Sold the Kizashi for £8k - loss of £4k over 3 years wasn't as rough as I expected when I bought it.
Have ordered the replacement and expect it around May.
Bopping around in my tatty Forester Turbo S for now - it might even survive 'til the new car arrives.
Going electric as I never do more than 60-70 miles between journeys.
Guess away ;-P
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>> Going electric as I never do more than 60-70 miles between journeys.
So full electric or plug in hybrid?
If all electric and living in Scotland, I'd hope you've gone for a Tesla Model S with AWD :-)
My real guess... BMW i3.
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It's a full electric, but not a Tesla or i3.
Got 14½ grand off list price (including the £4,500 grant) through drivethedeal.com
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>>Sold the Kizashi for £8k - loss of £4k over 3 years wasn't as rough as I expected when I bought it.
That's impressive.
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Of all places to a local webuyanycar.com - before XMas their price was just over £7,000 so thought it was time to move.
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Not really that many fully electric options.
Merc b class?
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And even fewer via DTD I would think. They don't list the Ioniq. Not the e-Golf or e-Up! electric cars.
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>> And even fewer via DTD I would think. They don't list the Ioniq. Not the
>> e-Golf or e-Up! electric cars.
>>
Or the Zoe, or Leaf.......plus the 14K discount points to something......er.......less popular
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mikey's right
Merc B250e - 'detuned' Tesla motor and a 36kWh Tesla battery pack (28kWh usable, or ~32kWh using range plus mode)
Realistic range 80-100miles without hypermiling.
0-60 officially 7.9s but the tests I've seen suggest 6.7 - 6.8s is about right - certainly feels that quick.
Better built and roomier than a LEAF without the gawky looks. Good sized boot (500 litres with seats up).
It has a Tesla on-board AC charger which means 3.6kW regular mains, max 11kW from a 3-phase supply (which I have at home as a result of it once being a small hotel) or an AC fast/rapid charger (of which there are several within a mile of my house)
Downside is it has NO ability to DC rapid charge (ie. the '80% full in 30 minutes' that most EVs can manage) which makes it largely useless for a major cross-country holiday unless you want to stop for 2 hours every 100 miles or so.
In Scotland there is a govt sponsored 0% loan over up to 6 years for EV/PHEV buyers which I intend to make use of.
Flat white with Executive and Range Plus packs - a tad over £20k.
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I didn't know there was an all electric B Class. Sounds like it's going to suit you with the range. So I was right about the Tesla bit I suppose ;-)
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Very poor seller in the UK (think Kizashi for sales volumes...)
I presume an updated version is due later in the year or 2018, with a bigger battery/greater efficiency/in-house motor but I doubt it will be the correct side of 30 grand for a while.
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Don't assume the replacement won't borrow from Tesla parts for motor and battery. Don't forget the Tesla Model X and S borrow parts from Mercedes for switches, stalks etc.
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>> I didn't know there was an all electric B Class.
>>
Tinyurl link to MB:-
tinyurl.com/jn529bz
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You were much easier to spot around our area in the Katichoo. :-)
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That's a left field choice, Lygonos, discarded by me (and probably many) because of the lack of rapid charging, so as you say, very long distances would be challenging.
However, clearly you know all that and it suits. You can always hire on occasion if you don't want to run a second ICE as a backup should you want it.
Going in with your eyes open, it will probably be a great car. I'll be very interested in your feedback.
You will by now, I imagine, be signed up here, but just in case...
speakev.com/forums/general-mercedes-ev-discussion.144/
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 7 Feb 17 at 08:37
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Nah - I'll be the dude kicking a white Merc on the hard shoulder of the M8/M9 when I misjudge the battery.
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That's almost a cash-point price. Right bargain. May consider that when our house move comes off.
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Worth a quick look at this youtube link for anyone interested - review on fully charged by Robert Llewellyn
Interesting comment from him about Mercedes trying to keep it a secret as nobody knows they make it!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WZF7HGkVTA
Lot of car for the money, just a shame about the rapid charger
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I think he mentioned the lack of the rapid charging!
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Do any of you here know of Brandon of Tesla EVangelist on YouTube? Interesting bloke and what he gets up to, driving the very long distances we can only dream of here in the UK.
The USA is well served with charging and Supercharging stations and I can't even imagine driving any distance is this country with an electric car. For a start just see how many Supercharging stations there are throughout the UK.
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Most EV owners charge at home.
Some never use rapid chargers.
Teslas can generally travel 200+ miles in one go which is enough for most people.
Most owners of £60k+ cars have more than 1 car.
Superchargers can put 150miles of range into a Tesla in 30 minutes - about the time it takes to have a pee and a coffee and stretch the legs.
The reality of most peoples' lives however is a 20-40mile daily commute and a handful of long journeys per year.
EVs aren't for everyone, in the same vein as a diesel isn't best suited to a low mileage urban driver.
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>> Most EV owners charge at home.
>>
>> Some never use rapid chargers.
>>
>> Teslas can generally travel 200+ miles in one go which is enough for most people.
>>
>> EVs aren't for everyone, in the same vein as a diesel isn't best suited to
>> a low mileage urban driver.
>>
I realise we're not the USA but even if I were tempted to electric vehicles of that type, one couldn't really consider travelling any distance as in holidays for example, in this country. We simply haven't got a good network of charging stations.
Yes, a second car gets over this but the bloke on that YouTube website is now considering replacing his second, conventional SUV with yet another Tesla, I believe an 'X'.
All his long journeys from Grand Rapids, MI to California and other places have all involved the many Tesla Supercharging stations every 1.5/2 hours, which is America means also, many miles covered.
Ironically though, in my local town's Shopping Mall car park, there is a bay with two chargers for this purpose but they're very rarely occupied.
I find it very difficult to imagine a lot of home charging here in the UK with so many cars parked on our roadways!
Only a few of us, with the luxury of off street parking would find it easy to charge our electric steeds and again how many people have nice double garages in which to put our cars, rather than trailing cables over the driveway?
Last edited by: Oldgit on Tue 7 Feb 17 at 16:22
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>>I find it very difficult to imagine a lot of home charging here in the UK with so many cars parked on our roadways!
When my son bought his S/H car a few weeks ago the owner had his new car parked by the kerb and on charge from his terraced house.
A convenient tree was used to ensure the cable was not a trip hazard.
The owner said his council were exploring how to safely cope with the cable from car to home situation.
The only suggestion to date was some sort of approved " hose ramp" type device.
www.trafficsafetywarehouse.com/images/BHR1.jpg
Or cable ramp device
www.safeoptions.co.uk/traffic-line-1x45mm-plus-2x20mm-cable-hose-protection-ramp
I needs to be safe from 4 wheel pavement chariots :-)
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If I were to get a Plug-in Hybrid I'd make use of the tree alongside our house to charge it and make sure the cable was above anything going past.
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I've always had a drive so not really considered that problem. Having thought about it there must big a big percentage of the population who park on road.
I did see something a while back looking at adapting street lights to be chargers
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>>We simply haven't got a good network of charging stations
Really?
Free to use in Scotland: chargeplacescotland.org/
UK coverage: www.zap-map.com/live/
Considering it's a fairly new network I'd say it is currently (har har) more than enough for the smattering of EVs
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>> >>We simply haven't got a good network of charging stations
>> Really?
>> Free to use in Scotland: chargeplacescotland.org/
>>
>> UK coverage: www.zap-map.com/live/
>>
OK, thanks for that. Looking at those it seems that Scotland is better served considering size of population and land mass.
The South Coast of Uk looks bad in areas I frequent in and around Bexhill and Eastbourne and makes visits from South London a dodgy prospect.
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>> Most owners of £60k+ cars have more than 1 car.
I think that's the key point. Even though most people don't regularly do more than 50 miles a day occasionally they do 300-400 miles journeys. That for that sole reason, if you have just one car, it can't be electric else you need a hire car for longer journey.
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One of the manufacturers (Toyota maybe) used to (and maybe still does) loan a regular car for a limited period per year as they recognise the limitations of an electric car for motoring holidays... (maybe only to initial purchaser...I'm not strong on facts on this one!!)
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 12:39
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>> One of the manufacturers (Toyota maybe) used to (and maybe still does) loan a regular
>> car for a limited period per year as they recognise the limitations of an electric
>> car for motoring holidays... (maybe only to initial purchaser...I'm not strong on facts on this
>> one!!)
Nissan were doing it with the Leaf, although I heard that it was not as straight forward as it sounded - only participating dealers and those that did were not the most accommodating. I guess dealers were having to use their own demos to meet the demand. Not sure if they still offer it - couldn't see it on their website
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>> Not sure if they still offer it - couldn't see it on their website
S'here, guv.
www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/customer-promise.html
Edit:
Terms and conditions apply:
Subject to availability and at participating Nissan dealerships, Nissan will endeavor to provide you with free use of petrol or diesel car (‘Loan Car’). Customer is eligible for free use of a Loan Car subject to the following conditions:
1. Customers must have purchased a Nissan Electric Vehicle new from a Nissan dealer. Not available to customers who purchased a used or ex-demonstration Nissan Electric Vehicle.
2. Customers must be a Retail or Motability customer only. Not available to Fleet, Contract Hire or Leasing customers. Please check with your dealer if you are an eligible customer type.
3. Only available during the first 3 years of ownership of a new Nissan Electric Vehicle.
4. Nissan only endeavor to provide you with a Loan Vehicle from dealership from which the Customer purchased their Nissan Electric Vehicle. To borrow a Loan Car from another dealership, please check with that dealership.
5. Customers may only borrow a Loan Car for up to 14 days per year.
6. Each booking must be for a minimum of one day. Any booking which lasts for less than one day will count as one full day for the purposes of this scheme.
7. Unless otherwise stated by the individual dealership, the provision of free use of a Loan Car is subject to a maximum mileage limit of 143 miles per day.
8. The Loan Car must not be taken from mainland UK. Unless agreed otherwise in advance, the Customer will be responsible for all fuel costs and all other costs such as Congestion Charge, parking, fines, tolls etc.
9. The Loan Car is subject to availability. Customers must give at least 7 days’ notice to the participating dealer before the pick-up date. The Loan Car will be either petrol or diesel, and will be either a manual, automatic or semi-auto at the dealer’s discretion. Participating dealers are not able to guarantee the model, specification, features, fuel type or transmission type of the loan car. The loan car will be no smaller than a Nissan Note (i.e. it will not be a Pixo or Micra) unless (a) the customer specifically requests a smaller car and (b) one is available. Vans or Combis are not available to borrow. e-NV200 customers may
borrow a petrol or diesel car if they like.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 13:24
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>> Unless otherwise stated by the individual dealership, the provision of free use of a Loan Car is subject to a maximum mileage limit of 143 miles per day.
Which defeats the whole purpose!
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>> Which defeats the whole purpose!
>>
Yes and no - I guess if you need one for a week to go somewhere 400 miles away you might be OK with 7 x 147 giving you about 1000 miles a week, but if its just for a couple of days then pretty pointless.
Leaf range must be over 100 miles plus a fast charge to 80% en route would mean for most 147 miles in a day would be achievable without much hassle
Whats the furthest our resident EV drivers have managed in a day?
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>> One of the manufacturers (Toyota maybe)
Bless you - Toyota don't make any pure electric cars. They say there's no future in them, and everyone will want hydrogen.
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LOL I was thinking of the Leaf when I wrote it too!! Brain fade...
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Rather than recharging batteries, technology should focus on replacing batteries at charging stations. If that can be done within 10 minutes there won't be any range anxiety anymore.
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Batteries are too big and too heavy for that to be a realistic solution I think
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That sounds an amazingly inefficient method of running cars you can simply plug in a couple of nights per week at home or in a designated charging spot.
Might as well have petrol stations....
It wouldn't be the most expensive or difficult technological advancement to have 240v 16A sockets all over the place - they managed to get cable TV to most urban environments, and the infrastructure for supplying single phase AC (or even 3 phase) if pretty much everywhere.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 20:48
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>> It wouldn't be the most expensive or difficult technological advancement to have 240v 16A sockets
>> all over the place - they managed to get cable TV to most urban environments,
>> and the infrastructure for supplying single phase AC (or even 3 phase) if pretty much
>> everywhere.
>>
The power stations to supply it and all these mythical battery cars will cost a wad of cash. If it happens the treasury will not loose out, the motoring taxation will be transferred somehow.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 21:05
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We've done the maths before ON - if every car was running on electricity you could more than power them all burning the petrol and diesel you no longer used...
Also, petrol and diesel is difficult to create using wind/hydro/solar/wave/nuclear energy.
Missed your edit - "If it happens the treasury will not loose out, the motoring taxation will be transferred somehow."
Absolutely, but while they are encouraging the use of non-polluting-at-point-of-use vehicles the tax breaks are substantial.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 21:07
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If a short range car is suitable for your requirements I don't blame you for taking advantage of the system as it stands.
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315 billion vehicle miles travelled in the UK in 2015 - that would need 60-70,000 GWh of electricity assuming around 4-5 miles per kWh.
The Uk generates ~330,000 GWh per year presently.
So if every car/van/lorry/bus changed to pure electric we'd need about 20% more electricity production.
Funnily enough at night there is more than that spare generating capacity so ensuring the majority of vehicles recharge overnight would mean little need for a huge increase in power stations - gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ - currently peaks around 50GW during the day and dips to 30GW during the wee small hours.
Additionally, assuming the average fuel consumption of these vehicles was 31.5mpg (to keep the numbers easy - cars would manage a little more than this with vans/buses/HGVs bringing the average back down) that would be 10 billion gallons of petrol and diesel not going into motor vehicles - this could be stuffed into power stations if necessary and develop ~13kWh per gallon (ie. 130,000 GWh - TWICE the power going into all those vehicles although there would be a 10-15% or so loss getting it from generator to car battery pack)
As you are probably aware (being a military chappie) the UK has substantial stand-by diesel power generation already.
Of course the guff above assumes 100% switch to EVs which is not likely in the next 20+ years, but the figures hold for even partial conversion to EVs.
More wind turbines vicar?
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 21:25
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>> More wind turbines vicar?
>>
When I see lots of stationary wind turbines on a windless day I realise what a clever man Salmond is. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 8 Feb 17 at 21:49
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Not sure how much extra the EV drivers are spending on the lecky bill, but in my quest to move to a new deal I came across this
www.greenenergyuk.com/Tide
Its a time of use tariff - bit like the old economy 7, but has 3 charging times with the highlight being 4.99p per kWh from 11pm to 6am
Most of the rest of the time is charged at 11.99p with a hefty uplift to 24.99p between 16:00 and 19:00 - looks a good deal if you can minimise use at that time, but not sure it would work for us
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This wind turbine has encountered a delay
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38907831
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And the Tesla uses a lot of small cells/batteries to make up bigger battery packs. And there's lots! Like close to 7000!
That joke advert for a Mercedes ejecting batteries seems accurate/apt.
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If the Tesla cells are really like this then I am surprised to be honest:
insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2014-08-19-19.13.08-1280.jpg
Each battery take has what looks like a AA in it!
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All EV batteries - see Prius are like that. Makes repairing cheap - replace a few faulty cells rather than one big one..
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So the battery packs in a Tesla Model S contain 444 Panasonic 18650 cells (the model 3 will use a newer cell co-developed with Panasonic and made in the GigaFactory). So at 48.5g per cell, that's 21.5kg of cells per battery pack - does not contain anything for the battery pack in that figure.
The 85kWh battery packs in the P85 therefore consists of 16 x 444 cells, i.e. 7104. So that makes it about 344kg. The more energy dense models since the P85 use slightly different variants of the 18650 cells and not more.
So back to the question of swapping out batteries, ignoring the fact they are in the chassis on a Tesla Model S.... they will weigh 400+kg with the battery pack itself.
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I saw one of these, in white, at the weekend. You weren't in Lanark by any chance....?
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Ordered new car - rtj70
