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Naturally, I have this system on my Golf MK7 and always make a point of turning it off after having started the engine as I detest its continual use in stop start traffic jams. However, lately and with the small mileages I do (<100ml/week), it is not functioning most of the time now as battery voltage is detected as requiring continuous input when stationary, with the higher demands on it at this time of the year. The symbol of an A with a line diagonally through it, means disabled for the time being. Once or twice I have travelled about 15 miles to a destination without it functioning only to find that on the return journey a couple of hours later, it works again.
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The system on my M135i will sometime disable itself in the same way with a symbol as you describe appearing in the dash. Likewise my old 123d would do the same IIRC. It's down to ambient temp, engine temp, battery voltage and climate control settings as I understand.
I tend to turn the stop/start off just before I start the engine.
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The V90 works like you said HC but we leave ours on and love it!
Pat
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I had problems with the system on the X1. It wouldn't work. Not much of a problem but decided that as it was under warranty to get it fixed. Local dealer couldn't fix it, raised it with the factory, turns out it was a faulty radio....yes a faulty radio. New radio fitted no problem
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Stop/start works fine on my car...
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There can be a whole host of reasons why stop start does not work, my KIA Ceed listed about fifteen parameters that had to be met for it to function. I can't remember them all but they included ambient temperature, coolant temp, rear window off, aircon demand, battery charge level, and more that I can't remember. The Jazz stop start sometimes does not work, it has separate symbols for low battery, engine not hot, and not working for some other reason. I would not worry about it, the system will (should) protect the battery as a priority. It will start working when the ambient temperatures come up a bit
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 10:13
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Yes, it's ironic in that I hate the system and always disable it except for perhaps when on a much longer journey and yet when it doesn't work, one worries a bit but hey, that's just me.
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I usually turn mine off, it is only fitted to get the test figures down for the manufacturers. It makes no difference to my fuel consumption. A new on off switch will be a cheaper fix than a starter motor designed to survive the warranty period. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 10:28
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>> I usually turn mine off, it is only fitted to get the test figures down
>> for the manufacturers.
A bit like the small capacity petrol turbos fitted by nearly every manufacturer now. Complex, unreliable, uneconomical:)
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>> The system on my M135i will sometime disable itself in the same way with a
>> symbol as you describe appearing in the dash. Likewise my old 123d would do the
>> same IIRC. It's down to ambient temp, engine temp, battery voltage and climate control settings
>> as I understand.
>>
>> I tend to turn the stop/start off just before I start the engine.
The BMW system uses a whole host of parameters to determine whether the Stop/Start works, including:
Vehicle speed (coasting)
Brake vacuum reading (manual transmission)
Brake pedal pressure (automatic transmission)
Road surface gradient
Steering angle
Steering wheel movement after coming to a stop
Whether the car has exceeded the speed threshold (approx 5 mph) since the last engine switch off
Throttle pedal input
Engine temperature
Outside temperature (stop start deactivated below 3°C and above 35°C when air-con is on)
Selected Climate control temperature vs cabin temperature
Whether the ABS system was triggered when coming to a stop
The car may also restart outside the standard restart procedure if:
The driver is moving the steering wheel
The driver presses the throttle pedal
The transmission was shifted from D to P and subsequently back to D
The transmission is shifted to N or R
The battery voltage drops below pre-determined threshold
Outside temperature rises above 35°C and the air conditioning is on
Fogging of the windshield is detected by the IKHA system
Low evaporator temperature is detected
Pretty sophisticated system. Works well on the M140i apart from the speed sensor calibration not being quite right. When slowing gently to a stop, the engine will cut momentarily before the car comes to a stop, causing a slight jerk in the last half a second of stopping. Otherwise it's pretty good, and quite unobtrusive. The engine starts and stops perfectly smoothly, unlike the 320d models I had, where the engine would start and stop with quite a jolt through the cabin. On the automatic diesel, the system was very poor, as the engine took longer to start than the time it took my foot to come off the foot brake and onto the accelerator. You'd be on the throttle to go, and the starter would still be cranking. Then you'd have a second or so of delay before the engine's systems sorted themselves out and you could have any power. Very irritating.
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That sounds much like the Jazz, I can't check the book, Mrs ON is off overdosing on coffee with the local sewing mafia. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 10:33
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My car has an info message when stop-start stops the engine or can't stop the engine.
On VW group cars, you can permanently disable stop-start using VCDS to tell the car the parameter for the battery voltage should be higher. Criteria therefore never met and the car won't stop the engine.
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>> My car has an info message when stop-start stops the engine or can't stop the
>> engine.
On the BMW you get the Stop Start symbol appear on the instrument panel display (a little 'A' with a clockwise arrow round it) when Stop Start is has stopped the engine. If it would normally have stopped the engine, but can't for whatever reason, or if the Stop Start has been disabled with the button, the same symbol appears but with a diagonal line through it.
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>> On the BMW you get the Stop Start symbol appear on the instrument panel display
>> (a little 'A' with a clockwise arrow round it) when Stop Start is has stopped
>> the engine. If it would normally have stopped the engine, but can't for whatever reason,
>> or if the Stop Start has been disabled with the button, the same symbol appears
>> but with a diagonal line through it.
>>
Plus a little orange light by the stop/start off button.
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>>
>> Plus a little orange light by the stop/start off button.
>>
The button and light are perfectly obscured by the steering wheel rim in my chosen driving position :)
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The VW group cars I've had including this one do the same DP. But on the infotainment screen it has an info alert at the top against the stop-start message. Click on the (i) button and it tells you why it didn't stop the engine.... You can turn the alerts off if you want but I've left them on for now.
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>> The VW group cars I've had including this one do the same DP. But on
>> the infotainment screen it has an info alert at the top against the stop-start message.
>> Click on the (i) button and it tells you why it didn't stop the engine....
>> You can turn the alerts off if you want but I've left them on for
>> now.
>>
Yes, I know. Mine currently says something like 'Power consumption too high.'
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Hate start stop with vengence. Its useless on every car I have tried.
The G31 ("2017my BMW 540i x drive touring" for Bobby) has it, and it too is crap. It cuts out just as I am coming to a stop, and because I feather the brakes off it starts the engine again with a little lurch. I have to be quite unsophisticated with my braking and come to a defined (bounce up and down on the front suspesnsion) stop.
It is disabled when its cold, disabled when electrical power gets low, and disabled in Sports and Sports plus mode. Its a waste of time*
*or so i thought, I was shocked to discover that despite all the times it is turned off or disabled, in 2k miles it has saved 17 minutes of idling.
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>>or so i thought, I was shocked to discover that despite all the times it is turned off or disabled, in 2k miles it has saved 17 minutes of idling.<<
Exactly!
Stop even thinking about it, turn the radio up and stop listening to it, turn the notifications off and just let it do it's own thing.
Pat
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17 minutes of idling equates to about 500ml of petrol.
Enough to drive 5 miles.
Not bad from 2k of driving.....
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>> 17 minutes of idling equates to about 500ml of petrol.
>>
>> Enough to drive 5 miles.
>>
>> Not bad from 2k of driving.....
>>
Depend where you live, drive, and traffic density.
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>> Stop even thinking about it, turn the radio up and stop listening to it,
Unlike the Volvo, you cant hear the engine when its on. ;P
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Best stop start system I've used is on a transit van hired in Turkey. It worked faultlessly, I was never caught out by it nor did I ever think that it was worth switching off. Did all sorts of driving, towns with lots of cut and thrust driving from the locals, drove across country and a bit of mway as well. Perfect throughout.
However if you did want to turn it off it was simple to do so. Just a switch on the dash
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Would that be the Volvo or your failing hearing due to old age when you test drove it?
Pat
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>> Would that be the Volvo or your failing hearing due to old age when you
>> test drove it?
>>
>> Pat
>
They would be due to the Volvo being a diesel 4cyl clattery ole bag of nails, and the sweet in line 6 cyl smooth as a babies ass BMW petrol engine.
Seriously, at idle the only way you know the BMW engine is on is by looking at the rev counter. No noise, none, and no vibration, not a teeny weeny tremour.
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When I test drove the Passat GTE you could not tell on the motorway if the engine (petrol) was running or the electric motor. The engine was silent... or rather quieter than the noise of tyres.* It was the same for the Audi A3 and the same for the Skoda Superb.
It's not until you drive a petrol car again you realise how unrefined and noisy even the best diesel was.
* Put it in GTE mode and it was far from silent in the car.... it used the stereo to make an engine noise that was never a petrol turbo petrol. Who's that aimed at? I wonder if you can disable it?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 19:07
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Well, I rest my case, it's a well known fact that sensory perception deteriorates with age.
Pat
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EDIT: Sorry Pat had not replied to me. My hearing is fine at 47 years old. Not too many diesels driven :-)
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 19:42
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In my current car you have to switch it off every time you restart the car so I don't bother.
As it's a DCT auto I quite like the fact that it switches off as it probably saves wear on the clutches. (someone here is bound to correct me!)
I do wonder if it causes any accidents though? I came to a dead stop at a busy roundabout recently and instantly saw a gap that wasn't visible until the line due to shrubbery. I thought I could fit in the gap but of course the engine was off and took a fraction of a second too long to re-start.
Re switch gear. One annoying feature in several cars with electronic handbrakes is auto hold.
Each of the cars that I have had that feature implement it differently. Several (including the current motor) require the feature to be turned on every time the car re-starts or each time the electric parking brake is used.
The worst was the Vauxhall though as it was automatic and only came on when stopped on a positive incline. However, it was inconsistent, sometimes activating on a particular incline and sometimes not - so effectively it was worse than useless as you never knew if it was going to work or not!
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>> I do wonder if it causes any accidents though? I came to a dead stop
>> at a busy roundabout recently and instantly saw a gap that wasn't visible until the
>> line due to shrubbery. I thought I could fit in the gap but of course
>> the engine was off and took a fraction of a second too long to re-start.
If a fraction of a second makes the difference of getting into a gap or not how does some other driver making a split second poor decision figure in your driving skills? The safe driver is the predictable one, surprising other drivers is never a good idea.
Silly old duffer lecture over! :-)
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I've seen some atrocious driving the last week.... drivers pulling out in front of me to turn left/right (me approaching them). They will assume you have to slow down (you do). Do that on a driving test and you'd fail.
As for auto-hold, there are a few varieties I think. Some just give some hold on hills to get going and some are meant to hold on the brakes for as long as you want.
Manoeuvring with auto hold (especially a DCT/DSG) can be a pain unless you disable it. And then if you like it re-enable it later.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 19:44
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Mentioning Auto Hold and deviating from my original posting, I find that facility on my manual gearbox Golf MK7, an absolute godsend, all the time that it works properly of course.
Gone are the days of keep on having to pull up a handbrake in conditions where that would be applicable.
Now I can just come to a halt, whether it be on the flat or on a slope or steep incline and the car just stays there until I release the clutch. I had qualms about this system and the Electric hand brake for many years but eventually took the proverbial Bull by the horns and bought the car with these systems. I can't imagine driving a car now without at least Auto Hold of some type.
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Unlike start stop, the auto hold on the G31 is fantastically implemented. Come to a stop, a complete stop, and keep your foot on the brake for 3/4 of a second and the auto hold comes on with a classy little "click" confirmation sound and a reassuring green light*. Pulling away is smooth and hassle free.
*Mr BMW, at that point I would be happy if the engine stopped.
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Similar on the B class - come to halt on slope and press the brake firmly and it holds the brakes with a little HOLD symbol on the dash.
As soon as you press the accelerator the brakes disconnect and off you go.
Unlike the electric handbrake it feels like it holds the front brakes this way.
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>> Unlike start stop, the auto hold on the G31 is fantastically implemented. Come to a
>> stop, a complete stop, and keep your foot on the brake for 3/4 of a
>> second and the auto hold comes on with a classy little "click" confirmation sound and
>> a reassuring green light*. Pulling away is smooth and hassle free.
>>
>> *Mr BMW, at that point I would be happy if the engine stopped.
>>
I reckon that on the M135i the stop/start activates fractionally after the car stops, I would have thought it can be calibrated so perhaps ask the dealer.
I guess the 5er is the same in that the rev counter has a "ready" position between "0" and the normal idle speed that shows that the engine is ready to restart and it's so smooth on idle that it's sometimes difficult to tell whether it is running or not so sometimes, naturally, when you see the needle above idle you assume it is running when it's not. It will always restart in an instant though so no problem.
Despite which I prefer to disable it and to choose when to switch off, the control freak in me I guess.
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Volkswagen - Start/Stop system not Start-Stopping! - Hard Cheese
