|
I wonder if you store your keys in a metal box it would stop them?
|
>> I wonder if you store your keys in a metal box it would stop them?
Yes.
|
Its not "another" low life trick, or a variation on a theme, its exactly the same "relay" theft that every keyless entry car is susceptible to, and the reason I didn't specify the feature on my new car.
And yes, a metal box (any faraday cage type device) does defeat the relay theft, you can get shielded car key cases. Which of course defeats the advantages of keyless opening!
|
|
Keyless entry does pose quite a risk for what I see as very little benefit. Surprised that anyone would want it especially on a high value car.
|
>> Keyless entry does pose quite a risk for what I see as very little benefit.
>> Surprised that anyone would want it especially on a high value car.
>>
Even worse for motorbikes. Quite apart from the theft risk there's the nuisance value which can occur of you inadvertently drop your keys before riding off, or leave them on a garage shelf, then arrive at your destination, switch the engine off and have no means of re-starting.
|
>> Keyless entry does pose quite a risk for what I see as very little benefit.
>> Surprised that anyone would want it especially on a high value car.
It was touted as being very secure when introduced, so things have changed.
Didn't the early ones just open the car when the key was in proximity? My Outlander has a button on the door that has to be pressed to unlock/lock when transponder is in pocket. At least I can check it's locked.
The MX-5 has keyless start but requires a button press on the transponder to open it. Easy to break in I suppose.
As it happens I keep my keys in a metal box, but I don't feel either is especially vulnerable. The scum seem to go for Range Rovers and high performance German stuff.
But perhaps it's better to have them using the signal amplifier than breaking in for the keys? And if the transponder is in a tin box, they will try somewhere else rather than change their M.O.
|
|
What's the range? Is it just people who leave their keys on the hallway table that are at risk?
|
>> But perhaps it's better to have them using the signal amplifier than breaking in for the keys?
But if they fail to steal a car without breaking in there is no crime. The worry is they can try lots of places in an evening to steal cars... Much safer for the crooks than breaking in and getting done for it.
>> What's the range? Is it just people who leave their keys on the hallway table that are at risk?
Good question... the range for the keyless entry on the two cars I've had as demos was quite short. So they must be extending this quite some way. It was sensitive enough to not let a door be opened/unlocked if you were stood at the boot.
|
>> But if they fail to steal a car without breaking in there is no crime.
Yes there is. Going equipped, conspiracy to steal, criminal trespass,
>> The worry is they can try lots of places in an evening to steal cars...
Its a two man job, needs to be planned, and you need to be targeted.
|
>> >> But if they fail to steal a car without breaking in there is no crime.
>> Yes there is. Going equipped, conspiracy to steal, criminal trespass,
Catching them would be the thing so going equipped and conspiracy to steal might hard to prove. And that assumes they were caught.
Criminal trespass - they probably don't need to be on your property.
|
>> Catching them would be the thing so going equipped and conspiracy to steal might hard
>> to prove. And that assumes they were caught.
Stop their car with the kit in it.
|
>> What's the range? Is it just people who leave their keys on the hallway table
>> that are at risk?
It was just keys left near the front door, but now kit is available that can talk to keys 30 to 40 yards away, through walls.
The problem is handsfree unlocking only, in that unlocking the car also disables one stage of the immobiliser, and then with the relay transponder in the car (and matey still by the house door in touch with the key) keyless starting is available. Once running the car is useable without a key till the next time its stopped.
Its a two man theft, and needs to be planned. Its not opportunistic.
|
|
Pick the right street and you could get a few cars in one night.
|
"It was just keys left near the front door, but now kit is available that can talk to keys 30 to 40 yards away, through walls."
As my key can unlock the car if activated at the back of the house (i.e. through about four walls) I assume it can be detected easily from the front door. However, I suppose we're talking about two different things - the pulse when the key is activated, and the "background" signal emitted by the key 24/7.
I keep my key in a steel cashbox two walls away from the front door.
|
|
FP do you have keyless for your car.... my standard non-keyless key fobs have quite a range. And I can flash flights and sound the horn if I can't find it from my phone.
|
"FP do you have keyless for your car..."
Yes - it's a Mazda CX-5. I can't do anything with it with my phone, though, unless I'm missing something.
|
>> "FP do you have keyless for your car..."
I don't get the need for keyless at all.
To keep my key ring sensibly sized I only have a 'valet' key for the Berlingo rather than a bulkier 'plip'. I actually need to insert it in door to unlock.
It's not a massive inconvenience even if I have to put shopping down to free up a hand.
|
>> Its not "another" low life trick, or a variation on a theme, its exactly the
>> same "relay" theft that every keyless entry car is susceptible to, and the reason I
>> didn't specify the feature on my new car.
>>
Has it ever occured to you that not everyone has your omnipotent knowledge and that there might just be some people who are not aware of this method of car theft?
|
The article makes out this is a new form of theft but it's been used for a while now. It is also a reason why I did not want to add this option to my new car and one reason I ruled out the top of the range model which had it as standard.
So I'm in agreement in Zero on this.
|
Has it occurred to you that you commented on exactly the same type of theft not that long ago on here, yet still claimed this was "another" trick, and a "variation"
If I am omnipotent, by comparison you must be im..........
(and its been reported in the daily mail and the express, so every eejit in he country must know about it)
Oh and sky, covering every eejit outlet they can it seems
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 26 Nov 17 at 17:09
|
Also discovered that BMW has blocked another well known car hack, the ODB key coding one. This was if you could gain entry to the car, it was possible to code a new fake key to the car via a laptop and a ODB adaptor.
I found out that if I leave my ODB reader in the port and close the doors, it sets off the alarm.
|
To be pedantic, it's OBD.
I agree totally, keyless entry has very little benefit, it's keyless start that provides 95% of the keyless advantages whereas keyless entry brings 95% of the keyless vulnerabilities.
|
It was a typo, the only food that keeps pedants alive
(commerdriver will know where the inbuilt finger impulses come from to create ODB)
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 26 Nov 17 at 19:57
|
To be pedantic it was three typos ...
;-)
|
>> To be pedantic it was three typos ...
>>
He knows that, obviously.
|
>> >> To be pedantic it was three typos ...
>> >>
>>
>> He knows that, obviously.
>>
You know, I know that he knows hence the ;-)
|
>> You know, I know that he knows hence the ;-)
Something missing there, Mr Cheese?
;)
|
|
The old pedant game is not what it was, you just can't get good ones these days.
|
|
It hasn't been quite the same since good old L'escargot left us!
|
I remember him from many years ago, what happened to him?
|
|
Last I remember of L'es , he was having a new ISP and then nothing since. He seemed to be elderly, perhaps he succumbed?
|
>>I remember him from many years ago, what happened to him?
Gorn back into his shell most likely.
(*_*)
|
>> I remember him from many years ago, what happened to him?
>>
Last post over four years ago. Maybe bit the pellet?
|
|
As far as I can remember he lived in a bungalow in rural Lincolnshire, had bought a new Focus and did not like folk Reiterating.
|
|
"reiterating"? Am I being dense?
|
|
Thats something we don't need to reiterate.
|
|
Oh, let's not go around that one again.
|
What I don't understand (probably because I'm not geeky enough) is how the thieves deal with the car after they've stolen it.
They got into it and started it and then drove it away. Now they're totally out of range of the key and the car won't start again once they switch it off.
Presumably they have to get into the car's computer and do something - but isn't this protected in some way?
|
I don't know, but there must be a way. Otherwise what would happen if all the keys were lost by the legitimate owner?
As for computers, it is scarily easy to get into absolutely any computer in the world if you have unrestricted physical access to the hardware.
|
There is the OBD port and a BMW diagnostic port. Bit of electronic hardware needs to be rewritten and new keys programmed.
That gets done abroad, if the car goes straight into a shipping container.
|
Can anyone elaborate please?
On our Mitsubishi even if you open the car keyless, you still have to have the key inside the car to drive off. So how does this scam device do it?
|
Do you have to have the key inside to drive or just to start it?
Because the idea of this approach is that they have a receiver close to the key and a transmitter close to the car to open it, and then in the car to start it.
|
I think, in fact I'm almost sure, we have to have the key in the car to start the V90 too.
Pat
|
You need the key in the car to start it, but once started the worse it can say is "oi where is the key" but it carries on running. This is a safety feature to prevent car cutting out in the event of losing key contact, The receiver of course is in the car pretending to be the key.
Note however, when nicking the Merc, the key unlock antenna is near the back. In the beemer its in the rear window,
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 27 Nov 17 at 15:59
|
Now you've made me think Mark.
Had to do some tests:
a) open car wireless, get in, drop keys outside car, press start.
Get message saying "insert key in slot to start car". Pick up keys, get back in and message goes away.
b) as per a) but start car, then drop keys outside car.
Car drives off without them but get warning that keys are missing.
But as you say, it does drive off just fine.
|
If you watch the video you can see Scroat #1 go and stand by the house with the receiver.
Scroat #2, with the receiver, opens the car.
Scroat #1 runs away too quickly, and has to return to the house while Scroat #2 starts the car. Once the car is started then contact with the actual key seems to be no longer needed.
Aside from anything else kind of suggesting that Scroat #1 at least is new to this activity.
|
Variation on a theme. - Videodoctor
