On Wednesday, for first time in over 20 years, I got caught in a motorway closure traffic jam. Cause was an accident on M1 near Newport Pagnell involving a fuel tanker and a spill of diesel. Effect was a southbound closure from J15 down to 14 - a stretch of about 15 miles. Bound for Heathrow to pick up Mrs B I'd ummed and ahhed about whether to use A43/M40 or M1. As I was starting from work chose latter. Wig wags were on as soon as I joined with queue ahead/queue caution but no warning until I was committed.
Ground to a halt by Salcey Forest at around 15:35, just south of village of Hartwell. Blazing sunshine and (as usual) I had no water in the car. Shortly after stopping a fire engine went by northbound and returned via hard shoulder in what seemed very short order. An ambulance came down 10mins later.
After a while people start getting out of their cars and chatting. Traffic news on BBC and Traffic England website told us about fuel spill etc and likelihood road would not re-open until around 19:00 - later amended to 21:00. Tried to re-plan Mrs B via trains but knew she was suffering with feet/legs due too much walking/standing at conference in Czech Republic and would struggle with required walking - and Heathrow Express was up the Swanny too. Alternatives were wait at LHR until I got there or see if she could cadge a lift with her colleague as far as M40 services. By this time it was nearly 18:00 and her flight was holding over Lambourne.
Truck alongside me was from a Northampton outfit and driver pointed out there was an emergency services cross over tunnel about a quarter mile to north. Watched several vehicles use it and re emerge on northbound side. A very careful reverse up the hard shoulder past stationery vehicles and watching like a hawk for pedestrians who were going behind trees on verge to relieve themselves got me to cross over. A quick run to J15A then A43/M40/M25 got me to Heathrow just after 19:30.
The cross over is here: goo.gl/maps/A2J31533eXU2 Couldn’t see any evidence of CCTV so hopefully no risk of a fine for unauthorised use.
Going back up M1 traffic was queued all the way to J15 and no attempt seemed to be being made to release the trapped vehicles. No idea what time it actually cleared although it was running normally when Mrs B checked website at 21:00.
It would be unreasonable to expect Police or Traffic Wombles to travel up the queue providing personal information. I would be concerned about people trapped for 4 hours plus in that temperature, particularly with frail or vulnerable passengers. Are there any protocols for this and a ‘reasonable’ time before official action is taken to release trapped vehicles?
Views and experiences?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Jul 17 at 12:00
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First off well done for dodging road closure traffic jams for the last 20 years!
I doubt there's many hard and fast rules about when to reopen a mway or open up a central reservation to release the traffic. Probably done on a case by case basis. Expect possibly the roads to dover.
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Views?
You're not an authorised vehicle.
It's illegal to use the hard shoulder for that purpose.
What would you have done if an emergency vehicle needed to reach someone else who was suffering in the queue?
You're journey isn't 'special' and you have to accept the bad with the good on the road.
Unbelievable behaviour from someone who never stops moralising about other road users.
Pat
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>> What would you have done if an emergency vehicle needed to reach someone else who
>> was suffering in the queue?
Ducked back onto the carriageway, there was plenty of space left by other vehicles who'd used same crossover. I'd thought that one through along with pedestrians on road.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Jul 17 at 12:46
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At least 3 points and a fine if caught!
Have never done it and wouldn't unless an absolute emergency (which is what the hard shoulder is for) and that means being sick or broken down.
Don't even like to use the hard shoulder on managed motorways. I think they are dangerous.
It's too easy to hit a stationary vehicle, run over someone returning from the bushes etc.
One shouldn't gloat.....
www.thesun.co.uk/news/3844340/instant-karma-for-mercedes-driver-who-tries-to-skip-traffic-on-hard-shoulder-and-is-nailed-by-cops/
BTW, re all the holier then though stuff....politics has nothing to do with it. You get wealthy business people doing it as well, because they feel that they are more important then mere mortals!
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I agree with you Pat. We can't just chose which laws we keep or break on the basis of our own convenience.
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>> I agree with you Pat. We can't just chose which laws we keep or break
>> on the basis of our own convenience.
>>
Indeed there's more than a whiff of the 'do as I say, not as I do' moralising that seems so popular among left leaning politicians ;)
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>> I agree with you Pat. We can't just chose which laws we keep or break
>> on the basis of our own convenience.
I want to agree with that, but that is what we do every time we knowingly breach a speed limit.
But I would not have used the hard shoulder like that. I'm arrogant enough to think I could do it safely, but frankly I'd expect to get done for it, and if it did go properly wrong then one could seriously regret it.
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>>I agree with you Pat. We can't just chose which laws we keep or break on the basis of our own convenience.
+1.
But then... what if the law is an ass? Even if fuel was spilled, you could have driven over it at 10mph in perfect safety, so why was the road closed in that fashion?
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We all choose which laws we keep and which we break on a variety of criteria.
Some choices we make on the basis of our background, upbringing or core beliefs, i.e. stealing, killing etc.
Others we make on the basis of whether we want to or not, the effect on other people and how much we care about that, and, most of all in these cases, the probability of getting away with it.
Bromp, in this case, has done the same, maybe we do not agree with his choice, but which of us can honestly say we have not broken the letter of the law at some point in the last week?
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>> Bromp, in this case, has done the same, maybe we do not agree with his
>> choice, but which of us can honestly say we have not broken the letter of
>> the law at some point in the last week?
Exactly.
At least there was a point to it and no direct harm.
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>> >>I agree with you Pat. We can't just chose which laws we keep or break
>> on the basis of our own convenience.
>>
>> +1.
>>
>> But then... what if the law is an ass? Even if fuel was spilled, you
>> could have driven over it at 10mph in perfect safety, so why was the road
>> closed in that fashion?
Depends on the fuel spilt and the road surface. Diesel (specially in the heat) will lift tarmac, cars will spread the diesel down the road, not only lifting the surface and wrecking it, but raising stones for screen breakages and making it slippery dangerous for miles afterwards.
Fuel spills need to be surrounded and recovered to prevent seepage into drainage and water sources. (Hence the PCV valves at various locations)
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>> But then... what if the law is an ass? Even if fuel was spilled, you
>> could have driven over it at 10mph in perfect safety, so why was the road
>> closed in that fashion?
>>
But how many drivers would have driven over it at 10mph and how many would have worked on the theory that because they couldn't 'see' it they would just carry on?
How many would have thought they were capable of doing 30/40mph?
How many motorbikes would have safely negotiated it?
How often do you want the local authorities pursued for negligence?
If driving over it had caused an accident then sure as eggs are eggs, some smart ass lawyer would have been pursuing a compensation case...that's where we've got to these days.
The hard shoulder is there for one purpose only.....for emergencies.
Other peoples emergencies, and if you honestly think your need is greater then so be it....that's where we've got to these days.
Pat
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>> Views?
>>
A typical "I'm too important for the traffic laws to apply to me" driver. You may get a knock on your door or a letter, most of the motorway system has CCTV coverage with a zoom capability not seen online.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 9 Jul 17 at 12:53
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>>Unbelievable behaviour from someone who never stops moralising about other road users.
Its a fair point.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 9 Jul 17 at 19:52
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Maybe his time and his family is more important than that of the ones who did not choose to use the slip road? But he has commented on many topics and comes across as holier than thou at times. When it comes down to it, we're all human and have to make decisions :-)
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Out of curiosity, did you check Google maps before you set off? I find it very accurate with jams and have taken to checking it before my commute to work every day.
On my recent jaunt to Nottingham I had it running the whole way just in case of any holdups.
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Another vote for google maps, its traffic dais second to none, and very fast to update, based as it is on other concurrent google map users. Bet you would have missed it all had you gone google maps.
And yes, my pet hate is Hard shoulder abusers.
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I use google maps even on familiar, regular, journeys where there is a possibility of delays. Crowd sourced traffic is nearly instantaneous with red often going to brown as traffic lights change ahead.
Last week, half an hour before a journey home from 30 miles north of Newcastle, google offered the A19 to bypass a crash on the A1. A last minute check showed the delay to be down to 14 minutes and the A1 to be slightly quicker. I have all the UK map downloaded to the SD card and the data use is low.
Google bought Waze a while back, not sure what if any synergy there is yet. I have tried Waze but the phone gets very hot and the battery depletes even when charging.
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The week before last I had to get to Solihull for first thing. Checked Google Maps before setting out and all looked okay.
Ten minutes later when I got onto the M60 it was saying M6 closed from junction 15-14 (I think) southbound. Decided to risk M6 to J17. It was fine and got into a short queue for J17 only it took forever because everyone else pushed in at the front. Then all the A roads were obviously snarled up. Typical that I have to get somewhere once in a blue moon and the motorway was shut for a few hours :-)
As for views... you broke the law and you should have stuck it out for however long it took. If you do get done for using hard shoulder then you've yourself to blame. Although you'll probably get away with it.
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Before they built a bypass section on the M4 in South Wales, there was a section that used to drop onto A roads with roundabouts and then it became the M4 again. You can imagine this got snarled up at rush hour.
People used to often use the hard shoulder to cheat and push in on the roundabout. Except one morning a police officer had parked his car at the end.... so he then walked down the line and booked all the people illegally using the hard shoulder :-) They could not get away because he was blocking the way.
What would have happened that morning if there was an emergency mind. I think use of the hard shoulder by locals ceased after this happened a few times.
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>> As for views...
TBH I didn't expect commendations for hard shoulder abuse albeit at lesser end of scale and, unlike queue jumping, with no loss to anyone else. Was though interested in others' experiences of similar situations and time taken to release trapped vehicles.
>>If you do get done for using hard shoulder then you've
>> yourself to blame. Although you'll probably get away with it.
That was part of my risk assessment along with mitigating danger to folks out of their cars and having an escape route in case of emergency vehicles.
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>> Out of curiosity, did you check Google maps before you set off?
No but along with having water in car it's a lesson learned.
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Use a satnav with Traffic.
Even if you know the way to where you are going, it will tell you where the holdups are.
I have Waze on my phone, but never had to use it in anger IYKWIM.
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>>but knew she was suffering with feet/legs due too much walking/standing at conference in Czech Republic and would struggle with required walking
Is your wife disabled Bromp? Sorry to learn that if she is. You see people struggling with the basics of life and only occasionally pause to reflect on what a bad hand they've been dealt.
I don't think I'd cope very well with mobility issues, more or less everything that pleases me involves being able to move.
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>> Is your wife disabled Bromp? Sorry to learn that if she is.
Not at level of blue badge or mobility benefits but she struggles a bit. Suffers from plantar fasciitis affecting her heels and arthritis in her toes; anything that eases one aggravates the other. In addition her ankles had swelled with all the rushing about at and getting to/from conference in Czech Republic. Being overweight doesn't help but thirty years watching her struggle with that is one of several reasons why I get very angry with people who say weight is just a matter of willpower.
Better now but she won't be accompanying me on the 'Dordogne Horseshoe' over the Puy de Sancy etc when we're on holiday in two weeks time
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 10 Jul 17 at 21:32
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>> Truck alongside me was from a Northampton outfit and driver pointed out there was an
>> emergency services cross over tunnel about a quarter mile to north. Watched several vehicles use
>> it and re emerge on northbound side. A very careful reverse up the hard shoulder
>> past stationery vehicles and watching like a hawk for pedestrians who were going behind trees
>> on verge to relieve themselves got me to cross over.
Weren't vehicle stopped further north streaming off it?
Plus I'm amazed you were able to reverse that distance without encountering anything else on the hard shoulder.
Glad you were able to get off - the habit in the UK of completely shutting motorways and leaving people trapped for hours is just ridiculous - however I get very nervous even using a bit of hard shoulder to get to a slip road when traffic is stopped.
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Not knowing the area but why did the police not set up a proper controlled exit for all vehicles via that slip that Brompt took rather than have everyone sit there?
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>> Not knowing the area but why did the police not set up a proper controlled
>> exit for all vehicles via that slip that Brompt took rather than have everyone sit
>> there?
My guess would be that it was not a priority, and there weren't considered to be sufficient resources to do it. But it sounds like a job the Wombles could have done.
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Similar closure today due suspicious item under a bridge only for longer and both ways. No explosive or terrorism but content of package were apparently highly corrosive. Toxic waste disposal on the cheap?
Never heard any more following incident in OP so guess I got away with it. Wouldn't have used that crossover today, exit onto a closed lane being used for impromptu sport is a risk assessment fail.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 20 Sep 17 at 02:30
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>> Similar closure today due suspicious item under a bridge only for longer and both ways.
>> No explosive or terrorism but content of package were apparently highly corrosive.
Another very similar incident today left the M3 closed for most of the day.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-41371699
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There is equipment that will rapidly disrupt and / or destroy suspected IEDs. Unfortunately it also destroys evidence.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 24 Sep 17 at 09:02
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There may well be - the items were described as potentially corrosive, would they chance destroying it and potentially releasing some horrible stuff.
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>> There may well be - the items were described as potentially corrosive, would they chance
>> destroying it and potentially releasing some horrible stuff.
>>
"Poptentially corrosive" covers a multitude of sins; water is potentially corrosive.
Nevertheless this has opened up an avenue for mumerous copycat incidents; schoolboy chemistry tells us there are plenty of ways to produce a package which bubbles, hisses and emits gases from simple household products.
Expect more.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sun 24 Sep 17 at 11:35
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>>Nevertheless this has opened up an avenue for numerous copycat incidents;
>> schoolboy chemistry tells us there are plenty of ways to produce a package
>> which bubbles, hisses and emits gases from simple household products.
>>Expect more.
Oh Yes. Quick, close the M25 a plastic bottle of off white liquid found under xx bridges.
Use a large glass bottle in a bag and the whole region will clag up.
I thought we had clever remote robots and they could be delivered by air to a motor way that is closed :-)
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Classic IRA low cost tactic - warn of a bomb and hang up.
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>> I thought we had clever remote robots and they could be delivered by air to
>> a motor way that is closed :-)
>>
There are robots, I am sure you have seen them on the TV. The tracked ones have a lot more than a camera on board, they are carried in the army and navy bomb disposal lorries. Helicopter! Think of the budget, the RAF would charge by the minute! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 24 Sep 17 at 14:16
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>>Think of the budget, the RAF would charge by the minute! :-)
Think of the savings for all that pollution/fuel waste, those folks, lorries etc.
We rarely see the central barrier opened to release anyone.
Perhaps it is time to install some easily operated escape gaps especially as more often elf n safety and police demand s hours and hours of closures.
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>> Think of the savings for all that pollution/fuel waste, those folks, lorries etc.
The old, old, story. Do anything you like, but not on my budget!
>> We rarely see the central barrier opened to release anyone.
I agree, much more could be done to clear motorways, a load of wombles leaning on heir shiny 4X4s enjoying the sunshine or hiding in them if it is wet is a waste of resources.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 24 Sep 17 at 16:11
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They've put these escape barriers along the A55 - great at road works time ;-)
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It can't be difficult, a short length of dual carriageway with a roundabout at each end was resurfaced near here recently. Both ends of the central reservation was temporarily leveled and tarmacked to allow easy traffic flow into a contraflow on either side of the dual carriageway. The central reservation was reinstated on completion, a smallish job done well with minimal disruption.
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Wasn't there an experiment with some lanes one direction (probably in the morning rush) and reversing in the evening rush?
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>> Wasn't there an experiment with some lanes one direction (probably in the morning rush) and
>> reversing in the evening rush?
IIRC the A38M Aston Expressway linking M6 and Birmingham's inner ring road is/was set up that way.
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Saltash Tunnel is set up that way as well.
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I remember in the bad snows of 2010 the M8 was totally blocked one way and empty the other.
Some workies eventually got out their van armed with tools and had soon dismantled enough of the crash barrier to allow vehicles to cross over to other side!
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-41379368
An unknown flammable material, thrown from a motorway bridge, caused the closure of the M3 which led to major travel disruption, police have said.
The motorway was closed in both directions from about 04:00 BST, but had fully reopened by about 15:30.
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M3 closure: Police criticised over lack of information
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-41385139
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Lack of information to whom about what?
The Police were faced with a situation, they dealt with in a way which has been judged as correct, but they failed to explain to some t*** somewhere what they were doing and why?
STS needs to get a life.
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Bring back Police Authorities. The PCC is probably peeved that the Police won't tell him anything.
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Being British means to know when and when not to break the rules.
I would rather (and have) reversed off the motorway rather than be trapped for 8 hours with zero attempt by the authorities to mitigate this. If something came down the hard shoulder, surely one would just go up the grass verge or back into lane one.
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There is a new series on QuestTV - Freeview ch 37 - about recovery of big trucks off the road in all weathers near Toronto.
( I am very surprised that such a new series is on what is often a recycled / years old sort of channel )
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Rescue:_401
Some parts of the 401 are nine lanes in each direction and busy busy.
The attitude re getting things restored asap contrasts with our lot.
The key bit is asap asap, cannot it be done quicker. It is a vital economic requirement to get all lanes reopened in all weathers.
e.g two big rigs involved and an SUV crushed. Two hours for the police investigation then police saying hurry up and clear it all up.
If it is two or three off the road and down the embankment then how long are you going to take ??
Many crashes are sorted by which recover company arrives first.
I found it very interesting how they tackle the tasks and use multiple , sometimes two or three, massive coordinated recovery vehicles in complex combinations to drag/list the crash vehicles.
How do the clear the snow, just like they clear airport runways, Nine snow clearing machines doing all nine lanes at once.
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Motorway Closures - sooty123
