I have been turning my idle stop off for a couple of weeks, it has made no difference to my fuel consumption other than it has improved slightly (warmer weather?). I believe the idle stop is designed to assist Honda with statuary testing results rather than do the owner any good. I now only turn on the idle stop if I am in heavy traffic where the car will be stopped for more than 2 minutes. This makes normal driving with short stops far more pleasant and is a lot easier on the car.
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We are making some preliminary investigations into our next car. Nothing wrong with what we've got, a 2007 Focus which has been totally reliable. But we fancy a change, probably another Ford. One of the essentials is that we can turn off the stop-start feature preferably permanently but at least at the start of each journey. We also don't want other unnecessary clutter such as electric handbrakes. No-one will convince me that these stop-start features don't place additional strain on the components, certainly not something we want as we tend to keep our cars a while. Stop-start has always existed anyway but it involves the driver using their brain and a bit of common sense, which I know for some motorists is where the problem lies.
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Add ruddy blinding DRL's to that crap too. What are they all about?
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It depends on the car. I had a diesel 320d auto, and the Stop Start was really annoying. The engine would stop and start with an undignified jolt, and never seemed to quite be quick enough on the start to avoid a delay when you wanted to move off. On the M140i, the engine starts and stops with no perceptible vibration or jolt, and is much quicker to restart. Lifting off the brake pedal and moving your foot onto the throttle gives enough time for the engine to be ready to go.
I suspect it makes the square root of naff all difference to real world economy, but helps in the official CO2 / MPG testing somehow.
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If it reduces city centre pollution even slightly surelyl it must be worthwhile.
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>> Add ruddy blinding DRL's to that crap too. What are they all about?
>>
See and be seen? :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 13 Apr 17 at 20:23
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>>> Add ruddy blinding DRL's to that crap too. What are they all about?
>
>See and be seen? :-)
They may add to "be seen", but I don't think they add much to "see".
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>> >> Add ruddy blinding DRL's to that crap too. What are they all about?
>> >>
>>
>> See and be seen? :-)
>>
More, "Look at me I got a new car" IMO.
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I was surprised to discover that our 2016MY Outlander auto does not have stop start even though the manual version does. Perhaps the 'traditional' Jatco auto is incompatible with it.
Pleased (sort of) after 1500 miles that fuel economy has reached 41.5mpg on the last tank full (offical combined figure 48.7). That's a darn sight nearer than its manual predecessor got. I admit that out of 427 miles that included a 200 mile return trip to Bath and 125 miles return to Cambridge. The computed economy seems about right, I think the previous one exaggerated it by 10-15%.
A bonus of getting a deal on a previous model year car was that it does not have the electric handbrake either. I don't think it would have bothered me unduly but after 40 years of using conventional handbrakes I don't need one that is doing its own thing.
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The current NEDC official test for emissions/consumption has almost a quarter of the test where the car is "stationary/idle" (I know it's done in a lab on a rolling road). So stop-start means there are no emissions at all and the average therefore lower.
We benefit in this "cheating" because of lower VED and BIK. Of course in the real world NOx emissions are much higher. Which is why there are new tests on the way, one of which uses on the road driving.
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On my commute, which has a few sets of traffic lights, and several roundabouts that involve an appreciable amount of queuing at times, stop/start appears to reduces fuel consumption (per the OBC of both the BMW and the Merc) by around 5%. So certainly not worth it financially, but as there is no downside that I can discern from a driver perspective, why wouldn't I leave it active? And, if it makes the air a little bit cleaner for the people of Chichester, well, I can feel all virtuous as well ;)
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I turn mine off because, in truth, it annoys me. ;-)
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My wife's car has it and she turns it off as part of the starting routine. I nearly always forget, so turn it off after the first time the engine cuts out!
I have to say it works well though (it's a DSG diesel Tiguan) and if we didn't own the car so had no concerns about wear and tear, I'd use it. I've heard people say they hardly ever cut out, but ours seems very keen to turn the engine off.
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Agreed - it's particularly annoying on an automatic. With a manual you can simply have your clutch foot down for a short stop - such as coming out of a minor road - whereas the automatic will stop the engine when you brake.
What is really objectionable is the Big Brother legislation that stops manufacturers giving you the option to have it turned off as a default setting.
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>> Agreed - it's particularly annoying on an automatic.
>>
I found it annoying on the 123d which was manual.and always turned it off. Though I quite like it in some circumstances in the M135i auto as when in traffic and stopping for more than a few seconds it avoids the need to select neutral or park, and you hardly notice the engine stopping and starting as it's a virtually vibration free process. I generally turn it off though and certainly don't use it after braking from speed as it's not ideal to stay on the brakes after a long stop, the uneven heat dissipation can warp discs.
>> What is really objectionable is the Big Brother legislation that stops manufacturers giving you the
>> option to have it turned off as a default setting.
>>
I guess if it can be off by default then the car won't meet the emmisions target by default ...
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I had it on the previous car and now this one. For me the Passat rarely switched the engine off to be honest - short journeys. This one and the demo VW diesels I had in 2014 did it all the time (pretty much).
This is not my car so I'm not concerned about wear and tear. I do know that when I want to get going it's easy to start the engine on this car in readiness without turning stop-start off.
When stationary and the EPB is on... press the break pedal twice. Or touch the accelerator (Gently) and the engine will turn on... Do the same again and the EPB disengages and the car creeps forward. Note I don't have auto-hill hold - that would make a difference.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 01:05
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I have idle stop and don't like it even though it operates well when the battery is fully charged. I always switch it off.
The trouble is the other regular driver likes it and leaves it enabled. Aside from the minimal (?) wear and tear issues of repeated restarts, I inwardly cringe every time they sit with the clutch in to stop it operating. I hate to see the clutch used as an idle stop control as I believe a dipped clutch still incurs some wear and stress.
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S'funny .. I used to earn my corn back in the 80's/90's fixing vehicles which kept cutting out at idle.
Fortunately my 2010 petrol auto CR-V doesn't have 'stop start, although some jamjars I was looking at to replace my trusty-not-rusty Subaru did indeed have it, so I got orf lightly there!
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Dog, takes me back. i worked in car rental briefly in the 70's. We'd take cars a few months old for "points and plugs" when they started playing up. Done while I had a cup of coffee and then off again. Cured most rough running without taking car off rent.
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These days many petrol cars that cut out at idle when they shouldn't can be cured by using premium fuels such as BP Ultimate and Shell V-Power which clean the muck out of the system.
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>>i worked in car rental briefly in the 70's. We'd take cars a few months old for "points and plugs" when they started playing up
Howls about the air filters - many cars I came to work on had air filters which looked more like oil filters.
The air filter on Hillman Imp's were a bit of a pain to replace, so many hardly ever saw the light of day, they were always soaked in oil too ISTR.
Intermotor condensers used to bring in LOADS of work :o)
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Dog, nice nostalgic thread drift we seem to have started!
They were all less than a year old and usually under 10000 miles so airfilters would have been rare to replace.
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The only stop start system I've used a lot of is fords. I thought it was very intuitive, very rarely got caught out by it and it restarted in a blink of an eye. I'd definitely use it if I had a new Ford.
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I have been referred to this on another forum.
youtu.be/k159M8QhCIE
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 15:23
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That irritating bloke from Fifth Gear did a back to back test in a city a couple of years ago, running the car until it ran out of fuel. He reckoned it got a significant benefit in city driving.
It's very unintrusive on the V60 - by the time your foot is off the brake the engine is already running again and the gearbox has an electrical oil pump so it'll creep normally.
Personal opinion is that if you turn it off you should automatically be billed the full rate of VED for car you're in. Not least because you're making a deliberate decision to negatively affect the health of other people.
I'd expect the button to be removed within a year or two.
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How much pollution does your aircraft produce? Are you going to stop flying because of it? I thought not.
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When I start my ( auto ) car my feet are off the pedals and I just turn the key and allow the car
to start and then sort itself out.
How many folks do you hear them start the engine and immediately hit the gas ?
When I no longer need the engine running I just turn it off, simples.
How many folks hit the gas immediately before turning off the engine ?
I guess it is ancient habits for old cars. RTFM ?
I have a not so aged friend who still uses these old methods of starting and stopping the engine.
How would they cope with stop/start ?
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> How many folks hit the gas immediately before turning off the engine ?
>>
>>
honestly no one, can't say I've seen that before. Why would someone do that?
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>>> How many folks hit the gas immediately before turning off the engine ?
My Grandfathers, both of them. Used to drive me nuts.
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>> >>> How many folks hit the gas immediately before turning off the engine ?
>>
>> My Grandfathers, both of them. Used to drive me nuts.
Foot to the floor, when it hits max revs, turn off. Both my grandfathers as well, must be a generational thing.
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>> > How many folks hit the gas immediately before turning off the engine ?
>> honestly no one, can't say I've seen that before. Why would someone do that?
I understand it was believed doing so would leave some fuel in the combustion chamber, thus enabling an easier re-start.
I think it was shown that all it did was wash oil off the cylinder walls, causing accelerated piston ring and bore wear.
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>> I guess it is ancient habits for old cars. RTFM ?
>> I have a not so aged friend who still uses these old methods of starting
>> and stopping the engine.
>>
>> How would they cope with stop/start ?
Does he also maneuver at low speed with the engine at about 5,000 revs and a smoking clutch? :-)
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>> How much pollution does your aircraft produce? Are you going to stop flying because of
>> it? I thought not.
>>
Glass houses, stones, etc......
www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182
:-)
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>> Glass houses, stones, etc......
>>
>>
>> www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182
>>
:-)
Mine was an emission free nuclear submarine. My greenhouse is fine thanks. :-)
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>> >> Glass houses, stones, etc......
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182
>> >>
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Mine was an emission free nuclear submarine. My greenhouse is fine thanks. :-)
>>
Ah, a fan of electric transportation!
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>> Ah, a fan of electric transportation!
>>
They are steam propelled, but generate a lot of electricity (with steam turbo generators) to support the reactor, operational, and hotel services.
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>>hotel services.
I don't know, you boys in the Navy get it too easy! :-)
Seriously, hats off. Time in a sub takes a special type of person.
I don't know if its true or not, but I heard that the CD rom was developed because keeping all the repair manuals in paper form would have taken up too much space on a cramped sub.
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>> I don't know if its true or not, but I heard that the CD rom
>> was developed because keeping all the repair manuals in paper form would have taken up
>> too much space on a cramped sub.
>>
Things digital came after nuclear submarines. Hotel services are the things that make a submarine habitable, air, light, water, food, beer cooler, and in my day 16mm film projectors. Not luxurious but comfortable for military kit.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 20:12
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>> Hotel services are the things that make a submarine habitable, air, light, water, food,
>>beer cooler, and in my day 16mm film projectors. Not luxurious but comfortable for
>>military kit.
I had sort of guessed that. :-)
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>> How much pollution does your aircraft produce? Are you going to stop flying because of
>> it? I thought not.
>>
That's not really the point though - FF isn't deliberately doing something to increase the level of pollution his aircraft produces
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>> How much pollution does your aircraft produce? Are you going to stop flying because of
>> it? I thought not.
>>
No comparison. If I didn't fly the thing, someone else would (and possibly less efficiently).
You're deliberately disabling part of the emission control system - something that gives you a subsidy on your VED and is also designed to protect other people from needless exhaust particulates.
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>> No comparison. If I didn't fly the thing, someone else would (and possibly less efficiently).
>>
>>
To missquote a TV truck driver, everyone thinks they are the best driver (pilot) I am the best driver (pilot). :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 17:40
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Re youtu.be/k159M8QhCIE responses
On a hot day the A/C is doing its best but stop/start activates.
OK lets go again and enjoy a blast of hot air from the A/C . :-(
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> Personal opinion is that if you turn it off you should automatically be billed the
>> full rate of VED for car you're in. Not least because you're making a deliberate
>> decision to negatively affect the health of other people.
Not unlike those pesky polluting aeroplanes, eh?
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Or the fact that real life exhaust fumes are invariably much worse than the official figures anyway so what about billing us for that discrepancy?
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>> Personal opinion is that if you turn it off you should automatically be billed the
>> full rate of VED for car you're in. Not least because you're making a deliberate
>> decision to negatively affect the health of other people.
We'd do much more good if we banned wood burners.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38746482
www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2757/rr-1
Last edited by: Tigger on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 20:00
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Or clamped down on the shipping industry and its disgusting bunker fuel.
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The millions of gas boilers in the UK can't help, they must produce Co2 and other nasties.
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A quick google shows that a gas Aga generates more than 3.5 tonnes of CO2 per year
Coincidently, a BMW M235i, emitting 189g CO2 per km and covering 12k miles a year generates 3.6 tonnes of CO2 a year
An A3 e-tron emits 38g of CO2 per km, so over the same distance emits 'just' 730kgs of CO2..
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I must remember not to buy German then, polluting things :-)
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Agas are made in the U.K. :p
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>> An A3 e-tron emits 38g of CO2 per km, so over the same distance emits
>> 'just' 730kgs of CO2..
>>
>>
Surely that doesn't include the off the grid energy used to chsrge it ...
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Not as simple as that to compare. Because the 38g is the official averaged out emissions when on the NEDC test. In pure electric mode the emissions are zero from the car (but not necessarily the grid). Charge it every night like Peter and drive less than 30 miles and the emissions are zero.... from the car.
And whilst there will be emissions from some of the power stations, they are not in the city.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 23:55
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No, I imagine it doesn't... we are on the south coast though; perhaps we get French nuclear power ;)
Last edited by: PeterS on Fri 14 Apr 17 at 23:55
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>> The millions of gas boilers in the UK can't help, they must produce Co2 and
>> other nasties.
>>
I remember reading a few years ago that gas boilers would stop being fitted to new houses by, I think, 2015, as they would prevent the house from meeting green requirements.
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>> We'd do much more good if we banned wood burners.
What about patio heaters? Nothing like trying to warm up the rest of the world and don't get me started on people who have the air-con on with the windows open - nurse, nurse, I need my medication.
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>>
>> What about patio heaters? Nothing like trying to warm up the rest of the world
>> and don't get me started on people who have the air-con on with the windows
>> open - nurse, nurse, I need my medication.
>>
I'll sometimes have the air-con on with the roof down if I fancy a nice cool breeze around my toes ;)
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>> Personal opinion is that if you turn it off you should automatically be billed the
>> full rate of VED for car you're in. Not least because you're making a deliberate
>> decision to negatively affect the health of other people.
>>
You may have missed that my fuel consumption has not changed since I stopped using the SS system. I live in a low traffic area, to quote my London resident B in L " If you see more than a dozen cars at once you think you have a traffic jam". I do little urban driving and even then not at the times that the people who have to work are in transit. Remember the population of London is roughly three million more than the population of Scotland, we are well spread out up here, it is a totally different environment to the midlands and all points south east.
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....can't really see the logic of turning it off when, being in such a driving Utopia, it would never get triggered anyway........
;-)
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>> ....can't really see the logic of turning it off when, being in such a driving
>> Utopia, it would never get triggered anyway........
>>
>> ;-)
>>
I accept your jibe, it really can be a driving utopia compared to south of Preston. The problem is different up here, the stop start is triggered for such short periods, a few seconds at traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, giving way at roundabouts etc. It defeats the object, no fuel saving, no meaningful reduction in pollution, just wear on my car.
There is a North Sea gas liqification plant near here, when they are flaring off gas, they burn more in a day (lighting up the sky for miles around at night) than my car and house would use in years. It is all a case of scale.
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> There is a North Sea gas liqification plant near here, when they are flaring off
>> gas, they burn more in a day (lighting up the sky for miles around at
>> night) than my car and house would use in years. It is all a case
>> of scale.
>>
People who litter probably same something similar.
;-)
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 15 Apr 17 at 14:55
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>> People who litter probably same something similar.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Undoubtedly true, but litter doesn't wear out my car.
Our council road sweeper leaves his push along bin gadget at the end of the road I live on and wanders around the area with a bin bag and pick-up gadget. I have never seen him find any litter. Litter is a bit council estate. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 15 Apr 17 at 15:04
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No litter or traffic, heaven on earth eh?
;-)
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No wonder the Scotch want independence.
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>> No wonder the Scotch want independence.
>>
Scotch is whisky. :-)
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No that's not a pie, its an ashtray.
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Did you know, that a pie, is one of the few foodstuffs that has more vowels than consonants?
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I agree. The egg is a much better snack :)
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>> >> No wonder the Scotch want independence.
The people with even half a brain know that Scotland can't afford it by a long way. The SNP are typical loonie lefties, brilliant at spending other peoples money.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 15 Apr 17 at 16:09
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>>The people with even half a brain know that Scotland can't afford it by a long way. The SNP are typical loonie lefties, brilliant at spending other peoples money.
Since when was economics a driver for peoples' independence?
We've just had a vote on leaving the EU and the likelihood is we will be poorer for it.
Having allowed a referendum on exiting the EU here, with Scotland voting to stay and England voting to leave then it is no surprise that they are asking for a new independence election and we should give it to them.
I suspect that most Scots will see sense and elect to stay within the UK, but what do I know, I thought most people in the UK would see sense and opt to stay within the EU.
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>> I thought most people in the UK would see sense
>> and opt to stay within the EU.
>>
That depends on where you are standing, the wealthy south east or the north that has had its economy decimated.
Scotland's problem is it is heavily dependent on funding from the UK government for things like free prescriptions for all, free care for the elderly, transport infrastructure, (the bus companies would be off like a shot if subsidised and free travel funded by the Scottish government was pulled) and the general running of the country. Education and the NHS are being neglected though. London has a couple of million more people than the whole of Scotland which does not have enough people to sustain its current spending and it would be political suicide to stop the current level of spending.
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>>Scotch is whisky. :-)
And, according to R. Burns Esq., the people.
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>> >>Scotch is whisky. :-)
>>
>> And, according to R. Burns Esq., the people.
>>
Language evolves, I believe that Mr Burns is of a previous time and is long dead.
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>> >>Scotch is whisky. :-)
>> And, according to R. Burns Esq., the people.
Also the Oxford English dictionary.
Is there a Scotch English equivalent?
;>)
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Idle stop start, on or off? - The Melting Snowman
