www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40729398
Redbridge Council said tickets could be issued for parking "more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking space".
"It's totally unfair, and to make sure I'm not overhanging too much I'm parking my car so close to my house that I'm bashing it every time I park."
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That's not entirely unreasonable is it?
There is a bloke up the road from me who always parks well over halfway onto the pavement, despite the road being wide enough to park completely in the road (and he has an empty drive too!). And a bloke round the corner, who has a caravan on his drive, puts all four wheels of his displaced vehicle on a particularly wide bit of pavement - not really causing an obstruction to anyone but that's not what the pavement width is for at that point.
In my bad moments I sometimes wish someone would do something about them, though I am also believe in "live and let live", and as they don't bother me personally I am not that concerned.
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>> That's not entirely unreasonable is it?
No, but what's unreasonable is the sudden change in the rules that mean houseowners have no immediate way of complying. I can see why they are cheesed off.
Like you I hate pavement parking. Some of my neighbours do it. It only started about 5 years ago with one house, and now the people in the next two houses have followed suit. There's no need for it, the road is wide enough to park on it, and even with half the car on the pavement is still only wide enough for one to pass.
One of my other neighbours, in her 80s and with a walking frame, has to pass them to get to the bus stop. Sometimes she has to go into the road to walk round them. She always bats the mirrors in!
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Not sure those houses were actually built with drives at all whether to fit pre-war cars or not. What is more certain is that a lot of them have further reduced space by adding porches and similar extensions moving the building line even nearer the pavement.
If you're partially sighted and using the pavement the Merc in the picture is a problem.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 26 Jul 17 at 20:37
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Seems reasonable to me, don't buy a big car when all you've got is a small drive.
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No they weren't. I used to live not far from Gants Hill. Like lot of suburban London those houses all had pretty little front gardens which used to be a pride to their owners in pre mass car ownership days. The loss of front gardens to car parking has disfigured our suburbs and not done a lot for the environment.
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>>No they weren't.
My experience of similar inter war developments was in North London; Stanmore, Belmont, Kenton and surroundings. If they had drives for cars they went between pairs of semis and lead to a plot or garage which was effectively in rear garden. Some were only one car's width between the houses with a 'wiggle' into garages and a restriction to prohibit parking in the shared access.
Provision of driveway with or without garage, and shared or dedicated drives would all be add ons or mark progress from base model to 'GLS' specification for original purchaser.
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I've seen a sticky label on a cars windscreen:
The deep scratch in your paintwork was caused by the metal ferrule on the end of the white stick carried by the man wearing sunglasses who was walking his Labrador.
I've no sympathy whatsoever for car owners parking over pavements.
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Sort of stating the obvious I suppose, but it does seem a bit daft to buy or rent a property with inadequate parking for your needs. Those houses are fine if you don't have a car, or are happy with a small one, but it's not exactly tough to work out that a large vehicle just won't fit.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 08:51
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>> Sort of stating the obvious I suppose, but it does seem a bit daft to
>> buy or rent a property with inadequate parking for your needs.
>>
Or indeed buy a car that you do not have room to park
Depends which comes first I guess, and your needs change so you have to either work out a way round the problem or put up with it
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I thought the public transport in the south east was so good that cars were an unnecessary luxury.
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>> I thought the public transport in the south east was so good that cars were
>> an unnecessary luxury.
>>
It's like anywhere else. ON, in the cities you don't really need a car, further out, or in smaller towns it makes life a lot simpler.
I don't know why you seem to feel the need to have a go at the south east. It's a different life than north of the border in many ways but I don't think, as a Glaswegian who has lived in the Thames Valley 25 miles from London for the last 30 years that there is much difference in quality of life.
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>> as a Glaswegian who has lived in the Thames Valley 25
>> miles from London for the last 30 years that there is much difference in quality
>> of life.
>>
25 miles out in the Thames valley is a leafy suburb and like a different country to living in an inner city area.
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>> 25 miles out in the Thames valley is a leafy suburb and like a different
>> country to living in an inner city area.
>>
agreed, but I have commuted at various times into central London and have worked in both Edinburgh and Glasgow over the years and have no desire to live in a city anywhere in the country.
My point was that the south east is no different from anywhere else, apart from bigger and even busier than most areas.
I grew up for the first 10 years of my life 400 yards from the east end of Sauchiehall Street, so I do know a bit about city living as well
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>> My point was that the south east is no different from anywhere else, apart from
>> bigger and even busier than most areas.
>>
I totally agree, but why do people get wound up when I point out that it is a congested nightmare and there are better places to live, like the Thames valley. As long as you don't go east. :-)
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Because some people have little choice in where they live and some people enjoy city living and you come across as smug and pompous?
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>> Because some people have little choice in where they live and some people enjoy city
>> living and you come across as smug and pompous?
>>
I would imagine it's because it works, ON writes something disparaging about the SE and someone nearly always bites.
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Because as so often is the case they only care for themselves and think if they can get away with breaking the rules they will.
Buy a smaller car, or use the tube. Gants Hill station is just down the road.
And how many of them have paid for a dropped kerb?
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In that road(I used to live near there),the cars are NOT parked on driveways but in front gardens.
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The headline doesn't make sense. A fine for parking "more than 50cm from the edge" ? They mean you can overhang the pavement by up to 50cm? So an obstruction projecting 50 cm is no hazard to a wheelchair or a blind person, but 51 cm is ?
The rule should simply be "No obstruction of the pavement".
When I lived in London I knew someone who made a point of walking over any car parked on the pavement. Not condoning, etc etc ......
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I think the just want to avoid being seen as over zealous. A problem around here for pedestrians is untrimmed hedges obstructing the pavement. I think the council apply a similar rule.
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>> No they weren't. I used to live not far from Gants Hill. Like lot of
>> suburban London those houses all had pretty little front gardens which used to be a
>> pride to their owners in pre mass car ownership days. The loss of front gardens
>> to car parking has disfigured our suburbs and not done a lot for the environment.
>>
Google Earth isn't very clear but it looks like there's no on-street parking and maybe the road has been narrowed in parts which makes the footpath wider?
There does seem to be reasonable space to get past even the Merc E Class in the picture. The pavements in houses arund where I live are much narrower and often obstructed completely.
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>> Google Earth isn't very clear but it looks like there's no on-street parking and maybe
>> the road has been narrowed in parts which makes the footpath wider?
Probably just the way it was designed. Our similar street in Stanmore had verges and islands. Built before mass ownership of cars, never mind second/third cars, was thought of
>> There does seem to be reasonable space to get past even the Merc E Class
>> in the picture.
Unless your'e blind/partially sighted.
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>>Unless your'e blind/partially sighted.
That is the most ridiculous thing you could write. There are plenty of obstacles on these pavements. goo.gl/maps/gBbqqY6KSo62
Would you have the lamp-posts and the street-lights and the trees removed from the pavements as well? If not then the cars are no more a danger to the blind than are the trees; probably less in fact as they are bigger and more easily seen.
The pavements are very wide. Probably because some bright spark at the council many years ago decided the easiest way to deal with the parking problem was to permit people to park on their front gardens but overlapping onto the pavement.
But then, there are different ways of living there. This picture illustrates this: goo.gl/maps/Jp6UXoFV2pF2
The couple on the right have plenty of space in their front garden and two small cars. The couple on the left have two larger cars AND a porch. The blue private hire car would fit in front of the front door of the right-hand-house, but not in front of the bay window of the left-hand-house.
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>> >>Unless your'e blind/partially sighted.
>>
>> That is the most ridiculous thing you could write.
>>
>> Would you have the lamp-posts and the street-lights and the trees removed from the
>> pavements as well? If not then the cars are no more a danger to the blind
>> than are the trees; probably less in fact as they are bigger and more easily
>> seen.
Firstly, as a blind friend pointed out years ago the lamp posts etc are on the outside of the pavements. If walking with a white stick, he walked to the inside, away from the traffic.
Secondly, if you are blind, how are the trees "more easily seen".
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>>Secondly, if you are blind, how are the trees "more easily seen".
LOL
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Many "registered blind" are not totally without vision, they often see blurry outlines, shapes and colours.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 12:06
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>> Firstly, as a blind friend pointed out years ago the lamp posts etc are on
>> the outside of the pavements. If walking with a white stick, he walked to the
>> inside, away from the traffic.
Your blind friend would bump into telephone boxes, then, which are generally on the inside. As often are lamp posts. Either your blind friend is stupid, or you're making it up.
goo.gl/maps/Mpbw4MUo3iA2
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Telephone boxes are always there.
Cars come and go, varying in their position by inches or feet..
Blind people learn their routes very quickly so the point about telephone boxes is just silly.
Parking on a pavement is illegal hence the tickets.
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>> Parking on a pavement is illegal hence the tickets.
>>
...I don't believe parking on a pavement is, per se, illegal in most of the UK (though other offences such as obstruction may apply).
Parking on a pavement in London, however, is in itself an offence (with but a few exceptions), due to specific legislation.
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>> Your blind friend would bump into telephone boxes, then, which are generally on the inside.
>> As often are lamp posts. Either your blind friend is stupid, or you're making it
>> up.
>>
telephone boxes don't move or change position and he knows the local ones
Lamp posts in Huddersfield where he still lives don't move either.
He is totally blind, has been from birth, no fuzzy shapes etc.
Would you like to explain your last sentence as I find it extremely rude and unpleasant
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>>Would you like to explain your last sentence as I find it extremely rude and unpleasant
You wrote:
>> Firstly, as a blind friend pointed out years ago the lamp posts etc are on
>> the outside of the pavements. If walking with a white stick, he walked to the
>> inside, away from the traffic.
With application of this general rule, he would bump into e.g. telephone boxes, those large GPO green boxes, pillar boxes and pavement cafe tables. The general rule you quote is accordingly of no use to anybody, least of all a blind person. Therefore either he is stupid as he is endlessly bumping into telephone boxes, or you're making it up as it just doesn't work as a strategy.
Are pavements easy for blind people to navigate? No. Does it help if cars are parked on the pavement? No. But... is it true to say that because lamp posts are on the outside of the pavement that the inside of a pavement is a safe route to follow? No way.
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All of the fixed objects on his usual routes, understandably he doesn't often go out on his own outside Huddersfield, he knows and know where the obstructions are or at least what obstructions are on which street. I saw no reason to doubt it when he described his usual route, for example, from his parents' house to his brother's house, which was where I usually met him.
If you are blind you develop some senses more to replace sight.
He is far from stupid and, in his own area, he does not bump into things which don't move and were there yesterday.
Since you have repeated "or you're making it up" I shall assume that you meant that bit as it read and are a particularly rude and unpleasant individual who I shall ignore from now on.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Fri 28 Jul 17 at 13:00
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>> Are pavements easy for blind people to navigate? No. Does it help if cars are
>> parked on the pavement? No. But... is it true to say that because lamp posts
>> are on the outside of the pavement that the inside of a pavement is a
>> safe route to follow? No way.
MM, AIUI you work and live near to Central London. When I worked there I regularly encountered blind and seriously vision impaired people, often the same people, navigating with a white stick. Some worked in same building as me. As Commerdriver pointed out before pillar boxes, electrical cabinets and phone boxes are fixtures, you know where they are and avoid them. Pavement cafe tables are an issue and are subject to regulation by local councils for reasons including their propensity to be a hazard to the disabled.
It's not that difficult is it?
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>> That is the most ridiculous thing you could write. There are plenty of obstacles on
>> these pavements. goo.gl/maps/gBbqqY6KSo62
When it comes to writing ridiculous things the boot is firmly on the other foot. As already pointed out we're looking from view of blind so talking about seeing things is daft.
Turn the google map to face the other way and look at the drive with a blue Micra and a silver car, possibly a Hyundai. The latter would be a real hazard for somebody navigating with a white stick. Not sure it'd be that easy for a wheelchair or double buggy either.
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>> Turn the google map to face the other way and look at the drive with a blue Micra and a silver car, possibly a Hyundai.
Looks like a Ford Focus to me. Admittedly the saloon was a rare sight. But the wheel arches are definitely Ford Focus Mark I design elements.
Walk a few paces in the direction on Google Street View and the cars quickly vanish. Obstruction gone :-) But those few paces actually jump from 2008 to 2015. The Micra and Focus disappear in the other years and the 3 series BMW became a 5 series.
I always marvel how someone that's even partially sighted gets around safely. Some routes are bad enough if you're able bodies and have good eyesight.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 13:58
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I'm not being smug but every house I've owned ( none outside Yorkshire) has had a drive suitable for at least one car, or van, plus a garage meant for its intended purpose. That's 5 houses over 40 years, including really ruff parts of Bradford & Keighley inW Yorks. Proper ruff in those cases.
Neighbours of my old Mums have ripped up lovely decent sized front gardens in order to accommodate 3 cars, or 2 cars and a van. They already had a decent drive and garage... probably full of frippery that they rarely use. Such a shame and I think it should be made illegal.
Or they should be hung.
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Only trying to help you to be a better person LL. No charge, goodness of my heart and so on.
;-)
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Pega tu cabeza hasta el culo de un oso muerto senor
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Marginally safer than doing that to a live one I suppose.
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Our idiot of a neighbour does it whenever anyone parks outside her house. She leaves her car hanging off the drive, across the pavement and blocking the "offending" car, completely blocking the pavement in the process.
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some people are stupidly possessive about "other people" parking in the road they live in.
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>> She leaves her car hanging off the drive, across the pavement and blocking the "offending" car, completely
An ill-advised tactic, especially if she's not aware of who owns the "offending car".
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>> An ill-advised tactic, especially if she's not aware of who owns the "offending car".
>>
Nobody has damaged it yet, but it has led to a few heated confrontations. The most memorable was a chap who had been visiting one of the other neighbours. When he returned to his car to unlock it, she was straight out there giving him both barrels. He listened to the tirade patiently for a minute or so, then closed the car door again, locked it, and calmly said "I was going to move it, but actually, as you have been such a thoroughly unpleasant b**ch about the whole thing, I think I'll get the bus home. Might be back for it tomorrow, depending on what I'm doing! And by the way, if it develops so much as a fly poo on the paintwork between now and then, I am going straight to the police" And walked calmly away.
She's a thoroughly unpleasant individual who seems to want to live in a big detached house miles from anyone else, but clearly can't afford it, and is bitter about it. I gave up making allowances for her behaviour years ago. I think she has upset everyone in the street at one point or another.
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I've neighbours like that. They're on a corner plot and bought the house new. They were hit with two lots of road charges and as a result seem to think they own the road at the side of their property. They'll confront anyone who parks there.
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>> What's a road charge?
IIRC if you purchase a house new from developer you pay, at some stage, a road charge in order that the Local Authority adopts the road into the publicly maintained network. Our developer, being and honest chap, included it in the quoted price for the house. In many other cases it will be an extra and possibly demanded after completion.
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I reluctantly park on the kerb, just two wheels up on the concrete so that emergency vehicles can get past (about three quarters of the people in the close are OAPS) and ambulances are fairly common.
One of the OAP's has regular visitors that will park up directly parallel to a car already parked and block the road! Idiots!
The copper that lives a few doors down made a sarcastic comment re me parking on the kerb, along the lines of "be careful you could get a ticket".
His even bigger SUV hangs over his drive and blocks the pavement in very much the same was as the Merc does in the pictures!
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Residents 'furious' over London driveway fines - smokie
