How can you trust a company that says, in effect, "There's no problem but we're fixing it":
The car manufacturer has insisted that cheat devices were not fitted in cars sold in the UK, but said it is applying a ‘technical fix’ to them anyway to give drivers ‘peace of mind.’"
assuming that what the Mail says actually represents what was said.
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So they have found Two examples. Rear wing smashed off? Nope, slight nudge and graze with broken off rear bumper. Going into limp home mode is terrifying? yeah right.
However, VW says that the cheat device wasn't fitted to UK cars.
1/ So why fix it?
2/ Shows that a deliberate attempt to cheat the Americans was made, and that simply does not happen because of rogue engineers.
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Watchdog on BBC 1 at 8pm. More tabloid media ! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 12 Jul 17 at 19:57
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>> Going into limp home mode is terrifying? yeah right.
>>
For a woman with kids in the car, heavy traffic at night, possibly. Not everyone is a rough, tough, motorway warrior like you.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 12 Jul 17 at 20:01
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Lurid overhyped headlines.
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With a photo of a VW clipped by an HGV.
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Clipped. Not "wing ripped off" From what is clearly a low speed event
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 12 Jul 17 at 20:12
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I understood that the fix was to in effect delete the " cheat " that allowed VWs to perform well in the controlled test and nothing else.
This would then restore them to an honest transparent company.
The customer would detect no changes.
No promises of less pollution or better fuel consumption results.
So why is anyone taking any notice of a letter from VW?
So you can show the next buyer that the car is got all the stamps ?
I would be inclined to deep file the letter and just carry on.
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>>I would be inclined to deep file the letter and just carry on.
But the next time you take the car in for a service they will apply the fix!
I would ask them not to but they are likely to ignore that and apply it anyway.
I wonder if you asked it not to be "fixed" and they did, what the implications would be, assuming that they couldn't easily reverse the fix?
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I've had in last couple of weeks invitation to contact dealer for update to my EA189 1.6/90 Skoda Roomster.
Ignoring it for now. If it needs other attention or gets to next service without update I will instruct them to leave it as is until I'm satisfied that assertions of no effect on performance/economy are borne out.
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>> Ignoring it for now. If it needs other attention or gets to next service without
>> update I will instruct them to leave it as is until I'm satisfied that assertions
>> of no effect on performance/economy are borne out.
>>
Skoda dealers generally have a good reputation but I've seen multiple reports of VW dealers doing the update despite being requested not to.
I assume it applies to Skoda too, but VW have recently capitualted on their previous stance of stone-walling any subsequent issues and are now warranting any subsequent related fuel system and emissions related issues.
I find it weird how the outcome varies - some people say no issues at all, car drives the same and MPG unaffected. Others have all sorts of problems.
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Chatted about this to one of our lawyers this morning whilst having a coffee break (he drives a Maserati).
If they installed software without permission then it could fall under the Computer Misuse Act.
Proving it or getting anyone to prosecute it would be another matter of course.
I was hoping for vandalism or criminal damage but as it isn't physical it doesn't count apparently.
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>> If they installed software without permission then it could fall under the Computer Misuse Act.
Err No. VW own the code. When you buy the car you only get the right to utilise it. Its just like Microsoft shipping you updates to Win 10 over the air
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>>
>> >> If they installed software without permission then it could fall under the Computer Misuse
>> Act.
>>
>> Err No. VW own the code. When you buy the car you only get the
>> right to utilise it. Its just like Microsoft shipping you updates to Win 10 over
>> the air
>>
You own the computer. If VW change the code on the computer without your permission then that is potentially a crime.
Same with Microsoft. You select a download of extra software by altering a setting. If you alter the setting to say no updates and they do it anyway then that is not allowed surely?
There are probably T&Cs in the manual somewhere that says something along the lines of "if you use the car then you accept the software licence and that allows us to update the software). In a PC you click a link to do this but you don't in a car!
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>> You own the computer. If VW change the code on the computer without your permission
>> then that is potentially a crime.
You don't own the software in the chips on the car. You buy the right to use it. (ok some of it is open source, but not all of it)
>> Same with Microsoft. You select a download of extra software by altering a setting. If
>> you alter the setting to say no updates and they do it anyway then that
>> is not allowed surely?
You dont get the option in Windows 10. It updates, as a user you can't stop it*
>> There are probably T&Cs in the manual somewhere that says something along the lines of
>> "if you use the car then you accept the software licence and that allows us
>> to update the software).
Its in the contract you sign to buy the car/or in the manual.
In short, you take the car to VW for service, they can if they wish, legally change the software**
*Ok, technically you can if you have the knowledge to tinker in the registry and bypass it, but the intention, out the box, is for MS to update the software as and when they wish.
** However if that change fails to meet or degrades the specification you bought, you may then have a legal case under various consumer protection laws.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 13 Jul 17 at 22:32
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So WHEN, Not IF, A VW goes into limp mode, and a car is going along the M25 in the middle lane, and suddenly it looses all power , and a lorry ploughs into the back of it, and kills those driving it......legallly the person driving into it is liable, and could be sentenced to time in jail, when it's a known problem of VW..
About 10 years ago, I'd driven down from Weybridge to Brighton, then drove back to see another client near Hickstead , all without issue
After that I was heading home, joined the A23 went from the inside lane to the outside Lane, and as soon as I pulled out and went to accelerate , there was Nothing , zilch.......
Fortunatley the cars behind me were far enough away, and reacted when I put the hazard lights on .........I only managed to get back into the inside Lane, and then pulled off, it was very frightening .
I got the AA out and it was a blocked ERG valve.
I hope nothing like this happens to a VW driver
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I have had an engine cut out completely at high speed in lane three (hire car, broken points) not something I would like to repeat.
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There were problems with the Golf Mk III a relative had. Only ever on motorways in the rain, the car could cut-out occasionally. Happened in lane three a few times. Get it to the hard shoulder and get it recovered.
VW never did fix this car. Later cars apparently had a metal plate under the engine, presumably to protect some electrics from water off the road?
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Some of these things blaming the EGR valve don't add up…
Many DIY tunners delete their EGR valve and blank it off.. If the EGR valve fails (which I've had) it fails in the open position which if anything improves MPG and performance.
Limp mode after heavy acceleration on a TDi is a possible sign that the VNT turbo has become carbonised producing over-boast - therefore protecting itself by shutting down (reset by ignition off/on).
Last edited by: Rudedog on Wed 12 Jul 17 at 23:11
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>>and a car is going along the M25 in the middle lane, and suddenly it looses all power , and a lorry ploughs into the back of it, and kills those driving it......legallly the person driving into it is liable, and could be sentenced to time in jail, when it's a known problem of VW..
A vehicle which sudden goes into limp mode doesn't screech to a halt, it just loses power. OK, a bit dodgy mid overtaking maneuver or whilst driving aggresively, but in a straight line it'll just slow down to an eventual stop.
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I had two EGR's fail on the Mondeo.
1. First failure meant it produced loads of black smoke out of the back. But it still drove.
2. Next EGR failure had the car grind to a halt on a hill near home. Managed to roll it around the corner and off the A road. Trying to restart it sounded really weird - RAC guy hadn't heard anything like it.
So the second failure, had the car towed to home and then to Ford the next morning. Diagnosed as an EGR failure.
It didn't go into limp mode admittedly... the car just cut out and would not restart. That might have been an issue on a motorway. As it happens I was on a 30mph A road going downhill and near a left turn as well.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 12 Jul 17 at 23:47
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This is all making me feel glad my current car is a petrol... and the next one too.
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The early MK2 Focus TDCI initially had an underpowered EGR valve which could randomly cause the car to lose power on acceleration. This was replaced on customer complaint. Mine was put off the road as dangerous and I was provided with a Ford funded Mondeo hire car for three weeks while the high demand valve was obtained. There was never a recall for this fault. I discovered that fix, and the key words in the complaint to trigger a repair, and the date of fix availability online.
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VW limp mode after fix. - Manatee
