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Given many of VX's issues with diesel engines only manifest when 3 years older or more...
Last edited by: madf on Fri 14 Oct 16 at 13:22
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I'll be a'keeping my nine year old unreliable Subaru thanks.
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Errmm, no.
The only one we have had on the company 'fleet' was a '11 plate Insignia SRI 160hp diesel which whilst OK generally (a little bland), committed suicide last week, with the water pump / timing belt giving up the ghost and lunching the engine. Only about 120,000 miles on the clock.
Of course that does not mean every Vauxhall will by default be unreliable, but with the exception of the Astra GTC which looks fantastic, there is not another Vauxhall that would appeal to me, and at the company, if we get a car that is poor, we don't buy that make again on principle.
Hence no more BMW's too...
We have found Volvos to be good (mainly V70's), and Fords (Mondeo's) and Skoda's seem to be appearing in the carpark too. One Mondeo was retired at 212k miles and was bought by an employee who has been running it for the last 18 months with no problems.
The chap who had the Vauxhall as his company car (inherited from a previous employee) has just replaced it yesterday with a nearly new Octavia estate which I looked at today and seems like a very nice car.
In the old days company / reps cars seemed to always be a Cavalier or Sierra / Mondeo, but my goodness look at the choice now!
Not only more manufacturers, but such large ranges. I can't keep up with how many different cars the manufacturers offer. Time was with BMW there was a 3-series, 5-series or a 7. Now look at them, from saloons, hatches, estates, convertibles, 4 x 4's - hundreds of them.
We have never had more choice, but with the extreme complexity of electronics, engine management systems, etc, etc, there is so much that can go wrong.....
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>>water pump / timing belt giving up the ghost and lunching the engine. Only about 120,000 miles on the clock.
Good grief! - reminds me of the 1980's. Tis criminal that it still occurs.
>>a nearly new Octavia estate which I looked at today and seems like a very nice car.
De acuerdo.
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>> >>water pump / timing belt giving up the ghost and lunching the engine. Only about
>> 120,000 miles on the clock.
It's going to happen, isn't it? What we need to know is the frequency/odds.
If the driver of the Insignia had been asked about the car at 119,000 miles he might have said it was perfectly reliable (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't).
The limitations of the WD reliability index have been rehearsed here at length, but for a sufficiently popular car I'd still have regard to it. JD Power (reported n Telegraph) I suspect of being more heavily influenced by customer expectations of the brands; and there are some puzzling rankings there. How is Hyundai so near the bottom, when Kia, whose cars are mostly Hyundais under the skin, so much better?
FWIW, the WD index puts the Mondeo ahead of the Insignia, and the Passat is about on par with the Insignia - what figures there are suggest that transmission problems drag down the Passat. DSG related? The BMW 3 series is significantly worse than all of them, with the Audi A4 not much better than the BMW.
I still don't fancy the Insignia, although it might be fine. Somehow Vauxhall hasn't created a reason for me to look at one.
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I have probably had 10 Vx cars in my life.
All new, all did 60-80K before replacement & were OK - a few breakdowns, some rust, water leaks, & a lot of poor main dealer service.
@ 25K a year reliability was pretty good overall but often the same problems would re-occur
Last Vx was having starting difficulties - got home & phoned the local Vx dealer who did the servicing.
Cannot come for your car for 4/5 days - it's the Aug 1st rush & we are too busy.
In my house I had an order form for the next car - usually 2/3 week delivery.........signed up for a Peugeot...............bad move -
The Pug started off badly - leaking back window, sodden rear seats, replaced 3 times but would not take back the car or replace the rear seat despite it being badly water marked...... 1st & last Pug no more bought.
I discovered Japanese reliability & wonder why I put up with Vx, Ford & Pug cars for so long. The cars do not seem to go wrong & the dealers are great (mostly family garage rather than chains - although the family owned seemed to be closing or taken over by chains.
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Read my Mokka woes here. I would like another one but can't take the risk.
3 years old 85k miles.
Summary:
£3,000 oil leak.
Brakes that stick on.
Auto dipping headlights that have never worked.
Parcel tray hinges lasted 2 weeks.
Glow plug problems.
Sat nav failing.
Locking wheel nuts had to be drilled off because the key didn't work.
ERG valve failure.
Other Vauxhall central locking failed and engine died on up ramp to multistory carpark the week before Christmas (some sensor failed).
Wrong car delivered - dealer said take it or leave it!
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Sounds like a horror car, most of that carried out under warrenty?
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Not the £3k oil leak, though there was a £2k contribution from Vauxhall.
What I don't get about the JD Power survey, is that cars from essentially the same stable have different positions e.g. VW, Seat, Skoda and Kia and Hyundai.
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It's a strange one, many cars seem to stay near the top for a long time, ie Jazz, yeti. Some seem to yo-yo up and down the list even when there is no changes to the model. One year it's great then awful. I'm never sure how much use it is.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 14 Oct 16 at 15:42
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>>
>> What I don't get about the JD Power survey, is that cars from essentially the
>> same stable have different positions e.g. VW, Seat, Skoda and Kia and Hyundai.
>>
Because it's mostly about people's perceptions and opinions, not facts.
The only reliability data (I'm not interested in satisfaction data for the above reasons) I have any faith in is the German ADAC and TUV data which is at least quantitative i.e. breakdowns per 100 cars on the road or whatever. Mind you they are unsurprisingly in German ;-)
www.adac.de/infotestrat/unfall-schaeden-und-panne/pannenstatistik/default.aspx
www.anusedcar.com/
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I posted the Mercedes page (they came last) up on a Mercedes forum I use and the general consensus from members seems to be that a couple of faults per year is fine!
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2007 new Xtrail
2012 new CRV
Repairs to date None -NIL cost & no warranty claims
Actually, servicing annually, wipers & tyres.
Slight error - brakes cleaned out & handbrake adjusted but IMHO this should
be part of an annual or biennial event - wheels off etc better than a squirt of
brake cleaner SO I do not consider this a repair.
If you consider brake clean a repair then add £100 - over 9 years = £11/year.
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>> I posted the Mercedes page (they came last) up on a Mercedes forum I use
>> and the general consensus from members seems to be that a couple of faults per
>> year is fine!
>>
I don't think I would too happy with a couple of faults each year. On that basis my 14 year old Japanese barge would by now have clocked up 28 faults, instead of the three that it's encountered so far. And two of those were rectified under the guarantee.
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My ex had a new Insignia as a company car, and after 3 years & 130k miles it had been pretty much faultless... A diesel 160 Ecoflex? Replaced by a 2.0Tdi Passat which marooned her a few times on the motorway miles from home. Better interior quality but not as reliable. Now running a CC but no idea how well it's doing in the reliability stakes.
My previous '04 330 was superbly reliable. Admittedly low annual mileages, brisk rural driving, no stop start city driving, bought by me at 6yo and sold to a family member when 12+ yo. This model is supposed to be very reliable.
My ex BMW mechanic who cared for it, who then worked in a main dealer Honda workshop for a few years before moving to a general ( non car sales) motor engineers always says two words when people ask his advice on purchasing a reliable car. Japanese petrol.
He himself runs a 2.0 Civic petrol. He gets his adrenaline kicks driving friends sporty stuff...M3s and their ilk, but tells me he wouldn't want some such as a daily driver.
His advice on what NOT to buy....avoid, like the plague and at all costs, any German diesel out of warranty, unless it's old tech.
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>> I don't think I would too happy with a couple of faults each year. On
>> that basis my 14 year old Japanese barge would by now have clocked up 28
>> faults, instead of the three that it's encountered so far. And two of those were
>> rectified under the guarantee.
>>
Our 13 year old Yaris has had 1 heater resistor and 2 new glowplugs. Original auxiliary belt going fine!
Nothing else has gone wrong apart from consumables(and 2 x batteries)
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 15 Oct 16 at 17:30
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Our company cars are all diesels, the Mercs and the Fords have never had problems despite nigh on 200,000 miles each before changing, the VWs and the Vauxhalls though have been more problematic. Not in terms of their engines but mainly ( automatic ) gearbox faults.
Your mechanic friend may well be right LL but maybe it's a slightly more complex scenario in so far as the German diesels he refers to are indeed expensive to fix if they do go wrong, perhaps offset a bit by the fact that they don't actually tend to go wrong much, if at all, if kept properly maintained?
That's our experience anyway.
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When my mechanic friend says 'avoid German diesel' he specifically refers to higher mileage 4yo+ vehicles. Being general motor engineers, he sees no warranty work, primarily privately owned vehicles, many of which are ex lease high milers which have had minimum maintanence such as ' long life oil'. And when they do go wrong, it's usually very expensive. Which is why private individuals take their cars to his work rather than main dealers, once any goodwill payment has been declined.
I've no idea how reliable my own 2011 138k mile Focus 1.6Tdi will prove to be, but at least it's been serviced annually from new, and now it's had a new belt & water pump fitted I feel happier.
Looks like it's a keeper for the time being....best not mention the 3 Touring money ( or what was left of it) I invested in 4 speculative AIM listed shares.
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Or maybe, I wouldn't know really, but maybe the "German diesels" are fine while they're being used for regular long distance work but take badly to light domestic use. Lots of cold starts, short runs, urban pottering etc? That's maybe where a simpler petrol engine works better? Certainly that's what my wife's petrol Qashqai gets used for and it hasn't had any mechanical problems in the 6 years she's had it.
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Excellent point Runfer, although my ex, in a sales role and covering 120k+ mainly motorway miles every 3 years, had lots of problems with her 2.0Tdi once it approached 100k. Broken injectors were the main culprit. She was not a happy bunny having finished a meeting at 5pm, 200 miles from home, then breaking down on the motorway and coming home on a flatbed recovery vehicle. By the second time the novelty had worn off.
Personally, if I were to be driving big annual miles, a high mileage ex lease BMW 3.0D, either 3 or 5 series, would be on my shortlist. Fortunately I don't. So I won't be getting one, which is a relief to my mechanic pal!
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>> She was not a happy bunny having finished a
>> meeting at 5pm, 200 miles from home, then breaking down on the motorway and coming
>> home on a flatbed recovery vehicle. By the second time the novelty had worn off.
I had that happen in a Cavalier - and it was a Friday evening too. Blew a spark plug out of the head. Servicing garage said "we thought it was a bit loose".
It also left me in lane 3 of the M62 when the cambelt snapped.
I know these things are a long time ago, but they leave a mark!
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>> I've no idea how reliable my own 2011 138k mile Focus 1.6Tdi will prove to
>> be, but at least it's been serviced annually from new,
So about every 30,000 miles then? :yikes:
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30k a year, for many people, especially those working in sales ( I'm excluding taxis services) is not a lot. Runfer covers more miles than that. My ex used to drive 45k pa and one of her colleagues covers 60k pa. even my driving instructor pal has averaged 55k pa over the past 7 years.
The 30k miles pa my Focus covered were simply commuter miles.... I know his address and where he worked, and it was a long, mainly rural commute.
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Interesting you should say that LL, I remember reading an annual report from the AA using gov figures, they reckon the average mileage is 7k per year. I never quite understand how people do 60 k pa, how do they ever get anything done when doing so many miles? Delivery van drivers I can understand. Must be worth it though as so many people do it.
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Long hours mainly Sooty. Couple of times a week at least I'm in the car by 04.00 / 04.30, into London or wherever before 08.00, a day of meetings etc and set off back arriving home at 21.00 / 21.30. I've learned to pace myself when that happens, regular, if short, breaks and try very hard not to get anxious about traffic etc.
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Pretty long hours there RDH, something like 12 on 12 off, for 3 months plus a commute is reasonable common especially when abroad, however I always prefer doing that sort of thing in blocks continuously rather than a couple of times a week. I guess it's what you get used to.
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Aye indeed, you just have to do what you have to do. Best not to think about it too much sometimes !
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And don't forget that when you are in the car driving those 30/60k miles pa to and from visits, you are still working.... Fielding calls from customers, the office, new prospects etc. Quite how you can concentrate on driving, especially on the motorway at a steady 80, is beyond me. On some days, when I was not working, and I enjoy driving & was insured to chauffeur, we would leave at 6am, first visit at 9:30am leave the last call at 4:30 & home by 8 traffic permitting. And during the 400 miles on the road those days the hands free would ring almost constantly.
Loved driving
Hated sales!
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>> 30k a year, for many people, especially those working in sales ( I'm excluding taxis
>> services) is not a lot.
>>
I know - I used to do it myself. It was the "serviced annually" comment that I was picking up on. I'd hope a car doing 30K/yr would be serviced more often than once a year!
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Never ran a VX so cant really comment, although I have friends who have and I've never really heard anything negative.
Personal experience - VW Sharan 1.9 Tdi PD 130 - bought in 2005 as a pre reg - Only failure / replacement outside of consumables was the DMF at about 90K (local indy told me its a common failure between 80-100K on these) - Kept until last year with somewhere approaching 130K, so I would class that as reliable.
Mrs B's Viano was a bit of a long shot purchase - we needed 8 seats so choice was limited. We really wanted a Tranpsorter, but the Viano is more powerful, better speced and a fair bit cheaper on the used market. We picked one up from a local guy in a posh part of town who was running 3 of them - told me he had lost a contract he was working on so no needed to get rid of one of them. Anyway, it was very tidy, 7 years old, sketchy history and had 230K on the clock, but was the cheapest 8 seater on autotrader at the time. 3 years later we've had a few issues but it was a punt and I'm happy. Engine / gearbox fine, but a couple of electrical issues - one that wrongly told the ECU it was overheating and put it into limp mode (flat bed recovery), new front arms, and a snapped front spring. 3 years and 30K later and I'd probably get back 80% of what I paid for it.
My Lexus was another punt - I prefer higher mileage cars as long as I've done my homework. Only 2 years old when I purchased last year but had just hit 100K. Due to age Lexus classed it as a used approved car so warranty was the same as a new car, but it was somewhere in the region of 5K less than an average mileage one would have been, so I figured the risk was low. 25K in the last 18 months and no issues whatsoever. When the warranty ran out they offered an extension - £495 for 2 years unlimited mileage including full European breakdown cover for me and Mrs B in any car, so within reason I doubt I will think about changing it anytime soon. First Jap car, but very difficult to overlook the faultlessness of it
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Never had a vauxhall, but a family member regularly used to get them as company vehicles, the time he was there they must have gone through about 50 of them. They were all pretty reliable. We used to have corsas and astras at work as pool cars, i didn't use them a huge amount but they seemed quite reliable not something I'd buy but they never seemed to break down.
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>>Never had a vauxhall,
Me neither. But I did regret not buying a new Cavalier years ago because I thought the larger engine in the Maxi would be preferable, and it was a couple of hundred £s cheaper.
I've known quite e few people over the years that have been entirely happy with their Corsas.
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Not relevant to choices now, but I had a Carlton estate and a Cavalier saloon in the late 80s, both with the 2 litre 8 valve engine. The Carlton was a lovely barge, and the Cavalier was very quick for its time in real world terms. The later 16 valve engine was gutless in comparison, despite being 130 v. 115 bhp IIRC.
The only problem I had was a squeek that was traced to a broken spot weld on the Cavalier, causing the monocoque to flex slightly...!
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Only Japanese petrol or certain Fords in this household. Diesels of any make and all french cars are banned.
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Never seriously considered a Vauxhall except for a Chevette c1983, got a Pug104 instead. Brand not even on really my radar since save for a Vectra/Insignia estate around 2010 when a large estate as straight replacement for Xantia was a possibility.
Maybe the models just didn't appeal. Or perhaps the succession of FA/FB/FC101 Victors Dad had as company cars in sixties and in which I was sick as a dog when a kid left a psychological mark.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 15 Oct 16 at 17:07
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I had a Chevette estate right through the eighties and remember changing the head gasket a couple of times. At the last MOT, the tester looked surprised and used an expression I'd not heard before - "Most of these have gone home!" It passed, but a misfire and leaking brake fluid defeated me at 90K. I drove to an auction, bought a Mk 2 Astra, and sold the Chevette at the nearest garage after declaring the faults. The Astra lasted me through the nineties.
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>>
>> Your mechanic friend may well be right LL but maybe it's a slightly more complex
>> scenario in so far as the German diesels he refers to are indeed expensive to
>> fix if they do go wrong, perhaps offset a bit by the fact that they
>> don't actually tend to go wrong much, if at all, if kept properly maintained?
>>
>> That's our experience anyway.
>>
Some German diesels go wrong a lot, even if maintained properly. There's the VAG 2 litres from mid to late 2000s that have a very expensive habit of snapping the oil pump drive, leading to the rapid demise of the engine (unsurprisingly the man with the hat has plenty of info on this), here's an example link:-
www.ring-engineering.co.uk/vag-vw-audi-20-tdi-oil-pump-repair.html
Over in the BMW camp there the 2 litre N43 engine from the same era, and also the newer N47, which tend to stretch the timing chain (which is at the gearbox end of the engine) or the plastic tensioners disintegrate..soooooo very expensive repairs:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/61407/should-bmw-pay-for-timing-chain-tensioner-failure-
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Time to buy a Vauxhall? - madf
