Motoring Discussion > Diesel car, a future purchase	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Rudedog	Replies: 34

Sun 17 Apr 16 23:26   Diesel car, a future purchase - Rudedog

I'm about a year away from a new car purchase, I've always had diesels, I would stick with them apart from this nagging thing in my mind about the future of diesels and whether they are going to get legislated out of our towns or suffer massive increased taxes. I would keep the car for a long time (current car 10yrs from new) so this could make a difference. The petrol and diesel version of the car I'm looking at are roughly the same performance wise. So are there any definite changes on the horizon that would mean a switch to petrol? Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 17 Apr 16 23:41   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

You could tell us which car so we can tell you why not to go for the model. I take it this is a private purchase? I'm not aware of any changes. The removal of the 3% BIK charge for diesel has been pushed back but this is not a company car is it so that's irrelevant. You also don't say how many miles you do a year. A small capacity petrol turbo might be an option. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 17 Apr 16 23:56   Diesel car, a future purchase - Rudedog

Sorry yes private buy. To be honest not really concerned about mileage, do like the lazy drive of a diesel but could be persuaded to change to petrol. Car is ; VW Golf R Line Edition either in 1.4 TSI (150 PS) or 2.0 TDI (150 PS), both DSG which I have now so happy with that. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 00:05   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

I'd try the 1.4TSI... you might be pleasantly surprised. I don't get quite as many MPG as my previous diesels with the engine, it's smoother, quieter and you can notice it's lighter at the front end. If this is a purchase for next year then the 1.4 will be replaced by a 1.5 turbo petrol unit in the Golf. Similar power/torque but cleaner and more MPG. In fact, the Golf is due a refresh this year. Probably why there is currently an R-Line.... as in special edition before it's superseded. Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 00:06 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 00:07   Diesel car, a future purchase - R.P.

I had a go in one before I bought the T5...it was a nice drive. Probably a less risky buy than a VAG diesel at this particular time. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 00:08   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

Note the VAG 1.4TSI will have the 7 speed dry clutch DSG. The 2.0TDI will have the 6 speed wet clutch DSG. As a private buy I take it the latter is better long term. If you lived near me (Manchester way) I'm happy to demo a 1.4 TFSI DSG Audi A3. Same car underneath as the Golf. Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 00:09 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 00:10   Diesel car, a future purchase - Avant

If you like plenty of torque, the VW Group petrol TSIs are as good if not better than the diesels. I have a 2.0 TSI (217 bhp) in my Octavia which will do over 40 mpg on a good run, largely because it need so little pressure on the accelerator to give strong performance. Try the 1.4 TSI Golf and I think you'll be impressed. Ref your general thoughts on diesels, I'm probably doing the wrong thing going back to diesel for my next car (having said I wouldn't) - but the Volvo V60 is one of the few cars that SWMBO is comfortable in, and the only petrol automatic available is a puny 1.6. Last edited by: Avant on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 00:11 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 00:28   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

>> Try the 1.4 TSI Golf and I think you'll be impressed. ... in 150PS format. But the 1.5 TSI's are imminent. Due in a facelifted Golf mark 7 before the end of 2016. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 00:58   Diesel car, a future purchase - Stuartli

Even the basic 122bhp VW petrol TSi engines are impressive performers and a petrol unit is always more flexible. I have the 1.4bhp 168bhp TSi petrol engine (the T represents Twin for supercharged and turbocharged) and apart from excellent fuel economy and performance, the fact that it's a small engine rather than a big diesel lump means little, if any, understeer and superior steering feedback. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 01:01   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

>> (the T represents Twin for supercharged and turbocharged) Not anymore. The TSIs are all turbo only now. I'd have another Audi A3 Saloon 1.4TFSI DSG next year and be happy. But I'm not sure about the new 'revised' A3 due soon. Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 18 Apr 16 at 01:02 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 06:49   Diesel car, a future purchase - PeterS

Some details of the facelifted A3 were released a couple of weeks ago. More standard kit, but still waiting for pricing... preview.tinyurl.com/h7vw25v Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 10:39   Diesel car, a future purchase - Avant

The 2.0 petrol should be good. If that report (thanks, Peter) is correct, Audi have gone back to the original TFSI designation rather than TSI. Maybe there's a difference, although it presumably isn't the same as between RTM and RTFM.... Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 10:48   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

>> Audi have gone back to the original TFSI designation rather than TSI. Well my Audi A3 says TFSI on the boot now. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 10:43   Diesel car, a future purchase - Rudedog

Thanks everyone just what I was looking for.. I'm down in Kent so when the time comes I'll book a test drive to compare the 'new' petrol to the diesel, currently I'm still in PD land with the 6-speed DSG. I do like the R-Line setup because they have a few more toys as standard, I was playing with going one up to either the GTD or GTi but my build would push them past 30K. With the R-Line Edition I'll get the panoramic sunroof as standard and I don't really need all that power, I'm quite OK with the 140PS from my PD. I was worried about the stresses put on the 1.4 to get to 150PS so I would feel happier with a 1.5 and just turbocharged and the same power. I do like the way a diesel drives but looking at the specs it's interesting to see that the petrol 1.4 produces peak power at just 1500rpm compared to the 2.0 TDi at 1750rpm. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 10:48   Diesel car, a future purchase - Runfer D'Hills

I'm with you on the diesel thing, I love the lazy torque of a powerful modern diesel combined with sensible fuel economy. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 12:16   Diesel car, a future purchase - Stuartli

"Not anymore. The TSis are all turbo only now>" Yes, I'm very aware of that. I was talking about my engine...:-) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 16 12:18   Diesel car, a future purchase - Bill Payer

Presumably the diesel is the same EA288 engine that’s in my wife’s Tiguan. I have to say it’s scarily complicated with multiple cooling circuits, dual EGRs, dual pressure belt driven oil pump etc etc. Hers has the added complication of using SCR, so uses Ad Blue. The DPF doesn’t normally passive regen on these cars – it does a forced regen every few hundred miles (which in some ways is good, as it’s no longer necessary to take them for a weekly blast). I only ever intended that we’d keep the car for 3yrs and I was set on leasing it but go up the range a bit and buying made more sense as the residuals looked very strong. Then VW made their announcement and I fear we may be stuck with the car for some time. I’d have no problem leasing a diesel VW but I’d be very nervous about buying one now, both for the specific issues that may arise with a diesel VW and because their misdemeanours have only served to accelerate the tide against diesel. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 16:29   Diesel car, a future purchase - Rudedog

Just to add to my question, I heard on the radio today about a possible big push for 'mini clean air areas' being setup around towns/cities to try and reduce the number of diesel powered cars. Seems that government could allow local authorities to set some kind of charge/tax to discourage their use around towns (??size of town). This is the kind of future issue that could, if it was introduced, sway me towards petrol. On the plus side they also mentioned that there could be another scrapage scheme to try and remove older diesels, although the trade-in would have to be quite high to tempt me to get rid of my trusty 10 year old car. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 16:53   Diesel car, a future purchase - Cliff Pope

>> scrapage scheme to >> try and remove older diesels, "Older" meaning before they stopped fiddling the tests, if they really have? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 17:30   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

I wonder what impact the new vehicle excise duty rates will have on diesels and high polluting cars when it comes into effect in 2017? Flat rate of £140pa isn't it regardless of CO2 emissions with only zero emission cars being exempt. Cars over £40k will pay an extra £310 in year 1. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 17:36   Diesel car, a future purchase - Lygonos

Isn't the £310 premium for the first 5 years? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 17:42   Diesel car, a future purchase - legacylad

I had no idea that a flat rate of £140 was being introduced in 2017. Watch all those who currently pay £20pa to start complaining, notwithstanding that they might lose £1k a year in depreciation. Does this mean an M3 saloon with a tasty 4.0 V8, say 5 yo, would be £140? My nephew will be pleased when the current tax of £290 on the 2004 330 drops to £140. Happy days for him. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 17:49   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

Won't this be for new cars only? And not applied retrospectively? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 18:16   Diesel car, a future purchase - Old Navy

The new tax rates apply to cars registered after 1st April 2017. www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty/vehicle-excise-duty Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 18:17 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 18:21   Diesel car, a future purchase - CGNorwich

Won't this be for new cars only? Yes it will apply to cars registered after April 2017. You will pay a graduated amount rated on emissions for the first year and a flat rate of £140 p.a. thereafter. The first year tax could be as high as £2,000! www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/149454/new-road-tax-vehicle-excise-duty-ved-to-soar-in-2017 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 18:23   Diesel car, a future purchase - legacylad

Boo. I'd have no problem paying £140 for that M3 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 20:34   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

Probably a rush by some to buy cars before the new VED comes in. And this new VED scheme won't deter people from going for high polluting cars. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 20:45   Diesel car, a future purchase - Old Navy

I read somewhere that dealers are expected to pre register a lot of cars before the tax change. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 20:52   Diesel car, a future purchase - Runfer D'Hills

Still find it amazing that someone paying 10, 20, or 30 thousand pounds or more for a car that will depreciate by a thumping great amount from day one would be swayed by a hundred quid here or there on annual tax. But they are apparently. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 21:14   Diesel car, a future purchase - legacylad

I know two such people Bonkers, but I wouldnt say that to their faces Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 21:34   Diesel car, a future purchase - rtj70

I agree Runfer. There are people who have bought new cars so they only pay £20 road tax or example whereas their old car was fine and did the job. But they take a huge hit in depreciation to save around £100pa in VED. Madness. Or get one with better MPG to save some money... but pay thousands and thousands to change. And then do low miles. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 27 Apr 16 21:57   Diesel car, a future purchase - legacylad

I know a retired couple who sold an immaculate 5yo top of the range Mondeo for a top of the range brand new Fiesta. They were telling me how much cheaper it was to tax, and 10mpg better. And they drove less than 5k miles a year. Hate to think how much they lost on the Mondeo from new. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 28 Apr 16 06:09   Diesel car, a future purchase - Tigger

>> Still find it amazing that someone paying 10, 20, or 30 thousand pounds or more >> for a car that will depreciate by a thumping great amount from day one would >> be swayed by a hundred quid here or there on annual tax. >> >> But they are apparently. >> Oh yes, I hear some truly bizarre tales of people spending £5000+ to save £20 a week. I drive a big 4x4. Road tax is £500, but depreciation has been lower than a mondeo - so overall, I'm a winner. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 28 Apr 16 08:09   Diesel car, a future purchase - Old Navy

>> I drive a big 4x4. Road tax is £500, but depreciation has been lower than >> a mondeo - so overall, I'm a winner. >> No, overall it will depreciate so you will lose, the only winner is the motor trade. Unless you have an appreciating 4x4, which I doubt. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 28 Apr 16 09:35   Diesel car, a future purchase - WillDeBeest

I'd conservatively estimate that over a 10,000-mile year a Land Cruiser (I think that's what Tigger has mentioned before) might use 500 litres more fuel than a Mondeo, so there's another £500 or so. Probably still compares favourably with a new, list-price Mondeo but less so with one bought for true Mondeo money. Reply to this message | Report message