A family member has a one year old Hyundai i10 with less than very cold air-con. The obvious thought was a leakage of gas.
The main dealers want about £260 to re-gas and diagnose the problem. It won't cost anything if it's a warranty issue - but a bit of a gamble in my opinion. So, I suggested a £50 man in a van job to top it up and maybe find out what's wrong before going any further with Hyundai.
Horror - the car has the new refrigerant R-1234yf in its air con system. Apparently this is a requirement from late 2016, so some cars on the road have it already. It's very expensive compared with the old gas and a £50 re-gas now becomes £150.
We're not quite sure about how to proceed just yet, but have noted that opening the windows is a lot cheaper.
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It's got a five-year warranty so there's plenty of time to get it sorted out without paying anything.
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>> there's plenty of time to get it sorted out without paying anything.
It depends on what is wrong. If for instance a small stone has punctured the condenser, then the warranty won't cover it.
However, something like a failed compressor, split pipe, or a loose fitting, then it should be fixed for free.
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>> It's got a five-year warranty so there's plenty of time to get it sorted out
>> without paying anything.
>>
On my Kia (sister company, 7 year warranty), the battery and aircon gas are only covered for two years.
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>> We're not quite sure about how to proceed just yet, but have noted that opening
>> the windows is a lot cheaper.
>>
Bite the bullet.
If you let the system 'run dry', that is all your seals borked as well.
Becomes an expensive fix down the line.
Aircons need to be run often (5 minutes a week) , even during winter, to circulate the refrigerant.
When the A/C is running, the lubricants in the system keep the seals from drying out.
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>> Aircons need to be run often (5 minutes a week) , even during winter, to
>> circulate the refrigerant.
>> When the A/C is running, the lubricants in the system keep the seals from drying
>> out.
>>
Don't ponce about.
Turn the air con on and leave it on.
Summer, Winter, hot, cold. Turn the thing on and leave the thing on.
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>> >> Don't ponce about.
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>> Turn the air con on and leave it on.
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>> Summer, Winter, hot, cold. Turn the thing on and leave the thing on.
>>
But aaah, shout the unenlightened masses, but that uses too much fuel!
A few years back we did a comparative test in summer - A/C on, or windows open.
We took two cars for a 200km round trip - one was an ix35, can't recall the other.
100km of each, constant speeds etc.
Guess which method proved more economical?
In wintertime (as bad as our winter isn't!) definitely helps the demisting and drying out damp clothes.
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>> Don't ponce about.
>>
>> Turn the air con on and leave it on.
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>> Summer, Winter, hot, cold. Turn the thing on and leave the thing on.
>>
The air con on my 14 year old Japanese barge has never been switched off. It has never required and form of servicing or repair, and it functions as well now as it did when the car was new.
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>> The air con on my 14 year old Japanese barge has never been switched off.
>> It has never required and form of servicing or repair, and it functions as well
>> now as it did when the car was new.
>>
The air con on my 13 year old Japanese barge has never been switched off. It has been serviced once For £35 - special offer- Kwikfit. Still very cold.
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Honeywell and duPont seem to have the patents, and the market, locked up.
I remember aircon recharges being about £90-£100 - but now everybody seems to do them for £40-£50. Hopefully the new gas will come down in price over the next 2-3 years as it gets more widely adopted.
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Just checked Toyota and Honda aircon prices, Toyota - £40 recharge, £80 full service, R1234yf gas not included. Honda £65 no exclusions on the website. I am in the process of switching between makes.
I agree with never turn it off.
Last edited by: Old Sundodger on Tue 26 Jul 16 at 07:43
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>>I agree with never turn it off.
I turn it off when it's more comfortable turned off. I don't particularly like the dry air feel of air con.
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Perhaps I need to elaborate a little. Firstly I wanted to flag up something that was new to me and maybe to others - that the day of the £50 air-con re-gas will no longer apply to post 2016 cars. The new gas is mightily expensive.
If it was my car I'd bite the bullet but having had poor experiences with a Hyundai warranty in the past and having an extreme distrust of main dealers I'm hesitant in pushing for the car owner to go the main dealer initially. The warranty document says the cover for a re-gas only lasts 6 months and that no-charge warranty work will be carried out only if a manufactruing fault is found. I have had air-con equipped cars since about 1996, have always kept it switched on and have managed to get a stone damaged a condenser twice and am several hundred pounds worse off as a result.
My past experiences suggest to me that the main dealer will conveniently not find a manufacturing fault and so the car owner spends £260+ for a diagnosis followed by a few hundred for any repair. However, £150 spent on a non-warranty re-gas may well work and if not, at least gives a diagnosis with a saving of £110+.
In addition, the re-gas van comes to the car and no time is lost at work etc. by booking in at a distant main dealer for a day, finding alternative transport etc. etc.
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"My past experiences suggest to me that the main dealer will conveniently not find a manufacturing fault "
I have to say the Kia dealer my daughter's pretty old and a-year-out-of-warranty Cee'd went to for an immobiliser problem were really good and identified a tiny crack in the key shaft which affected the transponder, which they got replaced FoC. They aren't all crooks.. :-)
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Like you Dulwich Estate, I'd personally bight the bullet and take it to a main dealer because:
- a re-regass is £150 vs £260
- if there is a leak then that re-gass won't have fixed the problem
- the £260 will be a price for an actual fix and it may turn out to be free
On a Passat I once had it was no longer blowing cold air. It was under warranty. Booked in and it turned out to be a snapped part and not a leak and covered by the soon to expire warranty (hence booked it when it was).
As VxFan said (think it was him above), it could be a hole caused by a stone and this means a re-gass is an expensive gamble.
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Kwik Fit don't charge for air-con regas if they can't improve the cold air temperature at the vents by at least 10%.
www.kwik-fit.com/air-conditioning/information
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>> Kwik Fit don't charge for air-con regas if they can't improve the cold air temperature
>> at the vents by at least 10%.
I'm willing to bet they won't do r1234yf at their standard price!
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I read something about it not so long ago - Merc (and Audi?) are heading towards CO2 systems as the new gas is potentially flammable, and got the impression they didn't like being held to ransom by the manufacturer. CO2 of course needs much higher pressures so there's a cost penalty there - but regas should be cheap - unless it needs 'special' CO2!!
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The aircon machine that is used for a regas pulls a vacuum in the system after it empties the gas and oil. If it detects a leak it will not refill the aircon system.
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>> The aircon machine that is used for a regas pulls a vacuum in the system
>> after it empties the gas and oil. If it detects a leak it will not
>> refill the aircon system.
>>
Hmmm I don't know whether all mobile Re-gas firms' machines have that facility as that being the case my Sister's old Fiesta wouldn't have re-filled using your explanation.
Our car was 10 years old and despite my nagging, my Sister was very remiss is running the aircon regularly. Ultimately there wasn't any aircon any more and I suspected a leak but nevertheless we did get a mobile firm to our premises who did the usual diagnostics and claimed it was empty and did a vacuum hold test which seemed to be OK.
The system was duly filled and the immediate icy blast was a welcome outcome. However, within a period of less than 3 weeks the system was blowing warm air again. I suspected an expensive component/s replacement and so we sold the car for which we got less than £1k in part exchange for the latest generation Hyundai i10.
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>> Hmmm I don't know whether all mobile Re-gas firms' machines have that facility as that
>> being the case my Sister's old Fiesta wouldn't have re-filled using your explanation.
I think all machines have the leak detected, no refill function. I believe it is because of legislation about releasing gas to atmosphere. As Kevin says it depends on the size of the leak.
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>The aircon machine that is used for a regas pulls a vacuum in the system after it empties the gas and oil.
>If it detects a leak it will not refill the aircon system.
But it is only capable of detecting a serious leak. The slight leak on my aircon wasn't picked up by the machine and happily refilled it. A dye test revealed a leaking O-ring on the pipe joint to the condensor. Apparently a common problem with oxidisation of aluminium components pinching the O-ring and causing it to leak.
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>> >If it detects a leak it will not refill the aircon system...
>>
>> But it is only capable of detecting a serious leak. ...
I wonder whether the fact that they test by drawing a vacuum, whereas in use the pressure is inside pushing out makes a difference?
It was an O-ring in aluminium seal that went on my last car. Unfortunately £150 for a new pipe, plus fitting.
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>> I wonder whether the fact that they test by drawing a vacuum, whereas in use
>> the pressure is inside pushing out makes a difference?
I suspect it might. If say an o-ring seal is leaking, by pulling a vacuum will pull in the o-ring tighter and thus potentially stop it leaking.
Some AC testers use nitrogen and pressurise the system to check for leaks. Some testers use a mix of nitrogen and helium. Reason being much smaller leaks can be detected due to the size of the test gas molecules.
www.boconline.co.uk/en/products-and-supply/refrigerant-gases/leak-detection-gases/leak-detection-gases.html
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>It was an O-ring in aluminium seal that went on my last car. Unfortunately £150 for a new pipe, plus fitting.
That's bad luck.
The guy who did mine said that if it's left for too long it often needs a new pipe and sometimes even a replacement of whatever component the pipe is connecting to. The oxidisation pits the metal surfaces too badly for the O-ring to seal. Luckily I called as soon as I noticed it wasn't cooling as well as it should. The bolts holding the joint together came out fairly easily and after cleaning off the corrosion with a bit of steel wool and fitting a new O-ring it's fixed. Less than £100 and I've got icy-cold aircon again.
www.vehicools.co.uk/ There's a section on R1234 on the website.
Highly recommended for anyone in Hants, S Berks and no connection other than as a satisfied customer.
The re-gassing machines cost about £3000 BTW.
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>> I read something about it not so long ago - Merc (and Audi?) are heading
>> towards CO2 systems as the new gas is potentially flammable, and got the impression they
>> didn't like being held to ransom by the manufacturer. CO2 of course needs much higher
>> pressures so there's a cost penalty there - but regas should be cheap - unless
>> it needs 'special' CO2!!
>>
The refrigeration industry is moving away from 'exotic' gases as well. The costs are going up pretty quickly off the back of it. I think the plan is to move to some sort of ammonia type gas to cut costs. No surprise that the car industry are moving to something cheaper.
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recently bought 54 polo sdi black 3 door to find air con not working.
so get £48 man with a van. pressure checked ,yer no leaks , fill up . 3days later leaked out. refills after another pressure test thinks it could have been the valve sticking open, add dye . 2 days later no good, comes back and ultraviolet light and goggles test but couldn't find leak. it is well hidden.Now add £20 can of halfords stop leak.
2 days later its all leaked out again.
so i now have to deep search to find the leak.
tells me vw and vauxhall and saab must get air con used regularly
honda have a £25 relay that often gives trouble
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>> so i now have to deep search to find the leak.
If its not around the condenser and compressor in the engine bay, it could well be the evaporator - up inside the dash.
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yer the guy said the same, will take off under tray and look under when i get round to it. the guys equipment couldn't detect a leak if the car was running ,which is when it was leaking out. if that dosen't find it then will look to the evaporator
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>> Now add £20 can of halfords stop leak.
There used to be an AC expert on here (or was it t'other place?) that basically said these miracle cans were useless. They promise so much, but deliver very little. All they do apparently is swell up the rubber seals. If the seals are already perished, then it ain't gonna work.
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yer the can says 2 million satisfied customers. still worth the gamble i suppose,
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No miracle cans available for the new 1234yf gas,but what is worrying,is that these new gas systems will work perfectly ok on the old 134a gas.The gas port fittings are different to identify the gas type,but there is nothing to stop" fred in the shed "from filling your r1234yf system with the old gas and no one will know any different untill the next ac service and the engineer condemns the system as contaminated.Then what happens? Roll on Co2.Vw Audi will introduce this on more expensive models from 2017.
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New expensive air-con gas - ouch ! - Avant
