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Probably the current range of Minis - anything before 2000 was pants.
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The subject is British cars, the current Mini is a BMW in disguise. Thread drift is OK, but in the second post?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 20 Apr 17 at 14:29
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I don't see how anyone in their right mind could put a glorified go-kart ahead of something like an Escort or a Cortina.
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The Cortina and Escort for that matter were far too up market for many. The Mini was a step up from the motor bike and sidecar, in its day it was a revolutionary design.
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The mini changed the thinking of every car maker in most of the world. It was a work of genius. Not a good car tho, far too many compromises and bad engineering.
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"with each member asked to pick their top 10 based on sales, groundbreaking design and unbeatable performance"
So the Mini won because of its performance? Its sales?
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It sold 5.5ish million and won a few rallies so not too shabby. :-)
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I got to fiddle about and road test an awful lot of minis from '78 - '92. Coopers too.
I never liked the damn things, or the Metro come to that, although MG turbo version used to put a smile upon my face.
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I always quite liked the Metro, especially the model that came out after they ditched the decrepit A Series engine and gears-in-the-sump arrangement.
My vote for the best UK car would be the Series 1 or 2 Landrover.
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My vote for the best British car would be the Rover P6, of which I owned 2 of, both V8 3500 autos.
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I've got through a lot of cars and tried to remember/count them all recently, but I'm not sure I got them all. Anyway, it's more than 40 but less than 50.
Fondest memories though, are for my MG Midget and my Land Rover 90. Neither were by any stretch perfect, but both felt just so right for what they were supposed to be and do.
That of course may be a rose tinted retrospective.
;-)
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Tis quite amazing just how many cars some of us have gone through over the years.
I'm up to about 45/6, legacylad is around about the same number - we must be complete and utter CarCrazy!
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And yet, I've a friend, we've known each other since our teenage years, who is still only on his third car despite never having been without one since he passed his test at 17. First one was an Escort estate which seemed to go on forever, followed by a Renault estate which also did remarkably well, and his current car which is a Kia estate of some kind which he's had a good while now.
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>>I've a friend, we've known each other since our teenage years, who is still only on his third car despite never having been without one since he passed his test
Clearly a 'gets me from A to B' merchant.
:}
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>> I've got through a lot of cars and tried to remember/count them all recently
I just quickly typed in all the ones I could easily remember and it came to 59. And no doubt I;ll now spend the next few days going "oh, and then there was...."
And certainly that excludes the cars I had over a 5 or so year period in the US when they were just supplied for me at various offices.
I hated the Allegro and the Chysler Alpine. Pretty much everything else I enjoyed at the time, even if they look a bit sad or rubbish in retrospect.
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Oh, make that a total of 60 and the 3rd Rubbish car I had was a Volkswagen Polo (or similar) estate in the Amazon with no electrics. None at all. And I drive that for almost a year.
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>> although MG turbo
>> version used to put a smile upon my face.
>>
I had one of those, did 750 + miles in a day a couple of times across Europe ...
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I guess that would explain why you think a 1 series is big enough. Are you very good at yoga?
;-)
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>> I guess that would explain why you think a 1 series is big enough. Are
>> you very good at yoga?
I've just completed helping the re-build of an Austin 7. Determined to drive the thing after putting so much effort into it, I managed to origami my sixty-odd-year old, sixteen stone, six foot frame into it and even got my size twelves on the pedals - and stalled it!
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Did you get the Jowett running Tubby ? Mine is now starting so I'm going to put the cooling system on her tomorrow and maybe connect the propshaft if I've got time from pandering to SWM's demands.
Should be able to insure it soon...no MOT of course. Some local shows booked.
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>>Did you get the Jowett running Tubby ?
It was running, just squirting oil out of every orifice. Found it was the crankcase breather (PCV), a leather flap valve that allowed air out when the pistons came to BDC and closed as the pistons went t'other way. Twin cylinder, horizontally opposed jobby.
Haven't found the correct carb yet, but it's running well enough on the one on it.
I can't even get in the passenger seat of that one.
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Not the most compatible with motoring comfort. Speshly us creakies. Later twins have a thin steel star shaped flap to do the breather's job. Glad it's running well enough.
Insured the Javelin on-line today with Footman James. £82 fully comp from May 5th. I'll tax it when Askmid shows it and that'll give me the impetus to finish all the odd jobs before the first show. Might put new front tyres on..about £80 each from Great Longstone in the High Peak. We'll make it a trip out and have lunch at the Monsall Head.
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>> I guess that would explain why you think a 1 series is big enough. Are
>> you very good at yoga?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
More than big enough, I am on my own in it most of the time and it's an ideal size though it can take five people and a dog if needs be, and very quickly if needs be ...
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Original Mini without a doubt.
Incredible to drive compared with the competition of the day, tiny light pedals with short travel, light twirly steering, tons of grip, safe exploitable handling, and felt quick and lively with a mere 55bhp and barely sub-20s 0-60 in my old 1962 997 Cooper.
Lots that could have been improved from an engineering perspective, most of which never was, but the concept was transformational.
I have never captured that feeling again, partly due of course to being more inured to automotive novelty, but I am quite certain that if I could drive that car now I would enjoy it far more than the amazing Civic Type R that I tried out last year.
The nearest I have come to the Mini was a Mk1 Golf GTI - non-qualifying as not British. I have driven later versions, but the better they get the more they seem to lose the purity of that feeling, they are somehow numbing, too refined.
I get my driving pleasure now from being as good and safe as I can, not from the cars - although I still get a different level of enjoyment from the MX5 compared with the big, numb, Outlander.
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Agree with everything Manatee said. Nothing drives quite like an original Mini.
Closest I got was a phase 1 Peugeot 106 XSi. Same lack of inertia (900kg), same direct, kart-like steering, same comically tiny pedal box, same hopeless lack of decorum on the motorway. :-)
Still felt like a pudding relative to the Mini, albeit less of one than anything else I've driven.
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Nearest "modern" thing I've found that gives a similar drive to an original Mini is my son's 2010 Aygo. Skinny tyres, wheels at each corner, tiny but willing engine, turns in like a housefly. It is of course a bit more cosseting with aircon, Bluetooth, power steering and electric windows. :-)
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A friend of mine has an original Mini Cooper.
Its an utter PITA to drive. Heavy steering, cramped, uncomfortable, unwieldy in corners and slow. Oh so slow. Noisy, shaky and bumpy.
I drive it from time to time. I usually leap into it with enthusiasm sure that I must get one for myself.
It takes about 10 minutes for me to remember why that would be a very dumb idea. b***** awful things.
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>>
>>
>> It takes about 10 minutes for me to remember why that would be a very
>> dumb idea. b***** awful things.
>>
Agreed, I never liked them. And those God awful sliding windows...
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I think your trouble is you are looking at the car out of context. It was revolutionary in its day which was before some of you were born.
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The sliding windows were an essential part of the design, as soon as windup windows and door cards came in, the interior space and storage was decreased.
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>> I think your trouble is you are looking at the car out of context. It
>> was revolutionary in its day which was before some of you were born.
I don't disagree, but the assessment of the Mini should be at best that it WAS a good car in its day. By today's standards its utterly awful.
And the last time I drove one was about 3 or 4 weeks ago.
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>> A friend of mine has an original Mini Cooper.
>>
>> Its an utter PITA to drive. Heavy steering, cramped, uncomfortable, unwieldy in corners and slow.
>> Oh so slow. Noisy, shaky and bumpy.
Rose tinted memory of course, but the steering on mine wasn't heavy on the move despite widened rims and soft 'rally' tyres. Heavy going from lock to lock when manoeuvring maybe but we were used to it. The boss would complain now but she never did then when she went to work in it every day.
I would probably find it cramped and uncomfortable too now but then, as a 23 year old whippet, that and the jouncing were not noticeable. Slow, yes - glacially so by today's standards, but nothing could live with it in a bend on those sticky tyres.
The wisest thing though might be not to go back.
DP's mention of Peugeots reminded me of the 205GTI, Never owned one but drove a new one when they came out and was amazed. Someone I know has a minter that he says he will never sell.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 22 Apr 17 at 17:39
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>> DP's mention of Peugeots reminded me of the 205GTI, Never owned one but drove a
>> new one when they came out and was amazed.
I had the 1.7 diesel version for a while. Nothing like GTi in a straight line but it was a delight to hussle through lanes.
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I owned several 306s, their suspension had an excellent blend of comfort and handling.
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>> I owned several 306s, their suspension had an excellent blend of comfort and handling.
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I had use of one a few years ago. The interior was awful, I hated sitting in it as it was so depressing.
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>>I had use of one a few years ago. The interior was awful, I hated sitting in it as it was so depressing.
Same here, turbo diesel. It went well when y'all put the pedal to the metal, but I never bonded with the thing.
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>> Nearest "modern" thing I've found that gives a similar drive to an original Mini is
>> my son's 2010 Aygo.
>>
How is Master D'Hills getting on with his lessons, Runfer?
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Doing fine thanks, I think he'd pass the test I took. Harder now though I feel.
Odd isn't it, my father was old enough never to have had to take a test to get a licence. He just bought one from the post office and taught himself after a morning of his father showing him the basics. Never had an accident or got a ticket for anything. I took my test in 1976 after a few lessons from my dad and a block of 6 from BSM, and while I can't claim the no ticket ever thing, I've never ( so far ) had an accident in the 41 years since.
I strongly suspect that driving isn't actually all that hard, but that passing a modern test seems to be.
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Never mind SatNav in the test, they ought to make them sit through 4 hours of Russian Crashes on big screen.
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>> I strongly suspect that driving isn't actually all that hard, but that passing a modern
>> test seems to be.
>>
I doubt if I would pass a modern test without some serious thought and a bit of study.
I believe the key to driving is observation, without that nothing else is effective. I know most people are addicted to being connected to the world and are brilliant multi taskers but there are too many distractions within cars.
One of the reasons the submarine service (and maybe the navy in general) has a recruiting problem is there is no 24/7 internet (none at all submarines). The youngsters brought up on a connected life don't like that!
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>>One of the reasons the submarine service (and maybe the navy in general) has a
>> recruiting problem is there is no 24/7 internet (none at all submarines). The youngsters >>brought up on a connected life don't like that!
>>
I believe the problem with recruiting for the armed services and perhaps specialist divisions of the police, such as the armed sections is that stuff can come back to bite you for many years after the individuals service has finished. Think Orgreave, Hillsborough, Northern Ireland etc.
Actions that were taken, perhaps with the best intentions in the heat of the moment can rebound.
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I agree, but being hung out to dry has always been a problem, more so now with cameras everywhere and the ambulance chasing lawyers. I would not join today's armed forces. In my day the pension trap was being demoted at a critical time and receiving a reduced pension.
The son of a friend, who is a submariner, told me of the lack of internet access problem.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Apr 17 at 09:09
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>> In my day the pension trap was being demoted at a critical time and
>> receiving a reduced pension.
That's interesting.
I wasn't in the Navy, but was never aware of anyone being demoted, other than for disciplinary reasons, either from a substantive or an acting paid rank.
Local acting unpaid ranks were another matter entirely, and could easily be lost on posting to a new unit, etc.
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>> >> In my day the pension trap was being demoted at a critical time and
>> >> receiving a reduced pension.
>>
>> That's interesting.
Demotion could be due to a serious disciplinary or a very expensive or catastrophic error. Also beware of buck shifting from above!
The quickest way to get demoted in a submarine is to make a safety related error and not immediately report it.
Reporting it will not result in any punishment.
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I rather think that the idea of being in a steel box under the ocean for months on end with a nuclear reactor and some nuclear missiles for company would have limited appeal with or without the internet. Not sure what the profile of someone seeking that job is but the can't be many about.
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The time in a fancy sewer pipe is usually done in two year periods. Actual time at sea is a proportion of that. And even less now the cold war has calmed down a bit. I used to do about four months a year at sea when I was submarine crew, none or a few days a year when I was driving a desk.
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> One of the reasons the submarine service (and maybe the navy in general) has a
>> recruiting problem is there is no 24/7 internet (none at all submarines). The youngsters brought
>> up on a connected life don't like that!
>>
I believe it's more of a retention rather than recruitment issue. Some were offered (i think) £50k for 3 years more in submarines. I know the navy had to borrow engineers from the us coast guard as they were so short.
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>>One of the reasons the submarine service (and maybe the navy in general) has a recruiting problem is there is no 24/7 internet
Are you serious? If that's true that is ridiculous.
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>> Are you serious? If that's true that is ridiculous.
>>
Obviously there are many reasons.
So are the people with phones welded to their hands completely oblivious to the real world surrounding them.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Apr 17 at 14:34
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>> Are you serious? If that's true that is ridiculous.
Maybe not so.. In the old days there was a significant pay difference to train for and get to wear the dolphins badge on your uniform. Plus the navy had good family and social support structure on shore for your family while you were away.
Both have dissipated, so how would you fancy being away for months at a time, with little or no contact with your family?
thats about three months if you are on a boomer, and up to 9 months on an SSN.
Working away from home is much easier when you have Skype, email, Facebook etc
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 23 Apr 17 at 17:19
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It won't so much stop people from joining but it may well be one of the reasons that they leave. They'll be all wide eyed and keen on joining up but when that novelty wears off they'll be looking at their conditions of service and what they are being asked to do in return. Poor communications back home will not just affect them but the family back home. When they need to get in touch and they can't it affects their relationship. Keeping the family back home is as important now as keeping those in happy.
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>> >>One of the reasons the submarine service (and maybe the navy in general) has a
>> recruiting problem is there is no 24/7 internet
>>
>> Are you serious? If that's true that is ridiculous.
>>
What's ridiculous? That the lack internet deters recruits, or that there is no internet on subs?
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You wont get internet on a SSBN or sure, they do not emit any kind of electronic signal while operational.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 23 Apr 17 at 17:30
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>> You wont get internet on a SSBN or sure, they do not emit any kind
>> of electronic signal while operational.
That applies to any submarine.
You mentioned welfare support, one I had to sort out was a young newly married lad who went to sea for a couple of months. Naively he left his equally young wife his bank card for access to his bank account for routine expenses like food. She went to the bank for money and they confiscated the card as it was not hers. The bank would not speak to me about the problem so it was sorted in house with an unofficial loan.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 23 Apr 17 at 17:55
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>> Doing fine thanks, I think he'd pass the test I took. Harder now though I
>> feel.
>>
Should be much harder still I feel, I am sure your lad is fine though thete are too many people on the road with completely the wrong attitude and/or no idea how a car works, which are the driven wheels, what ABS is and how it works etc etc ...
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Fortunately, he's quite interested in cars and how they work, forever asking me questions about it. He says that he doesn't just want to learn how to pass his test, but wants to learn how to drive well. I'll do my best to help him achieve that with whatever ( albeit layman's knowledge ) I can pass on to him.
He's a bit of a perfectionist with other things in life such as learning musical instruments and his mountain biking skills etc so I think he'll want to apply the same attitude to driving.
We will see.
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In a valiant effort to get this thread back and speaking as someone who has driven everything from a single cylinder diesel French voiturette to a Lamborghini Countach and having owned more than 50 motors, all paid for with my own money...
Rover P6 V8.
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What is the best British car of all time? - R.P.
