| Motoring Discussion > What Automatic? | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Bobby | Replies: 71 |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:06
What Automatic? - Bobby
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Whenever I read any articles on here about automatics, there is "automatically" a surge of answers saying don't buy this, that or the next one. So my question is, what are the good automatics and what makes them that way? I read that all VAG autos have to be missed because of the DSG - yet they sell a helluva lot of them! Brother in law has just bought a £50k A7 with one - are they really all bad? If so why do they keep making them and folk buy them? I read that shouldn't buy dry clutch but wet clutch is ok? Is it a case of the percentage of fails of these gearboxes is possibly the same percentage of fails that you get with conventional clutches and gearboxes? America is predominantly automatics - assume VAG don't fit DSGs over there? I would definitely consider an auto for my next car as long as it was economical enough and the obvious choice seems to be the DSG boxes of the VAG group - you can get some economical petrol and diesels in the range. I know of at least a handful of folk that have DSGs and love them, from the A7 to a Leon / Golf GTD etc. And them you can get a hybrid like the Auris which is petrol. automatic (CVT I think) and zero road tax. That actually, on the face of it, ticks a lot of my boxes! |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:22
What Automatic? - madf
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A lot depends on how you drive and where you drive. I like CVTs . Most motoring journalists hate them. But for comfortable quiet efficient in everyday motoring they are smooth and trouble free. As the Auris hybrid uses the Prius drivetrain - the most reliable volume car there is - it's a safe buy. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:25
What Automatic? - CGNorwich
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CarWow do a useful guide to car jargon for the technically illiterate like me. Here is the one on DSG autos which explains the benefits and drawbacks quite well I think. Hope you find it useful www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/dsg-gearbox-explained |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:30
What Automatic? - CGNorwich
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And the one on CVTs www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/cvt-gearboxes-explained |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:41
What Automatic? - NortonES2
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Describes Toyota "cvt" rather gnomically, as a planetary gear set. True, but not a great deal of help if you are not technically minded! Here, a much clearer explanation relevant to the Prius and Auris: tinyurl.com/zyyy2lr PS: we have an Auris hybrid. Very pleased with it. Last edited by: NortonES2 on Tue 3 Jan 17 at 10:43
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:47
What Automatic? - CGNorwich
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| Well yes but a detailed explanation as to the mechanics is not what most people of us non technically minded want. Rather a brief summary and the drawbacks and benefits of the technology is what I need. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:51
What Automatic? - NortonES2
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| You have a brief summary in the link. There is a detailed explanation too, which is not obligatory! |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:51
What Automatic? - Bobby
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Norton, have read all the bumpf on the Auris but what real life difference does the hybrid make? From what I can see it only gives you something like half a mile on pure electric. Is it simply a case of in stop start town traffic, the regen etc keeps giving you wee boosts of power? And opposite to that, if you are going for a long 3 hour motorway drive I take it there is no input from the electrics at all? What is the overall mpg you are getting? |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:02
What Automatic? - NortonES2
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| Range on pure electric varies according to the model, think up to a mile on the NiMH batteries, but the electric motor is more used as a filler to give torque as and when required. Very quick off the line partly due to instant response and no clutch-fumbling. In slow traffic, when running downhill up to 45-50mph, and cruising in suburbia, the system switches into EV mode quite often. Recharges on the overrun and more strongly when braking. As for M-ways, if you have charge, and give the engine some welly, the ICE is supplemented by the electrical power. Downhill, and on the overrun, the electric motors charge the power pack. So, something going on all the time, which can be seen onscreen if you have the time to watch it! We get roughly 50mpg on daily short runs with some trips into Manchester via the Cat and Fiddle. Hilly terrain here. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 10:51
What Automatic? - Bobby
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| Cheers CGN - interesting reading. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:43
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> Here >> is the one on DSG autos which explains the benefits and drawbacks quite well >> >> www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/dsg-gearbox-explained OK as far as it goes, in fact a lot better than most journalistic explanations. However it does imply that all DSGs have steering wheel levers. They don't. I'm not a fan, but I think that they can now be regarded as "proven" for practical purposes. However I would still be wary of buying a used one. Why? Because most habituated auto drivers will use these just as they did their T/C, solenoid controlled autos. For some that will include holding the car on the accelerator. The manual for a DSG-equipped car tells you not to do that but how many have read it, or thought about it? Big difference between warming up a bit of fluid, and rubbing the surfaces off a friction clutch. Similarly, for cars with a fully mechanical handbrake like our Popemobile, leaving it in D and pulling the handbrake on. It will get the message after a few seconds and put the clutch out, but until then it will just slip the clutch. If you are one of those people who needs to know how things work, you will find yourself thinking "what's it doing now?" until you figure it out. Our 7 speed will set off in 2nd if there is any forward motion at all. Turning into our uphill drive requires an almost-stop; on take up it will be in 2nd as it is about to mount the dropped kerb and set off up the slope. I don't like this, so I always knock the lever sideways and manually select 1st. Does it matter? Probably not. I should trust the programming; but however well it is programmed, it cannot see what is in front of it. They are an impressive bit of engineering without a doubt. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:12
What Automatic? - Dog
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The Telegraph did a piece on automatic gearboxes a while back: www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/which-sort-of-automatic-gearbox-is-best/ |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:30
What Automatic? - Falkirk Bairn
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>>Brother in law has just bought a £50k A7 with one NEW car bought /leased is under warranty so if there is an issue - problems it belongs to VAG. The problems are for owner 2/3 who has a 2nd hand car worth a few thousand & a gearbox costs about the same to replace. A son bought a new Golf GTi in 2010 & sold it after 3 years - looked good in red & he traded it in @ VW Dealer who promptly auctioned it. It was bought be a local non franchise oulet & it was for sale for at least 12 months - the DSG worries killed any sale unless it was very, very cheap - sold for less than the T/I value 12 months earlier. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:39
What Automatic? - Runfer D'Hills
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It is of course preposterous to reject a car brand on the basis of products they no longer make, and I gather the problems with the early DSG boxes have now largely been overcome ? But just as I, admittedly irrationally, would never buy another Renault because I had such a bad experience with one 15 years ago, I'd not have a DSG gearbox either because both cars we bought for our company fleet which were fitted with them had problems with them. That bridge is burned as far as I'm concerned. Which is, I admit, probably not useful. ;-) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:43
What Automatic? - Bobby
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| Humph, about the same rationale as my dad who won't ever buy a Ford because his Cortinas would always struggle to start in the wet?? |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:49
What Automatic? - Runfer D'Hills
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| Absolutely ! ;-) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 11:59
What Automatic? - PeterS
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| Indeed our A3 had a problem with its DSG 'box - something to do with the mechatronics unit - and was off the road for a week while the part was sourced, coded and fitted. But the service by Audi was exemplary, so I'd quite happily have another. I will be extending the warranty when it expires though ;) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:02
What Automatic? - Runfer D'Hills
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Hmmm, see, not convinced, ( sucks teeth and wanders off muttering ) ;-) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:20
What Automatic? - DP
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My biggest issue with DSG, apart from its irritating low speed behaviour, is the fact it has issues that dealers can't always fix. A colleague had a new CC 170 GT DSG in 2012 which, very occasionally on being asked to accelerate hard, would intermittently select "neutral" instead of changing down, leaving the car with no drive at all. The only way you could restore normal behaviour was to cycle the ignition, where it would behave perfectly again. It would sometimes go thousands of miles without issue. Other times it would occur several times on one journey. Needless to say it never did it when the dealers had it. Several tried, and sent it back with no fault found. The transmission passed all diagnostic tests and apparently had nothing wrong with it. The car went off to auction at three years old with the fault still there. Someone somewhere is driving that car now, probably still unfixed. I still don't think you can beat the ZF-8HP torque converter box being fitted to current BMWs, Aston Martin and JLR products. It's genuinely brilliant. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:24
What Automatic? - PeterS
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| I agree that the ZF box used by BMW is brilliant...I still went with a manual though!! The 9 speed box in the latest Mercs is also sublime...really suits the nature of the cars I think. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:29
What Automatic? - Runfer D'Hills
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Proper cars y'see, Mercs... ;-) Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 3 Jan 17 at 12:31
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:32
What Automatic? - PeterS
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| Though quite why a turbodiesel with oodles of torque needs 9 gears to choose from I do not know!! |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:33
What Automatic? - PeterS
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>> Proper cars y'see, Mercs... >> >> ;-) >> Agreed :) The C63 AMG always seemed rather extravagant an uncecessary... but there's a C43 now as y around 360BHP mind... ;) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:37
What Automatic? - Runfer D'Hills
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360BHP sounds "sufficient" doesn't it... ;-) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:33
What Automatic? - DP
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My boss has an SL400 and raves about that 9 speed box. Reckons it's a big step up over the old 7G-TRONIC unit. The other thing that impresses me about the ZF is that when I was chatting to our fleet manager at my previous employer, he reckoned of the approximately 200 320d and 520d models on the fleet with this box fitted, not one had ever gone wrong. The DSG's were mostly OK, but he reckoned they gave more trouble on the whole than the ZFs, and this wasn't helped by dealers being generally unable to diagnose and fix problems with them. He said that out of the 100 or so they had on the fleet, there were half a dozen that he knew about that were running around with unfixed faults. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 12:45
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> My biggest issue with DSG, apart from its irritating low speed behaviour, is the fact >> it has issues that dealers can't always fix. You can't fix an intermittent fault that you can't reproduce, other than by playing parts darts. Ultimately f they couldn't fix it, they should have replaced the car. What has become common is that main dealer workshops often can't fix non-intermittent faults properly. A friend has just has limp-mode problems on her B-Max. Dealer said it was fixed with a software upgrade. Recurred within a day. Then said it needed a new DPF and claimed it was a separate fault and they really had fixed it the first time. Recurred again. Yet to be properly fixed. The problem seems to be poor diagnosis. Getting the fault codes is not a diagnosis. If they can't find the fault they should not charge the diagnostic fee for plugging it in. Fortunately this one is under warranty |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 13:05
What Automatic? - DP
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The fact that a transmission can be designed in such a way that it can suffer an intermittent, but repeated and long standing fault that completely immobilises the car, albeit temporarily, and leave no diagnostic trace is an issue in itself. The lack of diagnostic skills in main dealers generally is not a new phenomenon. I remember taking eleven dealer visits to get an idle issue sorted in my year old 306 back in the late 90s. One time they simply left it idling in the car park all day, and returned it to me with "no fault found". |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 14:45
What Automatic? - BrianByPass
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>> You can't fix an intermittent fault that you can't reproduce, other than by playing parts >> darts. Ultimately f they couldn't fix it, they should have replaced the car. >> Licence for unscrupulous punters to go along with imaginary faults, which obviously can't be reproduced, to get a replacement car! |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 14:55
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> Licence for unscrupulous punters to go along with imaginary faults, which obviously can't be reproduced, >> to get a replacement car! You might take a different view if it was your car:) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 13:27
What Automatic? - Dog
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>>The problems are for owner 2/3 who has a 2nd hand car worth a few thousand & a gearbox costs about the same to replace. £4000+ on this Volvo: www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=1388378#post1388378 |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 13:19
What Automatic? - Dog
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Some interesting reading here: "A traditional automatic gearbox is very reliable, but not very efficient and the slurring is irritating. The next development was the lock-up function in the upper or two upper gears. This was the same basic gearbox with the added functionality of omitting the slurring under steady driving at speed, saving fuel when cruising. Unfortunately, reliability suffered somewhat with the lock-up and inner city consumption remained poor compared to a manual gearbox. The next to come was the electronic automatic 'box, like the Geartronic. Horrible contraptions that shift slower than a traditional gearbox and is even less efficient, despite offering lock-up in every gear that one would expect to deliver economy close to a manual gearbox. Reliability is overall fairly good, but since they're electronically controlled you do risk kokk-ups that can drive you mad if it decides to act up. And no, you will not always get fault codes. I know. I used to have a Mondeo 5-tronic. The best system in theory is the most modern automatic shifter, like the Powershift. Seamless shifts without delay due to the use of 2 clutches and otherwise like a standard manual gearbox used in motorcycles for ages. They could have been made entirely mechanical, but people do not want to operate the stick, so electronics are heavily involved - and also the only thing to give trouble in normal use provided a decent design. Electronics can, however, cause major havoc if they act up. Still, I would expect reliable operation in most cases and economy should be excellent in that the engine can always operate in its most economical range, especially now that we see 8 and even 9 speed shifters appearing. Which brings us back to economy. I would, again on average, expect a Powershift or similar gearbox to be cheaper over time - on average - than any other type of auto gearbox on the market. That includes fuel consumption and expected repairs. A basic manual gearbox will probably be cheaper due to lower purchase price - provided you know how to drive smoothly. Erratic or harsh drivers will benefit from automatic assistance. In conclusion - I really do know how to waste people's time, don't I? - if I demanded automatic gear changes and long term reliability and economy, ideally I would buy a car with a small, reasonably powerful turbo petrol in combination with some sort of dual clutch gearbox from a brand with a good reputation for reliability and a solid warranty" www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-120754.html |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 14:49
What Automatic? - BrianByPass
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>> Is it a case of the percentage of fails of these gearboxes is possibly the >> same percentage of fails that you get with conventional clutches and gearboxes? >> You need access to a database such as this appropriately named one to find those that are s*** www.anusedcar.com/ |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 16:24
What Automatic? - Rudedog
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I've had my DSG for 10 years now from new, always had it's 40K service and hasn't had a problem, pleasure to use in slow traffic (no issues in car parks!) and also when you are putting your foot down, coupled with diesel torque it flys. Mine is a wet clutch which tend to be fitted to high power/torque units, mines a bit clunky when cold but soon warms up, maybe the dry clutch versions don't suffer from this? My next car will have a DSG. Looking at the 'other' forum they think they are the spawn of the devil, although I wonder how many people who slag them off have really used one. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 16:52
What Automatic? - DP
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I had a DSG equipped CC for a weekend as I was seriously considering one as a company car. When rolling, it was brilliant. The gearchanges were uncannily smooth, and it seemed to be very responsive generally. Sadly, at low speeds the one I had was jerky and inconsistent in its responses, as it was clearly trying - unsuccessfully in my view - to emulate a torque converter box by displaying a degree of creep. When coupled with the almost alarming lag/delay when trying to move off sharply from rest, such as when joining a busy roundabout, I came away quite unimpressed overall. Indeed it put me off the car completely. I daresay familiarity would have reduced these issues, but when you can drive an 8 speed auto BMW that just feels great from the off (and unlike DSG carries no fuel economy or CO2 penalty), for me, it just felt like VW has backed the wrong technology for their 2 pedal option. Given the sales success of DSG, clearly others get on well with it and perhaps I was a little harsh in my view, but I was less than impressed with the example I drove. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 17:30
What Automatic? - rtj70
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>> Sadly, at low speeds the one I had was jerky and inconsistent in its responses, as it was clearly >> trying - unsuccessfully in my view - to emulate a torque converter box by displaying a degree >> of creep. You did turn off the auto-hold function didn't you. If you touched the brakes and brought the car to a standstill it would have engaged auto-hold. So it would stop creeping. You need to use some gas to overcome auto-hold to get it creeping again. When I tried a Passat CC on a short demo I found reversing into a space a terrible experience. It was only later when I had a manual CC (the DSG made it more expensive) that I realised why the experience had been bad. My current (albeit petrol) DSG equipped car creeps fine. It doesn't have auto-hold on it as standard like the Passat CC did. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 14:37
What Automatic? - DP
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>> My current (albeit petrol) DSG equipped car creeps fine. It doesn't have auto-hold on it >> as standard like the Passat CC did. >> I think you are probably onto something there, rtj70. I know from my manual CC that I had last year, that Auto Hold defaults on, and I wouldn't have realised what it was at the time. It's a feature that works really well in the manual cars. I left mine on pretty much all the time, but I can see how it would be frustrating in the DSG models. In fact, I can't work out why it would be needed if the transmission had some creep built in. Seems a strange decision to even include it. Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 4 Jan 17 at 19:04
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 16:50
What Automatic? - Bill Payer
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>> It's a feature that works really well in the manual cars. I left mine on >> pretty much all the time, but I can see how it would be frustrating in >> the DSG models. In fact, I can't work out why it would be needed if >> the transmission had some creep built in. Seems a strange decision to even include it. >> We have it turned off in our Tiguan - as you say, seems pointless in an auto. Plus on ours (2015 model, but of course a 7-8yr old design) the brake lights go off which I'm not keen on. On newer platform VW's the brake lights stay on with auto-hold. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 19:31
What Automatic? - rtj70
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>> It's a feature that works really well in the manual cars. I left mine on pretty much all the time, >> but I can see how it would be frustrating in the DSG models. In fact, I can't work out why it >> would be needed if the transmission had some creep built in. Seems a strange decision to even >> include it. As I said on my test drive the DSG seemed like any other auto but then came to reverse park it back at the dealer (with them in the car with me). Could I get it to creep.... no. I was cautious of hitting something else. And trying to see if the reverse camera was any use too (it isn't). At that point I knew the DSG was a no-no for me. Only later did I realise it was auto-hold. I can see why you'd want it on a DSG car. It will stop it creeping without you putting on the EPB or keeping your foot on the brake pedal. But someone should tell you that it needs turning off to park :-) Maybe the low speed issue many have with a DSG is in a VAG car with auto-hold! I have really enjoyed an auto again. But my A3 didn't have auto-hold as standard and I didn't spec it as an option. Had I gone for the manual I'd have added auto-hold. In fact when test-driving the A3 saloon I decided the DSG was only £4/month more than the manual after all costs (BIK, monthly rental, etc.) taken into account... so why not a DSG. Then the emissions on the manual dropped to match the DSG so the manual was cheaper.... but I liked the DSG. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 20:10
What Automatic? - Dog
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I wonder if the 2014 V40 has some sort of auto-hold, tis a high spec model with leather etc. so I should imagine if it was available on a Powershift, it would have it. I did notice it rolled back slightly when I stopped on a hill, maybe if I had touched the footbrake some sort of auto-hold would have kicked in? I don't think I noticed any creep either when I reverse parked. The sensors worked well though, and thankfully they weren't too loud! it has a dashboard reversing distance readout thingy too, which I found to be very accurate (Bang!) |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 23:46
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> I did notice it rolled back slightly when I stopped on a hill, maybe if >> I had touched the footbrake some sort of auto-hold would have kicked in? On my Outlander and on the Roomster I believe you actually have to brake to a halt for the brakes to hold when you stop on a hill. This confounds me anyway, because as a "smooth" driver I normally release the brake gradually so it is off just as the car comes to a halt. (You know - the opposite of what bus drivers do). Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 4 Jan 17 at 23:47
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New Thu 5 Jan 17 07:30
What Automatic? - Dog
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I'm taking the ole woman to test drive the V40 this morning. She didn't fancy the Citroen C3 automated manual we looked at some years ago and, there's hills a'plenty in Cornwall. She is under strict orders to like it for herself, not for me. I'll stay in the showroom and find someone to annoy while she goes out with Callum, who hails from Cheshire apparently - jolly decent chap ... for a car salesman. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 18:00
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> I daresay familiarity would have reduced these issues, Yes it does, basically because you start driving around the idiosyncrasies, which is pretty much what rtj is describing. The nuances of that will be slightly different according to whether the car has an EPB/hill hold/auto hold* Trying to park close to a wall with these things is a much trickier job than it should be; you can get it moving gently, but of course when you touch the brake it "declutches". *Hill hold and auto hold may or may not be the same thing in VAG-land. The Roomster has "hill hold" although it does not have an EPB. The hill hold does not work on a slope <5% according to Skoda, and it does not (thankfully) work on our uphill drive. VW just says "Auto Hold is an extension of our electronic parking brake system. It stops your car from accidentally rolling backwards when you're stationary, or setting off on a hill." Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 3 Jan 17 at 18:01
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 18:10
What Automatic? - rtj70
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The standard fitting of auto-hold on a DSG car is not necessary. But the CC does indeed have it. And the issues it causes has nothing to do with a DSG. Put me off one in 2011 - but so did the higher emissions and higher list price and monthly rental. Note on the Passat CC of the time it was auto-hold and not hill-hold. There's a difference. I can't comment on the current Passat because I've not yet driven one. Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 3 Jan 17 at 18:12
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 18:11
What Automatic? - Bromptonaut
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>> *Hill hold and auto hold may or may not be the same thing in VAG-land. >> The Roomster has "hill hold" although it does not have an EPB." >> Does your Roomster have DSG? |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 18:44
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> Does your Roomster have DSG? >> Yes. The boss likes automatics, although she is perfectly proficient with Manuel. I like it, taken all round, and frequently use it locally. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 18:52
What Automatic? - PeterS
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The e-tron is fitted with a wet clutch version of the DSG box (three clutches apparently) presumably because at times 350Nm of torque is generated by the electric motor and engine combined. It doesn't have hill hold though audi-illustrated.com/download/JaBT2a42O5IE-yMQowqENg?locale=en It's generally smooth, but not a patch on the BMW box, though quicker shifting than the 7 speed Merc. But it's not perfect at low speed, especially if the ICE cuts in very soon after the car starts moving. Particularly noticeable in the low temperatures in France over new year for some reason and not relate to more aggressive acceleration. The car needs a good clean after 900odd misty/foggy/salty miles, so perhaps it'll book it in to be looks at ;) Last edited by: PeterS on Tue 3 Jan 17 at 18:53
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 19:20
What Automatic? - rtj70
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When I was out for a quick demo of the Passat CC in 2010, I was always going to go for the manual at the time for cost reasons. When trying to reverse park I didn't think the reverse camera was useful and I struggled because the car didn't creep. Kept stopping and needing you to apply power on the throttle to move.... not good. As I say I realised only later it was auto-hold as I'd never had that before. I like the DSG I have now. I've always liked autos. Well not the 1.4 petrol Astra auto (4 speed) that was my first company car hand-me-down. :-) |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 19:43
What Automatic? - Dog
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When I test drove the V40 yesterday, I reverse parked it to check out the parking sensors (for the ole woman) The Powershift (dual wet clutch) transmission performed exactly like a conventional auto transmission. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 19:50
What Automatic? - The Melting Snowman
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| It all seems so complicated, I think I will stick with manual gearboxes. The Focus has such a light clutch, the first time I drove it I thought it was broken. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 20:05
What Automatic? - movilogo
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| Mkt Kia DCT with pedal shifters and dry clutches behaves like conventional automatic in fully automatic mode. I use manual mode occasionally and it is fun. |
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New Tue 3 Jan 17 21:39
What Automatic? - mikeyb
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I've quite come to like the CVT box in my Lexus - its basically the Prius drive train. Journos hate they but I put that down to them driving it like they stole it. Lots of hard acceleration is not its strong point, but at the 95% day to day stuff its great. The hybrid system uses the electric motor to create the creep function of a traditional auto without the engine running so you can glide along at slow speeds with little input. I've just dropped my son back at school and on the return there is a stretch of residential which is a mix of 30/40's and reckon I covered about 2 miles in EV mode. On the motorway the electric motor still provides assistance - if you watch the graphics you can see the output. I'm not really aware of any Toyota CVT failures so I would assume they are reliable and well tested |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 08:29
What Automatic? - Crankcase
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I guess you've mastered the art of "pulse and glide" in it then mikeyb? I used to have endless fun trying to maximise the EV distance without kicking the ICE in both my Prius and my Auris. Just in case you're thinking "do what with the what now?", there are many web explanations. Here's a Prius one: www.metrompg.com/posts/pulse-and-glide.htm Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 4 Jan 17 at 08:30
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 17:22
What Automatic? - mikeyb
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>> I guess you've mastered the art of "pulse and glide" in it then mikeyb? I >> used to have endless fun trying to maximise the EV distance without kicking the ICE >> in both my Prius and my Auris. In urban areas its become second nature, however, the system is very clever. Mrs B has no interest in maximising MPG and just gets in and drives. Even with her slightly heavy left foot and lack of anticipation she still gets good MPG. Over the near 30K since I got it we are at an all time average of 52. Best across a tank is 61, worst is 47. I think for a petrol auto that's pretty good |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 12:21
What Automatic? - Bill Payer
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>> I've had my DSG for 10 years now from new, always had it's 40K service >> and hasn't had a problem, pleasure to use in slow traffic (no issues in car >> parks!) and also when you are putting your foot down, coupled with diesel torque it >> flys. >> >> Mine is a wet clutch which tend to be fitted to high power/torque units, mines >> a bit clunky when cold but soon warms up, maybe the dry clutch versions don't >> suffer from this? >> >> My next car will have a DSG. >> >> Looking at the 'other' forum they think they are the spawn of the devil, although >> I wonder how many people who slag them off have really used one. >> I readsomewhere that there are six versions of the DSG box currently in use by VW and people who drive a variety of cars say they do vary. We have the a 7 speed wet clutch version in our Tiguan. Had never driven DSG before we got it and I'd say it works fine (reference point being the highy regarded 5 speed torque converter box in my older Mercedes). A lot of people who jumped on the Passat Alltrack leasing glitch hate its DSG - it's interesting that although it's a more powerful version of the same engine as in Tiguan, and it has the same 4Motion system, it makes do with a 6 speed dry clutch DSG. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 14:20
What Automatic? - Rudedog
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I've lost track of all of the different versions now.. I know when I placed my order for the Golf in 2006 there was a delay as there was a shortage of DSG boxes in VW, apparently they had been allocated to Porsche (that's what I was told??). I guess it makes sense to have lighter box where possible in a performance car, not sure how much weight the wet clutch is over the dry, just hope it can cope with the high load. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 14:38
What Automatic? - Dog
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Does your Golf + DSG sound anything like this, Rudy: www.youtube.com/watch?v=un5tpXHzbZU ;-) |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 22:03
What Automatic? - Rudedog
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Sorry I couldn't help but post this.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI702gHL2Iw Last edited by: Rudedog on Wed 4 Jan 17 at 22:06
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 15:37
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> I readsomewhere that there are six versions of the DSG box currently in use by >> VW and people who drive a variety of cars say they do vary. We have >> the a 7 speed wet clutch version in our Tiguan. >> A lot of people who jumped on the Passat Alltrack leasing glitch hate its DSG >> - it's interesting that although it's a more powerful version of the same engine as >> in Tiguan, and it has the same 4Motion system, it makes do with a 6 >> speed dry clutch DSG. The only dry clutch version is the 7 speed DQ200. If it was a 6 speed, it was a wet clutch. The DQ200 7 speed is good for <=250Nm - probably not enough for the 140ps+++ turbodiesel in the Alltrack, which I am sure would have a wet clutch variant. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 17:19
What Automatic? - Bill Payer
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>> The only dry clutch version is the 7 speed DQ200. If it was a 6 >> speed, it was a wet clutch. >> Ah, fair enough - it's definitely 6 speed so must be the DQ250. I thought there was more of a mix of dry and wet clutch - didn't realise there was just one dry version. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 17:35
What Automatic? - Manatee
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More efficient (no oil to pump around) as well as lighter was the declared reason for the DQ200; both being being appropriate in the smaller, lowered powered cars for which it was developed. The 'problems' with it AIUI were mainly to do with using the wrong oil in the filled-for-life mechatronic unit - or at least they were "fixed" by changing to a different oil by c. 2013. I'm not sure that VAG even did a recall here, although it did in other parts of the world, mainly the hotter ones. The later-designed 7 speed wet clutch ones apparently don't have as much oil to stir as the earlier 6 speed for similar reasoning, and can handle (depending on build, presumably) up to 600Nm so one would hope that they are very robust. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 21:56
What Automatic? - Rudedog
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| Yes they did recall the 7-speed's in the UK, my Dad has one and the oil was changed back to a mineral type to solve the issue. |
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New Wed 4 Jan 17 23:49
What Automatic? - Manatee
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>> Yes they did recall the 7-speed's in the UK, my Dad has one and the >> oil was changed back to a mineral type to solve the issue. Thanks. Our Roomster was built sometime after November 2013 going by the dates on the plastic bits, so presumably has had the mineral oil from the start. |
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New Thu 5 Jan 17 11:35
What Automatic? - zippy
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I am looking for a newish (ex demo or similar - under 10k miles) automatic. Looking at Hyundais at the moment. The i30 looks interesting and is a good price, especially with the 5 year unlimited mileage warranty - I do 28,000 miles a year. The auto boxes are DCT, which is Dual Clutch Technology and I understand that they are dry clutches, not wet. Are there any known problems - i.e. should I avoid and look elsewhere? |
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New Fri 13 Jan 17 11:39
What Automatic? - Rudedog
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Just to reopen this with the current weather... A DSG in snow is a nightmare unless you have the winter (W) button, mine was a year too early so have the problem of only being able to try and pull away on snow/ice in first gear with a high torque engine, you can't then change up even in manual until a certain speed has been reached. Just have to learn to use the small amount of built in creep to move you and keep off the gas, luckily only just had 4 x new Michelins fitted 2 weeks ago which probably helped. How do other autos cope with slippery conditions? |
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New Fri 13 Jan 17 12:12
What Automatic? - rtj70
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I've wondered why my DSG equipped A3 does;t have a winter button. The few other DSG equipped cars (one Golf GTD, one Passat CC and another A3) didn't have a winter button either. My first company car was an Astra 1.4 auto. I know it's not a DSG! But it had a winter button and only had 90PS. Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 13 Jan 17 at 12:13
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New Fri 13 Jan 17 14:11
What Automatic? - Rudedog
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| Oh OK, I thought the W button was standard on newer DSGs, I can't believe it was an option? Unless it's one of those things fitted to Euro cars (German) and not the UK market, takes a light right foot to get it into 2nd without spinning the wheels and loosing traction. |
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New Fri 13 Jan 17 12:58
What Automatic? - VxFan
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>> How do other autos cope with slippery conditions? Been driving an auto since 1996. Never had a problem. The first few cars had a snowflake button which aided pulling away on slippery surfaces, but I never had to use it. My Astra is my first auto without the snowflake button, but being a tip-tronic gearbox I can manually select higher gears (even when stationary) if necessary. Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Jan 17 at 12:58
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New Tue 24 Jan 17 13:05
What Automatic? - henry k
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>> >> How do other autos cope with slippery conditions? >> The first few cars had a snowflake button which aided pulling away on slippery surfaces, but I never had to use it. >> I have just found out that my auto X type has the facility to start in second gear. Yes I have RTFM and it is not specifically mentioned. I need to switch to manual selection using the "J gate feature " and when 4th is selected (inhibit 5th) it will start off from stationary in 2nd. |
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New Fri 13 Jan 17 14:17
What Automatic? - Bill Payer
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>> A DSG in snow is a nightmare unless you have the winter (W) button, mine >> was a year too early so have the problem of only being able to try >> and pull away on snow/ice in first gear with a high torque engine, you can't >> then change up even in manual until a certain speed has been reached. >> I'm wondering about this on our late 2015 DSG 4Motion Tiguan. Oddly (as you get it on Passat Alltrack and the latest Tiguan) it doesn't have any "off-road" function selector and it doesn't even have a basic W button. I did think it was possible to manually select a higher gear but I'm not sure now. IIRC even on my Merc selecting, say, 3rd just means it's limited up to 3rd gear, it still starts in 1st. I have put full winter tyres on Tiguan - probably a bit mad really, but VW sent loads to dealers for demo purposes. The dealers never fitted them and sold on them eBay so I got them cheap. |
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New Tue 24 Jan 17 16:34
What Automatic? - Boxsterboy
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My VW Transporter with 6-speed (wet clutch?) DSG is now up to 55,000 miles and has always changed just as I would like, with no low-speed hesitation. No problems, no worsening of gear-change over time, etc. Absolutely fine. Mrs BB's Ford S-Max has a Powershift box. It has never been as good as the DSG at low speed, but is fine on the move. No reliability issues with this either, now on 70,000. It was one of the first Ford Powershifts and it was quite comical when I asked the dealer to change the fluid on it. Them: "we can't service those gearboxes". Me: "then can you please direct me to a Ford garage that can service my Ford?" Still not sure if they would make a good second-hand buy a few years down the line... |
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New Wed 8 Mar 17 10:03
What Automatic? - Bobby
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I had a test drive in a brand new Civic 1 litre turbo CVT on Saturday. First time I have driven a CVT and was very impressed with the complete lack of gear surge. Think the Auris / Lexus CT hybrids will definitely be on the agenda for the next car change. Although Honda have just released stats to basically say they will be going heavy on hybrids and electrics in the near future so will be interested in their offer. Interestingly, for those who know what I am talking about, Honda have dropped the magic seats from the new Civic. This was the 2nd biggest factor in my decision to buy my current Civic and would most probably rule out me buying another one now. They are ideal for dog owners. |
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New Wed 8 Mar 17 10:26
What Automatic? - devonite
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| I've had a couple of Auto's before (Triumph 2500, Cortina, Senator, Prelude,) and now the Skoda, and I have found this one to be the smoothest of them all. It's DSG 6-speed, and what would be described as high mileage (80000), still smooth - you hardly know it's changed! |
Forum Version 3.0 - By Khoosys
Car4play Forum
