I know this chunk of road very well. I bike and drive it regularly, the road surface is first class...what the hell went wrong ?
www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/dashcam-video-captures-car-flip-11130773
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Texting? Of course I don't know that, but I do see people doing it all the time.
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Distracted in some way certainly; suspect she looked up to see the approaching car, panicked and over-corrected.
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She realised she was over the centreline, violently pulled left, hit the verge, and became a passenger for the rest of the journey.
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She came round the r/h (to her)bend you can see the back stepped out with oversteer (could have been lift off induced) she over corrected - a lot, the back stepped out the other way - a lot, and she was a passenger.
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>> you can see the back stepped out with oversteer
Took me several viewings, but I saw it in the end. If you watch it often enough to know where the car is going to be so you can see its very earliest movements, then you can indeed see the back is stepping out and that subsequent over correction is likely.
Given that the car looked to be going reasonably quickly and the rain on the camera car windscreen means the roads were probably slippery, I should think Zero is right.
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Some sort of top heavy faux 4x4 judging by the rear hung spare wheel. Don't suppose a proper car would have rolled so violently.
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Rubbish driver, distracted by something, and perhaps a partially deflated n/s rear tyre.
How many of us would have done that? I certainly wouldn't. You can have a hairy moment without trying to climb trees.
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you have both missed the initial oversteer.
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I suspect over-steer...knowing that bend, it can be safely taken at AC's sort of speeds. I almost suspect a dodgy low pressure rear tyre or something on the road surface or both.
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I think Z's right, looks like a tank slapper and may well have been caused by a low tyre.
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This is typical of the accidents young lads have in hot hatches when they put new tyres on the front ("cos I can power out of skids") and put the worn out tyres on the back.
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...and what about old geezers who put the new tyres on the front because they just know better than the people who designed the tyres?
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Wot the old geezers who dont oversteer off you mean? The old geezers who learned about oversteer in lairy assed rear wheel drive cars, with dunlop tyres that turned rain into ice? The days when "traction control" was a bloke in wellington boots driving a plough?
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 5 Apr 16 at 12:06
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I'm having two new front tyres on the Merc tomorrow. Back ones were done in December ( about 10,000 miles ago ) No option to have them swopped to the front ( different size )
I expect I'll be dead by Thursday. ( or maybe not )
;-)
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>> I'm having two new front tyres on the Merc tomorrow. Back ones were done in
>> December ( about 10,000 miles ago ) No option to have them swopped to the
>> front ( different size )
>>
I had the devil of a job getting Costco to fit new fronts on my C Class - it also has a staggered set-up but that didnt stop them from starting to remove the rear wheels to put them on the front. Took the intervention of the store manager and me signing a waiver.
For some time MB stated in their handbooks that if you're only buying a pair of tyres MB's ESP is so good that you might as well put the new ones on the front to get some steering benefit from them.
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That's good to know Bill. Perhaps I won't die on Thursday after all. ( in fairness I haven't ever died before in those circumstances but so many people seem to think I will that I'm beginning to worry about it )
;-))
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Mistakes can happen to anyone, even if they come along infrequently - like, y'know, buses.
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>> Mistakes can happen to anyone, even if they come along infrequently - like, y'know, buses.
>>
If you read the accident report, you will see that there was no deviation in course right up to the point of weight transfer interface.
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Eh? So you didn't make a mistake?
And as Humph is well aware, the problem is not new tyres on the front, is significantly less grippy tyres on the back. RWD cars like his and mine don't wear out the front tyres so quickly anyway, so differential wear is less of a problem.
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And as I'm sure you're aware I'm a driving God so it's not really an issue.
;-)
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>> Eh? So you didn't make a mistake?
>>
No I didn't say that. Merely refuting your assertion that I am an old duffer because I put new tyres on the front, and then try to infer it was the cause of an accident.
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Show me where I did that!
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Made the assertion about you that you're so keen to refute.
What I said was that anyone can make a mistake. When I do, I'll be pleased to have the car set up as best it can be to keep it from developing into something worse. That's what happened here: the driver overdid it on a wet road and the car - for whatever reason - couldn't save her.
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>> Made the assertion about you that you're so keen to refute.
>>
>> What I said was that anyone can make a mistake.
you did. But it was the end line of the exchange from you, so went:
>>and what about old geezers who put the new tyres on the front because they just know better >>than the people who designed the tyres?
>>Mistakes can happen to anyone, even if they come along infrequently - like, y'know, buses.
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I hate to be the one to break it to you, Z, but it's not all about you.
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It was aimed at me, specially as you have had a poke at me about tyres on the front in the past.
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Have I? Well, what do I know about what I'm thinking? Thank you for putting me straight.
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>> Have I? Well, what do I know about what I'm thinking?
Yes thats very apparent at times.
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Blimey Z. I thought I was the one who was impossible to be jokey with.
;-)
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>> Blimey Z. I thought I was the one who was impossible to be jokey with.
>>
>> ;-)
You will I was jokey in response during the exchange, however by then the clod with the big hooves was off on one.
And you my friend are ok to have a joke with unless it invokes the "illegitimate royal baby cheated out of its ascendency to a throne at Windsor" chip on your shoulder.
Even a mention of windsor, the town, is sufficient.
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Ho ho.
(See, jokey.)
Now, go and get the aircon fixed on that knackered old Jap jalopy, there's a good peasant.
;-)
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 5 Apr 16 at 16:34
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>> Ho ho.
>>
>> (See, jokey.)
I can hear the gritted teeth from here
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>> I can hear the gritted teeth from here
>>
....that's the gearbox...................
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Nah, that's smoother than the cream in a twinkie.
It's the rear suspension that's creaking from here to Woking now.
;-)
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>> you have both missed the initial oversteer.
Not me comrade. Read what I wrote.
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What do we reckon it is - a Ford Ecotec?
Could it maybe have had auto 4WD that kicked in with the first skid?
I remember throwing (deliberately) my ix35 round a corner with a slight hill in 2nd gear whilst icy. Front end went fine but then the 4wd kicked in and the back end suddenly surged out which was fine as I was expecting it, but wouldnt want it catching me unawares.
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Electronic Instability Program? Nice - but unlikely. Consider the probable first: damp surface, excessive speed, heavy-handed driver inputs and a tall body that becomes unstable more quickly. Driver error.
Incidentally, why in reports like this is it always a 'woman driver'? It's unnecessary as it will always be clear from the text whether the driver was male or female, and it carries a whiff of an attitude that female drivers are a class apart, rather than just drivers whose skill levels vary from individual to individual and from day to day.
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Daily Post has awful reporting standards....
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I was once looning around in a deserted roundabout with a works Jeep Cherokee. First proper rear wheel drive car I had driven (was in manual RWD 2x mode).
Anyway saw an enticing looking damp roundabout, attempted a drift but instead lit the inside rear tyre up very fast. Very fun and with the 2.5 diesel engine, big power :)
Sensible hat on now.
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You are all wrong, it was driver error. Otherwise known as exceeding your skill level.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 5 Apr 16 at 09:12
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One member of our little community is never wrong.
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>> One member of our little community is never wrong.
>>
Sorry, I try to ignore him. :-)
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>> >> One member of our little community is never wrong.
>> >>
>>
>> Sorry, I try to ignore him. :-)
Wish you would ignore me as well.
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"He" was totally wrong about the ELO gig though...
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>> I was once looning around in a deserted roundabout with a works Jeep Cherokee. First
>> proper rear wheel drive car I had driven (was in manual RWD 2x mode).
>>
>> Anyway saw an enticing looking damp roundabout, attempted a drift but instead lit the inside
>> rear tyre up very fast. Very fun and with the 2.5 diesel engine, big power
>> :)
>>
>> Sensible hat on now.
>>
Tried that in my MB on a wet, greasy looking roundabout late on night - buried the throttle and flicked the steering. Apart from the ESP light coming on absolutely nothing happened - the car drove around the roundabout as if it was on rails.
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>> What do we reckon it is - a Ford Ecotec?
Mk1 Honda CRV.
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Not all that spectacular though, as oversteer-offs go. With luck you will see as good or better at VSCC Shelsley Walsh.
Many years ago I went to a Formule Libre race on an Irish road circuit, everything from C-type Jaguars to Cooper Norton 500s (you know the things, short solid back axle guaranteeing oversteer even on the straight bits). That was terrific, a C-type Jaguar slid a couple of hundred yards upside down without killing the driver or even seriously injuring him... thrown out perhaps.
Also recall a green Ferrari 275LM at Brands Hatch, an early attempt at a mid-engined sports racer and intrinsic oversteerer at high speed, obviously extremely difficult to catch, indeed it looked pretty well impossible and ended up nose first in a bank some considerable way off the track.
Motor Racing Is Dangerous.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 5 Apr 16 at 14:18
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Also recall a green Ferrari 275LM at Brands Hatch, an early attempt at a mid-engined sports racer and intrinsic oversteerer at high speed, obviously extremely difficult to catch, indeed it looked pretty well impossible and ended up nose first in a bank some considerable way off the track.
Got an idea that the Ferrari 275LM is short wheelbase and effectively wide track. Such dimensions would make it very responsive to steering input and very quick to spin. Would certainly tell the men from the boys in a race situation, and only a few drivers would be capable of getting the best from it.
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>> Got an idea that the Ferrari 275LM is short wheelbase and effectively wide track
My impression au contraire was that it was long and narrow, with a lot of rear overhang and almost as much front overhang. I could easily be wrong however. It was clearly a lethal thing to drive in anger, only for the brave and preternaturally gifted.
I do remember a later generation of Ferrari sports racer, knobbly rounded thing painted maroon as I remember. Not a big success I think.
It's very cheering though that crazed Italians still want to make snorting monsters with huge V12 units in unlikely locations. Very cheering indeed.
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THat's why the best tyres always go on the rear.
Slip grip flip. Sometimes I wonder if ESP combined with driver's instinctive correction makes it worse.
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Here's another one. I wonder if the parked drivers who where probably to blame felt any guilt
www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/35984537
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>> Here's another one. I wonder if the parked drivers who where probably to blame felt
>> any guilt
The parked drivers were responsible for a tree across the road?
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No the lorry driver saw the parked car before the tree.
If they had not been there, he would have sailed over it with out hitch.
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Yes you are right. The woman should have carried on driving despite driving over the tree and ripping the wheels off. The Lorry driver should never have stopped to enquire if she was ok, as the last thing you should ever do in the Aussie outback or bush is to stop to check if someone is ok when you see potential trouble.
The tree is completely free of any blame.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 7 Apr 16 at 11:00
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The lorry driver came round the bend to be confronted with obstructions. He was travelling way too fast to stop in the road he could see ahead.
His problem.
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Highway Code.
Rule 126
Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.
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Its Australia. they dont have a highway code, and no rule 126
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>> as the last thing you should ever do in the Aussie
>> outback or bush is to stop to check if someone is ok when you see
>> potential trouble.
>>
I disagree, I was being driven by an Aussie a long way from anywhere when we came across two females stopped at the side of the road. We checked they were OK, (they were taking photos of bush flowers) and went on our way. Checking people are OK and not broken down when stopped in remote areas is normal, they could die if you don't.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 7 Apr 16 at 11:34
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I think ON may have missed the irony switches around Z's post.....
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>> I think ON may have missed the irony switches around Z's post.....
grin
Australia is a country that has more ways to kill you than any other on earth. You always check fellow travellers in the bush or outback.
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>>You always check fellow travellers in the bush
Where's BB Dave when you need him????
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.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 7 Apr 16 at 11:41
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Read my entire reply, then read what brompy said, and then go and lie down, I know irony makes your head hurt.
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Y'know what? I didn't see the tree... :-) The vid was too long for me so I skipped the first bit...
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you mean the tree went to all that effort, and you missed it?
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Smart asses just belittle themselves.
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Spectacular "off" - Runfer D'Hills
