The lorry is undoubtedly in the wrong!
The Yaris is ahead and therefore must be visible at one point.
And the lorry crosses into the Yaris's lane.
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>> The lorry is undoubtedly in the wrong!
>> The Yaris is ahead and therefore must be visible at one point.
>> And the lorry crosses into the Yaris's lane.
Have you checked the full video? The lorry was there first and the Yaris sneaked up on the inside.
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The lorry is a big brother for that Toyota. When the Lorry moves, the car should have moved. Total ditherer.
I use trucks like that if they’re entering a roundabout. They keep me safe, I don't even bother trying to see what's coming.
But, it seems the Lorry was poorly positioned though and he did cross into the lane.
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Lolly driver's attention was directed towards what was coming from his right, but he should have checked his left mirror/s.
Car driver was a bit of a plonker too though ... probably a woman.
:o}
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"viewers disagree over who was at fault"
. Many viewers say the car was wrong to pull up on the inside of a large lorry
. But others think the lorry driver would have seen car if they observed better
The car was wrong for pulling up on the inside. Hopefully he/she will learn from that mistake.
The lorry driver was obviously concentrating on what traffic was coming from the RHS of him so he could pull out onto the roundabout when a gap appeared. He shouldn't have to make allowances for numpties pulling up into his blind spot.
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There's two lanes, and you think the Yaris was wrong for not guessing that the truck would also use his lane, and do it without checking its safe?
A blind spot is not a defence.
"Duh, my lorry is very big and I can't see that lane so I just drive in it anyway!".
How about we all start working on that basis; if you can't see then you are permitted to just go anyway.
There was a car there before the Yaris AND before the truck, so the truck should hardly have been surprised.
The Yaris driver was unwise, and perhaps a wimp, but he wasn't wrong.
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tinyurl.com/n4c4rn2
I know that junction well. It is a dedicated left turn only and supposedly only one lane but with a hatched area to the right.
The lorry driver is wrong. The secret at that one is to position yourself close enough to the kerb to clear it when you turn, but too close to allow anyone to come up the inside....
...that way you can give your full attention to finding a gap big enough to pull into on the dual carriageway.
Car driver was still a numpty though.
Pat
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It looks quite obviously only one lane in Pat's link whereas it appears much more like two in the Daily Mail video.
I assume that the truck was so far over to the right because he'd gone up the outside of the car before the Yaris.
Still wrong though.
Though you would have hoped that Common sense would have either kept the Yaris out of that gap or at least caused them to do it with awareness and prompt movement.
I think there's a road planner / junction designer who should probably get a slap, also.
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>> It looks quite obviously only one lane in Pat's link >>
Actually it does.
>>
>> I assume that the truck was so far over to the right because he'd gone
>> up the outside of the car before the Yaris.
>>
>> Still wrong though.
Agreed.
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Car drivers fault, road appears to be wider so people think it is automatically two lanes. Car is in the space (I think) that the HGV driver needs to use.
Happens near me, section of roundabout is wide enough for two cars but is now hatched at either side to appear as a single lane (used to be no road markings). Still you get drivers trying to squeeze down the left side resulting in them cutting you up as you exit left.
Last edited by: nice but dim on Thu 11 May 17 at 10:40
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Lorry driver completely wrong, was in the right lane, not indicating left. Perfectly acceptable to draw up in the left lane if you are turning left, the gap was so wide (a complete lane) that there was no indication the lorry driver was merely after turning room.
How anyone can see it differently is beyond me.
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>> Lorry driver completely wrong, was in the right lane, not indicating left. Perfectly acceptable to
>> draw up in the left lane if you are turning left, the gap was so
>> wide (a complete lane) that there was no indication the lorry driver was merely after
>> turning room.
>>
>> How anyone can see it differently is beyond me.
>>
Absolutely!
(Getting worried that I am agreeing with Zero rather too often lately ...)
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>> (Getting worried that I am agreeing with Zero rather too often lately ...)
The entry form to join my band of acolytes is in the post.
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You should join, you get a really nice membership card and an old Tufty Badge with Zero's face glued on it.
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>> Lorry driver completely wrong, was in the right lane, not indicating left.
We've established there was only one lane (albeit a wide one) and there was no reason to indicate left, as left is the only route that can be taken.
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>> Happens near me, section of roundabout is wide enough for two cars but is now
>> hatched at either side to appear as a single lane (used to be no road
>> markings).
>>
If you look at the road surface on the video it looks as though there are the remains of hatchlings in there as if that was once a single lane as well.
Tend to agree with some others on here, lorry driver was in the wrong and did not appear to be indicating but the car driver should have been aware of the possibilities and should not have gone up the inside.
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Commerdriver said: "..... it looks as though there are the remains of hatchlings in there."
This must really be a dangerous junction - first young birds are killed and now a Yaris is squashed.
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>> The car was wrong for pulling up on the inside. Hopefully he/she will learn from
>> that mistake.
>>
Eh? It's a different lane ...
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I don't care who was right or wrong, he (or she) who puts their car or anything anongside a turning lorry wants their head reading.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 11 May 17 at 12:03
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It's not a roundabout, it's a slip road onto a dual carriageway. On a roundabout it MAY be feasible to go up nearside of a truck that's turning right but doing so depends on space and an escape route it it goes tiztup.
Doing so joining a dual carriageway is asking for trouble. In fact I wonder if the Yaris driver was mistaken/disorientated and though it was a roundabout, hence the hesitation.
Truck driver's fault though for failure to check blindspot.
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It's a dedicated left turn there so there was no need for any indication by either driver.
Lorry drivers fault is failing to shut the door and letting it happen...bet he won't do it again.
Pat
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>> Truck driver's fault though for failure to check blindspot.
>>
Could you explain how to check a lorries blind spots with out getting out and walking around it?
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>> Could you explain how to check a lorries blind spots with out getting out and
>> walking around it?
Surely the spot the Yaris was hiding in would be covered by a proper look at well adjusted mirrors.
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>> Surely the spot the Yaris was hiding in would be covered by a proper look
>> at well adjusted mirrors.
It wouldn't have been a blindspot if the lorry driver could have seen the Yaris in his mirrors.
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>> It wouldn't have been a blindspot if the lorry driver could have seen the Yaris
>> in his mirrors.
Not even those designated as blind spot mirrors?
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>> >> Truck driver's fault though for failure to check blindspot.
>> >>
>>
>> Could you explain how to check a lorries blind spots with out getting out and
>> walking around it?
Perhaps you can't.
Are you saying though, that therefore the truck driver is not at fault if its a genuine blind spot. He can just assume there is nothing in that spot and drive on that assumption?
That the onus is upon whoever enters that blind spot to know that it is one and not be in it?
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>> He can just assume there is nothing in that spot and drive on that assumption?
Absolutely so.
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>> >> He can just assume there is nothing in that spot and drive on that
>> assumption?
>>
>> Absolutely so.
>>
You know what they say about assumptions.
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>>That the onus is upon whoever enters that blind spot to know that it is one and not be in it? <<
I'm more interested in this bit.
It will never happen, but if it were the case there would be far less accidents, deaths and court cases.
It's called defensive driving, self preservation or even common sense.
Sadly some of us get it, others never will.
Pat
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>> I don't care who was right or wrong, he (or she) who puts their car
>> or anything alongside a turning lorry wants their head reading.
>>
Wise words from an old salt. Don't sail too close to a battleship even if you do in theory have priority.
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Poor driving by both.
Had I got into that situation, which I wouldn't, (just look at the plan view of that junction, link below) I would have been off like a jackrabbit when the lorry started rolling.
goo.gl/FTlgpg
Unusual circs though. The presence of the first car, and the position the lorry took up relative to it, sucked the second car driver into going up the inside.
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Watching the video it looks like a roundabout, so the blame falls firmly at the hands of the lorry driver for being in the right-hand lane whilst turning left. Moreover, the car is *in front of* the lorry when it is hit.
But. Anybody who thinks that isn't in possession of all the facts.
Because who (in their right mind) creeps up on the inside of a left-turning lorry? It's got to be a left-turning lorry as that's the only way it can go. Idiot. Even Manatee's bright idea of getting off "like a jackrabbit when the lorry start[s] rolling" could leave you as mangled metal.
BUT. Why is the lorry there in the first place? Apparently the lorry crept up on the car that was there first in order to go on the outside. So the lorry is in the wrong place and should have expected a second car to follow up behind the first.
Dangerous junction, mostly. Some hatchlings (sic) would sort it.
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mega SQ
>> Dangerous junction, mostly. Some hatchlings (sic) would sort it.
>>
Yup, agree with all that.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 12 May 17 at 02:13
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I agree with most of it apart from this.
If you arrive at a left sweeping Give Way sign in a lorry positioned as you would in a car, you have no vision whatsoever of what is coming and have to pull out completely blind.
After leaning forward in your seat, restrained by a seat belt and find you still have no vision because of the solid wall of the cab behind the side window, you never, ever repeat that schoolboy error again.
You have to arrive at the stop line with the cab almost straight.
As I said earlier, he should do what we all do.
Position your trailer wheels too close to the kerb for anything (cyclists included) to get through and then position the cab straight so has full vision to pull out into fast moving traffic. without worrying about his nearside.
I've negotiated this junction many times in an artic, and no way would I ever put myself in that position.
Pat
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Yes, the car driver was a numpty for positioning himself there.
But, he was stationary when hit. How many traffic offences can you commit whilst stationary ?
Parking, but not much else.
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Dont forget, its a L/H drive lorry, and the car is at one time directly in front of him and very visible.
I surmise that the trucker saw the car, but because its L/H drive vision to his right, where the traffic is coming from, was restricted.
So the trucker moved off when he saw a gap, constantly looking right, assuming the Yaris had gone. The Yaris hadn't gone because he was a numpty, and when the trucker glanced left the Yaris wasn't visible, by that time it was tucking under his blind spot.
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I'm not sure whether it's LHD or not but I do know it has an English registration plate so I doubt it.
Pat
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Ah yes so it does, didn't se that till i viewed it in full screen
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 11 May 17 at 16:07
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>> Ah yes so it does, didn't se that till i viewed it in full screen
>>
That's what the trucker said!
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Perhaps something like this would help...
www.durite.co.uk/ItemDetails/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=087010&SingleResultCriteria=087010
On the M25 last night and a HGV (UK plates) pulled out on me. It happens all too often and they don't seem to care.
Before anyone comments that I should have been in lane 3 and not lane 2 when passing it or that I should have been trying to get past it quicker, I was travelling at the speed limit and was along side it when it decided to pull out with indication at the same time as the manoeuvre! There was traffic in lane 3 so couldn't go there.
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>> Before anyone comments that I should have
>>
>>
>>
Maybe not be alongside a lorry without an escape route. You sound like a man without a plan.
As you are promoting blind spot devices I assume a guilty conscience.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 11 May 17 at 18:30
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Perhaps the driving test etc would be better off teaching folks the B obvious that most lorries are much bigger than cars and tend to squash them if they collide ?
As others have said try to give them extra space, think ahead, retain an escape path , do not loiter alongside them ( especially LH drive versions).
Oh sorry, I forgot, it is more important on the driving test to point out the location of the oil dip stick ( if the car has one).:-((
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>> Oh sorry, I forgot, it is more important on the driving test to point out
>> the location of the oil dip stick ( if the car has one).:-((
>>
Usually found in the drivers seat. :-)
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In this day and age, how difficult is to fit cameras on other side of a lorry to eliminate blind spot?
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Lorry drivers only have one set of eyes, they can only either look where they are going or look into a mirror or CCTV screen showing multiple cameras. You can prioritize but not see all or even some of them at the same time. Also their phone and satnav, road signs, speed limit signs and dashboard instruments also need some attention. Information overload can be counter productive.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 12 May 17 at 19:30
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Info overload IS counter productive.
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Just suppose that the lorry driver was in the wrong, and should have seen the car, and waited for the car to get clear.
Then what? Is he supposed to wait indefinitely while everyone else at a busy junction overtakes him on the left?
Is that a new traffic rule - you can overtake on the left, and then the other vehicle has to give way or stop for you?
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>> Just suppose that the lorry driver was in the wrong, and should have seen the
>> car, and waited for the car to get clear.
>> Then what? Is he supposed to wait indefinitely while everyone else at a busy junction
>> overtakes him on the left?
The car driver was a donkey - he was following the lorry, it was going to join the major road, he was behind it, he should have stayed behind it.
He got well in front of the lorry at one point, and the lorry driver appeared to have had a decent opportunity to see him, even if he hadn't seen him coming before he went into any blind spot. Had he done so, left indicator, lock on and creep forward would have been enough to prevent a stream of followers up the inside.
Not that it was necessary - the driver of the camera car had worked it out and was waiting for the lorry to clear.
We know lorries need some space on the inside to get the trailer round, we know it was a compulsory left turn, but when a vehicle has to do that it always make sense to indicate that you are going to use the space on your left.
On balance the car driver contributed most to the accident IMO, but it was one of those incidents that either driver could have avoided. The lorry driver could have seen the car approaching on the inside and as Pat implies, leaving 8 or 10 feet on the inside of the lorry instead of 15 or 20 would probably have deterred the undertake. Car driver was probably on auto-pilot. If I had been either of those drivers I think I would be kicking myself.
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>>He got well in front of the lorry at one point
That's the bit that looks odd and makes me think he might have been lost/disoriented.
Accident site was Shackleton Way, a left turn only egress from the Magna Park logistics complex onto the A4303. The adjacent exit via Hunter Boulevard joins the main road at a roundabout. If he'd pulled alongside the lorry expecting a roundabout and found a dual carriageway that might account for the hesitation.
Plenty examples in aviation of pilots on taxiway Alpha proceeding under impression they're on adjacent Bravo. GAtwick's back up runway (normally a taxiway) is a hotspot for this.
And of course there's the BA 747 driver who demolished a terminal:
avherald.com/h?article=46d6e18c
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Not only cyclists....... - Hard Cheese
