Motoring Discussion > Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: henry k	Replies: 41

New Fri 25 Aug 17 00:34   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - henry k

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41038220 Small convoys of partially driverless lorries will be tried out on major British roads by the end of next year, the government has announced. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 08:08   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

Wlll they be programmed to drive side by side for 5 miles to make it a real world test? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 08:19   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Cliff Pope

It seems to me one fundamental question needs to be answered - will they react independently to signs and the actions of other drivers, or will they in effect be one very long vehicle? Once a manoeuvre has been started by the lead lorry, are the others committed to following it, regardless of changing circumstances, or can they act independently? If the rear lorry became separated, say by a car cutting in or a tyre blowing out, will the others carry on, or stop? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 08:49   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - bathtub tom

I expect Pat will have something to contribute to this. When she calms down. ;>) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 08:54   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Duncan

>> I expect Pat will have something to contribute to this. >> >> When she calms down. ;>) >> When will that happen? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 09:24   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - sherlock47

Just wait for the first incident - plod will close the motorway for 5 days to carry out software forensic tests! Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 12:48   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - movilogo

Do they know about railway? :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 13:55   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Pat

I don't know enough about how this is going to work yet to have an opinion, but then neither does anyone else but according to the media there are plenty of opinions out there! I think it's right that the trials go ahead because for all we know now, it could be an answer to the congestion problems. There will have to be many changes to accommodate them if it is the case, but who am I to stand in the way of progress. In other words I expect the trials to prove it is neither financially viable or indeed a safe option. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 14:27   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Hard Cheese

It seems that during the tests the following lorries will be programmed in respect of maintain distance from the one in front though will be steered by a driver who, presumably, can take control at any time. Though ultimately they will be autonomous driverless vehicles programmed to follow a lead vehicle though how they will react if someone walks or cycles between them, and how they will cope with pulling out of junctions and allowing a large enough gap for the whole "train" to pull out together, they could be there for hours at some junctions and roundabouts ... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 14:49   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - CGNorwich

I would assume they will be close enough together to avoid other vehicles cutting in. Suspect their use is likely to be confined to motorways with the lorries proceeding individually to their final destination from the end of the motorway. On the face of it seems like a good idea. Worth a trial. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 14:54   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Pat

I think they will be restricted to motorways CG and as you say, proceed normally to the final destination. Certainly worth a trial but I'm struggling to see the benefit at the moment. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 15:14   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - bathtub tom

>>I would assume they will be close enough together to avoid other vehicles cutting in. I hope not, imagine coming down a slip road to meet a train of three forty tonners on the inside lane. >>Certainly worth a trial but I'm struggling to see the benefit at the moment. Reckoned to be a possible 10% fuel saving, as the following trucks will be in the slipstream of the one in front. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 16:00   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - CGNorwich

Plus 2 drivers wages for the motorway part of the journey Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 16:12   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

The question of course arises of "drivers hours" while they are "minding" the semi autonomous driving truck, are they working or not? or resting? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 16:15   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Pat

That will be classed as 'other work' as opposed to 'driving' I would imagine and is payable so there is no saving there. To be unpaid you have to be able to 'freely dispose of your time' as in sleeping in the cab overnight (free to book into a hotel or visit Aunty Mary in Pontefract!) if you wish. I suspect we'll see some changes in the laws though if the trials are successful. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 16:29   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Hard Cheese

>> That will be classed as 'other work' as opposed to 'driving' I would imagine and >> is payable so there is no saving there. >> That's only for the test stage, presumably to meet the current laws. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 16:41   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Robin O'Reliant

The trials are presumably one of the first steps to test the viability of fully driverless vehicle eventually replacing human control, so the initial savings in fuel and wages are not particularly relevant. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 16:59   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - sherlock47

You can start to imagine a network of national re-distribution centres sited close to motorways, with fully automated warehouses reloading the 'local' distribution vehicles. Starting with the automation of the 'trunk ' routes, with later adoption of local autonomous deliveries as the technology becomes more widespread. Looks a little like metal tracks, marshalling yards, local sidings into factories, and 3 wheeler local deliveries. Sounds familar? The only unknown will be when aerial drones get adopted into the model. But maybe only for high values small bulk items? Presumably the big saving comes when vehicle trains become shared for 'return' journeys - no restrictive driving hours . Last edited by: sherlock47 on Fri 25 Aug 17 at 17:02 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 17:18   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - CGNorwich

As I understand it the aim is to prove that platoons of vehicles with just a lead driver is viable. Of course in the test stage all vehicles will be manned. Potentially a huge reduction in costs if viable. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 17:51   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

>> As I understand it the aim is to prove that platoons of vehicles with just >> a lead driver is viable. >> Potentially a huge reduction in costs if viable. Ok here is your problem number 1. Your depot is off a roundabout above the motorway exit. How do you get 8 lorries into a gap from lane 2 into lane 1 to exit the motorway. How does anyone else get into lane 1 to leave at that exit when its blocked by an 8 lorry train? How do you get 8 lorries connected in a stream into a gap in the traffic on the roundabout? You disconnect them of course. but you only have 1 driver........... Last edited by: Zero on Fri 25 Aug 17 at 17:53 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:11   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - CGNorwich

I rather envisage areas accessed by slip roads near the end of major motorways. Lorry platoons would start and terminate from these areas Eight trucks seems rather high. Platoons of just three vehicle would give substantial savings. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:20   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Pat

I see it working the same way as you CG but I'm struggling to see where the potential savings are coming from. Drivers wages are not all that great (£9-£12 per hour average), fuel saved would be minimal and the only other saving would be that they are not restricted to 10 hours driving per day and could work 24/365 per year. However there would still be the need to pay staff at either end to load/unload or a driver to drive onward to delivery points. I'm not saying it won't happen, I refuse to become like a lot of lorry drivers who all seem to think any progress is a bad thing and it was all better 'in the old days', but the hazards outweigh the benefits for me at the moment. Commercial Motor which was delivered yesterday has an article on it this week but Ian took it to work with him today, so I'll try and get a read of that at the weekend. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:28   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - zippy

>> I'm struggling to see where the potential savings are coming from. If they wanted real savings they would use the railway significantly more then they currently do. One train can pull thousand tonnes. Unfortunately marshalling yards have been sold off for re-development. We have multi-storey car parks, houses, flats, health centres and colleges on our local ones. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:33   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

>> If they wanted real savings they would use the railway significantly more then they currently >> do. >> >> One train can pull thousand tonnes. Unfortunately marshalling yards have been sold off for re-development. >> We have multi-storey car parks, houses, flats, health centres and colleges on our local ones. As you say, there are no railway spurs or yards near to where the lorries need to go. It costs a fortune, huge amounts of money to put them in. Therefore there are no savings. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:22   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - zippy

>>As you say, there are no railway spurs or yards near to where the lorries need to go. It costs a fortune, huge amounts of money to put them in. Therefore there are no savings. It wouldn't have cost a fortune if it was done properly, we hadn't cut hundreds of just out of town stations which would now be in the middle of industrial estates. Tracks would have been there, yards would have been there and engines would have been there. Shortsightedness considering they must have had an inkling that population would grow. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:38   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

>> Shortsightedness considering they must have had an inkling that population would grow. There wouldn't have been a railway, at all, in any shape or form if Beeching hadn't pruned it severely. The Uk is simply too small, too crowded, too diverse to make extensive use of rail freight either practical or economical. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:34   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Pat

I agree with that Zippy, I used to load off the rail head as we called it when I first started driving and it went on for days! I seem to think this is all about meeting carbon emission standards and transport's carbon footprint more than the financial savings. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:34   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

>> I rather envisage areas accessed by slip roads near the end of major motorways. Lorry >> platoons would start and terminate from these areas And these areas exist where? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:40   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - CGNorwich

They will.be building the first one near you soon. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:40   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

>> They will.be building the first one near you soon. they started, but there were so many jams on the M25 they gave up, couldn't get the lorries into the construction site. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 18:48   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Manatee

Could be some fun to be had jamming the wifi. No doubt they have something similar to cruise radar as a back up. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:22   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - rtj70

I've not read the article(s) but if this relies on WiFi then what vehicle is providing a hot spot/access point? I can't see this being WiFi. And if it was, e.g. lead vehicle... then: (1) what about the one at the back, (2) vehicles need to know the WiFi password/passphrase. I don't see it happening any time soon. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:24   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - zippy

Just imagine, rather than being squashed by one lorry you could be squashed by three lorries blindly following one another! Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:35   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - R.P.

Is he dead ? He is now :-( Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 19:39   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Zero

missed him, missed him, got him Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 20:00   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Manatee

I use the term loosely. Wireless communication. Transmitters and receivers at both ends of each lorry? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 21:33   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Hard Cheese

They'll be autonomous, GPS controlled though programmed to follow one another with proximity sensors. The trial is a conventional vehicle with those following mainting speed and distance eith a driver on board fir lega reasons. Ultimately they will surely all be driverless, a train staring off together snd various unitd or multiples thereof peeling off on route to head to their respective destinations .... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 21:43   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - tyrednemotional

....I hope their connection is better than yours..... :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 22:01   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Hard Cheese

Hasty posting from the phone .... 📱 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 22:09   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - tyrednemotional

....yeah....it's difficult with one hand on the wheel........... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 22:25   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Hard Cheese

Yeah an not spillin me cider cos it puts out me fag ... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 25 Aug 17 21:48   Self-driving' lorries to be tested on UK roads - Manatee

The wireless bit was given in the story. I'm sure they will have radar, lidar, the works - it will need a hell of a lot of redundancy to be presented as "risk free". Reply to this message | Report message