Someone hit my car a fortnight ago and today I got It back from the VW repairers looking great with new front wing, headlight assembly, front bumper apron, three new tyres and new N/S alloy wheels and a few hidden things.
Anyway got the car home and then put various belongings back In the car and then turned on the infotainment system and pressed the Nav button and then I noticed the little red solid triangle was not at my location at my house but was, ironically about 2 miles away where the accident had taken place.
However as soon as I start the car and move it down the driveway the red solid triangle snaps into place where I now am.
The car is going back to VW dealers on Monday to see why this is.
Any thoughts?
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>> Any thoughts?
PTSD, can't get the shock out of its memory.
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>> PTSD, can't get the shock out of its memory.
>>
...Post Traffic-accident Satnav Dysfunction............?
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After my tomtom is updated, which is effectively a system reset the satnav location is at my "home" location (a main road junction half a mile away) until the satnav gets a satellite lock. Has the accident location been set in a memory and is registering as the cars location until satellite lock is achieved?
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Missed the edit,
You might resolve the problem with a system reset.
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The car might not have had the ignition on for a bit and the stored Almanac data would have been out of date. Without recent Almanac data getting a GPS fix takes longer. It has to work out where you are. So it probably remembered the last location, i.e. the accident, and took time to update.
Your smartphone will use the data connection to download the assisted GPS data to get faster fixes. The Golf won't have a data connection for AGPS. The more recent ones probably do.
My first Bluetooth GPS receiver would take ages to get a lock if it hadn't been used in a while. Sometimes it would struggle if you set off. More modern GPS receivers process many more channels, including using reflected GPS signals. And there's GLONASS that it might use - my phone uses GLONASS too.
That's my theory anyway.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 28 Jul 17 at 22:55
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If my satnav has a hard reset (new map) it thinks it is in the middle of London and can take about 15 minutes to find its location.
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Oldgit's car probably got put on a low loader and dropped at the body shop. Battery discounted for the work, etc.
Fixed, put on a low loader and brought to him. Sat nav took a few minutes to locate itself. Remember all a GPS receiver gets from the satellites is the Almanac data and then the time from the GPS satellites in view. It's the time difference from receiving the data that lets the GPS chipset calculate a location. Up to data Almanac data helps a lot.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 28 Jul 17 at 23:09
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You're all so helpful but I'm lost with the technicalities tbh. It did go on a low loader for overnight storage then next day to the dealers. I collected car today from them. Id do a reset if could do so on the Satnav rather than the whole infotainment system. This model does not give you selective resets as some do. Its strange how it corrects itself as soon as car moves a few metres.
I got the impression that the battery wasn't disconnected by the dealers as too much resetting would ensue.
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>> ts strange how it corrects itself as soon as car moves a few metres.
So this keeps doing it? If so not normal at something very odd happening. The GPS chipset would sort itself if working.
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Just a thought, maybe the accident site has somehow been set as a POI in the satnav which it keeps referencing on start-up?
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>> Just a thought, maybe the accident site has somehow been set as a POI in
>> the satnav which it keeps referencing on start-up?
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Hmmm that's interesting. Could try deleting POIs though I haven't saved any myself.
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>> Hmmm that's interesting. Could try deleting POIs though I haven't saved any myself.
The inertia sensors could have done it, for numerous practical purposes, like automatic call for assistance.
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>> >> Hmmm that's interesting. Could try deleting POIs though I haven't saved any myself.
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>> The inertia sensors could have done it, for numerous practical purposes, like automatic call for assistance.
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My Golf 7 doesn't have that feature does it? Any POIs I have are those provided ie, Petrol stations, Restaurants and a third category that has escaped my mind.
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Might be there as an extra option, one you didn't pay for so not fully activated.
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>> Might be there as an extra option, one you didn't pay for so not fully
>> activated.
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Options, in menu system, are greyed out for POIs that are not owner added.
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Well the inevitable happened. I visited the dealers today, a 26 mile round trip and when I got there the satnav was showing exactly where we should be. The Service manager put in one or two local routes and it behaved impeccably. I then headed home having put in my home address and my exact location was found. After this trip it behaving perfectly normally now but I check once again tomorrow just for sure.
Thanks for all your interest.
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>> However as soon as I start the car and move it down the driveway the
>> red solid triangle snaps into place where I now am.
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Guessing a bit here but it could get itself into a tizzy if it's off-road especially if its gyro (used when there's no sat link) data doesn't match the satellite data. We had a TomTom that would get in a strop if it turned on after being moved while off (which can't be an usual thing to do).
Interesting you used the word "snap" as sat nav does "snap to" the road if you're close to it - otherwise the pointer would be all over the place as GPS isn't accurate enough to keep you as exactly on the road as the pointer indicates.
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>> Interesting you used the word "snap" as sat nav does "snap to" the road if
>> you're close to it - otherwise the pointer would be all over the place as
>> GPS isn't accurate enough to keep you as exactly on the road as the pointer
>> indicates.
I think gyros are long gone in car sat nav world. With the removal of jitter, the addition of mobile phone type accelerometers, the increase of geostationary satellites from various nations and sensitive receiver chips, GPS systems are light years away from where they were just 5 years ago. Systems with a data link dont even need almanac data, using ephemeris data to predict where satellites will be up to 30 days in advance.
Programming has changed as well as a result of this fast fix time and increased location accuracy. "Snap to" a programmed location (like a road vector) is also a thing of the past, with systems now using your precise location (to about 3 meters) and course prediction.
In summary, I think I am trying to say, your Golf Sat Nav is displaying pretty primitive behaviour and indicates its not of the latest design.
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Last edited by: Zero on Tue 1 Aug 17 at 08:28
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>> >> Interesting you used the word "snap" as sat nav does "snap to" the road
>> In summary, I think I am trying to say, your Golf Sat Nav is displaying
>> pretty primitive behaviour and indicates its not of the latest design.
>> >>
Wow! You'd better let VW/Audi know. All the satnav both portable and fixed all lead you up the garden path if you input familiar routes, where a lot of the initial mileage takes one through the most absurd routing, often through narrow country lanes etc.
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>> Wow! You'd better let VW/Audi know. All the satnav both portable and fixed all lead
>> you up the garden path if you input familiar routes, where a lot of the
>> initial mileage takes one through the most absurd routing, often through narrow country lanes etc.
I think your experience may be a little behind the times. I can power up my phone based GPS from the middle of a dog show field, where it will correctly show me, I ask for a route, where it will provide me with a choice of three, the fastest based on road conditions and speeds and tell me what direction to drive to get to the road to start the journey.
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In car sat navs have always been a bit behind the leading edge in my experience Z, you may well find that the one in your shiny new, high spec 540i will be a little behind the best.
As part of the car they do not get the focus to make them the best and most up to date possible and I doubt that they are refreshed, apart from possibly the mapping data, during the life of a model.
Still worth having as they are a lot more convenient than separate sat nav systems with cables dangling and the need to remove them any time you park the car, as well as being properly integrated with audio systems.
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But why are they still so dam expensive?. VW charge £650 for satnav. A very good fully featured Garmin can be had for £200.
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>> But why are they still so dam expensive?. VW charge £650 for satnav.
Because they can and people pay it.
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>> But why are they still so dam expensive?. VW charge £650 for satnav. A very
>> good fully featured Garmin can be had for £200.
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Because they are integrated into the AV systems within the car, the control stalks and the car's computer and because this is all attractive to business users, also usually they are offered as part of a package.
And because people will pay for it willingly as part of the new car price.
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>> And because people will pay for it willingly as part of the new car price.
Ironically as we move to more autonomous vehicles, a sat nav chip is a vital part of the basic system to enable such functions. In short people are paying for it anyway, so why not jazz it up and charge them more for it.
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>> 540i will be a little behind the best.
Have no doubts about that, and accordingly the least sought after feature from my point of view. Google maps on my great battery life Moto G4, connected to the car by Bluetooth, is very nearly as well integrated as the OEM one and streets ahead in its abilities as a sat nav.
I find most of the in built car ones are (1) in the wrong place, (2) have poor user input ergonomics, (3) unattractive and unintuitive map displays, (4)and inflexible in use.
The BMW one has sorted 1, with the location of the screen, 2 is fixed by very good voice input, 3 is dire, and 4 half resolved.
Still haven't ordered the BMW yet, still waiting for the finances to roll in.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 1 Aug 17 at 09:14
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>> I find most of the in built car ones are (1) in the wrong place,
>> (2) have poor user input ergonomics, (3) unattractive and unintuitive map displays, (4)and inflexible in
>> use.
Add out of date maps and limited traffic information.
It's not elegant but I have taken to using Google maps on the phone, on an air vent mount. I have all the UK map downloaded to the SD card so data usage is low.
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>> I find most of the in built car ones are (1) in the wrong place,
>> (2) have poor user input ergonomics, (3) unattractive and unintuitive map displays, (4)and
>> inflexible in use.
Despite the fact that I would not pay extra in a car specifically for a bit in sat nav, they are OK for most circumstances, to answer the specifics
(1) in the wrong place - most are in the centre of the car easily visible to, and adjustable by, front seat passenger on the move. Also my current Golf on e has a small slave display optional in the instrument cluster, easily followed without taking eyes off the road.
(2) have poor user input ergonomics - simple to put post code in on mine, all you need in 99% of cases. Previous BMW one would only take first half of post code then needed you to select street - not good.
3 and 4 true but the screen in the Golf one is a bigger/better quality and resolution display than you will get on any phone or portable satnav
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But is it worth £650?
I declined the SatNav option in my Golf on the basis of
1 Price
2 Requirement for some sort of portable Satnav in addition as I often hire holiday rentals.
£650 is an extraordinary price bearing in mind that the screen etc is there anyway for the entertainment system.
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>> But is it worth £650?
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It was standard on the GTD model I would not have taken it as an option
Probably not worth it but I guess that optional extras and their prices are one of the main profit streams for car manufacturers.
The one I really have a problem with on many new cars is the paint. Have you looked at what colours you c an get without paying extra on a new car recently? Gey few.
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The one I really have a problem with on many new cars is the paint. Have you looked at what colours you c an get without paying extra on a new car recently? Gey few.
So what is wrong with poverty spec paint? I can always find my yellow Panda in a carpark - and the white C3P looks good in that color. Not going to pay £500 for the sake of color. My dark metallic Berlingo shows up all minor scratches from overhanging verdage.
And if the worst happens most bodyshops can match non metallic paint!
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>> So what is wrong with poverty spec paint?
BMW only offer Black or White.
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>> BMW only offer Black or White.
Some manufacturers now charge extra for white. And then there's the more expensive premium white. The Superb has a choice of three whites (candy white, moon white and laser white) - useful for taxis ;-)
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>> >> So what is wrong with poverty spec paint?
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>> BMW only offer Black or White.
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Black for a BMW with blacked out windows always looks good, in a drug dealer sort of way.
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>> Black for a BMW with blacked out windows always looks good, in a drug dealer
>> sort of way.
I'd need to swap the Goldie for a Pitbull.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 1 Aug 17 at 12:46
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>>But is it worth £650?
I will find it hard to specify a car without built in satnav.
The few moments faffing around at the beginning and end of a journey, at least a couple of times a day, with trailing wires and then having to take it with you when you leave the car and hide away the cables is a real PITA!
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I tend to plan the night before, especially when visiting new places - I check the route for correct location, time and distance, and then it is there in the recent places when I want it the next day. Much easier to do it on the phone the night before while watching TV or listening to the wireless.
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I plan using google maps on the pc, then send the resulting routing to my phone.
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>> (1) in the wrong place - most are in the centre of the car easily
>> visible to, and adjustable by, front seat passenger on the move.
So to drive a Golf you now need a co-pilot.
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>> (2) have poor user input ergonomics - simple to put post code in on mine,
>> all you need in 99% of cases. Previous BMW one would only take first half
>> of post code then needed you to select street - not good.
I was thinking primarily of changing stuff on the fly, on the move. Like finding a tesco, or a pub for example.
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>> So to drive a Golf you now need a co-pilot.
Or else to set the sat nav before you start the journey - probably best practice anyway, although it doesn't help when you are tying to change route part way.
>> I was thinking primarily of changing stuff on the fly
reasonable point.
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What's wrong with in-car Sat-Navs - they are designed in say 18mths / 2 years before the car comes out to get the "extra bits" of a fitted system - not easily upgradeable to the newer specs as with standalone Garmins, TomToms systems.
Mid way through the 5 year life of a car design - it will get a facelift & a tweek to the Sat-nav which is some 4.5 years in design. If you buy a new car at the end of the car lifecycle it can be of a dinosaur design of 6/7 years ago.
Very similar to the first Jags, BMWs & Mercs that cable connected mobile phone (before the advent of Blutooth). Your car could be brand new but you had to use a Motorola phone that was new to market 2 years previously - the current Motorola clamshell phone might look similar but the electronics has moved on.
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VW has just upgraded all of the head units in various cars across the brands, e.g. the top of the range sat nav unit is now 9.2" and not 8" and the buttons have been removed. Also can connect to the Internet.
GPS receivers from years ago got a lot more powerful when they started using reflected GPS signals to help with accuracy. Then we now have more satellites the newest chipsets can use. So my phone only uses GPS and GLONASS but the very latest will start to use Galileo and BeiDou. Add on Assisted GPS for Ephermis data and you can get a lock quickly and accurately.
Most of the VW group head units these days either come with sat nav as standard or can be easily added. The GPS hardware is already there but the software needs activating and maps inserting. A Mazda6 back in 2014 sold as a Nav model had the GPS module inserted at the dealers.
Most new or revised model year cars now must have the ability to alert the emergency services either automatically in an accident or by you pressing a button. So they must all have GPS in there and a phone module. And yet you pay a premium on the Columbus 9.2" from Skoda to use Remote SIM Access Profile.
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>> Most new or revised model year cars now must have the ability to alert the
>> emergency services either automatically in an accident or by you pressing a button. So they
>> must all have GPS in there and a phone module.
I think that's mandatory on new cars from next year. EU has been trying to get GPS into cars for years - they started off wanting it for road tolling but switched to safety.
VW's nav system (we have Discover Nav in a 2015 Tiguan, fitted as standard) has too little traffic information by default, and too much if you connect a mobile phone to it. The system in my 2005 Mercedes works far better - pretty accurately showing slow and stopped traffic.
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>> I was thinking primarily of changing stuff on the fly, on the move. Like finding
>> a tesco, or a pub for example.
Or trying to find a Wetherspoons. They are closing all the good, local ones.
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I tried that in the BMW
"Navigation - Good Wetherspoons" I shouted
"Does not compute" came the response.
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Thank goodness, says Duncan :-)
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Well, this has certainly started a debate! I only had the built in one because my Golf 'Match' bought last year (and the Match designation showing the end of the current model, I suppose),included the basic Satnav.
It certainly is lacking compared with my last Tom Tom bought about 18 months ago as that has free for life, live traffic updates and shows, closed roads and those with congestion etc which I miss on the VW system. I agree that although the whole unit is angled somewhat towards the driver, it is still badly situated though I can bring up instructions between the two major instrument dial.
Clearly, cars are now coming out with virtual electronic instrument displays that can show the navigation on a larger scale where it should be in the driver's view.
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>> It's not elegant but I have taken to using Google maps on the phone, on
>> an air vent mount. I have all the UK map downloaded to the SD card
>> so data usage is low.
I broadly agree with Zs summary of the BMW Professional Nav, but you can't accuse it of out of dat maps. It downloads updates quarterly using the built in SIM card in the car :) It also seems to be good at learning your preferred route...if you consistently ignore its preferred routing, as I sometimes do to make use of back roads which I *know* will be quicker, then after a few times it'll start using that in its routing.
I've also never had an issue with the traffic information either, but that's going to vary massively from person to person/ location to location I imagine. In rural Spain last week Google maps was insistent that traffic problems lay ahead...the road showing as orange and then red. Reality? 6 cars in 10K. Now, to be fair, that might be heavy traffic for Yecla. But it wasn't helping me :)
But by far my favourite 'built in' satnav is Audis MMI+ system, which uses google earth satellite imagery for its mapping. It's purely an aesthetic choice; the routing and traffic info is probably worse than the BMWs ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 2 Aug 17 at 01:59
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The later VW units let you use not only Google Earth maps but you can use street view. Not sure if that's only for the ones with built in Internet access (and also therefore Remote SIM profile) or if you setup a WiFi hotspot on your mobile.
I'll find out later this year I guess. But it wasn't that important to me. Can plug in the phone and use Google maps anyway, plus Spotify, Google Play, etc.
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Yes the Audi one needs a SIM card as well; it then creates a wifi hotspot in the car as well, but afaik it won't work with a just phones data connection. If you're using apple CarPlay, remember to turn on the orientation 'lock' on your phone.. a recent hire car (Merc A Class) had it and I didn't...every time I turned the wheel the map would spin round...most annoying!! Took me a while to work out what it was!
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Volkswagen - Satnav malfunction after accident - Zero
