News emerging that Audi had software to change the way auto transmissions behaved under test conditions in addition to the defeat device
Apparently the software changed the shifting parameters if the steering did not move by more 15 degrees
tinyurl.com/nmuavta
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I am not surprised, they are badge engineered VWs or Skodas or SEATs or a few other brands.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 8 Nov 16 at 16:04
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>> in addition to the defeat device
There was no 'device'. It was software. So this news isn't news - it's part of the same set of software that was designed to get around the emission tests for diesels.
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Device is a totally appropriate word as applied to software,
a plan, method, or trick with a particular aim.
"writing a letter to a newspaper is a traditional device for signalling dissent"
synonyms: ploy, plan, cunning plan, tactic, move, means, stratagem, scheme, plot, trick, ruse, gambit, manoeuvre, machination, intrigue, contrivance, expedient, dodge, artifice, subterfuge, game, wile; informalwheeze;
"he found an ingenious legal device to avoid facing prosecution"
Or if you must have an English definition......
from OED
device
noun
1A thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.
‘a measuring device’
1.1A bomb or other explosive weapon.
‘an incendiary device’
2A plan, method, or trick with a particular aim.
‘writing a letter to a newspaper is a traditional device for signalling dissent’
2.1A form of words intended to produce a particular effect in speech or a literary work.
‘a rhetorical device’
3A drawing or design.
‘the decorative device on the invitations’
3.1An emblematic or heraldic design.
‘their shields bear the device of the Blazing Sun’
3.2archaic [mass noun]The design or look of something.
‘works of strange device’
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A device is something devised, which it certainly was.
Similarly, a contrivance is something contrived, which has more of an air of deceit or artificiality about it, so I'd go for that :)
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I disagree - the use of device to describe some programming of code does not make sense.
Treat the ECU in question as a black box and I'd say that was a device. But a few lines of code that change how a component (be it the gearbox or engine) operates is not a device in my opinion. The additional lines of code is in addition to that needed in normal operation.
I wonder how many ECUs were involved because it was not only the gearbox ECU for sure. The 'cheat' was based on the steering angle so the ECU involved in the steering system had to be communicated with for starters. As was the case in the engine ECU 'cheat' for the diesels.
So anything we're talking 'devices' anyway.
But how would this 'cheat' differentiate between driving in a straight-line and on a rolling road for an emissions test? Since this is an Audi there's a good chance it's a DSG and not a torque converter and therefore there's at least 4 modes you can select for the gearbox anyway:
- Economy
- Dynamic
- Auto
And of course you can put it in Sport too which hold onto gears longer and ignores the top gear.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 8 Nov 16 at 17:37
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Yet another thread crumbles into pedantry.
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I'm not being pedantic. It's some code in an ECU. It is not a device.
I know programming - you don't. I don't claim to know too much about submarines but you seem to.
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>> I'm not being pedantic. It's some code in an ECU. It is not a device.
Some code, a device, a contrivance, a trick, a fiddle, a fudge, a sneaky cheat, skulduggery, and a fraud:)
Standard business practice for large corporations where the senior management penalises anyone admitting to a problem. Haven't we all worked for one?
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>> Yet another thread crumbles into pedantry.
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Can thread crumble? Discuss.
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>> >> Yet another thread crumbles into pedantry.
>> >>
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>> Can thread crumble? Discuss.
>>
Cakes can crumble.
Some fruit pies are crumble.
And edifices can crumble.
The logical foundations of this thread crumbled after the first post :-)
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Does anyone believe that Audis are anything but VW parts bin cars with a marketing spin badge.
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Bentley's are too. I agree. A Lexus is a Toyota too. What's the problem?
But the parts in the bin that are available might be nicer parts than say Skoda are allowed to use.
None of the part bin/badging bit gets away from the cheating though. And all the car companies are at it.
You all might dislike the idea that the 'device' is just some software. But it is some lines of code that basically says: if I'm doing a test then do this... otherwise do something else.
Remember F1 banned launch control and then the teams started to put launch control into other ECUs to cheat. In the end McLaren became the sole supplier of a standard centralised ECU to circumvent cheating.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 8 Nov 16 at 20:17
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Only the touchie feelie bits, most of the oily bits are from the same box. These days that includes the electronics.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 8 Nov 16 at 20:21
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And it wasn't even cheating - it was bending rules.
So back to the gearbox cheat.... it probably did the same cheat when driving on straight roads (using steering angle as a check) so benefited real world driving emissions.
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Why don't the manufacturer's just say, "We cant meet your new criteria and we need to discuss"?
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Maybe because it might mean that their products are taxed out of existence. It has already started with diesels, see the Diesel pollution tax thread. It would be like giving politicians a stick to beat you with.
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It's a two way street. My Mother used to say. "The impossible we can do, Miracles take a little longer".
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It may be my very simple mind, but..... look at some diesel in a bucket and similarly some petrol. I have been ruggering about with both since a child. My very unscientific mind would clearly choose petrol as being 'cleaner'. The pursuit of MPG seems to have been the decider without worrying or thinking about the output. I don't blame the manufacturers. I blame the Wally's in government (or POWER as they would prefer it to be called).
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Slightly off tangent...a good friend of mine has a 61 plate Golf 2.0 Tdi. Last week he took it in for a 'software fix' at the local main dealer as per the letter. The following day the DPF warning light came on, but a high rev 15 mile drive cleared it. Ever since he gets lots of warning light, car goes into limp home mode. But after leaving it overnight the lights go off. Then they come back on again. Then off. Then on.
Purely coincidental to the 'software fix' according to VW.
Yeah right
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I guess if the two are connected there will have suffered the same problem - Anything online in the VW forums?
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I'll suggest that he has a look once out of hospital....I'm currently driving his car and hope it doesn't go into 'limp' mode when I bring him home tomorrow.
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I can't understand VW always made good cars and now they are messing it up.
If they can't get these emission right stop cheating and try something else.
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I suspect a lot depends on the competence or otherwise of the dealer's mechanics.
VERY difficult to control a recall of that size and complexity.
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Brought my friend home from hospital this afternoon. Discharged himself. Golf was fine there & back, 35 miles each way. Stopped at local shop one mile from home and ' limp' mode activated.
Return to hospital tomorrow at 7am so wonder if 'limp mode' will be deactivated when I switch engine on.
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In the news today VW are looking to cut 30,000 jobs. That's a huge number and about 5% of its 610,000 workforce.
It is either becoming more efficient, selling less cars because of the emissions scandal or subcontracting work out to other companies.
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Audi - Audi cheating emissions tests....again.... - Old Navy
