I'm trying to work out whether it's worth taking a run up to British Car Auctions at Measham (Derbyshire) tomorrow to possibly buy a car.
The one I am looking at is a white Vauxhall Ampera Positiv, 2015 reg/36k. Their CAP price guide indicates a clean guide price at auction for £12,400, and a retail price of around £14,750.
One of the MOT checking tools mentioned on here a while back estimates the auction price as £14,440.
These cars are fairly rare but there is one 15 reg on Autotrader for £15147, which has a lower mileage. (tinyurl.com/yc4g547f ) The MOT tool indicates a forecourt price of £18,280.
With the buyers premium and the cost of trotting back up there to collect the car etc I am really hoping to not pay more than about £13,500 absolute max at the auction.
Does anyone have any access to a reliable pricing tool to see if I am likely to be successful at my target price?
Or an alternative question could be if a car is retailing at the £15k mark, what is a dealer likely to have paid for it, assuming he bought it at auction?
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A dealer will have paid £10,600 part ex for it according to CAP. They are virtually unsellable, which is why its not on his forecourt.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 13:30
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Interesting choice, they didn't seem to sell many are they even on sale still? I wonder if they were a 'bridge' car with the technology before batteries that will seem dated soon?
A chap on another forum i use loves his, says he gets 200 mpg out of it.
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There are hardly any of them and they seem to get snapped up (less than a few thousand in the UK, hence only 17 on Autotrader).
Vauxhall decided to not continue sales of the Ampera in the UK due to poor take-up (said to be due to poor marketing). They are selling well in the US as the Chevvy Bolt.
There is possibly a new Ampera coming to the UK next year.
If the servicing etc has been done on time then the batteries are warrantied for 8 years from date of reg.
Owners seem to absolutely love them. They are massively efficient without the range anxiety of a filly electric car. Lifetime mpg of 150 mpg is easily achievable, if you do the right kind of journeys.
I have a few concerns about owning one, but having been in a couple they are fantastic to drive and to be a passenger in. I'm expecting it will be a long term ownership. They have a number of "known problems" which ought to have been fixed under warranty, and I have a checklist for those.
One big downside is they need to be serviced by an Ampera dealer, not just any old Vauxhall dealer. Servicing costs look quite reasonable though.
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 13:53
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>> Vauxhall decided to not continue sales of the Ampera in the UK due to poor
>> take-up (said to be due to poor marketing). They are selling well in the US
>> as the Chevvy Bolt.
They stopped selling them because they did meet meet euro 6 emission standards. The newer Chevy Volt does in the states, but with GM sold to peugeot, you can kiss any chance of that arriving.
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>> >> The one I am looking at is a white Vauxhall Ampera Positiv, 2015 reg/36k.
there is one 15 reg on Autotrader for £15147,which has a lower mileage. >>
IF I wanted one I pay the extra £1500 or so for the lower mileage, warranted etc car.
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I'm already "pushing the envelop" on price.
Dealer warranty isn't of as much interest as ensuring the servicing regime satisfies the Vx warranty.
Does it make a lot of difference whether it complies with Euro 6 or not?
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>> I'm already "pushing the envelop" on price.
>>
>> Dealer warranty isn't of as much interest as ensuring the servicing regime satisfies the Vx
>> warranty.
>>
>> Does it make a lot of difference whether it complies with Euro 6 or not?
Gets it slapped with a possible upcoming surcharge in some cities, possible a ban in some other European ones, and generally is not a fabulous recommendation for what is supposed to be a green car. All of that does not much for retained value.
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>> Dealer warranty isn't of as much interest as ensuring the servicing regime satisfies the Vx
>> warranty.
>>
I guess that makes sense, i.e. if the auction car has FDSH then it is still under manufacture's warranty which can probably be extended.
Though you could make an offer on the 19k mile car ...
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I saw one at the same dealer a bit back they are one of these fast shipping sheds and weren't open to discussion on price.
There were two at auction, one seems to have no formal recorded service history so wouldn't touch with a bargepole. I've verified the other one with Vx, including that the mileages and dates mean that the warranty isn't compromised.
Not sure how much I am concerned about the Euro 6 thing. I certainly wasn't aware of it.
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Yeah, thanks - catching up with it now.
So this car is a PETROL hybrid and therefore it seems to satisfy ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone) it has to be Euro 4. Euro 6 is diesels.
That's from
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39488291
and tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle
and a host of other sites. So it looks like it will satisfy ULEZ... doesn't it? Unless they move the goalposts again I suppose...
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So do we think being Euro 5 will be a potential issue? Serious query, as I don't want to buy something that is no use after a couple of years. I'm prepared for the risks around the technology (I think!!)
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>> They are selling well in the US as the Chevvy Bolt.
You do know the Chevy Volt (i.e. the Ampera) and the current Chevy Bolt (would have been the Ampera-e) are different cars.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 20:12
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Yes Rob, I got that.
The BCA website says their address is Tamworth Road, Measham, Swadlincote, Derbyshire, DE12 7DY. So long as Google knows where it is I'll be OK :-)
Do we think Euro 5 may be an issue?
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>> >> They are selling well in the US as the Chevvy Bolt.
>>
Tesla 3 now rolling out in the USA
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40762328
Tesla 3 prices start at $35,000 (£26,650),
The price is still higher than that of rival electric car the Nissan Leaf, which starts at $30,680,
or the hybrid Chevrolet Volt, which goes for $34,095.
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"The Model 3's electric battery will run for 354km (220 miles) before needing a recharge, Tesla says."
That's better
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>> "The Model 3's electric battery will run for 354km (220 miles) before needing a recharge,
>> Tesla says."
>>
>> That's better
Or pay an extra $9000 for the Premium version, which buys you a few bits, including a tiny bit more performance and perhaps critically, 310 miles of range.
By the time it hits the UK though(next summer at the absolute earliest), the new Leaf (launching this September, probably on the roads here by December/January) will be well established here, and the range on that is likely to be pretty good. I'm guessing 200 ish at a little bit less money than the Tesla model 3.
I wouldn't think the 3 will be much under £30000 in reality, and the Leaf might be £28000, that kind of thing.
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>>
>>
>> I wouldn't think the 3 will be much under £30000 in reality, and the Leaf
>> might be £28000, that kind of thing.
>>
It would be interesting to see how low mass production prices could go. You lose a hell of a lot of precision engineering and all the garbage associated with emission controls.
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Measham is in Leicestershire not Derbyshire...
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I was chatting to a guy in work who has one - there are two in the car-park regularly - he said it was a great motor - no complaints from him.
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>> Do we think Euro 5 may be an issue?
Not at the moment. But who knows in the future. Same applies to diesels as well.
With so many PHEVs since the Ampera was first on the market, it is odd that GM Europe decided not to bring the Bolt here.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 24 Jul 17 at 22:00
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I was interested in the Ampera but the lease company that work uses refused to source it and wouldn't give a sensible reason.
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Got it for £12900 plus auction costs, which I'm happy with. It's being delivered on Friday and it looks a good 'un.
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It will be interesting to have your follow up review.
So if you plug it in and charge each night and do low mileage, it should do an infinite number of miles to the gallon, i.e. use no petrol.
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Sounds like youve done well, and it's range is usefully more than that of our e-tron on battery only. A useable range of 45 / 50 miles would mean that all normal weekly journeys would be carried out entirely on battery, and more than 95% by frequency of all journeys would be battery powered :)
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That's my theory too. Much of my mileage doesn't take me more than about 5 miles from home, or SWMBO could use it to commute the 7 miles each way to work (but is unlikely to). I've been keen to "go electric" but SWMBO suffers "range anxiety" so a compromise was necessary.
I liked the idea of the Ampera because it is a bit different. And being a later MY than most that I was looking at, the battery warranty has five full years left and I still have a year of manufacturer warranty. There are some "known problems" which I can see on my car (e.g. alloys "de-laminating" and condensation in rear lights clusters) but these have been sorted for others under warranty so I'll be after the same. There some others which I will test when I get it, like drivers door lock sticking and also charging cover.
I probably ought to have spent the £100 or so required to get the old Focus back into sensible shape and run that truly into the ground but tbh I fancied a change. The Focus still has about 8 months MOT so I may spend the money and see if I can get £500 or £600 for it. Need to do some homework first to value it. But is is misfiring badly so it won't sell as it is.
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Smokie, the Ampera is a good buy for you since you have solar panels too. Cheap motoring times ahead I think.
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How much were auction costs?
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Auction costs are on a sliding scale and were a lot! Something in excess of £700, made up of three elements. Plus I paid for delivery. Added another £800 - £900 to the bill, or more, but still within overall budget, and I didn't expect the sale price to be achievable so I'm happy.
The solar panels are a consideration but won't help that much. I only have a modest number (14 I think) and on really good days I do OK but a lot of the time, even at this time of year, I'm not really making that much excess (over the base requirement for running the house). But every little helps :-)
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£800-£900 for delivery?
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No, delivery was £122 from Derbyshire to Berkshire. Rail fare for me would have been about £75 single and would have taken a large chunk of a day.
The biggest part of that cost was buyers premium but there were a couple of small charges (indemnities IIRC).
Thanks Lygonos, I'm already on that forum (as smokie!)
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 26 Jul 17 at 08:23
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So, unless I've missed it, you've purchased a car without physically seeing it or test driving it first?
Do you have any comeback if it's not as described? eg, a small dent or a scratch.
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....my take was that he's driven up for the auction, so, having successfully bought it, can't drive two cars back.
;-)
Delivery is more economic than subsequently catching a train one-way and driving it back.
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>>a retail price of around £14,750
And you paid £13800 at auction. If the dealer would have given you 5% (?) then that doesn't seem like much of a discount.
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>> And you paid £13800 at auction. If the dealer would have given you 5% (?)
>> then that doesn't seem like much of a discount.
>>
Got to agree that it makes the 19k mile /£15 one look reasonable value, what colour is it etc?
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Yeah I realise that once all the costs are factored in (and there's no reason they oughtn't be) my savings weren't that great.
They are fairly rare at dealers and auctions. The one I looked at a local dealer last week was $15800 on the window but £15300 on the screen. In real life the prices are a bit all over the place. Mine is a 2015 with 39k.
This link has ALL 19 Amperas on Autotrader, you can see how variable the prices are, but it is critical that the servicing has been done on time to retain the 8 year drivetrain warranty, and some haven't been. tinyurl.com/ybav22fo
The one I have is lithium white.
T&E is right, I read about it in the BCA catalogue where there is an engineers report and a bodywork condition report. Then I went up there yesterday and looked at it before bidding, though you can really only look round the outside of it.
I knew about the buyer premium but the few hundred quid of other costs weren't factored in. So I know I probably didn't get best price but at the moment I'm happy with it and that's what counts. :-) I hope I feel the same once it's delivered on Friday!!
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What's the difference between the 1.4 and 1.0ltr versions?
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I think they're all 1.4s - the 1.0 is an autotrader glitch
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>> I think they're all 1.4s >>
Aha, thanks.
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I liked the idea of the Ampera and look forward to your forthcoming driving reviews! :-)
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It was delivered today but had virtually no leccy in the battery. I need to RTFM a bit on how it charges itself, as I the car was driven down the 100+ miles this morning and I'd thought it would charge the battery while doing so. I think it probably does, but I think it discharges as well -
there is a Hold setting to keep it from using the battery power.
Anyway I stuck it on charge for a bit, and when it had 13 miles I took it for a spin round the extended block. I genuinely grinned at the smooth and fast take off in Sport mode. It is quite a weird sensation having no engine noise - and I am a bit deaf anyway!! Also no gear changes. Just smooth acceleration. There is a button to emit a small parp for pedestrians who may have not heard you.
It has a lifetime mpg readout which is on 66.7 mpg and I don't believe I can reset it. People on the EV forum are managing to get this into the hundreds, though I doubt I will for many years given the mileage so far and my likely mileage.
I am really looking forward to getting it fully charged (by 2pm if I leave it, apparently) and taking it on the motorway. Meantime I'm getting all the sticker residue off and trying to learn a bit about it.
I've not been so excited by a "new" car since my first ever car I reckon!!!
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>>It has a lifetime mpg readout which is on 66.7 mpg
Indicates the amount of 'charged battery' miles vs 'engine' ones.
I'd guess about half of it's mileage has come from a 13A socket and the other half from the ICE.
Always sounded an excellent compromise between ICE and pure EV - pity it didn't take off here.
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>> There is a button to emit a small parp for pedestrians who may have not heard you.
I thought all cars already had that feature ;)
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>> >> There is a button to emit a small parp for pedestrians who may have not heard you.
>>
Ah! the RR button ( Road Rage) button. Not to used in all circumstances or else!
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>>Not to used in all circumstances or else!
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....why would one want to use it in all circumstances.......?
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LOL it's just a rather pathetic beep...
I have one problem which is the second key isn't working. Looks unused and works fine with battery from the working key, so it's programmed OK.
I've tried new batteries, which read 3v on my tester, but no joy. I've ordered some new batteries.
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>>LOL it's just a rather pathetic beep...
Mine emits a rather mournful drone that turns off above 20mph or so.
I can't hear it from inside the car fortunately.
I can turn it off from the control panel but then pedestrians just amble along on the road oblivious to me behind them.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 13:39
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>> LOL it's just a rather pathetic beep...
Sounds like the standard Vauxhall horn then. The one on my Astra would put Noddy's car horn to shame. I keep meaning to upgrade it to a twin tone horn that's fitted to the earlier Insignia's, but still haven't got round to it yet.
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I really can't remember the last time I had to beep anyone, and I can't remember the wife ever having to.
We don't cover a great mileage, though.
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Don't think, actually I'm certain, that I've never used the horn on any car in over 40 years of driving other than to test that it's working for MOTs. And I cover huge mileages. Most of the times I've witnessed them used by others is to "reprimand" someone for something they've already done, which seems like a futile activity. All you get then is an already stupid or thoughtless person transformed into an angry or nervous stupid or thoughtless person, which is at best, not useful.
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>> Don't think, actually I'm certain, that I've never used the horn on any car in
>> over 40 years of driving other than to test that it's working for MOTs.
Strange behaviour....
Surely you give several farewell toots on the horn when you drop your friends off outside their houses in the early hours?
Likewise, give several blasts on the horn when you arrive in the early hours to take them to the airport. No?
I mean, otherwise how do they know that you have arrived?
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> I mean, otherwise how do they know that you have arrived?
>>
He's got a text system, your taxi has arrived.
;)
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>> I have one problem which is the second key isn't working. Looks unused and works
>> fine with battery from the working key, so it's programmed OK.
The 'looks unused' could be the problem.
IIRC some keys use a 'rolling' code, that changes at every use. If the other key isn't used every now and then, it becomes too far from the code to work.
I'm sure someone here on t'other side could explain it better (and direct you how to correct the problem).
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He said this earlier: "Key now fixed, got a Poundland card of (the wrong) batteries."
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>> ....why would one want to use it in all circumstances.......?
>>
see posting @ Thu 27 Jul 17 15:01
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Yeah, whenever I've tried to use the horn I always seem to miss the right part of the steering wheel!!
This one is to alert pedestrians as electric vehicles are really quiet. I doubt it will get used.
Key now fixed, got a Poundland card of (the wrong) batteries.
I've moved all my "essentials" from the old car.
Now I'm onto the important stuff - I've copied a load of music to a 64Gb USB stick, which it's supposed to read. it did go into "indexing" then dropped back to radio after a while. Not sure what's going on, suppose I'll have to RTFM again...
There must be something about it, I saw a few people (well, only blokes) double take at it. I suppose it's unusual, and clean!!
The 8 or so miles to Poundland cost me pennies...
The charging lead is on a 13A plug, and the car is showing two charging modes, 6A and 10A. It defaults to 6 but changing it to 10 seems a bit, but not a huge amount, quicker. I have a charging outlet (courtesy of the free offer a year or so ago) so I'm going to see if it can be changed on that (which I think is 16A) as it would no doubt be quicker still. Though an overnight charge will normally be good enough for me. And the charging leads aren't cheap. But at the moment I can't charge it on a public charger, if ever I should want to.
I will need to work out a cost per hour to offer to pay to any friends/rellies who I visit, and cadge some leccy from.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 15:36
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>> I will need to work out a cost per hour to offer to pay to
>> any friends/rellies who I visit, and cadge some leccy from.
Couldn't you take a generator with you and charge up the battery that way? Supposing your friends don't have off road charging points, or something?
What do you mean 'I've not been paying attention'?
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I'm sure they've got an extension reel.
;)
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 27 Jul 17 at 16:07
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OK if you have a tow bar .
Are they speed rated for Tesla :-)
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Most EV and PHEV have the charging point at the front or side... not going to be possible to have that plugged in whilst moving.
In fact I don't think you could 'start' the Passat GTE when plugged in. Nice idea I guess.
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I wonder how many mpg smokie will get. But then again mpg is not really valid with a PHEV.
If he mostly sticks to the range from the battery then hundreds of mpg is possible - infinite even. But need to petrol engine and this will drop. The long term mpg on this car is already mid 60s mpg.
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Well today I've done maybe 15 or 20 miles and got over 120 mpg. Would have been better except I experimented a bit with the petrol mode (where you "hold" electric power for later use, i.e. force ICE).
This is an ex Leaseplan car so I expect was a company car for someone, who like others here ;-) was more interested in the bik than the mpg. I suppose I should make myself a target to get the lifetime mpg to 100.
People on the EV forum who have the right size commute etc are getting hundreds of miles per gallon all the time. I wish I could reset the lifetime thing - maybe for once I'll just keep manual records of fuel bought.
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>>lifetime mpg to 100
I have left the company car trap and am now saving about £150 a month on BIK, £50 on trade up £500 (before tax) on allowance, monthly.
I have a 1.7TDI and it is returning 45 mpg on a run after 10,000 miles, I have given up on driving gingerly as it only saved a couple of MPG (got it up to 47).
Turning slightly green with envy! ;-)
Next time I am getting a smaller car, I am finding the SUV a pain to park in some places. It may be more economical too.
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>> I wish I could reset the lifetime thing
Maybe Vauxhall can with the right diagnostic kit?
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>>
>> People on the EV forum
I have toyed with buying an electric car, but never got any further than that. Which EV forum is that smokie?
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speakev.com/
I think resetting the lifetime mileage defeats the object so I doubt it would be done.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 28 Jul 17 at 08:23
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Smokie, have you registered for Vauxhall's Masterfit Service Club yet?
my.vauxhall.co.uk/serviceClubDiscount
Vehicle age: 2 -3 years =15% discount on servicing and repairs.
Vehicle age: 3+ years = 25% discount on servicing and repairs .
And half price MOTs too.
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Haven't yet registered but I'm aware of it, but thanks very much for the tip.
When buying one of these cars the VIN number tells you some useful info, specifically the MY. When you enter your Vx registration on that site, one of the pieces of info it return is the VIN number.
If ever you need to, you can interpret a VIN here. vindecoder.eu/
One downside of the Ampera is that it HAS to be serviced at a Vx Ampera specialist dealer, ot any old dealer. My closest is about 15 miles away I think.
But there upsides, like a number of items on a regular ICE vehicle which do not feature in an Ampera, so hoping to keep servicing costs low anyway. E.g. no turbo, alternator, cam belt, clutch or gearbox. I also read that the regenerative brakes means discs are replaced due to old age not wear.
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>> HAS to be serviced at a Vx Ampera specialist dealer, ot any old dealer. My closest is about 15 miles away I think.
Hopefully Vauxhall will have more PHEV and electric cars soon. With so few Ampera's why would a dealership retrain staff if the Ampera trained staff move on?
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I've now done about 130 miles since taking ownership and 0.08 of a gallon used today for the last couple of miles of a 50 miles round trip. When the leccy ran out (on the motorway) it just switched across to the ICE with no noticeable anything - didn't even notice an increase in noise at motorway speed, and it didn't jerk or hesitate.
It is a wonderful drive, it's just a shame the range isn't a bit more and also that it takes quite so long to charge but I am loving it.
And someone is coming tomorrow am and is very keen to buy the old Focus. Be sad to see it go but it's had it's day with me...
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If I was in the market for another car ( one car family) I might be tempted.
An added bonus would be is parking at the charging point immediately by the entrance underground in the dry of the Waitrose I frequent.:-)
That is provided an ICE vehicle has not ignored the signs and the blue LEDs on the wall.
My very infrequent 200 mile round trips to visit friends would need to be tackled.
If my present low annual mileage continues, my petrol low mileage X Type should easily outlast me. To hell with the high cost of RFL etc., I am enjoying it.
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200 mile round trip not a problem for this one as it switches to petrol once the electricity is exhausted. But most of my motoring is local (therefore electric) only so this seems about the best type of hybrid for economy for me. Feels very fast too, in sport mode especially, but that reduces your range.
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"Click" on the BBC last night (this morning) had some interesting articles on embedding solar panels in roads, dynamic charging of electric cars whilst driving and how lasers map 3d spaces (for driver-less cars).
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>> it just switched across to the ICE with no noticeable anything
Does the ICE generate electricity or provide direct power in the old-fashioned manner?
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It powers the electric motor which runs the wheels.
It is really zoomy from a standing start in sport mode. No gear changes and instant response. But you pay a bit of a price in range when you use sport mode.
Almost got a couple of pedestrians yesterday in a car park, due to it's quietness I think.
First long run tomorrow, 180 round trip mostly on the M25 with no charging at the other end. So I am planning to use ICE when bowling along on the motorway and save the leccy for the stop/start and town bits - that seems to be to the tactic the experienced people use.
It'll be interesting to see the actual mpg on petrol, I'm expecting around 50 mpg. (Over 200 miles to date but still only used 0.08 gal)
I'd just got the lifetime mileage up to 66.9 from 66.7 but it will take a hit again :-(
I just found this site which is the monitoring data for the equivalent car in the US (Chevy Volt). Some interesting stats there, including a 350,000 mile car which apparently has only had to have 2 exhausts, over and above normal servicing! www.voltstats.net/
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Vauxhall Ampera - Value of a car at auction - Zero
