So my 18 year old lad is desperate to get a car. Passed his test July 2015 and been on his mum's Fiesta insurance since then. So first question
1. If he gets a car just now the insurance will be a lot dearer than it will be in Aug when he has been driving for a year and been a named driver for a year. Any suggestions as to how to reduce the cost of this - is it possible to get insurance for 3 months, then cancel and take out new policy with a years experience under his belt and a years named driver (on the Fiesta). I have tried to stall and delay him until Aug but don't think its going to work.
2. Chances are that he is going to be spending about £2k so possibly private purchase. I have never purchased privately unless it has been a known car / owner. What checks etc should I be doing?
Paperwork
a. V5 matches the car VIN and V5 address matches the viewing address.
b. An online car check with MyCarCheck or similar to check for write off etc.
c. Service history (if any) and try to contact the servicing agent for info.
d. should I ask for photographic id of the seller?
e. assume need to pay in cash - should I take a pre printed receipt to be signed?
Car itself
a. tyre condition
b. all electrics and functions working
c. all keys present and blippers working
d. test drive (how do I arrange test drive insurance for an 18 year old??)
e. air con blowing cold if fitted
I am not in any way mechanically minded - is it overkill to get one of these AA type checks for a car of this price? My local indie will look at it if I take it up to him but assume I would need to buy it first for the seller to allow that!
Any advice/pointers will be appreciated!
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>>Any advice/pointers will be appreciated!
Go with him, judge the seller not the product.
Of course you should check the car, and many here will advise you how. But for me the most important thing is to judge the person selling the car to you. And IMO if he is not the owner, selling it on behalf or whatever, then don't buy it.
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>> >>Any advice/pointers will be appreciated!
>>
>> Go with him, judge the seller not the product.
Yes, check out the person, chat to them, find out why its being sold, use your sense and body language skills to see if they look and sound honest.
>>And IMO if he is not the owner, selling it on behalf or whatever,
>> then don't buy it.
And if its not from their home, where the V5 says it lives, dont buy it.
Mechanically, you have the list right, but check for mayonnaise under the oil cap. Ideally get an idea of what car the lad wants, then research its common issues.
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At that price Bobby, I'd definitely get any prospective purchase checked over by someone who knows what to look for. Yes, it will add expense but might save the future headache of big bills or the heartache of buying an unsafe car.
Having said all the above, at his age I was buying and selling old wrecks advertised in the local paper on a regular basis, just being happy that they ran for a month or two before moving them on. Times have of course changed.
His ( and maybe your ) heart will rule his head, and he will want something trendy ( if by default quite old ) but he would be better going for something deeply unfashionable (old but cared for Micra or something maybe? ) and getting more car for his money.
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Other thought that occurs to me is that if the £2000 is the top end of his budget, he might be better to limit himself to £1000 and keep the rest as a rainy day fund? That way, if ( when? ) the car needs some work, he'd have the cash to sort it.
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Absolutely, Humph. The roads are full of ratty old cars with swanky badges, whose owners have evidently stretched to buy the thing and have nothing left for light bulbs.
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Cheers for advice so far - this is a right tough one for me contrasting old sensible dad with knowing what I was like at his age.
As my indie said, number one priority is that it needs to be a car that son wants and will love and take car of. If I try and sway his opinion then he may end up with a car he doesn't love.
2k is within his budget of about 2.5k and we have talked over ongoing costs of running cars etc. Has about 1k for insurance. Currently looking at 08 plate Clios, the earlier Fiesta around 56 plate.
Agree re the seller and that would be my focus - I would like to think I wouldn't be taken in by a chancer.
I had initially tried to persuade him to go for a banger 500-1000 price range to build up his no claims but the insurance costs are just as dear as a 2k car.
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>>
>> I had initially tried to persuade him to go for a banger 500-1000 price range
>> to build up his no claims but the insurance costs are just as dear as
>> a 2k car.
>>
The Spamettes found the same, but given both girls pretty much had to insure TPFT to start with, writing off a 1 grand car would be marginally less painful than writing off a 2 grand car.
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Picking up car the seller's photo with the car & your son.
My son had his car hit - told him to photograph both cars in situ & one of driver with the cars in the background.
If the "driver's details/Ins Co etc" is a pack of lies you have some proof of driver
Same applies to photo of seller
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Adequate service history. MoT history and advisories. Online records are invaluable in giving a clue as to positive or negative vibes. Oil. Check the oil level and if low and black, exit stage left. Wish I had when I bought my first car! Was the Minor 1000 (rust bucket and insatiable oil appetite) or a tasty unmolested Triumph 500 twin. Saw the bike often around Brum later. Fool!
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Wed 13 Apr 16 at 18:01
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Check the MOT history on www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
Don't let on to the seller you have.
If you ask about how it passed the MOT and the seller lies, run away.
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>> Check the MOT history on www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
>>
>> Don't let on to the seller you have.
>> If you ask about how it passed the MOT and the seller lies, run away.
>>
This is very good advice, and an incredibly useful service. Shows the MOT history going back, and really gives a good idea of how a car has been maintained, and of course, how genuine the mileage is!!
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>> Check the MOT history on www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
You can also check for free whether it's ever been declared a Cat C or Cat D.
If you know the reg number, go on Autotrader and list it as if you were the seller. A couple of sections into listing it it will say something along the lines of do you want to continue as it's been registered Cat C and you must let the buyers know. Should say about Cat D as well.
Not completely fool proof but it might prevent you buying a accident repaired car.
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>> e. assume need to pay in cash - should I take a pre printed receipt
>> to be signed?
>>
The AA have a useful pre-printed one I used last week when I flogged my Astra:-
www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/motoring-advice/aa-car-buyers-sellers-contract.pdf
Personally I phone up my bank and do a transfer on the spot (well within the hour) rather than carry cash around.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Wed 13 Apr 16 at 18:52
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Let the owner start the car and stand where you can see the exhaust and the dash lights, no black smoke from the former and make sure the latter all go out within a second or two. And I always let the seller take me for a drive before I take over, you can hear any worrying noises more clearly when you are not watching the road and getting used to the controls. You also learn a lot about how the car has been treated by the way the seller drives it.
I always ask when the belt was last changed. If they don't know or don't even understand the question either walk or factor an early change into the equation.
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>> Let the owner start the car and stand where you can see the exhaust and
>> the dash lights, no black smoke from the former and make sure the latter all
>> go out within a second or two.
Making sure the ABS light comes on before it goes out of course.
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Don't expect to buy the first car you see, you're not buying a tin of baked beans off a supermarket shelf. The good ones will always go immediately, so try to be the first to view anything advertised.
A young lad I was asked to help broke these rules and bought the first one he saw despite me telling him to walk. It was a pile of poo.
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So any advice on car insurance? Son is looking at a Clio that is £1200 for insurance on the various sites. This is with less than 1 full year driving and no no-claims. If you change this to driving for one year (which he will be at end of July) , and then will have been a named driver for one year, premium goes down to about £850.
Thinking if he can find one that pays monthly, and then cancel it in July when he will have been driving for a full year and then take out new insurance?
I have also done a quote on Directline who I am with, with me as owner and policyholder and him a named driver and its only £600. And thats as an additional policy with no no-claims etc. But it does state that I must be the main driver.
I realise there is a whole issue around "fronting" but if son uses it to commute two miles each way to work each day, thats 4 miles a day. He will also do some running around etc but if I take it in to work once a week and give it a 30 mile round trip, then could the main driver be argued?
Think a wee call to Directline to clarify may be in order.
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"Two" miles ???
Seriously? Not exactly "needing" a car is he?
Wanting one maybe, and that's understandable of course, but it's hardly worth starting the engine for 2 miles is it?
;-)
Edit- sorry, none of my business of course !
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 13 Apr 16 at 22:38
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two miles each way Humph!!
Of course he doesnt NEED a car!
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I walk the dug further than that after I get out of the car !
Aye but I do get it.
Two miles, sheesh !
;-)
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This topic has taken a turn which made me think of the phrase "in my day". As it happens, when I was five, I had to pedal a mile each way on my trike to get shopping for my mum. It was always a bone of contention that my sister never had to do it.
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As a side note, this is the 18 year old laddie that hardly ever comes out his room - family / sociable he is not!
Since a car has came onto the agenda he comes down every night I come home from work, asks me how my day is, texts me, randomly asks me if I want a coffee etc etc !
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Fronting: if you have to ask whether what you're doing might be dishonest, it probably is. Who, regardless of mileage, would most often have the key?
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We would have one each ;)
I will give them a call tomorrow and see if there is anything legitimately that I can do - maybe put it through my Panama address.........
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You as a named driver on his insurance can give a surprising reduction. Thats what we did for our daughter.
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>> Thinking if he can find one that pays monthly, and then cancel it in July
>> when he will have been driving for a full year and then take out new
>> insurance?
I suspect most pay monthly schemes are actually annual contracts funded via a loan payable in instalments. Cost of anything which is truly month at a time is likely to be *much* higher.
And the insurers know *all* the fronting dodges. As allude to by others if you even need to ask the question......
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IIRC Directline alows (used to) cancellation of policies with refund. I did it a few years ago.
Was insuring a car for a short period (until it sold) and they were a few notes more than Tesco but the overall deal when I terminated it was better. Don't tell them what you are planning when you take it out and check the small print before you but.
If you are fronting - and you appear to be considering it - then the insurance is not valid.
Bite the bullet and start building his no-claims.
Last edited by: IJWS14 on Thu 14 Apr 16 at 12:27
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>>Bite the bullet and start building his no-claims.
Definitely.
The fronting might be difficult to sustain if (heaven forfend) there was a big claim and the insurer discovered that Mr and Mrs Bobby already each had a car of their own.
I know there is still a lot of it going on, but I wouldn't even consider it.
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You'll have to go private - almost anything at a dealer at this price range is a shed.
Once it's passed the paperwork check, a few simple checks will tell you a lot about the way it's been looked after:
Tyres - 4 matched (or at least 2 pairs) branded ones in good condition with no excessive wheel scuffing, or 4 mismatched un-branded tyres with wheels that look like they've gone 4 rounds with a crusher?
Oil - towards the top and not black and sticky and stinking?
Interior - all there or lots of bits broken and hanging off?
Ask why they're selling - people rarely unload cars like this unless there's something wrong.
Get it driven, and listen for expensive sounding noises - make sure it gets up to speed, and that the clutch doesn't slip from low - mod revs in top.
Go with your gut feel - if anything feels wrong, walk away - there's plenty more!!
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Oil in a diesel engined car will always be black.
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Ok update after being on the phone to a very helpful Directline employee for 40 mins is that I am going to try all my persuasive powers to encourage him to hold off until he has that magic one year driving and one year named cover.
Premium would be £1304 currently, would need to pay in total £573 over the first 3 months to then cancel the policy and take out a new one. Would get a pro rata refund and also charged £47 cancellation fee.
However same car, come July with the one years experience etc would be £1015 so close to £300 saving.
Yes would start earning no claims from now but in actual fact is already earning named driver discount which doesn't seem to be much different from the no claims if taken out with DL.
Maybe if I break his ankle or something, just to show him that he cant actually drive for next 3 months it would convince him?
Re advice on the actual cars, didn't realise how comprehensive the MOT checker was and this basically backs up everything the seller had told my son. It definitely looks (on paper) a genuine car, all checks seem to be stacking up. No multiple listings with the mobile number either!
I will try and persuade him to "bank" the money that he would have been spending on it and this will give him a good start when he looks again in July.
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>> I will try and persuade him to "bank" the money that he would have been
>> spending on it and this will give him a good start when he looks again
>> in July.
Buy it now, leave it on the drive, tease him.
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He's not talking to me anymore - no more coffees for me!
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>> Oil in a diesel engined car will always be black.
I beg to differ. I've just pulled the dipstick on the Astra to check the level and the oil wasn't black. ok, it was slightly darkened, but definitely not black. Oil was changed last September and has done approx. 7,000 miles since then. I would say there was no difference in the colour of the oil from when I had a petrol engine with similar mileage covered.
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>> >> Oil in a diesel engined car will always be black.
>>
>> I beg to differ. I've just pulled the dipstick on the Astra to check the
>> level and the oil wasn't black. ok, it was slightly darkened, but definitely not black.
>> Oil was changed last September and has done approx. 7,000 miles since then. I would
>> say there was no difference in the colour of the oil from when I had
>> a petrol engine with similar mileage covered.
yours must be exceptional then.
Now I have left a load of your post in, if the whole thing goes missing AGAIN i'll know it was you.
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>> yours must be exceptional then.
>>
...nah!...it's petrol, but noisy enough to make him thinks it's a diesel......
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Mrs O'Reliant's Saxo diesel never turned the oil black till it was nearly due for a change. It was like that for the twelve years she owned the car from new. They do seem to vary a bit.
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>> Now I have left a load of your post in, if the whole thing goes missing AGAIN i'll know it was you.
You're not only Paranoid, but lazy too!
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>> >> Now I have left a load of your post in, if the whole thing
>> goes missing AGAIN i'll know it was you.
>>
>> You're not only Paranoid, but lazy too!
And you are OCD
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>> And you are OCD
Which is a recognised medical condition. What's your excuse other than being bone idle?
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>> >> And you are OCD
>>
>> Which is a recognised medical condition. What's your excuse other than being bone idle?
My excuse is that I do it to overcome the crappy shortcomings of the hierarchy of thread progression on this web site.
Plus I like to aggravate your OCD.
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Well perhaps I should start deleting posts of yours where you can't be bothered summarising the quoted message of who you're replying to. After all said and done I'm getting the blame for it anyway.
Plus, it's far easier for me to delete than it is to edit.
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Which is a recognised medical condition.
It is; one of which you have to notify DVLA in case it affects your driving.
www.gov.uk/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-and-driving
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Good job I've only got Zero's diagnosis then, and not someone who knows what they're talking about ;)
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Not sure if Over-Opinionated Shouty Bar-Stud Disorder appears in the list. I expect it's on the Required list for a white van licence.
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I wonder how OCD affects drivers?
I used to live in a street where two people with the condition lived. One of them would take ages to leave home. He had to get out of the car multiple times to check that he'd locked the front door. Returning home was a reversal of the process.
The other seemed to need to park his car exactly in the middle of any available space, even if it was long enough to accommodate a bus. One evening, I managed to get my car into one of the miniscule spaces he had left. He came storming out of the house with a face like thunder. I was expecting to get a smack, but he merely moved his car into the centre of the remaining space and went back inside.
I'm not unsympathetic - OCD is one of those medical conditions which we all seem to have traces of. One of my manifestations is arranging crockery and cutlery on a draining board so that ALL of the water runs off.
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>> I'm not unsympathetic - OCD is one of those medical conditions which we all seem
>> to have traces of. One of my manifestations is arranging crockery and cutlery on a
>> draining board so that ALL of the water runs off.
I do that.
Never struck me as OC behaviour, just as odd that nobody else seems to think it is an obvious thing to do. Or is that a definition of OCD?
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I have to have the air vents set at very specific angles in my car, and I also have to have the passenger seat exactly matching the position in terms of height, rake and reach as the driver's seat, and although you can set different temperatures for the driver or passenger sides of the car, I have to have them the same. If anyone moves any of those things when they are my passenger, I have to mentally fight with myself not to say anything and as soon as they are out of the car I have to put it "right".
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 15 Apr 16 at 13:04
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Seems bizarre to me that you wouldn't - at least when you're going to be in the seat for more than a few minutes - adjust it to make you comfortable. I always invite first-time passengers in my car to do that.
On the other hand, when I get into someone else's passenger seat and find my knees in the glovebox and my head sideways against the roof lining, ask nicely if the seat will move back and down a little.
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Oh I know it's unreasonable. I'm at peace with that.
;-)
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Why drive an automatic car (well, any car, but an automatic??) with one hand on the gear knob? Don't know either but Mrs Beest did most of the way home when she picked me up from the station last night. I knew better than to say anything - not even a tangential comment about the unlit Zafira in front.
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"Over-Opinionated Shouty Bar-Stud Disorder" ..... very good. Cant think who you mean :-)
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He was in the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy wasn't he?
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New car for my lad - advice please - No FM2R
