With my mum dying last month I have decided that you only live once and in combination with a small inheritance, it has given me the opportunity to buy something I really fancy.
The car in question is a Lexus IS 300h, prob a 2014 example with the top spec but at around 18 grand, it is more money than I have ever parted with for a car, let alone a used car, so I am feeling extra cautious since I cannot repeat the purchase.
Has anyone got any insight into their used car scheme, dealer experiences or even of the model in question?
I have wanted a Lexus for as long as I can remember and this model ticks every box I can think of on paper, so I feel I owe it to myself to look at it closely, even if I don't go for it in the end.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts on the IS300h after only a brief test drive:
1. Only cars with above SE spec have folding rear seats.
2. The foot operated parking brake is not nice - go and try one. Ratchet parking brake.
3. Emissions on anything other than the poverty spec lower models is higher than some normal cars (diesels and especially petrols) due to tyre size.
With my lengthy test drive a few years ago I wanted to like it. I didn't.
As a car to drive I preferred the Mazda6. But the interior especially was dated (for the 6).... they fixed the problems I had with it (DAB, the infotainment in general, the dash itself, etc)
If you're after a Lexus get a proper one like an LS!
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 18 Nov 16 at 01:20
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>>1. Only cars with above SE spec have folding rear seats.<<
Noted. I have been looking at the Premium spec only as I want heated seats but hadn't spotted that detail.
>>3. Emissions on anything other than the poverty spec lower models is higher than some normal cars (diesels and especially petrols) due to tyre size.<<
Road tax is £10 a year which seemed reasonable tbh.
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>> I have wanted a Lexus for as long as I can remember
A strange statement to be honest because the first Lexus I considered was the first IS in 1999. The LS was around before then and probably the GS. This was the one with the chronograph style speedometer.
I was accosted by Lexus staff on the stand at the NEC. A nice one was in budget as a company car. I got a Golf GTI 1.8T.... it was nicked in 6 months :-)
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It's always good to scratch an itch, and I expect I'd be doing the same in your position.
I will just chuck in my tuppence worth though.
I gradually spent more and more on cars, which were progressively more expensive to run (fuel, tax, insurance) and my last "expensive" car was a 1 year old 2.5l Titanium X Mondeo (with extras) at something around the £12 - £13k mark. While I loved it at first, it turned out to be a bit of a potential money pit (well, an actual money pit when the engine required replacement!!) , and on losing a job I decided to get rid of it, and part ex'd it for a near-new Fiesta for SWMBO and I took on her old low mileage poverty spec Focus.
With hindsight I am pleased I had the "fancy" cars but I am also happy now driving round in a beat up old car which owes me nothing and is cheap as chips to run. I seem to get to places just as quickly as I did before, and when I get there I can park much more easily and not worry too much if a door gets dinged, though to be fair generally my mileage is much less than it used to be. I have done a long cross-Europe journey in it and the comfort level isn't as good but I got by.
So I don't know what you usually spend on a car but do consider that it will inevitably cost quite a bit of non-recoverable dosh the further up the market you go.
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As you say, this will be a once only purchase. Do you really want to put your cash into a depreciating money pit? Your choice, but a big, old car would not be my choice of transport.
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>> Your choice, but a big, old car would not be my choice of transport.
And IS300h won't be that old. It's not that big really either.
We can assume because it's a Toyota/Lexus it will be reasonably reliable. There's plenty of Prius on the road so the hybrid setup must be okay. Although the IS300h has a 2.5 litre engine and not the 1.8 in the Prius. Still has a CVT box though.
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My exex asked me for car advice over ten years ago, and I recommended she bought a 2yo Lexus IS200 SportCross. She wanted 5 doors, reliability and nice build quality. It has been treated like the inside of a skip ever since.. Back seats permanently down for removal of garden waste. Get the picture. In 10+ years it has only needed an annual oil change, new tyres, battery, alternator and new clutch last month. As a favour I valeted it recently. Came up like new, apart from the minor dents in every panel and scratches on every corner. All the switchgear is still tactile, lots of toys and I even offered her a grand for it.
My only experience of Lexus, but she loves it.
It's an '03 plate, very little sign of rust, and she won't be parting with it anytime soon
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 18 Nov 16 at 09:03
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As pointed out, for many of us there's a curve where you buy more and more expensive cars, then one day think it's costing way too much and you start to downsize again.
For me, I tried an IS and thought at the time it felt like a jumped up Ford Escort, so I went Lexus GS instead and loved it. Then I just sat in an LS one day and wanted one instantly. I got that, and really loved it - way nicer somehow. Even on pickup - and this was a secondhand car - they did the special handover. Presentation wooden case with champagne in it, pulled back a cloth to reveal it, all totally over the top. Free carwash at any dealer on any Saturday, with free coffee and pastries while you wait. Regular invite out to country homes to drive the latest models as you chose, free refreshments and many sir/madam callings. Free loan of the latest model for a day's test drive, not even fuel required.
Don't know if they still do all that stuff for top model owners, and it might not float your boat even if they do of course.
I did notice the dealers seemed to treat me a bit "better" at service as well, although everything has a price. The timing belt service alone was £1200 odd.
Then I discovered just how much money it was really costing me just to get from A to B, with someone calling me sir and making me a coffee thrown in, so I decided I'd got it out of my system and moved on to other much cheaper much smaller things.
So from that, I'd say - whichever Lexus you pick it may satisfy your itch. Excellent. Be aware there is always a nicer more expensive model you may go green about (current LS600h is probably the equivalent of the LS I had), and then it just gets more and more expensive. and sooner or later, you may suddenly wake up in a cold sweat and realise you can save a fortune doing something else.
But by the same token I absolutely wouldn't have missed the experience. Go for it.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 18 Nov 16 at 10:13
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>>Thoughts?
Spend the money, keep the economy ticking over. Good on you for bucking the Brexit negativity.
Can't help but feel that you'd be better off putting it into a pension though. Remember your old mum every month after you're 65 rather than until somebody keys your new car and slashes the tyres and you drive it into a bollard and you regret the expense. £20 per week in your retirement will surely be more fun - she can pay for your petrol until you die.
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>> £20 per week in your retirement will surely be more fun -
>> she can pay for your petrol until you die.
Cheers, mum, I blew the cash and had a couple of years of fantastic motoring, great memories
or
Cheers mum, I've just slapped some fuel in an old banger in Tesco, think of you next week when I'm getting some screenwash.
Hmm..
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Other than perception/social status, nowadays I struggle to differentiate between luxury and common brands.
The electronic features (and often many other creature comforts) are more or less same in all similar spec cars.
The luxury brand cars are often unecessarily wider - which makes life difficult during parking (even with all gizmos to assist parking because you still have to open door physically to get out/in). Length/height does not usually matter.
And after few months luxury does not feel luxury any more (human psychology).
PS: Lexus is very good brand while still being reliable :)
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I get a nice car with my job. That is nice. But come the day I don't, I'll almost certainly buy an ordinary car with my own money.
My fortunes have lurched from relative prosperity to relative poverty and back again a few times in my life and if I've learned nothing else from that, I've learned to never quite trust that things will always be the same.
Nice cars give me pleasure because they're nice, ordinary cars give me pleasure because they're affordable. Depends where you are on the scale at the time I suppose.
If you feel like treating yourself and you can afford to, then why not. But if you can see that it might become a millstone in the future...
Enjoy whatever you do Stuu.
;-)
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If you really want that car buy it. The only thing I would say is give it six months before you decide. It surprising how the urge to buy something really changes over that period and you might well find that you have decided on different priorities.
If that happens its best that you haven't yet parted with the money! Of course if you still want the car then waiting a few months only means that you will enjoy it all the more
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With regards to the larger Lexus models, they don't really interest me - remember, for my job I spend much of my day in high end cars, so I am somewhat immune to the draw of shiny things, my love of Lexus comes from having cleaned an IS and being mighty impressed with the fit & finish ( esp the paint ), plus it isn't German ( I find German brands have rather OTT interiors, nor that good quality up close ). My love of Lexus actually started in the late 90's when I drove a 1992 LS400 with 500k on the clock - still silent at tickover, astonishing for its time.
It also isn't any more expensive than a Prius give or take a few quid, but I prefer a saloon as it keeps my valeting kit isolated from the cabin and I like the interior design more. I also prefer CVT boxes, so that is a bonus me.
This is only a small part of a bigger inheritance when my dad passes on, so the pension bit is covered, plus as my mum dying at 63 makes clear, life can be shorter than anticipated so I want to live a little. I am not spending anywhere near half what I am getting so I am not stretching by any means, I could buy a new IS if I wanted, but I just cant psychologically part with that much money just to have something brand new, it is just a car after all.
I am not set on the Lexus yet, there are a few other hybrids that interest me too, but it is the most expensive so the hardest for me to justify to myself - I am resisting the urge to go ultra safe and buy a Mitsubishi Mirage auto for £13k, my wife is the one saying life is too short to not get something you really want for a few quid more.
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>>my wife is the one saying life is too short
It ain't necessarily so.
Tis the luck of the draw really - My father shuffled orf at the grand age of 54, but my mother lived 'til her 88th year.
diito my wife's mother - expired at the age of just 45, whereas my FiL smoked his final snout at age 88.
If there is to be any peace, it can only come from being, not having.
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Hmm apologies I seem to have kicked off a rather negative response to your thoughts.
It's worth thinking about both sides but what I didn't quite say in so many words was that I didn't regret the more expensive cars, and looking back I still don't. I have a mate who is "waiting" for his inheritance as he wants to own a DB7 (I think it is, it changes monthly) for a short time - maybe just a summer.
"Windfall" money is designed to be frittered away anyway isn't it? Just remember that one day you'll have to drop back to reality :-)
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>> I have a mate who is "waiting" for his inheritance as he wants to own a DB7
A bloke down the road from me has had quite a few tasty cars over the years. The DB7 he had though was anything but tasty. It left quite a sour taste in his wallet. He was glad to see the back of it. Gone back to Porsche now and is well happy with the build quality.
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>> "Windfall" money is designed to be frittered away anyway isn't it? Just remember that one
>> day you'll have to drop back to reality :-)
>>
And a few quid in the bank will be a very good friend.
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>> I get a nice car with my job. That is nice. But come the day
>> I don't, I'll almost certainly buy an ordinary car with my own money.
>>
My last company car was a BMW 535d estate, in 2005. List price somewhere around £40k
The first car I bought with my own money was a new BMW 120d...at half the price :)
So I thought that once...who'd spend *that* much of their own money on a car...
But it's got to be spent at some point, and rather by me than some b***er that didn't work for it, or the taxman ;)
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>> But it's got to be spent at some point, and rather by me than some b***er that didn't work for it, or the taxman ;)
Peter, I absolutely get your logic ( ? ), if we were talking about mountain bikes. They don't count when it comes to budgeting. And what's more, you can get away with buying really good ones without anyone on the domestic front particularly noticing or objecting, mainly because they'd never in a million years believe what really good ones actually cost. Sort of win win really...
;-)
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>>Cheers Mum etc...
I know which I would enjoy more! Fortunately not everybody is like me.
A car is a liability, not an asset. It's a commitment to pay out large sums of money every month that you own it!
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IS 300H is replaced early next year with a new model.
Whilst you say you are buying 2nd hand there will be a clearance of the "old model" - pre-reg with maybe £5K+ off - this will ripple down & the prices of a 3 year old model will fall,
There could be a deal to be done - just watch the prices over the coming months.
My son & DiL have / had 2 Lexi - both have been very reliable - IS needed a water pump @ 70K (common to many Toyotas) & the one they have currently has had servicing, brake pads & tyres + recalls but no repairs @ 60K+ & 5 years.
The Hybrid gets 50+mpg with DiL driving, son gets about 55mpg when he drives.
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Didn't know about the new model, that is interesting and could as you say be leverage for a better deal. Excellent tip thanks.
50 mpg sounds more than reasonable in the real world, it would put my fuel costs in the same ballpark as my Daihatsu, only insurance costs would be a bit more expensive.
Any ideas what servicing costs on the smaller models? I am assuming not cheap, but is it worth shopping around? Not sure how the pricing structure works, I know you can pre-pay for servicing.
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Lexus garage.15 miles away from me is expensive. £400+ for a service
Local Toyota dealer is reasonable & the technology is shared with Auris & Rav4 hybrids - around half the price.
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Me, I would keep the money. You've summed it up when you said it'll be once only! You'll regret it I'm sure.
What I would do if I wanted a bit of luxury and shove is to find a decent XJ 3.2 V8. They are out there. A friend obtained basically a one owner car, 70k miles. Totally immaculate and in the correct Sea Green I believe it is called. It was owned by Land Rover, Chauffeur driven, sold to the Chauffeur who eventually had to give up driving. It's a beaut.
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Once you've had a decent car, then you will never want to go back to leggy, baggy old things.
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What's your definition of a decent car then? Mine's one that starts in the morning and will hold a dozen sacks of compost. Ability to receive Radio 4 is an advantage. . I guess I'm easily pleased ;-)
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 18 Nov 16 at 19:36
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You're married too I understand :-)
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Just spend it on that Lexus!
My first decent car that I spent far too much on was a second hand mk1 GTI then a spanking new Mk1 205 GTI. With my crystal ball I saw the future ( or not) with the exex and ordered an Elise (R715 GYG) which I took delivery of shortly after the unpleasantness.
All money I could have sensibly put into a pension
But those motors gave me huge amounts of pleasure. ( snigger)
Far more than any pension ever would. As did a couple of other more recent motors, intersperced with bangernomics ( my £950 Mazda 626 & current £2k Focus).
As regular readers know, I'm a great believer in spending it whilst you can, just don't borrow or get into debt over lumps of metal.
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I can't remember having anything on the drip since the late 70s. Have had a bank loan every few years to upgrade our cars........mostly used ones. I made sure SWM had something decent but I was very happy with 50 quidders for a long time. I commuted a 70 mile round trip in a series..Ren 5, Opel Kadette Estate, Volvo 340, Mini 850 and Polo all come to mind. Bangernomcs at it's best !
I think the last bank loan was paid off about 1990. Paid in full for everything ever since
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>> Once you've had a decent car, then you will never want to go back to
>> leggy, baggy old things.
Agreed.
But these days a £2k 10-year-old car with 150k miles is not a leggy baggy old thing. It's a good chance of being almost as good as the day it was built.
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>> But these days a £2k 10-year-old car with 150k miles is not a leggy baggy
>> old thing. It's a good chance of being almost as good as the day it
>> was built.
>>
Mapmaker, NO!
Maybe if the original car was £50k and 1 owner and has a maintenance budget spent on it that reflects its original price then that may be true
My almost 10yr old, 120k example - most definitely not.
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Hmm, not sure they're all ready for the scrap heap just because of high mileage. My experience of running several cars up to 200,000 miles is pretty positive. Three consecutive Mondeo diesel estates managed to do that for me with no problems at all despite an alleged reputation for clutch fragility, and more recently a Mercedes E Class diesel estate did the same. They were all still passing MOTs without advisories when they were sold on. The Merc in particular looked and drove like new when it went. It felt like it'd do another 200,000 if required.
I do think it's a bit of a function of how they are used though, most of my driving is long distance where engines get properly warm and many miles are spent cruising at motorway speeds as opposed to hacking about in local traffic with a cold engine.
I have also always ensured that they were kept serviced on time and to a good standard. Not always main dealer in the case of the non-company vehicles, but always to the schedules recommended.
I'd have no hesitation in buying a cheap high mileage car provided I could satisfy myself that it had a proper service history and hadn't been in an accident.
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Well ive been over it all several times now and I cant talk myself out of looking at one, so that is the next step.
I am also looking at a Kia Optima, a Toyota Auris Hybrid Estate, a Kia Ceed Estate and just for laughs, an Infiniti Q30 to satisfy my curiosity.
Bit of a diverse bunch of motors, so I am hoping one jumps out at me from the pack.
Not sure what to do with the Charade since its trade in value is virtually zero and I do have space free in my garage to park it up, if as some have suggested I may want an old banger in the future, better the banger you know...
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>>an Infiniti Q30 to satisfy my curiosity.
Newish Q50s are often cheaper than Q30s
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>>Newish Q50s are often cheaper than Q30s <<
So I have seen, but the Q50 is also £200+ more a year to insure and a bit heavier on fuel. Swings and roundabouts and all that.
My biggest worry with Infiniti would be will they even be in the UK in 5 years time, I cant believe they sell the volume to justify it, interesting though their cars are to a chap like me who likes something a bit leftfield.
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>>> but the Q50 is also £200+ more a year to insure and a bit heavier on fuel. Swings and roundabouts and all that.<<<
If you are worried about £200 I am not sure that a Lexus is the car for you. Maintenance and spares can be eye wateringly expensive.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 19 Nov 16 at 12:16
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>>If you are worried about £200 I am not sure that a Lexus is the car for you. Maintenance and spares can be eye wateringly expensive.<<
I don't mind paying to maintain a car correctly, but lining the pockets of insurance companies, not so much, especially when I don't see the £200 is a worthwhile extra spend for that particular model.
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Always handy to have a spare car if you've got somewhere to store it. There was a thing a few years back where you could register your car with a hire company type thing. Not sure if it still exists but I think the idea was that they would broker it being hired out. Might be a way of generating a bit of pocket money from it if you're not using it yourself. Dunno. ;-)
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nice but dim YES!
My 11.5 year-old 165k Accord is almost as good as the day it left the factory. It has a few scratches on the outside, because it lives on the street. A new car would have acquired exactly the same scratches over the period - if not more.
I paid £2,900 for it from a dealer with 25 cars in a field 5 years ago with 135k. I reckon it would cost £2,000 today (though I'd expect fewer scratches for that money). So that's £200 depreciation p.a. and maybe I've spent £1,000 on it beyond ordinary servicing.
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>>But these days a £2k 10-year-old car with 150k miles is not a leggy baggy old thing. It's a good chance of being almost as good as the day it was built.
My 9 year-old 81,000 mile Forester is as good as the day it was Bjorn, which is why I'm a tad hesitant about replacing it.
Dependable Jatco transmission, electric panoramic sunroof, electric heated/folding mirrors, heated seats, even a heated windscreen wiper defrosting element built into the windscreen, not that I've ever had to use it down here :)
I've even looked at a phew new cars - they all seem to look the same to me = boring as f*** with dodgy automatic transmissions. Even the Lexus models look naff to me, maybe need a Jowett Javelin (or a frontal lobotomy)
8-}
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Why not just scrap it Doggo having first sold me the engine at a nominal sum. I'll come down and pick it up.
I might just be able to tease the mill into the Jowett. I would have had a go if I could have gotten a Sub 13/1600 OHV from the 70s. Not an 1800 Pig though but !
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Course, I'm forgetting your Jowett has a boxer - I'd miss not having a flat-four if I bought something as mundane as a CR-V ... or a Rav4, especially the later models with CVT's.
Been looking at the Tiguan too = DSG (say n'more)
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Stuu,
I purchased a used 2 year old Lexus CT200h last year from a dealership as "used approved"
The experience was just "OK" - I've not seen the fantastic Lexus service that everyone raves about and I've used 2 different dealerships who are part of different dealer groups - maybe the hype left me expecting to much, or maybe its because I've bought the baby of the range I'm less important - not sure.
Prep of the car at pick up was not great, but it did have a full tank of petrol which I had not negotiated, so that was a nice surprise. Requested a quote for a service plan a couple of times but never received it, and they did try to sell me an extended warranty, but it was the dealerships own warranty and not the Lexus warranty. It was more expensive and covered less, so when I pointed this out to the sales guy he was a little irritated and wasn't interested in selling me the official warranty (car came with 12 months anyway). When I received a call asking for feedback on my buying experience I was honest and knocked them a bit for the warranty and never giving a service plan quote - few days later I had a voice mail left by the dealer principle saying Lexus had contacted him in relation to my feedback and he wanted to talk with me to understand the issues an try to put them right - I called him back and he was always not available, or busy so I left several messages saying to call me if he wanted to discuss further, but the call never came........
I switched to my nearer dealer for servicing, and they are efficient, but first time they serviced it the pressure washer broke so it was returned dirty, second time they washed it, but only just and when I booked it in I had asked them to look at something, but at pick up they clearly hadn't and just waffled. All in all not deal breakers, but I would say the service I used to get from my VW dealership was better overall
Now the positives - I took a bit of flyer and bought this one with 100K on it in just 2 years - I took the view if they were prepared to sell it as used approved with a full warranty it was worth a punt. 19 months and 30K later it has been faultless. I purchased the extended warranty after a year - it was £495 for 2 years including full European breakdown cover, and the warranty is very comprehensive - its the same as new car except I don't think it covers interior trim, and is unlimited in mileage
Last service I had they gave me an IS300 loaner - it was brand new - 3 miles on the clock. I absolutley loved it, it had a real premium feel to me. I reset the trip and it gave about 49 mpg when I had it - it was still tight, and I did stretch its legs a bit - when stuck in the variables on the motorway it crept up to almost 60 MPG. The CVT box is an aquired taste - many people moan about it droaning, but that only when you really push on, and only briefly - the plus side is that when you back of the throttle it drops off to tickover so makes for very quite and relaxed motorway driving experience.
The only way to tell if its for you is to try, I think its a bit like marmite, but for me its a strong contender to replace the CT, but the reality is the CT meets my needs and continues to be faultless so I cant see me changing anytime soon.
You also mentioned the premium model to get the heated seats - look at the executive model - its a fleet special so the dealers often have them registered as demos and looks pretty good value for spec vs cost
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When I looked at the IS300h there was an offer that meant to cars came with the sat nav package for free and the list price didn't increase either - important for BIK.
But for BIK reasons, only the SE's on the smaller wheels made sense and the seats did not fold. The higher spec models cost a lot more in BIK/tax because the emissions were higher. In fact as high as my non-hybrid 1.4 turbo petrol Audi.
What I particularly disliked was the foot operated parking brake.
I assume you've actually driven one of these Stuu if you're seriously considering buying one?
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>>I assume you've actually driven one of these Stuu if you're seriously considering buying one?<<
Not yet, I plan to in the next few weeks, although I have driven various other Lexus models, most recently an IS 250, so I have a rough idea of what the brand offers.
I wanted to be sure it was worth the trip out as the nearest dealer is 25 miles away and I may make a moderate attempt to look like I can afford to buy one ( as opposed to my well dressed tramp attire that I usually wear ).
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>> have driven various other Lexus models, most recently an IS 250
Totally different engines to the 2.5l in the IS300h. But with a CVT and hybrid technology as well, I suppose irrelevant.
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I may make a moderate attempt to look like I
>> can afford to buy one ( as opposed to my well dressed tramp attire that
>> I usually wear ).
>>
A good opportunity to go in looking like someone from Shameless and see how you're treated Stew.!
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>>A good opportunity to go in looking like someone from Shameless and see how you're treated Stew.!<<
You mean how I normally dress? :-)
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If you drive a better car than your customers they will think you are charging too much!
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>>If you drive a better car than your customers they will think you are charging too much!<<
When your customers have things like a yacht with permanent crew and an aeroplane with runway in their front garden, one cant help but think I will still appear to be in relative poverty :-)
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If I had a yacht with crew or my own private aeroplane, I'd also have my own staff to clean my fleet of cars. Just saying.
If someone turned up to clean my Rolls Royce in a Daihatsu Charade they'd not get past security!
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>>If I had a yacht with crew or my own private aeroplane, I'd also have my own staff to clean my fleet of cars. Just saying.
If someone turned up to clean my Rolls Royce in a Daihatsu Charade they'd not get past security!<<
Perhaps that says more about how you would handle wealth than anything else.
My experience of those with decent wealth is that they are very down to earth and normal, just with a larger array of toys than most. Nobody has ever actually mentioned what car I drive, they mostly drive nice Jags and Range Rovers and are the sort of people who would consider a Rolls tacky.
New money are a different breed and well worth avoiding, old money however are more often than not charming, easy going folk who don't coat everything in gold.
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>> But for BIK reasons, only the SE's on the smaller wheels made sense and the
>> seats did not fold. The higher spec models cost a lot more in BIK/tax because
>> the emissions were higher. In fact as high as my non-hybrid 1.4 turbo petrol Audi.
>>
>> What I particularly disliked was the foot operated parking brake.
>>
Not sure which A3 you have but I'm guessing the 1.4T puts out somewhere around 110g
The entry level IS300 is 97, the worst of the hybrids is still only 107 for the F sport
Personal choice, but I would pick the extra 30bhp N/A 2.5 litre over a 1.4 Turbo
The foot brake took a day or so to get used to, and I did wonder why they didn't go for an electronic solution (maybe reliability concerns?) Not really something that bothers me or makes any difference to live with day to day, plus it frees the space in the center console.
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>> Not sure which A3 you have but I'm guessing the 1.4T puts out somewhere around 110g
The official CO2 figure for when I got it was 109g/km.
>> The entry level IS300 is 97, the worst of the hybrids is still only 107 for the F sport
But that's the SE on smaller wheels and the rear seats do not fold so I'd ruled that out. So the BIK rate for the larger wheeled variants were the same as the A3 but list price and monthly rental was higher. So the A3 saloon was cheaper.
>> Personal choice, but I would pick the extra 30bhp N/A 2.5 litre over a 1.4 Turbo
I never had a chance to try acceleration properly on the IS300h as I was on an accompanied test drive and I didn't want the guy who's car it was day to day to think I was trying to trash it :-)
In the end, by the time my paperwork came through to actually choose a car, the free sat nav option (which had more than just sat nav as an upgrade) was withdrawn so it got even more expensive! Hence not pursuing a longer test drive.
>> The foot brake took a day or so to get used to
I'm sure I could get used to it but why not just have an electronic parking brake? Then there's no mechanical mechanism in the footwell. That's got to be harder to swap over for LHD than even a conventional hand brake.
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>> CVT box is an aquired taste - many people moan about it droning
Can you manually up/downshift in a CVT gearbox?
I do aspire to buy a Lexus one day but their modern radiator grill design just looks awful. Their older design was more elegant.
>> I purchased the extended warranty after a year - it was £495 for 2 years i
I wonder why don't the just include in the price and offer a longer warranty from start. For most Lexus buyers, such little increase in price won't matter (it surprises me that Toyota offers 5-yr warranty but Lexus doing only 3-yr).
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"Can you manually up/downshift in a CVT gearbox?"
My Mark2 Jazz CVT has floppy paddles.
I have used them at least 3 times in 4 years..
CVT driving is an easily acquired skill. Road testers are incapable of learning something new in my view..(that is a polite version of what I think:-)
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>>CVT driving is an easily acquired skill. Road testers are incapable of learning something new in my view..(that is a polite version of what I think:-) <<
Indeed, it requires different throttle inputs to other gearboxes but you soon learn to make it do what you want.
In the wife's Yaris CVT I gave the flappy paddles a go on holiday and got bored after a few miles, she has never used them once, I think it interferes with singing along to Take That.
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>> think it interferes with singing along to Take That.
I assume you're not in the car while that is going on.
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>>I assume you're not in the car while that is going on.<<
Of course not, it would be a violation of the marriage contract. No husband should be put through such an ordeal, I would rather go clothes shopping than that.
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>> CVT driving is an easily acquired skill. Road testers are incapable of learning something new
>> in my view..(that is a polite version of what I think:-)
>>
Absolutely - the CVT box is very efficient and relaxing to live with, however, Journalists always get in a car and test out its performance, and that is not where the CVT is best suited, it works best for 98% of the time for most people.
The IS I drove had the flappy paddles, but I didn't really see the point as they were "simulated" gears. It also had the noise thing where you get simulated engine noise under hard acceleration - fun twice then I turned it off
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Well, interesting trip out. I had a very good look at one and concluded that the boot just isn't big enough for what I need, which is a shame because the rest of the car is very nice indeed, but it looks very much bigger in pictures than online.
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When you drove the IS250 I'd have had a cheeky look (after asking) in the boot.
Can you can why the SE spec is a bad choice if the rear seats don't fold.
When I drove the Lexus I expected (Wanted) to like it more than I did. Now I'm sure a GS would be a lot nicer.
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>> Well, interesting trip out. I had a very good look at one and concluded that
>> the boot just isn't big enough for what I need, which is a shame because
>> the rest of the car is very nice indeed, but it looks very much bigger
>> in pictures than online.
>>
Perhaps an estate is what you need - XF sportbrake......
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>> Perhaps an estate is what you need - XF sportbrake......
Funny you should mention the XF Sportbrake. I am surprised how cheap they are in relative terms. I was looking out of curiosity. Hence a reference the other day about a 3.6l V6 petrol too... in that instance in a Skoda Superb (previous model) which are a good price. Probably because of high VED?
I still think you'd be impressed by the rising gear selector and the air-vents turning around to open.... until of course they stopped working and turned out to be very expensive to fix.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 20 Nov 16 at 19:20
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I think in the UK people are scared of larger units and just assume ruinous running costs - reality is probably that the rapid depreciation means that if you buy at the right price the overall cost of ownership is probably not that bad.
Its the same as people selling up taking a massive hit to get into zero VED ratedcars to save £200 a year
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I'm with you there mikeyb on why people take a massive hit to get free or £20 a year VED. It will take decades to make a difference.
If you got a large petrol instead of a smaller turbo diesel, MPG is down and VED is up. But if you got a top spec car for a low price.
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>>If you got a large petrol instead of a smaller turbo diesel, MPG is down and VED is up. But if you got a top spec car for a low price.<<
Doesn't seem to make much difference to the price, certainly not enough to offset £700-900 extra running costs.
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Depends on how new a car you want I suppose.
I've just searched for the IS300h second hand on auto trader.... cheap as chips! A car from around the time I looked/test drove is £12k. So that depreciated well for second hand buyers.
About the same as a Skoda Superb 3.6l 4x4 estate of the same year. Older Superbs are a lot cheaper.
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>>Depends on how new a car you want I suppose <<
No more than two years old.
The Kia is 6 months old, 7k miles and ticks every box, even has over 6 years warranty on it and at £18k it is good value.
If I wanted to blow the money on giving the government fuel duty I would buy an old Toyota Camry, but I'm not going that way this time.
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Did the higher VED rates come into effect for post 2004 reg vehicles? And I think the 3.6 4x4 Skoda Superb was only available with the DSG box which would put me off 100%
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>> available with the DSG box
There isn't 'the DSG'. Even VAG have at least 4 different dual clutch gearboxes. One of them dry clutch (a 7 speed) and then the others.
I'm not sure I'd go for a DSG either. But I like autos. So maybe a ZF in the Jaguar XF?
The long warranty on the KIA must be appealing too.
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>>The long warranty on the KIA must be appealing too.<<
Very. The Optima is a dual clutch jobbie and it is covered by the warranty so the salesman said, which would make it a comfortable long term prospect, more so than anything else.
I have pretty much decided it will be an Optima now, just a case of waiting for the right car in the right spec/colour to come on the market.
There is one available and at a good price but I still have to wait a few weeks before I can sign on a dotted line, so it may disappear yet.
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The Optima (and other Kias) are good looking cars. But then the lead designer was Peter Schreyer. He designed the original Audi TT too. He works for Luc Donckerwolke.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 20 Nov 16 at 23:16
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When I look at the interior of the Optima (and the current model Mazda6 before the facelift) it reminds me of the dated inside of the previous model Audi A4.
I discounted the A4 in 2011 partly because of the interior. So the Mazda6 wasn't as good as that so that was discounted in 2014.
Now the A3 back then was more like the TT. And now I like the new A4 too. The A6 is a bit dated.
In the near future I need to decide what car I have next. Getting new within a budget is easier than second hand!
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I know what you mean about the interior, but it is a nice enough place to sit and to be honest, it is a Kia being compared to an Audi, albeit an older one, which shows how far they have come from the Kia Pride. My sister was quite taken with the idea of a heated steering wheel, I am more bemused by it.
I would have liked something other than coal bunker black, but that is the only colour it comes in and the rest of the car makes up for it.
My wife reckoned it was 'sexy' in the metal and from some angles it is a bit Jaguar-esque, but my strongest impression was just how vast the thing is, small it isn't.
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So will it be the saloon or the sport wagon?
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>>So will it be the saloon or the sport wagon?<<
Saloon.
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>> Optima is a dual clutch jobbie
I think now all Kias from Ceed and upwards are DCT only for automatic models.
My Ceed is DCT and it is the last petrol version Kia produced. Currently Ceed DCTs are only diesel. It is fine so far, doesn't hesitate at all in selection. But I mostly drive in gentle manner. Occassionally throw it in manual mode and shift using flappy pedals. But 90% of the time I use it in normal D mode.
Sat inside Optima estate in dealership 2 weeks back. Nice car. My only worry is its size - not easy in multistorey parkings :)
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>> Did the higher VED rates come into effect for post 2004 reg vehicles? And I
>> think the 3.6 4x4 Skoda Superb was only available with the DSG box which would
>> put me off 100%
>>
Cars registered prior to 26 March 2006 which would normally fall into the £500 pa tax band only pay £295
www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html
Last edited by: madf on Mon 21 Nov 16 at 09:59
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I'd just find another way to get my kicks, BUT of course if you do serious mileage and want/need some luxury then do it, but as you say it's a once in a lifetime job. When the thing is worth naff then where do you go?
Don't wish to be grumpier than usual, but metal of unknown providence does not appeal especially when there is sooo much that will cost mega if it does all go TU.
😉
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Going back to the first post, Stuu, you said
"it has given me the opportunity to buy something I really fancy."
So you started with the (not totally enough) Crazy Lexus and now you apparently "really fancy" a Kia.
I'm sure it's lovely, but really, for a once in a lifetime? I thought we might end up with an old Aston or blowing it all on red at Vegas, not "something awfully sensible a bit newer than I have already"!
You don't think exactly like me. Shouldn't be allowed. It's outrageous.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 21 Nov 16 at 10:43
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Not everyone is a badge junkie, they are all bashed sheet steel with some seats and oily bits.
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>>they are all bashed sheet steel with some seats and oily bits.
True but, it's howl those bashed steel and oily bits are screwed together which matters - gimme a Jap-built jalopy any day.
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>> they are all bashed sheet steel
Audi A8, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Land Rover, & Jaguar - to name but a few use aluminium ;)
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So more expensive cars use worse quality metal?
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Why is aluminium worse than still in your opinion? Harder to fix accident damage granted.
There's quite a few using carbon fibre in construction - the core of the current 7-series BMW had a carbon fibre core.
Aluminium and carbon fibre reduce mass and therefore can either improve efficiency, performance, or have the same performance as a smaller engine.
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>> Why is aluminium worse than still in your opinion? Harder to fix accident damage granted.
So is carbon fibre, tricky stuff to repair.
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Steel is stronger than aluminium.
Is aluminium only used for body panels or chassis as well in those cars?
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Some cars use aluminium for some panels and others have all panels and even the chassis made of aluminium (e.g. the current Jaguar XJ). When the Audi A8 (first model, Typ 4D) was launched, it too had an aluminium body and chassis (called the Audi Space Frame).
I know the A8 needed to be repaired by specialist centres - but that was hardly surprising back in the mid 90s.
Other cars features aluminium front structures and body panels but that posed difficulties because of the reaction between the steel and aluminium in the chassis.
The easier thing to do is to have aluminium body panels, boot lids and bonnets. And some BMWs like the M3 CSL came with a carbon fibre roof.
The new Audi Q7 is now over 40% aluminium - doors, roof, floor, etc.
www.repairerdrivennews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2017-audi-q7-body-external.jpg
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>> Is aluminium only used for body panels or chassis as well in those cars?
The suspension components on the Vectra-C were made of cast aluminium, as was the bonnet - all for weight saving. Even humble cars are made using the stuff, and not always high end motors.
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>>So you started with the (not totally enough) Crazy Lexus and now you apparently "really fancy" a Kia.
You don't think exactly like me. Shouldn't be allowed. It's outrageous.<<
Haha, I am a man of simple needs and I am not snobbish about car brands, what matters to me is does it have what I want.
The idea of spending £20k on a car is enough of a struggle but my mum decreed I go on a car shopping trip so I am ignoring that aspect of it.
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>>my mum decreed I go on a car shopping trip so I am ignoring that aspect of it.
You have said in the past that "money can be tight".
With this in mind instead of blowing £20K on a car go "really good 2nd hand car" for 1/2 that or less than that.
There are gems out there - private owner, full service history on a quality car. It does not have to be a prestige brand, it doesn't have to be Japanese (but it helps!!)
It takes time to search around for a reliable car - unstressed engine, gearbox, not rust prone.......
Keep it a few years & if you fell like "another new car" you can maybe buy another. In the meantime you have a "rainy day fund" for what can turn up.
I worked abroad 46 years ago - came home. new house (almost paid for), new furniture throughout, garden sorted......bought new MGB GT (cash £1200).............but kept back £1500 ( earned £1300/year here when I came back) as a rainy day fund..........always have had a rainy day fund & it has been needed at times.
My 3 x boys always had a rainy day fund - Bank of Mum & Dad!! Car finance, House deposits etc etc - all paid back in a fair timescale.
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>
>> You have said in the past that "money can be tight".
>>
>> With this in mind instead of blowing £20K on a car go "really good 2nd
>> hand car" for 1/2 that or less than that.
I think he said this is only a small amount of the money he's inheriting.
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>>You have said in the past that "money can be tight".
With this in mind instead of blowing £20K on a car go "really good 2nd hand car" for 1/2 that or less than that.<<
The amount I am spending on the car is roughly 1/3 of the total I am going to get, so I will have plenty of rainy day money set aside.
The only older car that would interest me would be a Merc W123 but good ones of those are going for daft sums these days and I don't think they are worth it, nice as they are. Back in the late 90's I saw a 230 CE auto up for around 3 grand - how I wish id gone for it now!
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" I will have plenty of rainy day money set aside."
40k is not 'plenty of rainy day money' by any stretch of the imagination.
And a Kia? Can't believe you want a Kia.
Do what you like with it, it's your money. But don't expect me to agree with your man maths!
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>>40k is not 'plenty of rainy day money' by any stretch of the imagination.<<
It is if you live like I do, I am not sure quite how hard it would have to rain to need more than that tbh.
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This is a car forum and not economic advice forum :o)
Let people enjoy whatever their "dream" car definition is.
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> 40k is not 'plenty of rainy day money' by any stretch of the imagination.
Crickey, it must be some rainy day ! What is enough?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 21 Nov 16 at 12:16
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>> > 40k is not 'plenty of rainy day money' by any stretch of the imagination.
>>
>> Crickey, it must be some rainy day ! What is enough?
>>
A very rich widow..
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>>Crickey, it must be some rainy day ! What is enough
Depends on your age - working? maybe 6 or 9 months pay
Looking to retirement - put as much as you can
Retired?
Depends on your status - Homeowner + Inflation linked Pension 2 to 5 years retirement income IMHO.
Rented home & only state pension - you need megabucks.
My parents were not, on retiral, poor but High Inflation in the 70s/80s + living too long (80 & 90+) wiped them out financially.
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>> Depends on your age - working? maybe 6 or 9 months pay
>>
The average wage is 27k so I'd say it's plenty.
>> Looking to retirement - put as much as you can
Retired? Depends on your status - Homeowner + Inflation linked Pension 2 to 5 years retirement income IMHO.> Rented home & only state pension - you need megabucks.
I wouldn't say a rainy day fund is same as saving for a pension. I think of it as to pay for something sudden and unforeseen or a bit of a bit of spur of the moment purchase.
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>>I wouldn't say a rainy day fund is same as saving for a pension
I agree!
However with age your needs change - assuming you are fit & healthy you need a "buffer" to see you through major changes.
Rainy Day in retirement could be any time or multiple times in 20-30 years.
Neighbour 51 - Major Stroke, paralysed down one side - not a lot of savings, was self employed..... very hard does not describe his position.
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Once you start losing your teeth, implants are far better than false teeth.. But at c £2k each, you need a rainy day fund.. If you think NHS dentistry will provide, you'll be long dead without seeing them.
Highly recommended
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>>at c £2k each, you need a rainy day fund
Each!!! .. I'll knock that idea on the head then.
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>>Each!!! .. I'll knock that idea on the head then.<<
Me to. Mashed potato and gravy for dinner it is.
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>>Me to. Mashed potato and gravy for dinner it is.
Oh, you haven't got a liquidiser then :(
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>>Oh, you haven't got a liquidiser then :(<<
I aint that posh, I like Kias, remember? :-)
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>>I aint that posh, I like Kias, remember? :-)
I always had you down as Perodua, tovarich :)
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Anyone have experience of buying a used Lexus? - rtj70
