Motoring Discussion > Fleet planning: long legs, long term	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: WillDeBeest	Replies: 65

Wed 20 Apr 16 11:54   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Rather than jump all over LL's grotty-X5 thread, let's put this in here. Current fleet, as regular readers will know, is a 2009 (S211) E220 estate and a 2012 (E92) 325d coupé. The 325 is doing exactly what I bought it for last year: getting me to work and sporting events quickly (by Southeast standards) economically, comfortably and with a modest modicum of fun and style. The only unforeseen glitch is that Mrs Beest won't drive it. At all. Ever. Which means that the LEC, which is wearing its years and 80,000 miles as big Mercedes still can, has to serve as her runabout for occasional work trips into Reading, local ferrying of her teaching gear and anything else she needs to do. She is not one of nature's drivers; she's safe enough, but achieves it through excessive and sometimes embarrassing caution. It has been nearly a year since anyone left anything hard and abrasive where the car was entitled to be, but I have to take her abilities and prejudices into account somewhere. The problem I offer the panel is two leggy teenage Beestlings. The LEC was chosen to accommodate them, which it still does but it's getting tight. B. Major (15) is 1.82m now and looks like stopping in the high 1.8s; his brother (13) is now 1.79m and may pass 2.0 in the life of our next car. I remain 1.97m and Mrs Beest a mere 1.77m. We had an MPV and didn't like it. 4x4s don't live up to their promises in terms of space unless they're truly enormous (Toureg / XC90) and I just don't want one. What might we consider as a family bus - and where's the fun going to come from if we have to replace the chariot too? Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 11:56 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:03   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Pressed Post too soon but meant to add that this is at least a year away. And that the plan should preferably avoid having two BMWs on the drive at once, lest the neighbours think we've adopted their his-n-hers grey Mercedes strategy. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:06   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Alanovich

Superb post. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:10   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - legacylad

You definitely need lots of (E) space Some might disagree Tee hee Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:15   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Old Navy

Problem solved, the new Honda Jazz is claimed to have the same leg room as an S Class. :-) www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/honda/jazz/hatchback/review Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 12:15 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 18:20   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - tyrednemotional

The Honda HR-V I sat in last week had a ginormous amount of legroom in the back. Just sayin' Of course, head room may be just as important. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 18:37   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Old Navy

>> The Honda HR-V I sat in last week had a ginormous amount of legroom in >> the back. >> Just sayin' >> Of course, head room may be just as important. >> Same floorpan as the Jazz. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 18:46   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

>>Same floorpan as the Jazz. What, like wee proof? ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 18:53   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Old Navy

>> What, like wee proof? >> >> ;-) >> Your time will come, if you last that long. Trying to keep up with young mountain bikers can be fatal. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 18:56   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Ach well, I'd rather go shouting "yippee!" than "nurse!"... ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 19:07   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Old Navy

I prefer "yippee, nurse". Most don't get the choice though. :-) Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 19:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 19:19   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - tyrednemotional

I understand the normal etiquette is "Oh b*****", rather than " Yipee" ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 19:39   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Indeed, in fact they often, in reverse order, appear in the same sentence... ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:09   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - rtj70

The current Superb has plenty of leg room in the back. But you know that already. The current Superb is also a lot better looking than the mark 2 version, especially in hatch format. I'd say it looks better than the (nearly as big) current Passat. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:16   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Clk Sec

The Insignia might be just the car for you. Not bad looking and plenty of legroom. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:41   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

}:---) Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 12:43 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 12:52   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Ok I'll get it in early so you can reject it and get it out of the way. ;-) Mondeo estate. They are fab. You can get good cheap ones, good expensive ones and good medium priced ones. It's really hard to get a bad one. But, people don't buy them because they are Mondeos. People are silly sometimes. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 13:06   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

The Mondeo was on the long list last time. It has the space but the cheesy interior meant it didn't make the shortlist. There's a new Mondeo since then and I'll have a look. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 13:15   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Clk Sec

The Mazda6 estate might be worth a thought. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 13:19   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

I accidentally got to poke around a Mondeo Vignale in the Trafford Centre a few weeks ago. Very very nice, but very very dear. Second hand ones might be a good call. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 20:37   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - PeterS

www.carwow.co.uk/best/cars-most-legroom-0218 :) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 20:32   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - PeterS

If an E class estate is getting too small, then I'm not sure any of its competitors will be much use. And if you don't want a 4x4 or MPV then moving up a class to the A8, S class or 7 series will give you appreciably more cabin space, at an up front and ongoing running cost!! Now I know it's a BMW, and it's no looker, but the 5 GT is based on a 7 series not a 5, so might be suitable? Fun-wise, it's available with a 4.8 litre V8 petrol engine! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 20:52   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

OK, let's refine the parameters a little. I don't just need a car with plenty of legroom for four; I need a capacious, versatile boot (which excludes the 5GT but not the 3GT) and something that'll be fun to travel in on long four-up trips. But I need to look at the fleet as a whole. I need - well, want - something nice to drive to work, something capacious for the family and something that won't faze Mrs Beest - that's three cars but I have room and budget for only two. So one has to be an allrounder. But which one? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 20:56   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - sooty123

and something >> that won't faze Mrs Beest what type of cars faze her? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:02   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Big ones, automatics, manuals (!), fast ones, slow ones, other people's cars...I could go on. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:12   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - sooty123

Quite a list, might be a tricky one. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:04   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - PeterS

I thought the 5GT had a pretty big boot...it's a great big hatchback... But a google just now shows it's about the same size as the 3GT with 500 litres or so with the seats up, and 1700 litres with the seats down. 100 litres than than 3 GT and 100 litres smaller than a LEC But if they're both up for review it seems the quandary is you want something nice to drive day to day, but that doesn't need to be large. And a large car suitable for 3+ >6'6" people that's still small enough for Mrs B drive comfortably. And that's a tough one... I still,think that a large MB or BMW estate/GT/CLS type thing will have to satisfy the nice to drive and spacious requirement. And something like a hatchback/MPV crossover type thing - a Golf plus? - which is small enough to be manoeuvrable and easy to drive, with good visibility. But that has enough height for an upright seating position to make it comfortable for taller passengers! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:10   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Only one needs to hold all four of us. The chariot now is a decent three-seater, which is all we ever ask of it (as I did picking up B. Major and his visiting German this evening.) But I'd like the fun car (whichever it is) to hold two cricket bags. Again, the 3's boot was designed with golf clubs in mind, so no problem there. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:33   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Bromptonaut

>> OK, let's refine the parameters a little. I don't just need a car with plenty >> of legroom for four; I need a capacious, versatile boot (which excludes the 5GT but >> not the 3GT) and something that'll be fun to travel in on long four-up trips. A Berlingo ticks most of those boxes. All of them if fun doesn't need racy performance. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 09:37   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

A Berlingo makes lots of sense Bromp. Trouble is, not everyone wants to be sensible. And while it's entirely reasonable and laudable to not give two hoots what anyone else thinks, it is also quite reasonable to care at least a little bit about what you think of yourself. The problem I'd have with a Berlingo would be the reflection in shop windows while waiting at traffic lights, thinking something along the lines of has my more than half a century on this planet come to this? ;-)) Reply to this message | Report message       2

Thu 21 Apr 16 09:52   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

I'm sure there's a lot of truth there, Bromp, and a new Berlingo would be a vastly superior travelling machine to the 1970s and 80s cars my parents put me in; we'd never have gone to the South of France in a Renault 12. We already have more car than we strictly need. As Humph says, this is more about irrational wants and prejudices. And while a Cactus might be fun (although Mrs Beest rejected it out of hand when I pointed one out) a Berlingo is pure Sensible Shoes, not something that would cosset me after work or waft us away on a long family trip. Sorry. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 10:00   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

The keyword, the secret to the highest level of automotive karma, the light seen in the end, the revelation, is indeed "waft" !! Once experienced, nothing compares. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:10   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - rtj70

>> but the 5 GT is based on a 7 series not a 5 The current 5 series (F10/F11) is based on the 7 series platform (F01). As is the 5 Series Gran Turismo (F07). Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 21:12   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Either way they're not for us. I borrowed a 520d for a day and thought it was great to drive but it's no better in the back than the E, probably smaller. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 22:05   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Why not let Mrs Beest have whatever she wants and then decide? Seems like the line of least resistance. Having said that, my wife "wants" an MX5, totally failing to recognise that she regularly shifts parties of crumblies, large pieces of artwork, a dog, multiple teenagers, supermarket shopping... Well, you see what I mean. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 22:40   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - rtj70

If she doesn't like large cars, why's she driving the E Class? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 22:49   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

I'll let WDB answer your direct question of course rtj70, but for a bit of diversion in the meanwhile, I find the E feels a lot smaller on the road when you're driving it than its outward appearance would suggest. Very easy to park for example. Even my wife manages to drive it without knocking bits off it. Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 22:50 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 23:06   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Kevin

>Having said that, my wife "wants" an MX5, totally failing to recognise that she regularly >shifts parties of crumblies,.. Tell her to divorce the crumblies and buy a Westfield. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 23:09   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Are they quite good then? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 12:18   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - PeterS

>> >> The current 5 series (F10/F11) is based on the 7 series platform (F01). As is >> the 5 Series Gran Turismo (F07). >> I don't realise that - thanks! Though the GT has far more space for rear passengers in my experience, as well as a much better interior. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 14:19   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

It's certainly huge in the back seat - makes it very popular in China, apparently. But the two-way tailgate steals a lot of space and adds weight where you don't want it. Wikipedia describes it as 'mid-sized'! The 3GT is only about 175mm shorter but uses the space better. It's better proportioned too, not feline like the 4GC but svelte enough for my eye. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 14:37   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - rtj70

Did you know there's a Chinese mark 5 series long-wheelbase version (F18). I certainly didn't. It's nearly as long as the standard wheelbase 7 series - but has a longer wheelbase. New 5 series to be shown in October - so some of the older ones will lose some value. Still not big enough for WDB. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 20 Apr 16 23:31   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Avant

It'll probably help if we can establish what it is about the 325 that Mrs Won'tdeBeest doesn't like - or putting it another way, what her 'must-haves' are in a car. Pending this, my immediate thoughts are: Either keep the 325 and get a Superb estate (in a year's time you should get a good deal on one of the now-new 2.0 petrol Superbs, 220 or 280 bhp).There will be room for Beestlings in one of those without them becoming B flat major and minor. Or get the X5 that you might well prefer, and if a two-BMW household seems too twee (it needn't as the cars look so different) maybe a Golf R or GTI, or even GTE, might replace the 325. I'll be able to tell you in a few weeks' time whether a V60 D4 might be worth putting on your list, given your happy experience with a Volvo (its longevity was one of the factors which helped to decide in Volvo's favour). Last edited by: Avant on Wed 20 Apr 16 at 23:32 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 00:12   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - rtj70

>> Golf R or GTI, or even GTE Some on here would steer clear of a DSG equipped car as a second hand long-term keeper. So a GTE with batteries and an electric motor in the DSG gearbox.... maybe best avoided.li-ion Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 09:31   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

...what it is about the 325... Thanks Avant. I wish I knew! I did the shopping last year but she went to visit the dealer and drive it before we decided. She reported then that it was 'fine' - which, as anyone with a wife will know, is a short word with many possible meanings. To within an inch or so in any dimension it's the same size as the S60, with which she was perfectly happy. It has a similarly well-sorted diesel engine and a manual gearbox. It has slim pillars, deep windows and a good view out. There are no fancy controls or touchscreens; it's really a very easy car to just drive. And, before anyone suggests it, it's nothing to do with which wheels are driven. Driving gently, neither this nor the S60 give much of a clue as to where the power meets the road. I admit there's a bit of 'statement' about the 325: after 15 years of sensible, family-focused cars, I liked the idea of something a tiny bit frivolous. Fortysomething wives aren't keen on their fortysomething husbands showing signs of frivolity. So perhaps it's not the car that she disapproves of. }:---( Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 09:36   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Old Navy

Could be that it is "your toy", a bit like "her house" not to be messed with. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 21 Apr 16 09:44   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

You might be closer to the mark than you think WDB. A friend of mine who had a business which was going well, decided to treat himself to a Panamera a while back. He's always been a car nut and for the first time in his life was able to indulge that passion. His children were grown and he no longer needed a practical car and was in a position to afford it. He kept it less than three months because his ( fifty something in this case ) wife hated it. He never did get a clear answer as to the reason why she did, but it was clear from the outset that it was a problem to her for him to have it. Strange but true. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 15:34   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Our visiting German student is well impressed by the 'cool Bay Em Vay'. His dad has an Astra, apparently, and keeps trying to sneak off in his mum's Audi. But then, if you're trying to mollify a reluctant wife, you probably shouldn't start with a car that impresses teenage boys. }:---S Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 15:53   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

I have a German neighbour. Pretty senior guy at Bentley. He travels all over the world in the course of his work and among other things gets to do the ice lake testing etc in the latest models. They can have any VAG group car they like as their company car and they get replaced every 6 months. There is some kind of a salary adjustment upwards or downwards depending on what car they choose. He always takes a Fabia estate, whereas others go for more exotic options. When I've asked him why he doesn't have something more "interesting" he just explains that when you've been testing Bentleys all day a Gti or a whatever whatever doesn't really thrill all that much so he might as well just have something practical. I don't hate him as such, he's actually a very nice chap... ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:12   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Alanovich

Any VAG car? Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 4x4 DSG estate Laurin & Klement please. Brown. Beige leather. Or a Phaeton. Brown. Your bloke's deranged. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:15   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

He's Bavarian actually. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:17   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Alanovich

Then he's p1ssed. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:18   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

That too. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:26   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

Does his house have little pointy turrets all round it? * * Not because he's Bavarian; because the house is in Cheshire. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:29   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Do you enjoy sex and travel WDB? ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:38   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Avant

He's not old enough for SAGA (Send All Grannies Away....or Sex And Games Again). Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:40   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Oh well, fair enough, it was just that I had a suggestion for him, but I thought better of it ! ;-)) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 18:15   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - rtj70

>> Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 4x4 DSG estate Laurin & Klement No such model with the new Superb. You have to go for the 280PS 2.0 turbo petrol instead. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 20:31   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Alanovich

>> >> Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 4x4 DSG estate Laurin & Klement >> >> No such model with the new Superb. You have to go for the 280PS 2.0 >> turbo petrol instead. >> I are disappoint. Oh a well, kebab incoming. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 22 Apr 16 21:50   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

Not sure if I've ever had a kebab, well, not one of those wrapped in pitta bread things I've seen carved off a rotating thing with salad added. I've had skewered meat and peppers etc grilled on a barbecue but I've never really fancied one of those take away thingies. More of a fish supper man in truth. They are probably very nice, no moral objections to one, just not felt so inclined to date. Am I missing anything much? Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 22:08   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - No FM2R

I would sell my soul for one right now. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:52   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Pezzer

I have exactly the same issue with my e92 but frankly I dont give a ........ :-) I think it could be something to do with being too low and her being somewhat vertically challenged Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 16:58   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Runfer D'Hills

There is something to be said for choosing a car you like but that your wife doesn't like driving. They move things. Seats, air vents, radio stations etc, and they leave sweet wrappers in the door bins. Best to discourage them in the first place. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 22 Apr 16 17:06   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Pezzer

absolutely.......... I think it is also something to do with the fact that it is probably the one thing I wont negotiate over. (Happy for her to have whatever she likes/needs/wants carwise btw !) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 17:24   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - Cliff Pope

Leg room has two forms: One is the available space to stretch your legs out perfectly straight from the hip, and a seat adjustable so that the front doesn't press underneath your knees and give you pins and needles.. Two is a seat that remains comfortable if you bend your knees upwards, but doesn't put so much pressure on your cocyx (?) that your behind goes numb. "Room" measured in isolation isn't the whole picture. Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Fri 22 Apr 16 at 17:24 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 22 Apr 16 19:46   Fleet planning: long legs, long term - WillDeBeest

True enough, Cliff, and this is one largely undocumented feature of the 'premium' marques I've had: their seat shape and (especially) padding are simply better. The Verso had oodles of space for heads and legs but the seats themselves were uniformly hard and flat, and the cushions and backrests too short, which got wearing after a while. In contrast, my two Saabs and one Volvo had perfectly judged padding, yielding at the surface but firm enough underneath to locate me securely and comfortably. Big enough too. The Mercedes seats are on the firm side, but the shape, size and structure are excellent, good enough to drive for two successive 400-mile days across France and get out needing no more than a stroll, a pizza and a glass of wine. And the 325 combines most of the virtues of the Volvo with electric adjustment and deliciously soft leather. The back seats are surprisingly good too. I do like a dedicated four-seater if they're four really good seats. The Mercedes CLS is like that, as is the 5GT. I don't know if the 3GT can be configured that way but if it can, I'd be tempted. Reply to this message | Report message