UBER have apparently written code for iPhones which allow them to read the serial number and thumbprint data against Apples developer rules.
They have even gone to the extent of switching the functionality off when they detect a phone is at Apples headquarters.
UBER also uses software called "Greyball" which allegedly detects law enforcement trying to book a ride (so that they can allegedly avoid regulation etc).
Their business practice of deliberately ignoring local laws etc (using autonomous cars with out permission is just one example) suggests that this company has no regard for the law and therefore the people of the areas they work in. If there was a accident involving a UBER car or an incident with a UBER driver I wonder what the level of support received from UBER would really be.
They have also been accused of showing a different fare to drivers and passengers and pocketing the difference.
Another company that I will be adding to my don't use list.
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Living, as I do, in the depths of rural France I had never crossed paths with Uber until - I think - the other day. We were sitting in the sun on the terrasse of a station buffet in a large town when we noticed a couple with a mountain of luggage emerge from the station and stand on the pavement nearby, nowhere near the taxi rank. A while after using a mobile phone a ratty, filthy old Skoda turned up. The driver obviously wasn't family and there followed a long debate about destination and directions. The couple were then packed into the too small car with their luggage filling the boot and piled inside with them as well.
I fully accept that the development of technology means things like Uber and Rbnb are inevitable but, for the sake of a few euros, that's no way to travel.
The pursuit of and inevitability of technology is turning us into second class citizens.
I may, of course, have misread the situation entirely but it's worth the rant.
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When I was last in the US lots of people, who i was travelling with, used them. No issues at all.
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>>a ratty, filthy old Skoda turned up
Not Uber. Uber vehicles must be less than 8 years old and have no cosmetic damage. In reality most are much newer.
>>a long debate about destination and directions.
Not Uber. Uber know where you're going; they know everything, remember... (see OP).
Probably some local hire company.
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Maybe I was wrong about the 'old'. Almost all privately-owned cars in France are ratty and filthy. By contrast the vehicles of local hire firms are generally smart and well-kept, partly because a lot of their lives are spent on hospital transport work for the health service.
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>>UBER also uses software called "Greyball" which allegedly detects law enforcement trying to book a ride (so that they can allegedly avoid regulation etc).
Any facts to back this up? How do they know my cousin is a copper?
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"Any facts to back this up? How do they know my cousin is a copper?"
'Greyball collects in-app data to identify and target certain individuals, like law enforcement officers. If those people try hailing an Uber, the app will either display that no cars are available or show a mock-up of the app with fake Uber cars.
The idea: ensure targeted individuals can't catch a ride.
"This program denies ride requests to fraudulent users who are violating our terms of service -- whether that's people aiming to physically harm drivers, competitors looking to disrupt our operations, or opponents who collude with officials on secret 'stings' meant to entrap drivers," an Uber spokeswoman wrote in an email.
In cities where Uber isn't legal, authorities sometimes put together sting operations in which they hire Ubers and then ticket drivers and impound cars. As part of the operations, police often make continuous attempts to hail Uber cars, which is how Greyball targets them.'
(from www.cnet.com/news/uber-uses-secret-tool-to-deceive-authorities-worldwide/ )
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 25 Apr 17 at 12:54
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"Give it a miss" is an increasingly difficult option. In Edinburgh before Christmas I found only two or three cab firms listed in Yellow Pages and at 5.30 in the evening none was answering their phone. We ended up taking the bus. Other members of our group got Uber no problem.
I think technology, and the upcoming generations, will increasingly see traditional cabs as anachronistic. Uber or something like it will be the norm.
As for the standards debate, I don't find the local traditional taxi firms in our Southern England market town very high.
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>> "Give it a miss" is an increasingly difficult option
May not be that difficult. I have never used UBER till date.
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In US at moment.
On Monday we went to San Antonio zoo, a social event which was part of conference Mrs B is attending.
Outwards we took a cab from hotel rank. Traffic was very heavy because it's Fiesta week but driver, who's name and appearance suggested he was from NE Africa, seemed uncertain of route. Eventually dropped us in car park of SA waterworks company, half a mile from zoo, and told us in halting English we'd need to walk from there. Fare was $15 and some cents but he wouldn't accept a $20 bill, eventually took just the $15.
Later, while Mrs B and colleague were trying to phone for a cab back I downloaded the Uber app. Very simple apart from getting it to take postcode associated with my credit card; needed it entered with no spaces - not uncommon on websites. Ordered a car and in seconds had a message that Lettricia in a Hyudai licence plate xxxx nnn would be outside shortly. She was indeed. Lovely chatty youngster who had cousins in London and explained all about the fiesta. Only criticism was her driving with SatNav on her knee. Fare was $7.66.
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The fare will have been lower because UBER is still subsidising taxi fares. That's why they keep spending more money than they make and have heavy losses. I wonder when they will price journeys as they should be? They can't keep spending investors' money like this surely.
Our local taxi company has a web app. If you order a taxi with that or use a mobile phone for a call, when the taxi is arriving you get a text to tell you and what car make/model/colour and the reg. I think that's fairly common these days.
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And nobody checks the drivers insurance, there are no checks on the safety of the car, no checks on the competence of the driver, etc. etc.
I'm with RTJ, I use the taxi apps, which in my case is "Easy Taxi". Shows me a map indicating where all the taxis currently are, suggests a taxi, the driver confirms, I receive ETA and taxi & driver details, taxi phones/texts when he arrives if I'm not at the kerbside, I can pay via the app or in cash, and I know the local authorities are at least taking some care of the safety and legality of the vehicle and driver.
Nobody seems to consider, how can UBER supply a superior service for less? Is this because taxi drivers are normally wealthy and so UBER reduce the profits? Or more obviously that many overheads are missing and that market manipulation takes place?
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My view is that when the competition has gone they will ramp up the prices.
In some areas of the USA they are even taking over patient transport type roles as they are cheaper than buses at the moment!
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And then some country changes legislation and UBER pulls out and drivers lose a living. They don't lose jobs because UBER does not employ them.
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I am a very infrequent user but I like Uber. I don't know enough about their business practices to decide whether they are any worse than Sports Direct, Amazon, Nike, Starbucks etc or whether their morals are any higher than the high street banks have been over the years!!
I know they've had some bad press and I also know that the drivers I've spoken to (a very very small sample) are all quite happy with Uber as their employer. I do hope that they are doing stuff "right" like insurance and safety etc.
I like the app, I like the service, I like that they are shaking up the old guard and I wish them every success.
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>>I don't know enough about their business practices to decide whether they are any worse than Sports Direct, Amazon, Nike, Starbucks etc or whether their morals are any higher than the high street banks have been over the years!!
No better, no worse.
And, as you say, the old guard desperately needed shaking up.
But the important thing is not to be naive about it, or to get carried along with blind faith. And the worrying thing about Uber, what gives them so much power, is not Uber itself, rather it is the way people seem to be regarding it. Whether that is with the malevolence of the existing taxi drivers or the blind worshipful faith of many of its users - both are unwarranted.
And you do need to consider whether you think the lack of regulation will have any impact on your safety or security.
I do have some sympathy with the Uber drivers though, despite them being their own worst enemies. They seem to judge their business by more more than fuel in vs. money out.
No consideration of total cost or lack of predictability. And there I do think Uber should be clearer and more supportive.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 25 Apr 17 at 21:19
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Its the running wild over existing regulations that also causes concern. Thank goodness they are only a taxi company. If they were an airline or nuclear power station operator then there would be real concern. Lets hope they don't win a test case that sets a really dangerous precedent regarding regulation that allows something dangerous to happen in a industry where it really matters.
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>>Its the running wild over existing regulations
Regulations. Don't you think we could do with rather fewer of them?
What worries me is the likelihood that they completely monopolise the market putting all others out of business and then bump prices up - once they're providing school bus services etc. etc. so councils are stuffed.
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>> What worries me is the likelihood that they completely monopolise the market putting all others out of business and then bump prices up
A bit like letting people build a supermarket just outside a functioning small market town with a full range of retailers on its high street?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 26 Apr 17 at 12:57
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>> A bit like letting people build a supermarket just outside a functioning small market town
>> with a full range of retailers on its high street?
If that is what the customer wants, then as with taxis I don't see you have very much choice.
But you shouldn't allow lower regulation and cheaper operation to the newbie, and you should try to help the customer understand what he's getting now and likely to get in the future.
A forlorn hope, I understand.
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>> If that is what the customer wants, then as with taxis I don't see you have very much choice.
Quite, and that's the Terry Leahy argument - if Tesco was doin a bad thingg, customers wouldn't shop there. But he knew darn well that it only need a modest minority of customers to abandon the local baker, butcher, grocer and greengrocer to result in their closure - then everybody would go to the supermarket.
It are a conundrum.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 26 Apr 17 at 12:57
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>> >> If that is what the customer wants, then as with taxis I don't see
>> you have very much choice.
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>> Quite, and that's the Terry Leahy argument - if Tesco was doin a bad thingg,
>> customers wouldn't shop there. But he knew darn well that it only need a modest
>> minority of customers to abandon the local baker, butcher, grocer and greengrocer to result in
>> their closure - then everybody would go to the supermarket.
Until Tesco saturated the market and shopper numbers per store fell through the floor.
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>> I do have some sympathy with the Uber drivers though, despite them being their own
>> worst enemies. They seem to judge their business by more more than fuel in vs.
>> money out.
>>
>> No consideration of total cost or lack of predictability. And there I do think Uber
>> should be clearer and more supportive.
>>
The really stupid thing on the part of the drivers, is that Uber's aim is to have driverless cars.
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Isn't that the aim for all road (and rail) transport? People have to earn a living where they can, while they can...
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Deliberately selectively quoting are we, for some reason?
From the self-same article...
As one man said "'It's Saturday night. The system is automated"
As Uber said "'We suspended dynamic pricing as soon as we heard about the incident, as we did previously with Westminster and Manchester'
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Looks like someone in Uber made a clerical error. Or something sinister. or something in between. Really a bit of a non-story for a national newspaper though, unless they are grinding an axe.
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It's the Guardian, so there is bound to be some sharpening going on.
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>> It's the Guardian, so there is bound to be some sharpening going on.
I think the complainant's issue wasn't so much the error itself as getting somebody in Uber to action his complaint. Theme in most of the stories featuring the paper's 'Consumer Champions' is that it's amazing how quickly press interest unblocks communication channels.
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UBER I will give it a miss - Mike Hannon
