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... Nice shiny black solid paint (non-metallic). As soon as I touch it I appear to leave very fine scratch marks on the surface polish. It's now a month old and is grimy! Any suggestions or special tools/products to recommend?!
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Must admit my previous solid black Audi had lacquer so the surface scratching was less of a problem (I believe VAG now lacquer solid red too). However, the method I employed was:
Usually wash with plenty of water, a clean car sponge and a reputable shampoo containing wax. then rinse (again with plenty of water) and dry off with a good quality synthetic chamois.
For a treat I'd wax it with a high quality wax once in a while - this will 'fill' those scratches you describe.
I never (ever) use car washes with their brillo-pad rollers etc...
I agree, the ice-rink look isn't good.
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I don’t know how keen you are to get it right or how much time you have but this is a summary of how the pros’s do it. The best way to wash it is to use two buckets, one with car wash in warm water and the other a cold water rinse. Loosen as much dirt as possible with hose or a power washer. Don’t use a sponge they just trap and move the dirt around the paint. Use a cotton or better, a lambswool wash mitt as they trap the dirt inside the fibres away from the paint. Rinse the dirty mitt regularly in the rinse bucket before putting it back in the car wash water. Move the mitt in straight lines not circular patterns. Don’t go over the same area lots of times, just one wipe. Dry with a waffle towel not a chamois.
If the paint is already swirly you can probably polish (not wax) out the marks using something like Meguiars Scratch X or a lightly abrasive polish. If you “clay” the paint before polishing it you’ll remove any tar and other contaminants that polishing might not and also prevent them marking the paint when polishing. This takes a while depending on how deep the marks are but once done a few coats of wax or glaze to seal and protect it is a quick job. Once you’ve got it right provided you wash it properly you shouldn’t have to go through the whole process again just an annual or six monthly light polish and re-wax. Polished Bliss or Detailing World are very good informative sites to check out.
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Never had an issue on the Altea. Lovely black metalic, it was as hard as nails and shrugged off dirt.
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The only real solution is don't buy one in the first place, or white either.
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ON's right. My experience with a black car was that it looked drab and scratched after a wash. The only cure was to polish it.
If you want a black car, you have to get it out of your system. Personally I've done that and I won't do it again.
JH
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I have a black car. It always comes out of the local carwash looking lovely and clean and shiny. It does seem to get noticeably dirty more quickly than the silver cars I had in the past though.
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I agree but I am a sucker for punishment I have a black Saab 93 and is covered in faint tiny scratches its been looked after properly its just poor paint work,the black paint on my previous Mercedes was perfect even though it was 8 years old.
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>> Never had an issue on the Altea. Lovely black metalic, it was as hard as
>> nails and shrugged off dirt.
>>
I suspect that Seat will use the same paint as Audi, have to agree it was good paint both from a stone chip and scratching perspective, always looked great after (albeit infrequent) washes.
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We have black C-Max which being a Ford I suspect doesn't have the best quality paint but it seems to survive the local car wash without any issues - though I did check that the machine had those new stlye brushes.
Monthly I get the hose out and I second the recommendation of a big pre wash hoisng down and then use the 2 bucket system.
I only ever use Autoglym shampoo and polish (April and October) which seems expensive enough for me.
MPZ
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Try using snowfoam as a prewash first, removes a lot of the dirt before you even touch the car therfore there's less grit to drag around with your wash mitt. For the best wash mitt google 'wookies fist.' As mentioned previously use a drying towel not a chamois.
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Used to have a diamond black metallic BMW - sigh.
NeilS above is right. Wash with hose, then use a sponge and lots of waxes water..(not plain). Wax it once properly and the wash will keep the shine. Use a high quality leather - separate bucket and free of all dirt.. A good synthetic one beats real any day imo.. (my Halfords one is now 15 and works perfectly)..
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"For the best wash mitt google 'wookies fist.' As mentioned previously use a drying towel not a chamois."
I agree my Wookie is brilliant on the black car and after SHMBO brushes the cat I get her to do the same to Wookie too. Keeps him nice and fluffy.
After drying with a towel I also use a quick detailing spray and that keeps the wax in good condition too.
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Don't
It will look dirty tomorrow whether you wash it or not.
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I have a 7 year old metallic black Ford Ka. I use water (and a soft brush).
Seems to work well enough for me. Clearly either I am not fussy enough, or my eyesight isn't good enough.
(Of course, someone will be along in a minute to say that one has to look carefully to see any black paint among all the rust!)
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>> Used to have a diamond black metallic BMW - sigh.
>>
>> NeilS above is right. Wash with hose, then use a sponge and lots of waxes
>> water..(not plain). Wax it once properly and the wash will keep the shine. Use a
>> high quality leather - separate bucket and free of all dirt.. A good synthetic one
>> beats real any day imo.. (my Halfords one is now 15 and works perfectly)..
>>
>>
DONT use a sponge or any type of leather
a mitt and drying towels are the way forward.
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>>>I have a 7 year old metallic black Ford Ka. I use water (and a soft brush). Seems to work well enough for me.
I have metallic black too... well charcoal I suppose.... far more easy to keep looking nice than a true flat black. We had one new car in plain black 25yrs ago... never again.
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>>Any tips for washing a black car?!<<
Water. Sponge. Bucket. Soap.
Amazes me how some people want to make such a simple task that much more complex.
I cleaned a black brand new Jag XKR this morning using that method and well, ya know it just dont have any scratches on it still.
All paint, viewed in the right light, has fine scratches in it unless the paint is fresh from being sprayed. Just happens that black makes them most visable. Buy silver or white if your sensitive to the reality.
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>> Water. Sponge. Bucket. Soap.
>>
>> Amazes me how some people want to make such a simple task that much more
>> complex.
Trust me, two buckets would make that job a whole load better. Means you're always putting a clean cloth onto the car, rather than smearing dirty water around.
I have a black car. I haven't washed it for about 5k miles; there's no point. It gets a bit dirty and then never seems to get dirtier.
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Ive not scratched a car yet and its been 12 years now since Ive been doing this pro.
If you prewash the car before you soap it, the water in the bucket shouldnt get dirty, unless your a numpty at pre-washing.
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I make no comment at all about scratching. Merely that you're not washing the car with dirty water. Great for mopping dirty floors as well.
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>> All paint, viewed in the right light, has fine scratches in it unless the paint
>> is fresh from being sprayed. Just happens that black makes them most visable. Buy silver
>> or white if your sensitive to the reality.
>>
But the idea is to keep those fine scratches to a minimum. Obviously being a pro you know all about swirl marks etc
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Depends what you call swirl marks. Uniform ones or random ones?
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I'm talking about random ones (I think,) sometimes called spider webbing? I assume by uniform ones you mean as a result of machine polishing? Anyway, you obviously know all about them. Would you not say though that they come about by tiny particles of grit and dirt being dragged over the paint surface when washing etc and that the effect builds up gradually? Surely if you can minimise the exposure of the paintwork to these particles then you reduce the swirl mark effect? I hear what you're saying about the two bucket method, I personally just use one with a grit guard as the car is virtually clean by the time I get in contact with it anyway, the water in my bucket stays clean.
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Actually, you have to press pretty hard to cause a swirl mark normally. The time that paintwork is vunerable to swirl marks by hand is when it is soft due to being in direct sunlight. Thats worth avoiding so washing a car first thing in the morning or about an hour before sunset is best.
Black paint especially can be affected by sunlight heating it.
Ive never used two buckets and im confident using that method on other peoples cars that cost way more than I can contemplate spending on a car - I cleaned a car to be shown at a Jag owners club meeting the other day.
The reason people would be smearing grit over their cars is due to negligent preparation as if you use a quality pre-wash with a pressure washer, there should be only the finest film of dirt on the car, certainly not enough to make any swirling visable to the naked eye - soaping the car down should simply be to finish off, not to attack any serious level of dirt.
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>>soaping the car down should simply be to finish off, not to attack any serious level of dirt.
100 years of research into detergents all wasted, elbow grease is better.
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The pre-wash is the detergent that matters because if its a good one, it loosens the dirt without any need to rub at the paintwork and is then washed off. This allows me to use a very high wax content shampoo which has some cleaning properties but is mainly just to give a superior finish thats easy for me to leather off.
Some people just have a facination with buckets though ;-)
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>>Some people just have a facination with buckets though ;-)
Or indeed, some people have pressure washers...
I've never found pressure washers much use as detergents work so much better with hot water that splashing cold detergent onto a vehicle is as much use as smearing the car with chocolate... Or is Karcher traffic film remover no good for mud?
Once upon a time I had a Karcher that heated the water - diesel driven - but sadly it applied detergent cold. I concluded I was better off leaving the Karcher elsewhere, and applying detergent in hot water with a sponge.
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My experience of swirl marks is that they're a gradual thing. I owned a car that I had cleaned by the local hand car wash fairly regularly and the swirl marks gradully got worse as did the dullness of the paint. Took quite a bit of hard work to remove them. My understanding of swirl marks is that they're inevitable and the only thing you can do is to minimise the causes of them and then remove them every so often.
This is the sort of thing that I'm talking about
www.meguiars.com/faq/400_bmwbefore.jpg
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Those kind of marks exist in some form on all cars which can be seen under artifical lighting - if you can see the swirls under natural light, thats when you know damage has been done - even a freshly painted car will have such marks to a degree once the paint has been mopped back.
Dont get me started on local hand car washes. I had to spend an entire day polishing a 3-Series Coupe that one of those outfits had ruined. I know very well what they can do and I get fed up of picking up the pieces.
Some are good, careful and trained. Others are monkeys with a bucket and sponge. Its likely carelessness and/or ignorance caused your paint to go the way it did.
Some of the cars on my books ive been cleaning 8 years now and they dont fade, even the ones I do weekly. If your paint fades, someone, somewhere, is a bannana muncher.
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Advice i would give is when doing first wash finish with auto glym extra gloss protection. If not done, do it next time. You will see a difference and give coachwork a little protection.
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After my experience of taking a black car to a 'hand car wash' place just outside of Harlow, my advice would be to do it yourself.
I saw them peer at a spot on the bonnet which they gave a good scrub with something in a trigger spray. I stopped them as soon as I saw the fine scratches. Fortunately it wasn't my car. I guess the cloth had hit the ground at some time.
I spent a couple of hours trying to remove similar marks on ny daughter's bonnet after a trip to one of these places.
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So, Stu, are you saying we should go out and buy a foam lance and a gallon of snow foam? Is that the kind of pre-wash you're talking about? Can't say I've ever felt the need, but on the other hand, it does kind of look like fun to cover your car in shaving foam and let it do the work.
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Well, here we go... I'm going to hose it down thoroughly, and its also starting to rain which IMHO will help?
Let's see...
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Hope it works out Nick, proper flat black on a car looks the part.
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I'm not allowed to wash my black car at the moment or my silver one either come to that, at least not with a hose. Too idle to do it with a watering can. Think I'll just go for the grunge look for a while........
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sat 7 Aug 10 at 10:57
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I'm following the same philosophy, but then I think we're in the same area and there is a hose pipe ban.
Which means it will be well and truly dirty by the time it is washed. I always start with a darned good rinse with a hose to soften and remove as much dirt as possible. The "shaving foam" route sounds like a good giggle but I think you need a special (expensive) pressure lance attachment to apply it properly (?).
JH
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>>So, Stu, are you saying we should go out and buy a foam lance and a gallon of snow foam? Is that the kind of pre-wash you're talking about?<<
You dont need something so dramatic. I use a multi-purpose cleaner as a pre-wash ( Autosmart G101 ) which removes flies without the need for any abrasion aswell. You can adjust the dilution and I apply mine with a pump spray by hand, its more economical with water.
I buy 5 litres which lasts me about 6 weeks and does about 100 cars or so, but I also use it for a variety of interior cleaning, so if used soley for exterior pre-wash, it would last longer. The usual diultion is about 20% G101, 80% water.
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Much appreciate your pro advice, Stu. Have spent approx. 4h today on my daughter's Focus - wash and dry, Autoglym SRP, much elbow grease where seagull poo had eaten into the clear coat, plastics, glass, vac, wet vac upholstery, under bonnet checks etc etc. Sorry folks, a good rain shower isn't good enough.
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Have spent approx. 4h today on my daughter's Focus
>> -
Is this a club for daft doting dads that spoil their daughters rotten, if so i must one of the founders too.
Girls just don't do proper car cleaning or even unproper car cleaning, well that's not strictly true my mate's SWM keeps her pride and joy CooperS spotless and waxed regularly, but she is the only exception.
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Yes, GB. I did my other daughter's Mini earlier in the week. She's only had it a couple of months from new, so it hadn't got too bad yet. Her Ka used to turn up looking like a mobile dustbin.
Funny thing is I find I actually like cleaning cars. Stu - need an assistant?
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My wife didn't clean the outside or the inside of her Mk1 Panda for four years. In fairness where we lived at the time the roads were pretty much constantly covered in farm mud for 7 months of the year and salt for the other 5 so it would have been a bit of a waste of time. I confess I just used to shove mine through the car wash once in a blue when I was in a town and muck it out a couple of times a year.
I left the Panda alone as a sort of experiment to see if she would notice how bad it was but she never did. I suspect towards the end it was the dirt which was holding it together.
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sat 7 Aug 10 at 23:14
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Well my black Cee'd has had the works today, washed, dried, 2 coats of Autoglym SRP, windows cleaned and the tyres dressed. Plus the interior vacuumed and polished. It looks great, trouble is being black it will look dirty in the morning !
What i was wondering is am i wasting my time putting 2 coats of polish on it, does the 2nd remove the 1st or does it actually "build" up ?
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>> does the 2nd remove the 1st or does it actually "build" up ?
SRP builds up, it's a relatively low cut polish but also contains filler, which through several layers will fill marring etc.
On it's own the filler should last a few weeks, but since you've done all that hard work, and because it's nowhere near as intensive to apply, it might be worth putting on some AutoGlym Extra Gloss Protection (literally wipe on, leave for an hour or 2, buff off) over the top. It's an extremely tough sealant, one of the better ones i've used.
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Thanks for that Craig.
If i leave it till next weekend, can i just give the car a wash off then apply the Extra Gloss, or should i SRP it again ?
Andy
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Just give it a wash with a mild shampoo mix (e.g. 1 capful if it recommends 2 in a bucket) then apply the EGP. In one weeks time, after washing the car will look as good as it does today, so you'll have a great base for sealing with EGP.
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Any tips for washing a black car?! - idle_chatterer
