...why? what use is it?...
Don't ask awkward questions - it's a toy paid for by somebody else.
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>> why? what use is it?
How are they going to follow bad boys on scramblers through footpath barriers? Too wide.
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What's it for? So the cops can talk to people about road safety.
Quote from Sussex Police:
Sergeant Tony Crisp said: 'These machines are being used to help police officers engage with motorcyclists and young drivers who are most at risk when it comes to accidents on the roads.
'People are intrigued by them and stop to ask officers about them, at which point we can talk to them about road safety.'
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1300335/Traffic-police-say-hello-hello-hello-new-wheeled-Can-Am-Spyder.html#ixzz0vfkQRw5F
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quote-------------Because they are three-wheeled you also don't need a motorbike licence to ride them, so that also appealed to the police because it meant officers with plain car driving licences could also try them out.'-----------unquote
>oh dear--------
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>> 'People are intrigued by them and stop to ask officers about them, at which point
>> we can talk to them about road safety.'
>>
That'll be a lecture then?
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A bit like those off road buggy things you sometimes see on holiday. If you have any remaining sense of automotive foolishness left over from more carefree days you can't help fancying a go of one but would find it difficult to think of any particular use for one.
I feel the same way about scooters. Can't help liking some of them but as I don't live in Florence or own a motorhome I can't imagine ever actually buying one.
Glad such things exist though. Quite cheering for some reason.
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>> How are they going to follow bad boys on scramblers through footpath barriers? Too wide.
"Carlos Fandango".
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>> "Carlos Fandango".
Just looked that up. Now I get you! Too young when that came out I think. :-)
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Looks as though there's only one on "youtube", and that seems rather truncated.
Couldn't view that on the box now - probably not at the cinema. "Illegal".
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Good to see that Sussex Constabulary have saved enough cash to avoid the forthcoming cuts and have enough left over to spend ~£40k on conversation pieces.
Kevin...
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I see they need stabilisers though......
Pat
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Goody-o. So not satisfied with spending my council tax precept on a load of twin-turbo BMWs of various kinds (rule seems to be down here that if the badge don't end in ...35i it ain't worth bothering with) we now have this. What's next?
A far better idea for encouraging sensible riding is the unmarked bike patrols - particularly given some of the damn silly riding I see on roads near me just about every weekend at this time of year.
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This is the device I posted on Unusual Sightings a couple of weeks ago.
It's a disgrace isn't it? It's nothing but a new toy to try and stave off boredom among disenchanted officers.
I am always gobsmacked when I visit the UK by the standard of kit the British police seem to insist on these days. I don't want to harp on it, but the Gendarmes seem to manage perfectly adequately with Clios and minibuses (as well as the usual BMWs for the bike department).
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It does look like a spectacularly poorly judged decision to put this thing on the road and then offer up the weakest justification for doing so. I can only hope that the maker subsidised it's purchase or it's on some sort of loan/trial. I also think it's time the Government did a deal with one manufacturer and told all police forces what vehicles they'll be using. Ford, for example, could supply everything from their stable including 4 wheel drive where needed. I don't agree that anything beyond a Mondeo estate is needed on the motorway, or anywhere else for that matter. (As for BMW's, I'd have to question the saving over something like a Mondeo when all costs are taken into account) To agree a 3 year national deal would surely vastly reduce the hotch-potch purchasing across the many forces, thus saving money in the current financial crisis.
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>> (As for BMW's, I'd
>> have to question the saving over something like a Mondeo when all costs are taken
>> into account)
Absolutely. None of the traffic cars (marked or unmarked) that I see round here can have cost a penny under £30k. The choice of make is particularly hard to justify when the chaps next door in Hants seem to manage perfectly well with Octavia vRSs.
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. I don't agree that anything beyond a Mondeo estate
>> is needed on the motorway, or anywhere else for that matter. (As for BMW's, I'd
>> have to question the saving over something like a Mondeo when all costs are taken
>> into account)
Mondeo estate is overweight when loaded, cannot perform to Police requirements and is more expensive to operate over the typical 18 months/160'000m lifespan of a m/way car. (An Isignia estate recently tested fell to pieces in the first week) It's also worth peanuts when it comes to be sold on, whereas a BMW 530d still retains significant residual value. Therefore, the taxpayer gets a better return. BMW/Jaguar supply the cars for peanuts, other manufacturers are not so ready to give discounts. I'm afraid the "couldn't cost less than £30'000" is well off the mark. The Jags and BMW cost significantly less than £20'000. A Police spec Mondeo/Insignia isn't much cheaper.
I couldn't care less what badge a car has on the front. The vehicle I drive at work is a tool, nothing more. It does however, have to be able to do the job, be reliable and give me the confidence to know it's not going to try and throw me off the road every time it looks at a bend.
Still, Police driving 'luxury' vehicles always makes a good headline.
Last edited by: midlifecrisis on Thu 5 Aug 10 at 12:42
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'Still, Police driving 'luxury' vehicles always makes a good headline.'
I'm sure the BMWs make more financial sense over their term as a plod car, but the self righteous 'don't question us' attitude like that that makes us question it.
Are these figures published anywhere? If so, why do some forces use Skodas and some BMWs?
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Still think this is the coolest police car anywhere:
www.pbrun.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/ferrari_cop_car_italy.jpg
Got overtaken by one of these once, on the Autostrada south of Milan.
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For goodness sake! ", but the self righteous 'don't question us' attitude like that that makes us question it." Where is the self righteous attitude. I was stating a few FACTS.
My Force uses BMWs 5 series on the m/way. It uses Skodas and Vectras for the rest of the road network. The Vectras are slowley being replaced by 3 Series BMWs because BMW offered the best deal. Do you really think that bean counters don't minutely examine every purchase.
There's a whole host of useless equipment sat in Police store rooms because the useful stuff was vetoed and we were forced to purchase the cheapest option (that deosn't work or last) . It takes months to get a vehicle purchase approved, we're not all down the BMW showroom, drinking free coffee and choosing the options.
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>> we're not all down the BMW showroom, drinking free coffee and choosing the options.
...and eating doughnuts;-)
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>> The Vectras are slowley being replaced by 3 Series
>> BMWs because BMW offered the best deal.
Which is absolutely fine and if they are the best tool for the job, crack on. But the whole problem with this sort of thing is perception. My local force - in this respect at least - doesn't seem to grasp that. It comes across as if they're wasting money even if they aren't.
Last edited by: paulb on Thu 5 Aug 10 at 13:30
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>> Which is absolutely fine and if they are the best tool for the job, crack
>> on. But the whole problem with this sort of thing is perception.
I'll ask workshops if they'll stick some Skoda badges on the Jag!
What we have found is that the Jags in particular have so much road prescence that a significant number of scroats have decided to give up straight away rather than try and make off. If that alone avoids pursuits, it's worth it.
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>> What we have found is that the Jags in particular have so much road prescence
>> that a significant number of scroats have decided to give up straight away rather than
>> try and make off. If that alone avoids pursuits, it's worth it.
Is it all bark and no bite tho?
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'What we have found is that the Jags in particular have so much road prescence that a significant number of scroats have decided to give up straight away rather than try and make off. If that alone avoids pursuits, it's worth it. '
It's the driver of the police car that avoids the pursuit, not the scrote. The decision to avoid a pursuit is yours midlife. You'll doubtless be well aware of ACPO policy on pursuits and your personal responsibility in such situations.
As for my comments on the choice of police cars, we make do perfectly well with Mondeo estates in my force. If you have the facts about the purchase price of the BMW's versus the Fords then let's have them.
Back to the original post though - I'd be delighted to hear the decent argument in support of the use of that trike. Utter cods in my opinion.
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>> It's the driver of the police car that avoids the pursuit, not the scrote. The
>> decision to avoid a pursuit is yours midlife. You'll doubtless be well aware of ACPO
>> policy on pursuits and your personal responsibility in such situations.
Is that post for real???
If you read it correctly, then you'd see that the Jag seems to stop a pursuit developing in the first place, which is fine by me. I'd be happy if I never had to do another again.
And yes, I'm more than aware of ACPO policy on pursuits and I'm totally at a loss what your point is.
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The point is that you can't be sure it's the 'presence' of the car that deters the pursuit, but regardless of what you're driving, YOU avoid the pursuit. It could be inferred from your post that you engage in the pursuit when you're driving something other than the Jag. You needn't.
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>> you can't be sure it's the 'presence' of the car that deters the pursuit
If you had experience of stopping cars using a mondeo and most stopped and some made off.
Then if you later gained some experience of stopping cars in similar circumstances in a jag and fewer made off, then it'd be totally reasonable to say suspects are deterred from making off when they see a big, capable jag in the rearview.
Can you be sure? Sure as you could ever reasonably be.
>> YOU avoid the pursuit.
As far as i can tell there's 2 options to avoid a pursuit --
the suspect doesn't run
or
the police don't chase.
I'd rather we bought Jags that meant fewer suspects made a run for it than we bought mondeos and let them go!
Last edited by: CraigP on Thu 5 Aug 10 at 20:50
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>> then it'd be totally reasonable to say suspects are deterred
>> from making off when they see a big, capable jag in the rearview.
The suspects are doing pretty well then. I still get the XF confused with that big Hyundai thing they sell in the States. Now if it were an E-Type or Series III...
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>> The point is that you can't be sure it's the 'presence' of the car that
>> deters the pursuit, but regardless of what you're driving, YOU avoid the pursuit. It could be inferred from your post that you engage in the pursuit when you're driving something other than the Jag. You needn't.
>>
Quite a bizarre post!
When the naughty person gets in the car and specifically says he didn't run because of the car I was driving, then that's good enough for me, and makes me quite 'sure'.
I only engage in a pursuit when necessary, regardless of what I drive, to suggest otherwise is quite insulting. Despite the overload of lame Roadwars type programmes, TV is not entertainment, not real life. We don't engage in pursuits unless absolutely necessary and we're than happy to call them off when they start getting dodgy.
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I'm not convinced that it's worth buying a Jag over a Ford because of perceived 'presence'. I'd want facts to convince me that the Jag prevented pursuits and then a load of other factors come into play. I don't need the lecture about the TV programmes versus operational duty. I'm still operational with 25 years service. Perhaps it's our different perspectives from our different, shall I say, positions of responsibility.
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Do people really take much notice of what badge is on a fully kitted out traffic car that is lit up like Blackpool and stopping them ?
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No probably not. But... I do notice them when they are either chasing someone else or lurking furtively between the trucks in lane one.....
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>> No probably not. But... I do notice them when they are either chasing someone else
>> or lurking furtively between the trucks in lane one.....
>>
Ours are more sneaky, they lurk on the "on" slip roads, makes it easier for the coffee and donuts. :-)
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....they do that here too. Hadn't thought of the comestibles angle. Sounds plausible though.....Some of them don't even have the grace to get orange stripes put on their cars either....sneaky.
Anyway, I'd love to stop and chat but I'd better get on with some work to earn some money to pay the tax to fund the pensions for you lot......
:-)
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>> Anyway, I'd love to stop and chat but I'd better get on with some work
>> to earn some money to pay the tax to fund the pensions for you lot......
>>
>> :-)
>>
Thanks ! :-)
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>> I'm not convinced that it's worth buying a Jag over a Ford because of perceived
>> 'presence'. I'd want facts to convince me that the Jag prevented pursuits and then a
>> load of other factors come into play. I don't need the lecture about the TV
>> programmes versus operational duty. I'm still operational with 25 years service. Perhaps it's our different
>> perspectives from our different, shall I say, positions of responsibility.
>>
Oh sorry sir!!!! (Then again, you don't know what rank I am either..if you want to make it a willy waving competition)
You seem to have completely disregarded the comments I've made regarding, weight, performance and handling when carrying weight, reliability, initial purchase costs and residual value.
Then again, my many years have all been frontline, 24/7 shifts. Would you care to share what your role is.
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Midlife, no I haven't disregarded all the points about cost, handling, weight carrying etc. All familiar stuff to me having been an AFO for 16 yrs and been involved in the purchase of vehicles for a previous specialist team. I accept that some vehicles are unsuitable for some purposes (No one would reasonably argue the use of a Focus for the motorway for example) but I think it gets a bit blurred when we compare a Mondeo estate with the Jag perhaps. No, I don't have the specifics to hand about load capacity, cost, residual value etc, but do you? If the Jag is cheaper to own for a specific period and mileage then of course I'll accept the facts. I'm allowed to take issue with your post about pursuits, it's a public forum! Doesn't mean I'm right, I accept that and I accept your view. Presumably neither of us would be on here if we didn't enjoy the debate. No, it's not a willy waving competition (you've got a special way with words!). I firmly believe, and demonstrate, that rank is administrative only. I actually don't care much for being called 'Sir', first names are fine for me, my team all know who I am. It's essential that I show respect to anybody doing a good job. I frequently see people performing quite exceptionally and I'm continually surprised at how hard people on the team are working and I tell them so. I digress. Frontline all my service. 24 hr response now, directly bordering the Met and I'm duty Insp. I love it and I'm still out there with them as much as I can be. I was a PC 4 years ago, bit of a final push before the 30. Regards.
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>> BMW/Jaguar supply the cars for peanuts, other manufacturers are
>> not so ready to give discounts.
I'd be interested to know what level of discount we're talking about here. One assumes that the mfr regards having one of their vehicles decked out in Battenberg stripes and lights as good publicity, i.e. "look how ace our motors are, even the Police use them".
>> Still, Police driving 'luxury' vehicles always makes a good headline.
Trouble is, BMW and Jag are regarded still as prestige makes by a lot of people (at least, those who pay any attention to such things) and - for private buyers at least - they are expensive.
So in the absence of any transparency about how much the things have actually cost the police authority, people are going to think they are being profligate. And when you add in little frolics like the one reported by the OP, it really doesn't look very clever.
Also, Sussex have a bit of form in this regard - don't know whether it's still around but they used to have an unmarked Evo VIII. Not sure that would necessarily meet many practicality criteria - didn't they used to have service intervals that were something silly like 4,500 miles?
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...So in the absence of any transparency about how much the things have actually cost the police authority...
Each police authority meeting agenda is a public document, and is probably published on the net.
It may say something about vehicle budgets, although purchasing information is often deemed to be commercially sensitive and withheld.
One or two of us could have a look at the agendas for our local forces and see what we come up with.
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If you're interested in the costs try a FOI letter to your local constabulary..
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The Durham Police annual report tells me they are spending £700,000 on new vehicles this financial year, but it doesn't say a great deal else.
No sign on the web of a meeting agenda, but they cross my desk in hard copy form now and again, so I will keep an eye out.
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Frankly I don't care if the local police go out and buy Bentley's or Reliant Robins. They are targetted with doing a job, and provided that they accomplish that, within the guidelines and budgets that they have, they can wear green tutus for all I care.
In this country we seem so scared that somebody might be getting an advantage that we haven't been offered. Usually I doubt they are.
We want the best police force in the world, but we don't want to pay for it. They must enforce every law that we personally think important, but if they enforce one that we don't think is important or that impacts me, then we think they should be doing something else.
They must do the best job in the world, and they must have the cheapest equipment which we personally approve of. God forbid that they might have a car which I can't afford.
It all seems to be a very petty, small-minded approach where we worry far too much about what everybody else has/does/thinks.
I know that everybody in here is justifiably self-righteous and will no doubt jump to their feet shouting many morally justiifable reasons as to why they're commenting only because they want the world to be a better place.
I, on the other hand, think we might be better off with our noses and our ready judgments a little less firmly buried in somebody else's life.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 5 Aug 10 at 13:25
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If you read the report they establish early on that they are on trial, free, gratis for nothing.
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All the people whinging about the police using BMW's etc, know deep down that they are green with envy, and dream of driving a traffic car. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 5 Aug 10 at 13:31
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>> All the people whinging about the police using BMW's etc, know deep down that they
>> are green with envy, and dream of driving a traffic car. :-)
>>
Wouldn't say I was green with envy, but if someone chucked me the keys to one and said "go off and have a play" it would be rude to say no. Wouldn't it?
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I wouldn't pretend to know anything about the subject but as a layman it strikes me that it would be very good PR indeed if any vehicle funded by British tax and used in the pursuit of British public services were chosen from models actually manufactured in Britain.
Being seen as the car of choice, for example, as motorway patrol vehicles can't do any harm for the image of a brand or model so it might just be a clever move to promote domestically manufactured cars and other vehicles in such a way.
But what do I know ?
:-)
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Could you name a few of these domestically manufactured cars that are suitable for motorway and pursuit use, Humph ? I can't think of many.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 5 Aug 10 at 16:44
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Jaguars are. And well err, They could have Micras?
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Of course there aren't many but that's exactly why it would be a good idea in my view. Anything which might just encourage people to favour products made here has to be good for our domestic economy.
I'd far rather see Jags and Range Rovers being used than BMWs and Volvos.
I do know it's not that simple but and that many factors have to be allowed for but if it was my decision I'd push things that way if I could.
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A police business manager told me that they could get 1 series cheaper than Focuses on lease, no reason to believe that similar discounts are available up the range.
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Somehow feel that a couple of big plods in anti-stab jackets wouldn't look quite right in a 1 series.....
Unless of course they'd had a facial and got plenty of gel in their hair.
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>> Unless of course they'd had a facial and got plenty of gel in their hair.
>>
You have seen some Met police then. :-)
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Why do Police Services need to buy their cars. All the fire appliances in London are leased. Saving millions.
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Sussex. New police transport is a 110 mph trike. - Zero
