www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35553865
A bargain ?
(...the number of people using the road is at an all-time high )
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Doesn't sound like a bargain - "Despite the toll road losing money each year"
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Presumably it was losing money because the income couldn't service the upkeep and the debt of the owners.
50,000 vehicles daily at £5 or so a pop (-VAT presumably) is ~£60m gross per year for 27 miles of road before costs.
How much would £2bn in the bank earn? Maybe £40m risk free (in bonds)?
How much would borrowing £2bn cost with sizeable collateral - £60+m/yr?
Glad I'm not an oligarch - not sure how the maths stands up here!
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IIRC its break-even is 80,000 cars per day and it's never been near that.
Certainly I was a conscientious objector for some time but have succumbed now unless I'm well away from peak hours.
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I,ve lived near to the M6 toll since it opened. I've never used it & don't know many that have. I cross over it regularly & have never seen much traffic on it compared to the M6. It's obvious that motorists have voted with their wallets !
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It is worth using just to get away from the variable speed cameras on the M6 in that area, though I expect someone is going to tell me that the variable limits end when the motorways split anyway!?
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I certainly use it when we go to my cousins near Rugby. I've spent far too many hours on the M6 between Hilton Park and the M5 in the past.
I'd buy it if I had Lud's sort of dosh !
I'd take the speed limit off and let bikers go free !
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>> It is worth using just to get away from the variable speed cameras on the
>> M6 in that area, though I expect someone is going to tell me that the
>> variable limits end when the motorways split anyway!?
I don't know about that...but the limits approaching the tolls on the pay road catch a lot of people out so you'll be as bad burnt as scalded in that respect.
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>>
>> Glad I'm not an oligarch - not sure how the maths stands up here!
>>
I might be tempted to buy it, close it to the public, and then have my own private bit of motorway with no speed limit.
I might sometimes invite my fellow oligarchs to come and test their own supercars.
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>> Doesn't sound like a bargain - "Despite the toll road losing money each year"
Sounds ideal for one of your investment strategies............
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If they reduced the price, more would use it. And therefore revenue would go up. Wear and tear would go up too. But if they need to make more money from an asset that already exists and has been paid for, surely more people paying a bit less than they do now could see more money generated.
What am I missing... maybe as a private road it just does not really work.
60,000 x £4 = £240k
50,000 x £5 = £250k
80,000 x £3.50 = £280k
150,000 x £2.50 = £375k
But how do you make money from your £2bn?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 12 Feb 16 at 20:17
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>> maybe as a private road it just does not really work.
>>
>>
>> 60,000 x £4 = £240k
>> 50,000 x £5 = £250k
>> 80,000 x £3.50 = £280k
>> 150,000 x £2.50 = £375k
>>
>> But how do you make money from your £2bn?
>> What am I missing...
That the use numbers will go up in line with your price band forecast.
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Used it regularly in it's early days but much less so now. Probably a year + since last tried it.
Combination of factors:
(1) TBH if you're headed for N England then it's not £4+ quicker than M1/A50/M6.
(2) The 'managed motorway' from M42 to M6/J11 keeps flowing OK most of the time.
(3) If you're in a 1.9D Berlingo that cruises best at 65mph then F Dunlop to Bescot is not really an obstacle even if you're slowed now and then.
(2) & (3) are even more relevant if headed for M54 and Salop/N Wales.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 12 Feb 16 at 21:30
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>> Used it regularly in it's early days but much less so now. Probably a year
>> + since last tried it.
I use it depending on time pressure on my schedule, and what google traffic says. On my recent trip to Bury I had loads of time so I stuck with the "old" m6. It was fine (despite spurious and clearly inaccurate overhead signs).
In past years I had to do a daily commute on the M6 round brum and up M6. The company was paying and without the toll route it would have been impossible.
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I use it a lot, no matter who is paying. Often have to travel from NW to SE and back and while it's not cheap, as a function of say, a journey into London and back in a day where there is a con charge and London rate parking charges plus the fuel for more than 300 miles the cost becomes a relatively small consideration when weighed against the benefit.
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Runfer,
Starting from your neck of the woods and going to London how much quicker is the toll than M6/A50?
Not having a snark, just interested.
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Probably saves 20 minutes which might not seem like a lot but times two in in a day which maybe started at 04.00 and finished at 22.00 ( health and safety hasn't quite filtered down to my sort of work yet ) saving 40 minutes is precious.
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I suppose I drive that way two or three times a year. I always use the toll for a respite from the congestion on the M6. In the global scheme of things it cost not much more than a coffee at motorway services. I suppose if you drive that way everyday the cost mounts up but I am always amazed that people driving vehicles costing tens of thousands of pounds rile against rile against toll and parking charges and will do anything to avoid them no matter how inconvenient.
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I agree with you on all of that CG. Not that I always, if ever these days, want to drive at Mach 3, but at least on the Toll, you can go at whatever pace suits you most of the time as opposed to being restricted by the density of traffic on the alternatives. It's just more relaxing I suppose.
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Controversially, when I'm in power, one of the things I'll introduce is a flat daily rate to use any of the motorway system, perhaps a fiver for cars and a tenner for trucks.
It could work like the con charge, if you go onto any motorway in a 24 hour period the charge kicks in. You can use any motorway for any distance after that without additional charges but the following day it all resets.
This would discourage the local hoppers on and off who I am convinced cause the congestion at pinch points and leave the motorways clear for those who really need them.
There, sorted.
Vote for me.
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I suppose it's a choice thing. Many want to have that fancy new car. Many don't want to pay charges of whatever type. The amount doesn't really matter i suppose.
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>> Probably saves 20 minutes
Can't argue with you but I'm amazed it would be quicker - I just compared the distances and there's little in it.
I rarely go down the M1 (use the M40 regularly) but I used to go across to Nottingham quite a lot when one of our daughters was at uni there and the A50 isn't a route I'd take voluntarily.
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The A50 has a particularly nasty surface that sets up an uncomfortable almost roller coaster motion in the car. Tried going faster and slower and the effect didn't change.
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A50 has some pinch points, most often a delay at the eastern end where it joins the M1 in the morning and at the Stoke end in the evening. Plus it has a horrible prefabricated concrete section that rattles your fillings out even in an otherwise wafty car.
Edit - Snap!
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 13 Feb 16 at 18:04
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In Humph's case I'd suggest it's not just about time but stress too. He has a long drive at each end of the day, and has to perform in between. That's a big - some might say absurd - ask from a stress and safety point of view, and it must be tough to put on a decent sales performance afterwards; throw in an hour each way of nose-to-tail Birmingham M6 and the purpose of the day might suffer. A few quid on a toll is trivial by comparison.
I remember chatting to NoFM about managers who see only cost ripe for cutting, and not the benefit lost with the cost cut. Premium airline seats, first-class train coaches and, yes, toll motorways have their value for people who need to work between journeys, but they're easy targets for those without vision.
Of course, there's the question of whether Humph should be regularly driving that far in a day but that's for another thread.
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>>Humph should be regularly driving that far in a day but that's for another thread.
No of course I shouldn't, by this stage in life I should be swinging in my hammock in the early morning sun under an olive tree outside my cottage in the south of France wondering only if I should go out in my little boat to do a spot of fishing today or just wander down to the cafe in the square for a bowl of moules.
Sadly, it didn't work out that way.
:-(
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M6 Toll motorway put up for sale - smokie
