The Reading-based band I play in have an engagement in Manchester on Sunday 10th April. The cost of us all going by coach was deemed to be too expensive, so the current plan is to get 4 volunteers to drive us in a couple of minibuses, with each driver just doing one leg of the journey.
This worries me - I don't know how much experience the volunteer drivers have of driving minibuses, but I suspect it's little to none. And it's quite a long way - about 200 miles - on the Sunday at the end of the Easter school holidays, so presumably the M6 might be pretty busy on the way back(?).
What does the panel think - would it bother you?
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Nope. A minibus is a piece of cake for most drivers. I'd want to make sure I had a decent stint at the wheel.
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No not at all, they are easy to drive.
Must, I assume, be a big band if you need two minibuses. Or just lots of kit?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 2 Mar 16 at 13:57
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Check your driving licence first too, if you passed your test after 1997 you may not be able to drive certain minibuses without an additional licence.
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Wot they said.
If you can manage to drive something like a Ford Transit, then you can easily handle a mini bus. If anything it's be even easier as there's more visibility for starters.
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>> Must, I assume, be a big band if you need two minibuses. Or just
>> lots of kit?
It's a concert(/wind/military) band - like an orchestra but without the strings (or string players!).
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As above, minibus driving is easy. Like a big car, except not quite as capable so needs bigger gaps and slower in twisty bits. If it has 17 seats, you'll need an older licence (with category D1) or a PSV licence. Only gets complicated if you are driving for reward, as the older licence won't cover that. (Plenty of internet coverage of what is what).
My brother and I have both driven minibuses full of scouts from Hertfordshire to the Lake District. Journey time, same as a car really, breaks are more to allow driver to recover sanity than anything else.
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Yes, it would worry me and I wouldn't want to travel in one of them.
Inexperienced driver in a strange vehicle, not used to the extra weight and handling plus constant distractions from passengers.....recipe for disaster IMHO.
Pat
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>> recipe for disaster IMHO.
Or, insignificant real world increase in risk?
Drive it yourself, Fl. That's what I'd do.
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>> Drive it yourself, Fl. That's what I'd do.
Well... thing is, I don't really want to do this gig for various reasons (eg. 10 hours in a minibus for 20 mins playing, max), and I suspect most of the band don't want to either. So I don't think we should be going at all, especially as even using minibuses rather than a coach we'll still have to pay for the privilege (albeit not that much, possibly £30-£40). So I'm blowed if I'm going to do the driving as well, which I don't fancy at all.
Might just refuse to go, although that would be letting the band down.
If I am going to have to do it, and pay for it, I'd like a coach please.
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 2 Mar 16 at 15:54
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Ah, different slant, then.
I still enjoy driving and would jump at the chance of a go in a minibus. Don't get to do much driving, other than the tedious commuting.
Got to drive to Birmingham for a day next week, I'm looking forward to it. Must be something wrong with me.
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>> Well... thing is, I don't really want to do this gig for various reasons (eg.
>> 10 hours in a minibus for 20 mins playing, max), and I suspect most of
>> the band don't want to either.
None of my business of course, but how come you've ended up doing it?
>> If I am going to have to do it, and pay for it, I'd like
>> a coach please.
>>
How much was a coach, somewhere in the £500+ region at a guess? So double the minibuses price?
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>> None of my business of course, but how come you've ended up doing it?
Committee decision; debate continues though...
>> How much was a coach, somewhere in the £500+ region at a guess? So double
>> the minibuses price?
No idea, but the band does have >£10k in the kitty so could cover it if the powers that be wanted to. Although there is a question of whether that would be legal - we're a charity, who are supposed to be helping bring music to the community (whether they like it or not :). Playing in a (sort of) competition in Manchester doesn't directly help that cause.
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>> Yes, it would worry me and I wouldn't want to travel in one of them.
>>
>> Inexperienced driver in a strange vehicle, not used to the extra weight and handling plus
>> constant distractions from passengers.....recipe for disaster IMHO.
+1
That is why the law changed and drivers now have to take an extra test. Several inexperienced drivers tipped them over on the motorways.
Physically driving a modern minibus isn't difficult and neither are most vehicles, but it's all the extras that inevitably come with it.
Extra weight when everyone and their kit is on board, dramatically changes the handling characteristics... then there's the distractions of everyone yapping.... then there's the steamed up windows... etc.
Not a good idea, at all.
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Thanks WP.
>> That is why the law changed and drivers now have to take an extra test.
Looking at this:
www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus
Presumably if we are being charged to cover the cost of hiring them, this falls into the needing a permit category?
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 3 Mar 16 at 08:58
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This could be the key phrase from that page
"you’re driving on a voluntary basis and the minibus is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body"
Two out of three you are probably OK on, but whether it's social purposes might be questionable (although if the alternative is business purposes I'm not sure that fits either
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 3 Mar 16 at 09:04
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At work its read as for hire and reward. Basically if you are getting paid to drive it. It's payment to the driver rather than payment for the minibus.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 3 Mar 16 at 09:17
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>> Basically if you are getting paid to drive it. It's payment to the driver rather than payment for the minibus.
I once drove 17 passengers from a photographic society, in a loaned council minibus, to a stately home around 2 hours away so they could take photos of a medieval reenactment. It was arranged through the firm I worked for; I knew none of the passengers. To get around the legal side of it I didn't get paid for the driving, but the group leader did slip me 100 notes to buy a sandwich at lunchtime :)
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>> Presumably if we are being charged to cover the cost of hiring them, this falls
>> into the needing a permit category?
>>
No. I don't think so.
Quote from the gov.uk/driving-a-minibus
"You might be able to drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats using your current car driving licence as long as there’s no payment from or on behalf of the passengers (it’s not for ‘hire or reward’)."
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>> Thanks WP.
>>
>> >> That is why the law changed and drivers now have to take an extra
>> test.
>>
>> Looking at this:
>> www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus
>>
>> Presumably if we are being charged to cover the cost of hiring them, this falls
>> into the needing a permit category?
>>
Did the laws on minibus driving change recently? Used to hire them all the time at uni and we all took turns at driving, and I'm pretty sure we didn't meet the criteria listed there.
Doubt you need a permit, it's for stuff like Ring and Ride etc and you're presumably just sharing the rental cost.
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Wow, Nanny Statism from WP. Whaddayaknow.
Get the minibus and have a laugh, Fl.
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>> Wow, Nanny Statism from WP. Whaddayaknow.
>>
>> Get the minibus and have a laugh, Fl.
>>
Good advice from someone who will not be in the crap if it goes wrong or WPs ex colleagues get involved for any reason.
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Blimey, I thought we were all grown ups on here and could handle the idea of a nice road trip, in the name of our cherished freedom and personal liberties, free form the Nanny State.
Are we all supposed to keep a lid on the mild fun in case one of WPs former colleagues has to put his doughnut box down? Where's the spirit of adventure and a bit of risk taking? We're just talking about driving a Transit from Reading to Manchester, not trying to circumnavigate the globe in a crisp packet.
Never mind.
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We're just talking about driving a Transit from Reading to Manchester, not trying to circumnavigate the globe in a crisp packet.
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>>
that made me chuckle :)
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Actually, if you read it properly neither WP or myself are suggesting that you, or anyone else shouldn't take any risk they choose to in any walk of life.
However, the fact that Focusless felt the need to ask our collective opinions, shows he was uneasy about it to begin with and our advice was aimed at him, and his situation on this occasion.
Hope that's cleared up now.
Pat
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>> Actually, if you read it properly neither WP or myself are suggesting that you, or
>> anyone else shouldn't take any risk they choose to in any walk of life.
Except that's exactly what you are doing, not that it overly bothers me, but I'm a bit surprised is all. However, my last comment was more a reply to ON.
>> Hope that's cleared up now.
It was all quite clear already.
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"Must, I assume, be a big band if you need two minibuses."
It's The Specials isn't it?
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>> It's The Specials isn't it?
Ha - if only! But good idea - I'll ask the conductor to check for any concert band arrangements of 'too much too young'. We did do a pretty mean version of Uptown Funk last year.
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If you've got a conductor you only need a bus and driver.
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Thanks for the feedback.
Ok, so they're easy to drive. But I'm not worried about driving one, I'm worried about being driven in one by someone who (unlike you and me of course) might not be a very good driver.
So I guess I'm asking whether you'd be happy to be driven 200 miles up and down the (busy) motorways by a bad driver, whether that's minibus or other vehicle.
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I suppose it depends how bad they are, do you know what they are like as drivers ?
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I'd think there'd be no more worry than driving in any vehicle with someone you hadn't driven with before.
Sit at the back and you'll be further away from an accident than if you were in a car, unless you get rammed from behind. ;>)
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Obviously you will have all the drivers named on the rental insurance, a couple of extra drivers might be a good idea. Everyone tired after a long day, watch out for a tired driver.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24757748
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 2 Mar 16 at 16:20
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You don't see so many stories headlined "Tired driver completes journey successfully" but, surprising to some, it does happen.
My own take? I'd prefer to drive myself, I'm with Al - I enjoy driving and don't get much opportunity for a decent trip these days. I rarely ever *enjoy* being driven by anyone else, anywhere - some are more tolerable than others though. I usually only put up with it if I'm likely to want a drink or four :-) I wouldn't be wild about being driven by a non-professional who I'd with no experience of the vehicle but tbh sometimes one just has to take a risk...
Watch out for groupies, don't want you appearing in the Yewtree thread do we now... :-
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It might be worth checking the insurance - I believe musicians are (or were) considered a bad risk.
Brass-players are known to get very thirsty!
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I too enjoy driving, and would prefer to do all the driving myself. Having said that for many years my daily driver was a VWTransporter... Latterly a LWB Hi Roof job which was always fully loaded aka mobile warehouse.
But, 10 hours for twenty minutes playing. I would'nt drive that long to beat Her Maj at table tennis.
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 2 Mar 16 at 21:32
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Let the train take the strain....
3.5 hrs direct from Reading to Manchester Picaddily - don't know where the compo is, but most bits of Manchester are readily accessible via the tram. Depending on times, current return tickets from £60, but you could get that down if there are children going as you could get friends and family railcard(s). It's a cross country service, a call to their PR dept may produce a reduced (or even free!) fare for a pic on the platform or something!
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>> Let the train take the strain....
As a regular train commuter I'm certainly not averse to trains, but not sure about using one to get the whole band, plus instruments (tuba?), there. It's at the Royal Northern College of Music, which is only about a mile from Piccadilly, but again, the logistics might be a challenge...
Appreciate a discount would be available but where did you get £60 from? Cheapest I can see is £78.80 for an off peak return (Sun 10th).
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 3 Mar 16 at 09:09
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I imagine kit is the problem with the train; the piccolos and cornets will be fine, but the tubas and the big bass drum might make them unpopular with fellow passengers. (This from the son of a contrabassoonist, whose family car choices for two decades were dictated by the need to fit a musical coffin in the back.)
What they need is a New Orleans-style bandwagon, so they can set up on the back and play all the way to Manchester. The instruments will be nicely warmed up in time for the competition performance and they'll have brought music to all kinds of communities on the way.
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10k in the Bank ??? Hire a coach for goodness sake !
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No trams to RNCM but plenty of buses and taxis. Nearest station is Oxford Road, it's on the same road as the college but a bit of a hike with a big instrument. Only through trains to the North and West stop there.
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Each of you take your own cars and turn it into a Top Gear challenge/race type of thing ;)
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Or the wacky races, i wonder which one focusless would be? :)
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With all those instrument cases, it's gots to be The Anthill Mob.
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Anyone would think driving was difficult reading this ! It can't be, have you met some of the people who have licences?
;-)
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Record the whole session and send the DVD via t'interweb to Manchester....go to the pub.
Cheap, sorted !
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The good news is an anonymous benefactor has offered to help pay for a coach, so that's what we're using. The bad news is that now I can't refuse to do it :)
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Why doesn't one person drive a car (or the dreaded minibus) with all the instruments while the players let the train take the strain?
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>> Why doesn't........?
>>
Cost?
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Yesterday was the day - 10 hours in a coach for a 20 mins performance!
At least it was a reasonably comfortable coach. And it shouldn't have been 10 hours - traffic wasn't that bad - but
1. coach driver didn't seem to be aware that it was Manchester Marathon day. When we got to the first road closure we set off on a scenic tour of all those posh villages where the footballers live on the south side of the city; must have added about an hour to the journey time.
2. Before leaving, I had a look at the route on google maps on my phone, and it said 3.5 hours avoiding congestion on the A556. So we set off, and spend 30 mins in congestion on the A556.
And we did break for about 50 mins in total in Norton Canes services (M6 toll). Even so, bit of a long day - set off at 7.30am (God knows why - needed to be there for 2:30) and back about 9:45pm. On the plus side I did manage to catch up on the last Night Manager, as well as 2 Stewart Lee Comedy Vehicles and one Cuckoo, on iPlayer :)
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minibuses - Alanovich
