you like this kind of thing here :-))
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Link didn't work for me.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/01/03/i-dont-even-know-how-some-oregonians-panic-about-new-self-service-gas-law/?utm_term=.2587a9a11798
I read about this other day, but forgot to put it here. Other rural states seem to manage fine without this. I suppose they've had it for so long they can't think of anything else.
I know some places still have attended pumps, we've got one just down the road. Although not many places here or in the US have them still. I'm sure they'll manage just fine. :-)
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As the article says it’s simply to do with money. The older stations with equipment requiring attendants will lose out to new self service operations.
Can’t really stop “progress†but it is sad in a way that all those jobs like petrol pump attendants, car park attendants, shop assistants, bus conductors etc. Have or will disappear. Everthing becomes more efficient but society is the worse for it.
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It wasn't till I read the article that I realised what on earth this thread was about.
"Pumping your own gas" in this country is something that really keen LPG users do, using a transfer pump to refil a gas bottle or a car's LPG tank from bulk-purchased LPG in a large domestic tank.
Nor have we "pumped our own petrol" since the days when pumps had handles on the side. They have been electric for probably a century.
It's always an eye-opener to find how primitive Americans are in many ways. I expect their ATM machines still have a handle for winding the card into the slot, or they have to work the pump handle in the kitchen to get running water.
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>It's always an eye-opener to find how primitive Americans are in many ways
I'm guessing you haven't been there much.
The hindrance within the US is always cooperation and openness across States. This has been what hindered their banking and telecommunication systems to name just two. The number of States, distances involved and different timezone have made it worse.
But its not a technology issue.
As for petrol stations, it is very unusual to find a self-service here. I can only think of one. They are almost always manned by pump attendants. There are those wireless, handheld credit card machines at every pump as well.
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You'd be surprised how bad, patchy, and expensive, their internet service is.
It also has areas where the depth of poverty would shock you as a UK resident.
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For 6 years I was a US resident. Well, longer than that actually, I just wasn't there.
The problem with their internet, though less so these days, is exactly what I said - they do not cooperate between States and companies. And their regulator is no better.
And the regulator is the reason that the internet service in the UK is so consistent.
What it is not, is a technology problem.
And whilst I agree with the implication that the UK does not have a poverty problem, whatever the Daily Mail thinks, the US's homeless & poverty problems pale into insignificance compared to South America.
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Page 2 of the article
www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2018/01/03/oregons-freak-out-over-pumping-your-own-gas-shows-why-many-dumb-regulations-still-exist/2/#
lists even dafter examples.
I worked on my own as the sole attendant of a newly opened petrol station (it was really car sales pitch with a workshop, petrol as a sideline) for the summer when I was 18. I'd nearly forgotten, but that wasn't self service either, I used to put all the fuel in.
There's a local Shell station here that offers 'attended service' on week day afternoons.
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I guess even the pay at the till model is doomed. “Pay at the pump†facilities are rapidly becoming more common and will no doubt become the norm.
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But you can't buy papers, crisps or Yorkie bars at the pump. Retailers probably make a nice profit from impulse buys by people waiting to pay inside.
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Well, I need a scrolling attendant. Someone who scrolls down the website for me as I read. Cos that's either an abysmal website, shank internet or I just can't do it properly. Flicking up and down then freezing then jumping down two paragraphs then back to the top then right to the bottom while I'm trying to read it. Gave up.
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>>But you can't buy papers, crisps or Yorkie bars at the pump. Retailers probably make a nice profit from impulse buys by people waiting to pay inside.
Bit of a thread drift but I am surprised at the willingness of supermarkets to do home deliveries. When I worked briefly for Sainsburys , their home delivery service was a loss maker and it went against the whole principle of supermarket retailing ie get the punters in and use visual merchandising, promotions, displays to get them to buy more than they need. Retailers also make lots of money from suppliers based on where the products are located on the shelves etc.
Now some of this can be replicated online with "suggestions" of things to buy etc but would be interested to know if there was an option for them all to withdraw from it then whether they would!
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I don't know about recent times, but at one stage home delivery was significantly reducing their food wastage,
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>> I guess even the pay at the till model is doomed. “Pay at the pumpâ€
>> facilities are rapidly becoming more common and will no doubt become the norm.
They will, are available, but margins on petrol are small, they need to get people in the shop to buy the high margin and impulse buy stuff.
edit Sorry didnt read cliffs post. Hes right
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 7 Jan 18 at 14:57
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Wife's cousin runs two petrol stations and he says he makes all his money from the shop. If it was petrol-only he'd starve.
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What I take from this thread is that it is ok to post Long links so the mods can never give us rows again!! 😂
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The other day when it was -5 and my heated seat hadn't had time to warm up I would have gladly paid to have someone fuel my car for me!
In a minimum wage economy it doesn't make sense though as say £10 per hour in real terms for each pump at my local filling station that would be a £60 per hour overhead!
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My local Shell station as just had a complete refit - VPower now available at all of the pumps - but they've removed the pay-at-pump option (wasn't there an issue with fraud recently?).
Should bring back to option of set £ values being dispensed with a push of a button.
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>> Should bring back to option of set £ values being dispensed with a push of
>> a button.
One thing I'd love to see is an option to stop at the next pound. It would end this £X.95, nudge 97, nudge 98, nudge 99, nudge £X.01 that happens every other damn time.
And they don't say "Forget the penny" anymore while you ferret round in your pocket pretending to look for one, you have to hand over a note and end up with loads of shrapnel in change.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 7 Jan 18 at 19:49
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Isn’t the answer just to use a Dr/Cr card?
My local petrol station has a jar of pennies on the counter with an offer to take one if you are paying with cash and you have missed the round pound.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 7 Jan 18 at 17:31
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>> One thing I'd love to see is an option to stop at the next pound.
Newer pumps at my Tesco do just that. Or limit to how many litres. It does both.
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Should bring back to option of set £ values being dispensed with a push of
>> a button.
I'm pretty sure they have it on some, it's called fast fuel. Its been a while but I'm sure asda still have it. The asda petrol station near me is unmanned completely, no little shop or booth.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 7 Jan 18 at 18:28
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>> Should bring back to option of set £ values being dispensed with a push of
>> >> a button.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure they have it on some, it's called fast fuel.
I'm sure I remember that old-fashioned pumps did this years ago. The single attendant set the gallons or pounds and left it filling while going off to do something else.
If you were a trusted regular you could take the nozzle out and go in and leave the money.
If you weren't you weren't allowed to touch anything
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I think Shell are focussing on payment via their App. Probably the future.
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I don't think shells are bothered by the "how" as long as there is no hinderance to the "more"
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>> I think Shell are focussing on payment via their App. Probably the future.
>>
Would that involve an official statement on the use of mobiles on forecourts?
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>> Would that involve an official statement on the use of mobiles on forecourts?
I think you'll find you have to use it in the shop at the till, rather than at the pump itself.
Besides, it was never a case of actually using a mobile on a forecourt, but the potential of dropping it which could cause a spark if the battery fell out.
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What is the point of a mobile APP for payment which has to be used at the till? That's like having a station car park payment app which you have to use at the ticket office
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>> I think you'll find you have to use it in the shop at the till,
>> rather than at the pump itself.
The idea is you use it in your car so you don't need to go into the shop.
www.shell.co.uk/motorist/shell-fuels/fill-up-and-go.html
I use the Shell app to keep track of the points, but have never used the payment bit. Now I have a phone that supports Android Pay, I might give it a go. I presume it offers management of VAT receipts in the same way as RingGo and other similar services, as I do need to submit those to my employer on a monthly basis.
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>>
>> >> I think you'll find you have to use it in the shop at the
>> till,
>> >> rather than at the pump itself.
>>
>> The idea is you use it in your car so you don't need to go
>> into the shop.
>>
So instead of waiting for a pump behind people who are doing their weekly shop in the shop part, you are waiting behind people who are sat at the pump using their mobile phones to pay :-)
Or do they have some recognition of paying by the app within a set time preventing drive-off being assumed?
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>>Besides, it was never a case of actually using a mobile on a forecourt, but the potential of dropping it which could cause a spark if the battery fell out.
in my Safeway days we had a video whereby someone standing next to the pump, with phone in pocket, and they received a call which ignited the fumes around them.
Of course, could have been made up the same as using a mobile phone can interfere with hospital and aeroplane eqpt.
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I use the shell app for filling up and it’s connected to my paypal account. You just set the maximum spend in the app.
But it does indeed mean using it on the forecourt to scan the QR code and then to complete the payment when finished.
It will stop the pump at the nice max amount if you set if you are able to use that amount.
The other nice thing is that you get a receipt emailed to you.
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>> they need to get people in the shop to buy the high margin and impulse buy stuff.
I wonder if the margin on fuel is higher here, because the shops are much less prevalent. I must find out.
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Feeling pumped - sooty123
