Sons M3 had window smashed and OBD port disturbed.
Nowt taken, no other damage and most importantly he and wife not involved.
I assume they were clued up on what to do but maybe got disturbed.
So new window glass and what if anything to do to to further protect it.
Disklok is not very practical. The M3 convertible has a tiny boot.
Security film on windows ?
Google for OBD protection shows lots of hits to filter through
( Transit vans also seem to be a target ).
Obviously another risk is bodywork damage in revenge for failure to steal the car.
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Is it not insured? If it is, I'd let the insurance company worry if it's nicked or damaged... there's a limit to how much I'd do or spend over and above insurance premium to protect a bit of tin !!
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>> Google for OBD protection shows lots of hits to filter through
>> ( Transit vans also seem to be a target ).
>>
Transits? BMWs are the cars I think of when this is mentioned. It was epidemic a while ago but BMW modified the cars software so a new key couldn't be programmed from the ODB port.
Owners put stickers on the window pointing out the mod had been done.
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>> >> Google for OBD protection shows lots of hits to filter through
>>
"BMW spokesman confirmed that the upgrade will be carried out by dealers free of charge. Owners with affected cars should contact their BMW dealers or call BMW’s hotline on 0800 083 4397."
>> Owners put stickers on the window pointing out the mod had been done.
>>
In case the thief is illiterate, it may help to have a big yellow visible steering lock - it may just convince the thief that this car is a just a bit too much hassle to attempt to steal, and move on to some easier target.
BTW, apparently Thatcham blame the EU for this problem
"Thatcham, the motor insurance repair research centre, told us that the problem isn’t unique to BMW and could affect other cars. However, it laid part of the blame at EU competition regulations that insist that the car company’s hi-tech kit is made available to independent operators as well as franchised dealers."
Vote Leave!
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>> BMW and could affect other cars. However, it laid part of the blame at EU
>> competition regulations that insist that the car company’s hi-tech kit is made available to independent
>> operators as well as franchised dealers."
>>
>>
>> Vote Leave!
>>
Seems fair enough to me. I'd rather have a choice between a main s_tealership and an independent thanks.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Wed 24 Feb 16 at 10:47
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Do the maths: say it permits 1% of such cars to be stolen at a cost (to insurers but ultimately to all owners) of £40,000, the cost per car is then £400. But the presence in the market of independent operators gives owners a cheaper servicing option, and prevents main dealers from charging what they like, so they stand to make it back in lower servicing costs. Owners of less thief-magnetic cars get the benefit without the downside.
So vote In!
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>> >>
>>
>> BTW, apparently Thatcham blame the EU for this problem
>> "Thatcham, the motor insurance repair research centre, told us that the problem isn’t unique to
>> BMW and could affect other cars. However, it laid part of the blame at EU
>> competition regulations that insist that the car company’s hi-tech kit is made available to independent
>> operators as well as franchised dealers."
>>
>>
>> Vote Leave!
>>
SO BMW will produce a car specifically for the UK without a EU specified feature?
..hmmm
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>> SO BMW will produce a car specifically for the UK without a EU specified feature?
>>
>> ..hmmm
>>
Yes.
Right Hand Drive for a start.
BTW, OBD thefts have not been an issue for non-EU markets - unless you can prove otherwise.
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That whoosh noise was the point bypassing your brain. Do you imagine we'd suddenly be treated to Australian and NZ-spec M3s just because we'd left the EU? Do they offer different versions for Sweden and Norway, France and Switzerland? Besides, Ireland, Cyprus and Malta are all EU countries and all right-hand drive.
You've hit on a good example of a case where EU rulemaking would continue to affect the UK regardless of whether we got to help make the decision.
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>> That whoosh noise was the point bypassing your brain.
>>
Now, now, resorting to personal attacks shows you are losing.
I had thought the whoosh noise was all the brains here bypassing the TIC nature of the initial comment?
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The competition rule has helped keep the cost of servicing down. Can you imagine dealers offering 3 years servicing for £299 if there was no competition from independents?
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Why didn't the alarm go off when the window was smashed?
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Fast forward 10? years when the first generation of self driving cars are released complete with software bugs and features. No need to break the window, just hack it from the comfort of your bedroom, set the destination adress and wait for it to arrive in Moscow.
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>> Why didn't the alarm go off when the window was smashed?
>>
Could smashed window be the revenge for failing to steal the car?
Henry said another risk is bodywork damage in revenge for failure to steal the car.
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Thats weird they've built in such a glitch that needed sorting.
I always thought back in the day of my 5-series there were a certain amount of keys (either pre-made or allowed by the ECU) and only the dealer supplied keys would work unless the keyset and ECU were charnged together.
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When I did my night shifts in the control room, I used a very clean Mk 2 Fiesta for getting there. I used to take the steering wheel into the office. Got some funny looks but the car was still there in the morning. Easy job, no horn push and the wheel was on a hexi...not splines.
I presume that might be a tad more complicated with any modern car !
I also had a system using a really good, stout chain round the seat rails and padlocked round the steering wheel. Sprayed the lock yellow and made sure it was always in view. You'd need a ruddy big bolt cropper to shift it !
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I would suspect there are one or two critical fuses whose removal would render the car immobile, whether the car would run once the fuses were replaced is another matter.
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>> I also had a system using a really good, stout chain round the seat rails
>> and padlocked round the steering wheel. Sprayed the lock yellow and made sure it was
>> always in view. You'd need a ruddy big bolt cropper to shift it !
>>
My university house mate in Nottingham did this with his MkIV Dagenham Dustbin (same bloke who feeds drugs to rabbits in Essex as it goes). My MG Metro parked next to it got broken in to but I spotted them at it and chased them off before they could steal it.
After I wrote the Metro off, its replacement, an Orion 1.6L, was nicked with a screwdriver. Once it was recovered by the fuzz (it had been used in an armed robbery) I was called and told to pick it up from Nottingham nick. How am I going to start it I said, when there's no ignition barrel? Just bring a screwdriver yourself they said. Oh.
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Disklok is I believe the favoured preventive measure for this. Daughter has some rapid kind of Audi A6 Avant that is supposedly a thief magnet, and uses the Disklok at night.
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Info to date.
Now upgraded from attempted theft of contents to attempted theft of vehicle
It is certainly not BMWs that are targets.
LR, Audi, top performance Ford, others plus various vans.
I understand some alarms do not always respond to a smashed window.
The stout chain from floor/seat to steering wheel fails when bolt croppers snap the steering wheel rim so unless it is around the spokes it fails.
There are armored boxes ( with a key) to surround the OBII port.
Strangely not yet found one for BMWs
Some say remove the fuse, except for servicing, so no power is supplied to the OBDII socket.
Try to hide the OBII socket or get another one from a scrapyard and position it in the normal location. ( a dead buggie! if used)
Believe that in the USA a new procedure was implemented to get replacement keys.
Prove ownership etc to local dealer and a key is sent by courier from HQ to the owners home.
Seems to have killer the trade in stealing BMWs
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>> Believe that in the USA a new procedure was implemented to get replacement keys.
I asked Volvo about this and was told the only way a new key can be assigned to the car is to connect it to the dealership computer, which then connects to the Volvo factory computer over the internet. The ECU will apparently only accept new key coding from that computer.
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Seems a good idea to me.
Is it in the spirit of the EU / OBD port for all, spirit of things ?
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>> >> Believe that in the USA a new procedure was implemented to get replacement keys.
>>
>> I asked Volvo about this and was told the only way a new key can
>> be assigned to the car is to connect it to the dealership computer, which then
>> connects to the Volvo factory computer over the internet. The ECU will apparently only accept
>> new key coding from that computer.
Now, where was that post on here about the horrific price of new volvo keys............
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>>Some say remove the fuse, except for servicing, so no power is supplied to the OBDII
socket.
Presumably the ne'er-do-wells know this can be fixed by swapping the fuse from the radio. Job done; five seconds.
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>> >>Some say remove the fuse, except for servicing, so no power is supplied to the OBDII socket.
>>
>> Presumably the ne'er-do-wells know this can be fixed by swapping the fuse from the radio.
>> Job done; five seconds.
After studying conflicting diagrams the fuse # has been identified and pulled so no power on the OBD port. Glove compartment locked ( access to fuse box)
The simple DIY solution seems to a hidden switch to interrupt the power wire.
A bonus is that with no power the dash lights do not work so a reminder to switch on.
Still have to remember to power off but possibly only when parking for the night or similar.
To me it is a strange idea not having a dedicated fuse for the OBD.
Immediate reason for this action is the car has to stay overnight where it was attacked.
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>So new window glass and what if anything to do to to further protect it.
Corvettes and V8 Camaros and Mustangs were popular targets for thieves when I lived in the US.
One guy I exchanged a few emails with had made some very simple mods to improve the security of his Z28. His car would not start unless you were holding down the passenger window 'up' switch when you turned the key. The mods only interrupted the start signal so couldn't affect normal running. Operation of the window was also unaffected.
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To be honest, I wouldn't make it any harder for them. Joyriders are one thing, and they of course will just move on to the next, easier target but cars like Range Rovers, high-end BMWs and Audis are usually stolen to order. This means there is serious money involved, and where there is serious money involved, desperation and determination won't be far behind.
If they can't steal it peacefully with their eBay box of tricks, they are far more likely to come into your house looking for answers or keys. And I know someone this happened to last year. He he was awoken with a baseball bat pressed to his chin, and threatened with something unimaginable happening to his 9 year old daughter (thankfully asleep in the next room) if he didn't hand over the keys to the £80k car sat outside...
It's a car. Have it.
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My thought too, DP, and related to the thought process that put me off a Golf R last year.
Another thought - and not specific to Henry's family, to whom I wish no harm at all: given that we know these thefts occur, and the motives behind them and the methods used, isn't part of the process of deciding to buy one the question of whether you have somewhere sufficiently discreet and secure to keep it? You wouldn't leave your jewellery box in the front window, and it seems similarly unwise to leave something on the drive that is likely to attract the wrong kind of attention.
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>> You wouldn't leave
>> your jewellery box in the front window, and it seems similarly unwise to leave something
>> on the drive that is likely to attract the wrong kind of attention.
>>
For the vast majority of the population, where else would they park it?
I'm a firm believer in 'make things difficult and they'll go somewhere else'.
My sister had the people 'who endorse caravan living and drive Transits' try to steal her horse trailer. They dismantled a CCTV camera from the wall, then tried their best (unsuccessfully) to get a security cover off the towing area of the trailer.
Local Old Bill said they'd be back..... so her trailer came to my place for a week, which was a faff as to make sure it was out of sight of the road I had to reverse it down an internal narrow gravel driveway, around a sharp corner.. and the outside light down at my sheds has broken... which combined with pitch black, rain, in an unfamiliar tow car (her LWB Shogun), knowing it's a new trailer and newish truck... made it 'interesting'.
My rhodedendrons took a hit, but other than that.....
You have to make it so difficult for them that they choose an easier target.
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...>unwise to leave something on the drive that is likely to attract the wrong kind of attention. <
For the vast majority of the population, where else would they park it?
The vast majority don't have such cars, that was my point. Those that want them have to consider the attention they might attract and how to manage it.
I'm a firm believer in 'make things difficult and they'll go somewhere else'.
About the only real crime prevention option open to most of us. My point is that in some cases making things difficult might include deciding the shiny thing isn't worth the worry of who else might be admiring it. That's especially so if, as DP suggests, you can only make things difficult enough push the villains into doing something altogether nastier.
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I agree with your comments DP.
His M3 is nearer £20K rather than £80K so I would not expect it was wanted for export.
He lives in a " secure" block of flats so unless they are absolutely desperate to get the car ...
He would certainly give them the keys if asked.
I suspect it was joyrider types or maybe wanted for recycling / ringing in some way in the UK.
The aim was to make it more difficult if they came again last night as it could not be moved until this morning when the glass will be replaced.
Last edited by: henry k on Thu 25 Feb 16 at 11:48
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It is sadly but possibly predictably true to say that certain cars attract more than usual unwanted attention. Back around 1990 I had a then current ( new ) Golf Gti 16v. I lived in central Bath in a flat at the time so on street parking was my only option.
That car was broken into 3 times and actually stolen once in the space of less than a year. Other less 'visible' vehicles I left parked there were left alone.
Another downside of an obviously high performance car is the attention it receives from those with blue lights fitted to their cars. A pal was pulled over twice in a month in his Panamera but when he swapped it for a C63 ( pretty much as quick ) he was apparently much less visible.
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There's not much joy in driving an 80k car if it (1) leads to all this grief; (2) invites people to break into your house to demand the keys in such delightful fashion.
And yes, it's a sad reflection on society, but I think it's always been like that. Highwaymen anybody?
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Regardless of the car I own I've always left the keys on the kitchen table in plain sight of anyone coming into the house through.
I have no desire to see my sleep disturbed. That's why the car's insured.
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The glass was replaced with a proper BMW branded spare part today.
Son said " You would not know the difference !"
The fitter said " This is not the first time the glass has been replaced!"
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The M3 has disappeared.
I assume the scroats returned but this time no smashed glass to be seen.
A four to six week wait, in case it is found, before insurance pay out.
Son planned to enjoy it this summer and then got a " sensible" saloon or estate.
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Really sorry to hear that Henry. I feel for him. I had a ( then new ) Golf GTi which was broken into three times and stolen once within a year. You work hard, save up for something and in seconds these low life scum spoil it all.
Edit - whoops repeating myself ( again )
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 4 Jun 16 at 17:18
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There are quite a lot of very vile immoral people around.
These stories awaken longing fantasies of having a car with unbreakable glass, which would lock a would-be thief in and subject him to the full force of the emergency siren, placed under his seat.
Sounds illegal, but sort of just.
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The idea of booby traps that would severely hurt those people who break in to steal things, and who could have no possible legitimate reason for what they are doing, has an undeniable appeal.
But aside from the legality, you just know that most of the victims are going to be the houseowner himself, forgetting it is set, or worse still innocent children as with Americans' legally held defensive weaponry.
A friend of mine once had a legally held handgun, when he was in a shooting club. WHen showing it to my brother, he came very close to shooting him accidentally. The bullet lodged in a wall.
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>> showing it to my brother, he came very close to shooting him accidentally. The bullet lodged in a wall.
Firearms are intrinsically dangerous.
I was once in the centre of Ndjamena, the Chad capital, a month or so after it had been a desperate battlefield with the enemies shooting at each other with .50 calibre machine guns and sort of Stalin organ things mounted on Land Rovers and Toyota jeeps, from either side of the big central square.
I've still got a .45 calibre copper jacketed bullet, only slightly mushroomed, that I took out of a wall in Ndjamena. It came out easily, didn't need to be gouged. Would have been fired by some sort of sub-machine gun (or conceivably a .45 automatic pistol).
The Catholic cathedral, a sort of giant Nissen hut, had been plumb in the middle of the firing. There wasn't much left of it.
Ammo is tremendously expensive, but somehow it never runs short even in barefoot armies. Funny that.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 4 Jun 16 at 19:37
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Bad news. You will know and so will your son that this is unlikely to show up. At least he'll have enjoyed it to date.
The fact there was no broken glass this time might suggest they did something last time.
I'm sure your son would prefer it didn't turn up - who knows what's happened to it in the meantime.
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It will be in a shipping container, or in pieces having been dismantled for parts, possibly both.
Did it have a tracker?
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A mechanic mate of mine drove an old Sierra and it got nicked on night.
First he heard about it was by phone at 2 in the morning when a very polite policeman asked if everyone in the house could come to the front door with their hands in view. The family were met by armed police in the front garden!
Turns out the scrotes that nicked the car did a very nasty armed robbery that evening and someone got hurt.
Car was found burnt out a few days later. Scrotes were found a few weeks later still with the firearm!
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>>A mechanic mate of mine drove an old Sierra
Very easy to steal unfortunately. We had a 1991 1.8 Sapphire that we gave to a friend in 2002.
She kept it in a dark but accessible area behind the house. It had disappeared within 3 months. We'd always kept a bar type steering wheel lock on it, she didn't bother.
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>> You will know and so will your son that this is unlikely to show up.
>> At least he'll have enjoyed it to date.
>>
He has enjoyed it and is not too fussed as a pay out will save a part exchange,
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>> The fact there was no broken glass this time might suggest they did something last time
>>
I suspect they got the data required for a replacement key but got scared off.
>> I'm sure your son would prefer it didn't turn up - who knows what's happened
>> to it in the meantime.
>>
He is happy to not see it again
>>It will be in a shipping container, or in pieces having been dismantled for parts, possibly both.
My guess is parts, joy riding/ crime or cloning.
Not sure of the value but in the £20k range,
I would be surprised if it was exported
>>
>>Did it have a tracker?
No.
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>> A friend of mine once had a legally held handgun, when he was in a
>> shooting club. WHen showing it to my brother, he came very close to shooting him
>> accidentally. The bullet lodged in a wall.
Part of my CS career was spent working for the Public Trustee and responsible for valuables etc in the strongroom. Not uncommon for case officers to return from clearing houses of recently deceased with firearms both legal and otherwise. Easy to be a bit blase about such stuff until a colleague who'd done a bit of sport shooting (pistols/rifles at targets) gave us a safety lecture.
Prompted by observed dangerous behaviour.
Post Dunblane etc executors responsibility is to hand such stuff in - as we found when stuff my Uncle had retained from his RAF service was unearthed.
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>A friend of mine once had a legally held handgun, when he was in a
>shooting club. WHen showing it to my brother, he came very close to shooting him
>accidentally. The bullet lodged in a wall.
Unfit to own a handgun. He would have known the safety procedures for handling firearms and ignored rule No.1
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Assuming rule number one is don't point it at people, I suppose he could say he followed it, as it missed...from what my brother said that was more luck than management and the owner was very shocked.
He didn't tell his wife, and my brother never told our parents AFAIK.
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Have I told this story?
When I was in the services, I had a Sten* gun and a magazine of ammo to protect me and the location where I worked. The Sten was a notoriously unreliable weapon - it wouldn't fire when you wanted it to and vice versa. I had to share a small room with someone just back from Kenya who was rather jumpy. He would put the mag into the Sten and leave it like that overnight. I would be following him taking the mag out and he would put it back. I had him shifted.
Dangerous things, guns. Don't have them loaded, unless you have to and never point them at anyone, unless you want to kill them.
* It was said to be produced for 10 shillings.
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This was the Navy (posh) version. Equally unpredictable and lethal to anyone on either end of it. I agree don't have a gun loaded unless it is in use, and even when loaded they are safe if the bolt is forward on an empty chamber with the safety "on".
www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1705
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 5 Jun 16 at 08:38
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>> This was the Navy (posh) version. Equally unpredictable and lethal to anyone on either end
>> of it.
Wooden butt! My word, that is posh!
This seems to be quite a well balanced article!
tinyurl.com/zagztx8
Last edited by: Duncan on Sun 5 Jun 16 at 09:00
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From the Wiki article.
"The open bolt design combined with cheap manufacture and rudimentary safety devices also meant the weapon was prone to accidental discharges, which proved hazardous.
A simple safety could be engaged while the bolt was in the rearwards (cocked) position.
However, if a Sten with a loaded magazine, with the bolt in the closed position, was dropped or the butt was knocked against the ground, the bolt could move far enough rearward to pick up a round (but not far enough to be engaged by the trigger mechanism) and the spring pressure could be enough to chamber and fire the round.
The Mk 4 cocking handle was designed to prevent this by enabling the bolt to be locked in its forward position, thereby immobilising it. Wear and manufacturing tolerances could render these safety devices ineffective."
That would have made me nervous, not that guns don't anyway.
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Strange looking back that as an army cadet aged 16 I had access to four sten guns, two Bren guns and fifty or so assorted Lee Enfield rifles in the school armoury. Used to be responsible for their cleaning. Reckon I could still strip down a Bren gun.
Truly they were different times.
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Attempt at BMW theft via OBD port. - smokie
