Motoring Discussion > Crankcase's new electric car...	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P.	Replies: 197

New Sat 30 Jan 16 17:47   Crankcase's new electric car... - R.P.

There Crankcase, an update thread. In the last 24 hours seen a Vauxhall Ampera and a BMW I3...they're catching on. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:21   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Well. It's a todo and no mistake. Do not buy a Zoe unless you are able to quell all curiosity, or alternatively are geeky enough to want to play, because once you state there's no end to it. Lucky I'm in the geeky camp. So, as a car, I've only drive a few miles today - about 35. To drive, well, it's clearly heavy, and as the batteries are under you you feel quite high. That's quite good. It's also taller than the Vovlo by some margin, so when you get in neither of us have any problems with headroom. I'm not hugely tall though at five foot ten, but I'm sure a six footer wouldn't have any issues. Rear seat legroom isn't much. Perfectly fine for two adults and a small chimp in the middle, but I suspect when we have passengers, and we will on occasion, the front seats will have to come forward a bit. Loads of leg room in the front though, and the steering wheel has good adjustments for both height and reach, so got comfy quickly. No luxuries such as electric seats, or even an armrest (I was too tight to spring the ludicrous extra £235 for a "Luxe pack" which has the armrest and some useless bits such a cargo net for the boot). There seem to Amazon armrests for about £20 and I might see if that's an option, but I'm not that bothered. Seats themselves are firm but fine, not leather or heated (not even an option in this country), but it has various tricks up its sleeve to overcome cold car in the morning worries. Driving is not silent as you get the same road noise at speed and slipstream of course, but it feels very refined. Certainly quieter than the Volvo anyway. About ten miles on the motorway today, unsure of it all as this was first drive so didn't go faster than indicated 65 what find all the controls and so on. It was happy as Larry at that speed. Will try more another time, but apparently the car is limited to 80 odd anyway. Not really a motorway cruiser. Does have cruise and also a speed limiter, who used and ey were intuitive after a couple of miles. Noticed the buttons are on the steering wheel, but don't illuminate, so you need to know where they are in the dark. Heater worked well, full aircon with an auto mode, and all the usual stuff like heated electric mirrors and rear screen perfectly conventional. Internal mirror is not auto antigovernment, so has one of those levers you pull. Main issue is that it's like driving inside a tablet. Here's a massive screen in the middle, with a million buttons all squealing "push me, I'm fun" as you drive. Spent a long time today sitting on the drive pressing everything in sight. Built in nav is a TomTom, not used it in anger yet. I did set a destination with the voice control which allows destinations to be spoken, people to be called (call Bill Smith home, call Sally Bones mobile, and works fine for numbers as well, so call "0100 forty two double three" or whatever works too.)Nice, and similar to the Volvo but slower. Finally for now because you're bored, turns out ere are more accounts, passwords and apps to keep a chap happy for weeks. I think I activated, created and set up five different ones today, as well as the app on the phone and iPad, win not only shows you things like the state of charge and range remaining, but also lets you whip your phone out, press a button and the car starts to warm itself up ready for when you get there in a few minutes. Apparently. Not yet tested. Enough already. Tomorrow is a run I think is going to sap all the battery and I have some range anxiety already. It's cold, I have just charged to 100% and the dash is telling me I have 77 miles. The journey tomorrow is 62 so should be ok, but I don't know how accurate that number is, whether it will plummet as I drive or even increase if I'm clever and gentle with it, so it's a bit of a baptism of fire. We could take the Volvo but hey, it was bought to do this so I have to try. I have a plan b and a an c for charging if needed, although my first attempt at a public charge today failed because the raid card they sent me yields a "not on access list" error, which I hope is administrative and can be sorted in the week and not a fun ar card or charge point. Onwards and upwards. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:23   Crankcase's new electric car... - No FM2R

Thank you. Please do keep the reports going, its interesting. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:25   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

I just fixed the stupid autocorrect errors and you replied, so now I can't. It will forever be an antigovernment mirror. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:27   Crankcase's new electric car... - No FM2R

I have no sympathy. My PC has a special application which renders all embarrassing typing, spelling and grammatical errors invisible until 1.7 nanoseconds after the point at which they can no longer be corrected. Grovel to a mod. Its the only way. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:30   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

No, I shall peer at the mirror through narrowed eyes all the way tomorrow for any signs of incipient sedition. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:37   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Take a pack of AA Duracells with you tomorrow. If they can keep toy rabbits drumming for longer than other batteries they must be good... ( spare us the additional battery power rabbit jokes... ) ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 09:17   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> I just fixed the stupid autocorrect errors and you replied, so now I can't. It >> will forever be an antigovernment mirror. It is at the end of the day, a wholly appropriate term and worthy of adoption, albeit an accidental birth. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:34   Crankcase's new electric car... - ....

My daughter would love one, her name is Z...with an umlaut. I tried to call her Mercedes but with an F1 surname it was never going to happen, not in Germany anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:41   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Dunno about the car, but Crankcase could change his forum name to "Ernie"... ( the fastest milkman in the west ) ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:48   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Just seen all your name suggestions. Thank you. Some excellent ones there, but I've just been told it's to be named after the cat in Hector's House, who was called ZsaZsa. I don't know as that will stick, and I think we could do better, but then I'm just a great big cynical old Hector. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

I had a special name for my Espace. Several actually. Most of them ended with "ing" oddly enough. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:56   Crankcase's new electric car... - ....

You do know there's a new Espace Runfer ? Must be worth a shot after all, der Führer'swagon can't run forever. 150k meilen ist 250k kms. halbwegs fuer ein taxi... Last edited by: gmac on Sat 30 Jan 16 at 21:57 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:59   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Nicht while there's a hole in mein arsch... Reply to this message | Report message       5

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:59   Crankcase's new electric car... - ....

:-) badge snob ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 21:59   Crankcase's new electric car... - R.P.

What's the correct word Crankcase ?? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 22:01   Crankcase's new electric car... - No FM2R

Do you see yourself as a big Grumpy old Hector? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 22:55   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

I'm not hugely tall though at five foot ten, but I'm sure a six footer wouldn't have any issues. For the record, six feet isn't hugely tall either. Medium height, that's all. }:---) Good report, though. Keep 'em comin'. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 23:24   Crankcase's new electric car... - No FM2R

>> six feet isn't hugely tall either Long haired lanky b***** hippy. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 09:17   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>> Well. It's a todo and no mistake.have a plan b and a an c for charging if needed, although my >> first attempt at a public charge today failed because the raid card they sent me >> yields a "not on access list" error, which I hope is administrative .... That is poor pre delivery preparation, it could have stranded you miles from where you wanted to be. Just use the Volvo, rather than assorted plans for a refuel you can just use a petrol (diesel) station. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 10:01   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> Onwards With no charge card, I feel you are being a little over optimistic. Onwards it wont. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 10:25   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

I have three charge cards. None of the charging networks or cards are owned or run by the manufacturers so can't blame Renault. Turning out to be friendly community out there. One of the many apps allows you to report a problem with a charging post. I did that and another chap had the same problem with a different vehicle a few days ago. We've exchanged thoughts and it's clear it's the charging post. However, same app also tells me about successful charges too and other posts along the route worked in the last couple of days apparently if I need them. Also just tried the expensive "Granny cable" and it worked fine for three minutes before I get bored. So that's a full and comprehensive test and it's my plan A to slurp a bit of charge at our destination. See if that works. Last night I reported 77 miles on the dash. I reversed it into the garage this morning and now it says 73. This can only go well... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Jan 16 23:02   Crankcase's new electric car... - Avant

Provided it isn't too expensive to keep the Volvo, you've got an ideal situation with the Volvo being used only for long journeys: it should last forever. Not sure how the sums will work out, but I'd guess that the savings on fuel by using the Zoe should more than pay for the Volvo's running costs. I can't remember what sort of Volvo it is - probably a diesel? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 10:29   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

It's a diesel, yes, Avant. At current prices fuel is about 10 to 12p per mile. Electricity costs yesterday worked out at about 2p per mile but not really gone anywhere yet of course. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 10:12   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

Does an electric car even have a crankcase?!?! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 10:19   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> Does an electric car even have a crankcase?!?! He'll have to rename himself to commutator. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Sun 31 Jan 16 10:27   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

Please do keep the updates coming through crankcase - I'm fascinated to see how useable a wholly electric car is. In theory our second car could quite easily be all electric. The furthest it ever goes is the QA hospital in Portsmouth, which is a 45miles round trip. That does include an awful lot of 70mph dual carriageway, so not sure what effect that has on overall range - but not good I imagine! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 11:07   Crankcase's new electric car... - zippy

Love the tread Crankcase, keep the updates coming please! I think electric cars are the future but not until the range is extended - I do 25k miles a year so stopping a few times a day to recharge would not be an option. Could get one of these of course.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_extender_(vehicle) but they seem to defeat the purpose, being petrol powered! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 12:39   Crankcase's new electric car... - sherlock47

The problem of using a car in cold weather is that you need to use a heater to stay warm. I am assuming that they dont have smart heat recovery from braking - so imagine that you are using a 6kW fan heater to keep it warm inside, probably even more to get to an acceptable temperature fairly quickly. That is going to hit the range! If you Google for real life sub-zero experiences you will find estimates of 25-50 % range reduction. Being stuck for 8hrs in a motorway tailback is going to see a few dead cars and frozen people? (or should it be frozen cars and dead people?) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 12:51   Crankcase's new electric car... - sherlock47

The Zoe has a 22 kWh nominal lithium-ion battery pack so assume that when 50% discharged you may have less than 10kWhrs available to keep you warm before completely flat! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 13:18   Crankcase's new electric car... - Dog

Tis a pity EV's don't have PV's built into the roof - my solar-powered radio-controlled watch appears to keep going, even though I can't actually recall the last 'time' it saw the currant [current] bun. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 13:26   Crankcase's new electric car... - Dog

Yeah, and you could also have a couple of those little wind generators ya'll often see on camper vans etc. stuck on the rear of the roof. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 12:34   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>> The furthest it ever goes is the QA hospital in Portsmouth, which is a >> 45miles round trip. That does include an awful lot of 70mph dual carriageway, so not >> sure what effect that has on overall range - but not good I imagine! >> More speed = more wind resistance = less distance for the available fuel. It makes no difference what the fuel is. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 12:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

Yes, I get that... But what tends to kill range and economy in diesel/petrol cars is the energy used in accelerating a car from stationary in stop start traffic. That must be true for EVs too - I wonder what the optimum conditions that give the max range are? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 12:53   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Dunno, but you could ask a milkman. Reply to this message | Report message       3

New Sun 31 Jan 16 13:07   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>>I wonder what the optimum conditions that give the max range are? >> Is there no over ride that gives optimum power saving acceleration irrespective of how hard you crush the carpet? Creep speed? Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 13:08 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 13:34   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Interesting questions and about to go so no time. Briefly, Zoe has a heat pump exchanger thing, so very efficient. 1kw does the work of 4kw in another car. Car also has an eco button to do a load of things including some intelligent heat and speed management for range improvement at the cost of top speed and performance. Not tried it yet. Little power display I saw on YouTube but not yet found in the settings showed that with a cabin temperature set at 21, it was drawing 0.2kw to maintain it, which seemed impressive, but I don't recall the crucial bit about the outside temperature! I'll try to find that and report real results from mine. Solar panels, Dog. Alas, two minutes with a calculator will show you that's a non starter. This morning I set the "comfort timer" to have the car warm for about now, and it seems to be doing things.its plugged into the home charger to do that so no effect on range and you start warm and don't use any power getting the cabin up to temperature. I expect I'll go out in a minute and it will be stone cold with three miles left, but hey. Ok, adventure begins... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 13:36   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Sounds like your getting a buzz from it anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 14:31   Crankcase's new electric car... - smokie

I'm going to follow this one closely. I've been toying with the idea for over a year (since I had the charging point put in, for free) but at the moment I can't really justify the cost of changing the car at all. Which is good because improved technology will soon be along for EVs which will make them more attractive. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 14:49   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> moment I can't really justify the cost of changing the car at all. Which is >> good because improved technology will soon be along for EVs which will make them more >> attractive. There, I fixed that statement for you. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 15:13   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>> There, I fixed that statement for you. >> Yes, hydrogen fuel cells will not be in common use for some time, in fact beyond my driving lifetime. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 15:32   Crankcase's new electric car... - Focusless

>> Yes, hydrogen fuel cells will not be in common use for some time, in fact >> beyond my driving lifetime. If you've got £66k burning a hole in your back pocket... www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/mirai/89487/new-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-review Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 15:38   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

Not much use without the refueling infrastructure. A bit like rechargeable cars, too much planning and plan b, c, and d, refuling options required. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 15:42 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 16:06   Crankcase's new electric car... - zippy

>>Not much use without the refueling infrastructure. A bit like rechargeable cars, too much >>planning and plan b, c, and d, refuling options required. Surely all you need is a source of water and and electricity supply and some gubbing to do the conversion and storage. Garages could generate their own hydrogen at night on cheap rate and sell it in the day at high rate - no more delivery tankers needed or refineries - oh! Last edited by: zippy on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 16:07 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 16:15   Crankcase's new electric car... - CGNorwich

"and storage" There's your problem. You need to liquefy the stuff which needs a lot of energy. It has to be stored at -253C and under considerable pressure Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 16:21   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> "and storage" >> >> There's your problem. You need to liquefy the stuff which needs a lot of energy. >> It has to be stored at -253C and under considerable pressure Underground tank then would be ideal. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 16:28   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

As said, splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen is the easy bit if you have a personal nuclear reactor, storage of the hydrogen is the problem. Nuclear submarines dump the hydrogen and use the oxygen to maintain a breathable atmosphere. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 16:30 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 16:22   Crankcase's new electric car... - Lygonos

250bn car and taxi roadmiles in the UK each year would need about 80,000 GWh of electricity (~10GW output 24/7 which is approximately 1/4 of the total output of the National Grid). It takes about 50kWh to electrolyse 1kg of hydrogen from water (which will apparently enable a Mirai to travel around 50miles). That means 250,000 GWh, or around 80% of the entire Grid output to supply hydrogen for the same miles. I don't see hydrogen fuel cells ever being the replacement for ICE, and it's far less efficient than a pure electric vehicle for shorter distances - for long distance travel you're still better off burning heavier hydrocarbons. If they can make efficient cells for utilising alcohol or other easier to obtain fuels of course... Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 16:23 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 18:37   Crankcase's new electric car... - Bobby

But but but , has Crankcase reached his destination yet??? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 18:43   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

>> But but but , has Crankcase reached his destination yet??? >> And, perhaps as importantly, will he make it Ohm... ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 18:44   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

He's had AMP-le time to get back OHM. Edit - Could say "great minds" but I'm just going to comfort myself with the knowledge that younger people type faster... ;-) Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 18:45 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 18:50   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

I expected more resistance than that to my comment :p. C4P posters must be more down to earth than I though ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 18:58   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

If he needs to top up while he's away, can he use a switch card? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:03   Crankcase's new electric car... - Robin O'Reliant

>> If he needs to top up while he's away, can he use a switch card? >> Depends on his current location. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:04   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

Only on a spur of the moment I think... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:10   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Guess he'll need the correct pin number. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:36   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

I'm flat out of ideas now... Need a rest to recharge :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:37   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

You positive? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:50   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

I'm neutral on that... Definitely not negative... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 19:56   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

well it looks like he hasn't made the return to home ground Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 20:05   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Possibly didn't stick to the short circuit. Or stopped to pick up the ioning. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 20:21   Crankcase's new electric car... - Robin O'Reliant

Maybe the car stopped when his ECU sensed some shocking puns? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 20:33   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

If he stays missing for much longer we may have to call upon the services of Sherlock Ohms and Dr Watt-son. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 20:50   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

probably cant face the battery of jokes, he is going to need to build up resistance Last edited by: Zero on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 20:50 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 20:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Some of them have been quite acidic. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 21:09   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Oh you silly people. Laugh? I never thought I'd start. Well, adventure is over. So. 32 miles there, 76 on range thing as we left, so was hoping that if it was accurate we would therefore have an indicated 44 when we got there. Half M11, half country roads, no traffic to speak of. Toodled down at a max 62 on the motorway, which felt perfectly comfy. I thought I'd be being overtaken by the world and his dog, but in fact it was all very sedate for a Sunday afternoon, and plenty of folk happy to sit at similar speeds. All fine. Car was smooth and quiet, radio worked through the very nice audio system, plenty of oomph to that. Tomtom worked exactly as they do. It's clearly newer than the tomtom on my iPhone, with better graphics, better layout, and of course on the whacking great screen in the middle. Flipping between the cruise control and the speed limiter is a bit bizarre. On the Volvo you just push one of two button on the wheel. The Zoe has a rocker switch down by the handbrake you can't see unless for some odd reason, and I know this is going to sound peculiar, if you can imagine such a thing, the driver was on the other side! I know, bizarre idea isn't it. However, both modes work just as you expect, with 1mph increments or decreases, but no faster or bigger increments if you hold down the buttons. I tried to use the comedy glovebox. It's aptly named as I would think it will take a glove, but not two. The car manual itself, which is the size of a Ladybird book, doesn't fit. I then fell about laughing, composed myself and thought I'd put the three credit card sized charging cards in their little slightly larger wallet in there instead. No sirree, too small for that too. It's therefore now holding just four wheel nuts and the security lock wheel nut thingy you always get, and that's yer lot. But I found a big pocket on the back of the passenger seat so the manuals went in there, and the cards in a little cubby I found by the drivers side. This is all because for the French, the glovebox is on the right, and the fuse box on the left and therefore works. For us, they said "ah, ze fuse box, she shall stay on ze left, and she shall live in half ze box du glove, and les rosbifs will never, how you say, notice zat there is only space for un eclair seulement apres un bon squish. Bof!" Anyway, we arrived at destination with, instead of hoped for 44, a reading of 49. This was a good thing, as even I could see that the 32 miles back would happen with no bother. But I charged anyway with the granny cable, against all the instructions using an extension, and it worked well. We left again some hours later (ah, so that's where he was, hobnobbing with the inlaws about sixties baby clothes and bible readings, as apparently one does) with a range of 73 showing, and 42 on the screen on arrival home. On the way back fewer horses were spared, so I guess it was consistent. As other end refused to take my 80p, total fuel cost of run was perhaps 65 pence there and back. I can live with that. Now charging on the drive, so a full 70 ish miles available in the morning, which is three days commuting and a bit, so I'll charge again Wednesday night I suppose. As it's still got 55% before starting the charge now, it will cost me perhaps a quid to charge tonight, and perhaps two more on Wednesday for another full charge unless I charge for nothing at work, so three quid tops will cover my driving this week. Comfort timer set, so should be nice and warm when we get going at 7 tomorrow. Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 31 Jan 16 at 21:09 Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Sun 31 Jan 16 21:40   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

Blimey, almost gave up as the lame-pun avalanche gathered pace, but that's a gem, Cranks. Incidentally, every time I see a lost glove waiting on a wall for its owner to pass again, I get Bob Marley in my head singing, obviously, "One glove..." Perhaps he was on the Zoë design team. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 21:50   Crankcase's new electric car... - Robin O'Reliant

Nice report, Crankcase. In fact it's rather a good plug for electric cars... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 1 Feb 16 08:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>> Oh you silly people. Laugh? I never thought I'd start. >> >> Comfort timer set, so should be nice and warm when we get going at 7 >> tomorrow. >> Nice one Cranks, I will not be a convert until my geriatric long range roamings are no longer an option. You never know, one day. Keep up the good work. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 1 Feb 16 10:17   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

>> >> Flipping between the cruise control and the speed limiter is a bit bizarre. On the >> Volvo you just push one of two button on the wheel. The Zoe has a >> rocker switch down by the handbrake you can't see unless for some odd reason Must be a generic corporate bin part. My 2008 Laguna had the cruise control rocker switch down by the handbrake - the switch failed and had to be replaced. But I'm sure they make their electrical components more robust these days. Only other electric components which failed were electric window switches and the heater blower speed switch. I think that's it. I had the car a really long time though - 8 months Twitch. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 31 Jan 16 23:48   Crankcase's new electric car... - Bobby

Mods can I suggest a wee explanation comment is put at the top of this thread? The thread may appear to any non users when doing google searches and it may be helpful just to give an explanation ie car, cost, term, where bought etc? It looks like there are many, including myself, who are interested in hearing all about the day to day practicalities of an electric car. Just a thought. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 1 Feb 16 19:22   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Zoe likes commuting. Range indicator, which learns your driving style, is now 84 miles instead of the initial mid seventies. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 01:30   Crankcase's new electric car... - VxFan

With rechargeable batteries, it will take a few charge cycles put through them before they reach peak performance. I suspect that's why you're now seeing a range increase. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 07:29   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> With rechargeable batteries, it will take a few charge cycles put through them before they >> reach peak performance. Then of course, its all down hill from there. (in more ways than one) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 08:51   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

In next exciting "Do not buy a Zoe if" series, be aware that it generates a faint high pitched electric motor whine at certain speeds. It's not unpleasant, but it's there. Our tv generates a much higher frequency squeal that I can't hear unless I concentrate. Mrs complains about that one (but isn't worried enough to spend money replacing the tv). So I was concerned about the Zoe whistle once we heard it, but although she can hear it, it's only if you actually listen for it, and it's not obtrusive or unpleasant. Just there is all. I think I quite like it. There, they won't tell you that in the adverts and you might not pick it up on a test drive. How useful is that! Oh, right. Sorry. Another thing they won't tell you, and this is a bit niche, but anyway - the central screen will display photos and videos when you are stopped (and you can install literally a handful of extra apps too, like an email reader, for some bizarre reason. So I read my Gmail on it at the weekend just because I could). Anyway, every night I wait a few minutes in a carpark for Mrs C, and to date I've been watching dvds on the Volvo to fill the time. No dvd player in the Zoe, so experimented yesterday - turns out that all my library of video material, which I ripped into mp4 format for Apple devices, works fine. Just copy a file to a USB stick and the Zoe plays it. Excellent, no fannying about with re-handbraking that lot required. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 09:18   Crankcase's new electric car... - Focusless

>> So I read my Gmail on it at the weekend just because I could). How's it connecting - is that via your phone (via Bluetooth?), or does it have its own SIM or something? Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 2 Feb 16 at 09:18 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 09:39   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

It has its own sim. That also means I can interrogate it at any time (as long as it has a signal of course), for details of charge status, range, and press a button in the app to start warming/cooling it or set a time for it to do so - good stuff on the train when you're within fifteen minutes or something perhaps. There are some limitations with that, apparently, and not actually tried it yet, but that's the theory. Actually I might try and see if it will do that tonight as it sits in the works carpark. It certainly works at home and warms up ready for when we leave for work. Incidentally it's also a pussy magnet. Warm car equals little muddy pawprints all over it from neighbour's cat, I discover. No idea where the sim is, it's hidden away. Also I imagine the costs of running it are built into the price - there's no evidence of anything about it anywhere, not even in the more obscure settings screens. PS, yes, it has bluetooth and usual in car phone/audio streaming stuff via your own phone as well of course. Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 2 Feb 16 at 09:40 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 09:56   Crankcase's new electric car... - Dog

>>be aware that it generates a faint high pitched electric motor whine at certain speeds. Not 'heard' about that one before. Didn't notice it on the iOn I had for Arthur day, just as well b'cos that WOULD annoy me. I quite liked the iOn actually, which is surprising really because it's not my kind of car at all at all. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 11:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

Is it similar to the noise that trolley buses and milk floats make? :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 12:04   Crankcase's new electric car... - Dog

You do whine on sometimes O/N :) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 2 Feb 16 12:29   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

The Swiss village of Zermatt has almost all electric vehicles, many are milk floats used by the hotels to shift luggage to and from the rail station. They are fitted with cow bells to warn pedestrians of their approach. The island we were on in December had two electric fire engines, and an electric ambulance among other electric vehicles. The island was only a kilometre long by 500M wide so they would be plenty adequate. Similar to this. szeagle-golfcar.en.made-in-china.com/product/KvsmxLVUXicq/China-Electric-Mini-Fire-Engine-Eg6030f-72V-5KW-Mini-Electric-Fire-Truck-Electric-Vehicle-Electric-Car.html It is a case of what fits the job. Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 2 Feb 16 at 12:29 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 11:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

I was reading Autotrader's review of the Nissan Leaf the other day, it stated that it would cost £5 to charge the car overnight. Er, that's £45 a week, which is how much diesel I use. ??? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:19   Crankcase's new electric car... - Manatee

It's a 24kWh battery. At 90% charging efficiency, the cost of a full charge from dead flat would be c. £3.50 @ 13p per kWh or c. £1.60 @ 6p per kWh (Economy 7). For say 80 miles range that equates to 4.4p/mile or 2p/mile. I don't suppose your diesel costs per mile are that low. Even at £5 for 80 miles it would only be 6.3p so still cheaper than diesel unless you are doing 70+mpg? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:25   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

Eek, maths. *shudder* Well I do about 300 miles a week, which costs me about £45 in diesel. MPG is about 32/33 average I think, according to the car's display. Does that sound right? It's all a rough estimate, I don't keep no spreadsheet or nuffink. Er, being thick here, what's my pence per mile? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:28   Crankcase's new electric car... - Manatee

About 14.5p / mile fuel cost if you are paying £1.04 per litre for diesel. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:34   Crankcase's new electric car... - nice but dim

32/33 mpg sounds a bit naff for a diseel( I assume you're talking about the Saab). I would expect 40 average out of that barge. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:01   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

It is an (TC) auto. It's in town mostly, rarely gets over 40mph. When I do a motorway run, if I reset the display it shows about 47mpg at the end. You should see the consumption in my Mazda when it gets used for the daily school run/commute. 16L/100 miles it says I think. I don't want to convert that in case my foot falls off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:02   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

Thanks, Manatee. What's the calculation to get to 14.5p? Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 3 Feb 16 at 13:02 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:05   Crankcase's new electric car... - Lygonos

He did it the hard way working out mpgs and cost etc. The easy way is 300 miles = £45, so 100 miles = £15, which means 1 mile = 15p Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:16   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

Thanks, Lygo. Of course. But it bothers my small brain still that it is said to cost £5 a night to charge an electric car, which as WDB correctly points out is only £10 a week less than the diesel in my car with its 500 mile range. It doesn't sound worth it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 16:39   Crankcase's new electric car... - Manatee

>> Thanks, Lygo. Of course. >> >> But it bothers my small brain still that it is said to cost £5 a >> night to charge an electric car, It doesn't, not for the Leaf anyway - and of course you wouldn't generally be charging from empty. But your instinct may be right anyway. Fuel isn't the biggest cost in car ownership for most people. I could make no sense of a plug in hybrid replacement for the Outlander, basically because of the cheque I'd have to write for the thing in the first place when I already have a serviceable car. A pure electric would be no good for me, purely because of the range limitations even though I don't need that range every day. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 17:27   Crankcase's new electric car... - Lygonos

>>But it bothers my small brain still that it is said to cost £5 a night to charge an electric car It doesn't - assuming 45miles/day (roughly 300 miles/wk) and approximately 3 miles/kWh, the daily recharge would be 15kWh which is £0.90-£1.80 (£6-12 per week) depending upon payment plan. Once an electric car battery is full it stops drawing current. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:41   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

maths...shudder Can you stop shuddering long enough to manage seven fives? That should give you a £10 saving off your £45 weekly diesel consumption. And that's at today's low hydrocarbon prices. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:53   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

Oh yeah. Never my strength. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 12:55   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

I'd need to be saving way more than that and have a car which could be driven further than 70 miles in one go to switch to a milk float. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:00   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

Don't those Tesla things have a 300 mile + range, get to 60mph in under 4 seconds and be very low on BIK tax...? They're even a big hatchback aren't they...:p Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:03   Crankcase's new electric car... - Lygonos

>>Don't those Tesla things have a 300 mile + range, get to 60mph in under 4 seconds and be very low on BIK tax...? They're even a big hatchback aren't they...:p And when you're schlepping around the motorway network hawking Primark knock-offs you can recharge 200 miles of battery range in the time it takes for a cup o' coffee and a pee at a free Supercharger. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:03   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

But ostentatious though don't you think? I fear you'd have to affect a sovereign ring and a medallion or two to look the part. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:07   Crankcase's new electric car... - Lygonos

>>I fear you'd have to affect a sovereign ring and a medallion or two to look the part. You mean tinyurl.com/tesla-man ?? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:09   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Pretty much Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:10   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

Love those teslas, I'd have one tomorrow if i had the cash. I know it's a bit of an odd one but it'd be at the top of my lottery win list. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:12   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Oh dear Sooty, you know we all now have a mental image of you thanks to Lygonos' link ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:15   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Will.I.Am has one I think. Might be wrong. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:24   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

I don't see them as flash at all, if anything they're a bit geeky. Don't worry I'm not some sort of 70s throw back. ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:27   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Ironic though isn't it that anyone who could afford a Tesla would also almost certainly be able to afford the fuel for a petrol supercar. Environmental issues aside of course. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 13:31   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

Yes a bit of a lottery winners car. But i think a new to the market car was always going to be expensive. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:39   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

I'd have one tomorrow. I was alongside one at a long red light this morning and thought it looked great. Practical and civilized too. But NoFM can tell you what a medallion-laden, chest-wigged showoff I am. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:48   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

Well I can't say I blame you, you do have to fit in in Henley. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:49   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

Indeed. Imagine the alternative! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:54   Crankcase's new electric car... - No FM2R

It was the sheepskin waistcoat that set it all off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:15   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

Ah yes, a Beest in sheep's clothing, and never mind that it was 30°C that day! I must have forgotten to pack my yellow cords and deck shoes. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:32   Crankcase's new electric car... - Duncan

>> I was reading Autotrader's review of the Nissan Leaf the other day, it stated that >> it would cost £5 to charge the car overnight. Er, that's £45 a week, which >> is how much diesel I use. >> >> ??? >> How is £5 a night equal to £45 a week? ??? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:34   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

It's all right, Duncan, WDB has already corrected my atrocious, nursey school mathematics skills and pointed out that it's £35. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 14:40   Crankcase's new electric car... - Duncan

>> How is £5 a night equal to £45 a week? >> >> ??? >> Saw Will's comment too late and missed the edit. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:26   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> >> How is £5 a night equal to £45 a week? >> >> >> >> ??? >> >> >> >> Saw Will's comment too late and missed the edit. Always a bit slow, the aged. Can I suggest a forum handle change? Corporal Jones perhaps? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:41   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Funny that, I've thought of you Z as "Walker", Rattle as "Pike" and RP as "Wilson" before now... I guess I'd have to be "Fraser"? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 17:47   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

Does that mean Pat can be Mrs Pike? With Roger as Godfrey, VF as Hodges. We just need a Captain Mainwaring. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 18:04   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Lud Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 18:05   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

No, it's obvious really: educated working class, tubby, shouty - anyone we know? Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 3 Feb 16 at 18:06 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 3 Feb 16 18:10   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Yeah, come to think... Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:05   Crankcase's new electric car... - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> >> How is £5 a night equal to £45 a week? >> >> ??? >> Left wing maths. You can choose any answer you like. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:39   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

If it helps, my figures thus far (yes, just a few days) range from 2.4-2.9p per mile (using my own electricity) to 0p per mile (when I got free electricity at the inlaws). The Volvo is from 10 to 12p per mile at current very low prices. So far I have done about 200 miles (wow), so fuel costs - Zoe, 200 times roughly 2.75 pence = £5.50 Volvo, 200 times roughly 11 pence = £22 I am at about £16.50 saved so far since last Saturday on fuel costs. I reckon over a week it will be about £20ish, or £80ish a month saving. Diesel is cheap. It may not stay that way for months. My electricity tariff is locked until next November. Man maths of course - the darn car costs more than the fuel savings, but at least they pay for half of it! I'd save a lot more by selling the Volvo too, as I wouldn't have £185 tax, £50 MOT, perhaps £100 a month depreciation and £400 for the next service to pay for - another £150 a month odd, at which point I really am saving money. If I could be fannied to sit for half an hour at Cambridge Services for a charge, then the electricity would be free. Or for two hours at the various Cambridge Park and Ride facilities, then it would be free as well. At these prices I'm not going to do that other than for novelty, although I can imagine getting a free charge while we use the Park and Ride to go into town of a Saturday or something maybe. Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 3 Feb 16 at 15:41 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:40   Crankcase's new electric car... - rtj70

For Alanovic's example/comparison, he says he does 300 miles per week in the Saab. Assuming you can really get 80 miles in the Leaf on a full charge (cost £5) and 80 miles is enough for your commute... that's only 3.75 full charges. So cost would be 3.75 x £5 so £18.75. Call it £20. So diesel is £25/week more than the Leaf to 'fuel' so over 3 years, that makes the saving £3,900. Road tax will be free so that's at least £300 or more extra in your pocket so lets call it £4,200. But how many of us could live with a range of 80 miles. Not for a main car. If you commuted into central London, the savings would be even bigger of course. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 15:58   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

It should be noted with boring you all into submission that 80 miles is pretty conservative these days. The older 24Kwh battery Leafs would do 80, driven carefully, in winter conditions - in the summer with careful driving perhaps 10 ish more without too much bother. The newer 30Kwh Leafs are already reporting 90-100 miles real range winter; they will probably stretch 110-120 ish in summer. Mine is showing ranges of mid eighties, but all the calculation I'm doing seem to imply that in fact that's a little conservative. Not run it flat to find out yet. And there are lots of reports of 100-115 and more real range for these cars once the temperature gets back around 20 C. Yet another new Leaf is to be turned over to us next year, with a yet bigger battery as well. Zoe 2 already being touted as well. It's all changing very fast. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 16:06   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

I'd not have the nerve to try to push it to its limit. I can't even really concentrate when my diesel is down to a 1/4 tank and that equates to at least 125 miles of range left. The thought of rolling silently to a halt at night in the fast lane of the M6 in the rain would freak me out. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 16:22   Crankcase's new electric car... - rtj70

I wouldn't push an electric car to the limit of it's range either. Worst case scenario in a diesel/petrol is you've got to get to a filling station to get some and bring it back to the car. Worst case scenario for the electric car is you need to get it to a plug socket. The hybrids that are starting to appear look sort of appealing. The Passat GTE could work out a cheap company car if the lease/rental costs are not too high. The last time I looked, the plugin Prius was cheaper to have than the non-plugin variety because of the lower BIK. The new 3 series 330e hybrid looks like it could be popular too. These might not go as far as 80 miles on electric power alone but will do say 25 miles. Plus whatever you get from the petrol. Combine the two and the range is probably 600 on a tank. If I had one I probably wouldn't plug it in so it would be lugging heavy batteries around and reducing mpg. And have a smaller book. Lower BIK might make it an option. When I have the time I'll have to nip into the local Tesla dealer to have a go :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 16:26   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> The thought of rolling silently to a halt at night in the fast lane of >> the M6 in the rain would freak me out. It would be anything but silent. Lots of warning bongs within the car, screech of tyres, car horns, possibly the tinkle of broken glass, - you get the idea Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 16:31   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Absolutely ! I confess to having limped a broken down Cortina from lane 3 to the hard shoulder on the starter motor way back when. That wasn't fun but at least it was possible. Not sure if any modern car would tolerate that now mind you. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 17:21   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

I can't even really concentrate when my diesel is down to a 1/4 tank and that equates to at least 125 miles of range left. A quarter? I wouldn't even think about putting some petrol in until the fuel light had been on for a while. A quarter, where's the fun in that? ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 17:27   Crankcase's new electric car... - Runfer D'Hills

Used to live a very long way from a petrol station, old habits etc. Plus, I try to avoid motorway fuel if possible, even when I'm not personally paying for it. By and large, during the week anyway, I just top up most nights, usually takes about half a tank or so. Saves having to think about it when I'm out working. Stock up on wine gums too. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 17:49   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

> By and large, during the week anyway, I just top up most nights, usually takes about half a tank or so. Saves having to think about it when I'm out working. If i did that sort of mileage I'd probably do the same. Mind you i only fill up my own car about once a month now. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 18:43   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

I'm not a fan of petrol stations, so in order to minimise the number of visits I only ever think about going when the light comes on... From 4 and a bit years of experience I can safely say that the LEC will still be going when the needle is right at the bottom - a good 100 miles on the amber light. It refuses to give you the the range then mind you!! Only did that once - on a return from the Eurotunnel, where the light came on shortly after exiting and I was determined to make it to the shell station at Fontwell. Otherwise 40 or 50 miles is my limit on the amber... Even then, that means I'm putting in 55 litres, so there's a gallon or do left to go. If I filled it at the quarter mark I reckon I'd get around 48 litres in... So I *think* I'm saving roughly one in eight trips to petrol station...maybe 7 or 8 a year? That's got to be over an hour saved ;) I wonder if I'll take the same approach with the new car; clearly running out of battery when there's an engine a fuel tank is less of an issue... But, it does give the ability to push the fuel to the absolute limit knowing that if the worst comes to the worst there'll be some battery power to take me to a petrol station ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 3 Feb 16 16:23   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> yet bigger battery as well. Zoe 2 already being touted as well. It's all changing >> very fast. Pity its not very fast charging. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 09:28   Crankcase's new electric car... - Bobby

It's all kicking off in Glasgow between the pure electric vehicles and those cheeky whippersnapper hybrids....... ELECTRIC car owners will no longer be allowed to park for free in council charging bays after Glasgow transport chiefs said some drivers were hogging the spaces. The city currently has 65 electric vehicle charging points with another 14 in the pipeline, but councillors were told that the surge in electric and hybrid car ownership means that demand for the spaces is now outstripping supply. Members of Glasgow City Council’s Sustainability and the Environment Committee have voted to impose a two-hour time limit for using in the bays at a cost of £3 per hour - the same rate levied on petrol and diesel cars parking anywhere in the city centre. Electricity at the charging points will continue to be supplied free-of-charge and the shake-up will only apply to on-street parking bays, not those located in off-street or multi-storeys car parks operated by council subsidiary, City Parking. However, a spokesman for the arms-length organisation said it would be “watching with great interest” and would “consider our position in due course”. The changes are expected to come into force by the end of this summer. Papers submitted to the committee stated that the lack of parking fees or time-limits at present meant that “the bays are used for extended periods by one vehicle thereby limiting availability and inhibiting other drivers who require to charge their electric vehicle”. The new policy would therefore “[maximise] the availability of charge points to electric vehicle drivers” and keep Glasgow “at the forefront of low-carbon transport infrastructure”. However, electric vehicle owners have slammed the plan and blamed hybrid car owners for causing the problem by “abusing” the free parking on offer. Adrian Loening, a member and former chairman of the Electric Vehicles Association Scotland, said: “The issue is that people have been abusing the free parking because if you buy hybrid you can drive into the city, plug it in, leave it in a car parking bay all day and drive away without paying a penny even though you weren’t really charging your vehicle or you didn’t need to be charging it.” Mr Loening said he had heard anecdotes of some hybrid car owners parking in the same spot every day for around eight hours while they went to work. He said: “We’ve had discussions with Transport Scotland and Glasgow City Council about this and we’ve said ‘if you’re going to change it, what you should do is keep the same rules for pure electric vehicles but don’t allow the hybrids to use them for free’. We were told the problem with that is that it then takes the parking warden to understand which vehicle is which.” Mr Loening added that the time limit would be “penalising for anyone in a pure electric car” which typically takes up to four hours to fully charge. Karen Bain, an electric car owner who regularly travels from Uplawmoor in East Renfrewshire into Glasgow, said the rules would alienate EV drivers. She said: “I’m absolutely disgusted. They’re just going to discourage people from buying electric vehicles if they go down this line. "The way of resolving the problem in the city centre is banning the hybrids from using the charging bays and setting a limit of four hours." She added that if the council were removing one incentive they should replace it with another, such as allowing electric vehicles to use bus lanes for free - a common policy in Norway which is also set to be introduced some English towns and cities, including Milton Keynes and Derby. Motorists in Aberdeen, Edinburgh and South Lanarkshire already pay to use charging bays, while Moray Council charges for parking plus electricity. A spokeswoman for Glasgow city council said: “This is to allow more electric vehicles to access charging points in the city and to stop bays being used for extending periods by just one vehicle.” She added that it would be a "practical impossibility" to charge hybrid cars but not electric vehicles, and stressed that car owners were not supposed to use the bays unless they needed to charge their battery. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 09:55   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

It had to come, as soon as there is a free option people will abuse it. The reassessment of all Motability car users is another example, I read recently that about 50% of the cars are being withdrawn. Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 4 Feb 16 at 09:55 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:11   Crankcase's new electric car... - Bromptonaut

>> It had to come, as soon as there is a free option people will abuse >> it. The reassessment of all Motability car users is another example, I read recently that >> about 50% of the cars are being withdrawn. That may be an apples/pears comparison ON. People on Disability Living Allowance are being re-assessed for a new benefit, Personal Independence Payment. Either, if awarded at the Higher Rate for Mobility, allow the customer to access Motability. The criteria though are different. Plenty of people who genuinely struggle to walk don't struggle sufficiently to meet the new criteria. That doesn't, whatever the headlines say, make them frauds. There is a separate issue where very real fraud, sometimes with collusion of garages, was taking place. It was reported to be very prevalent in localised areas - Northern Ireland was one. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 09:59   Crankcase's new electric car... - Bromptonaut

It often helps to try an compartmentalise problems like this: (1) Selfish gits are hogging the bays. (2) Should hybrids be permitted to use them at all; if so should conditions differ from those for pure electrics. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:23   Crankcase's new electric car... - PeterS

It's almost inevitable that if parking in the charging bays is free then they'd be misused. I can't see any reason why someone who's bought an electric car (or a plug-in hybrid for that matter) should get or expect free parking, and simply charging might alleviate the problem When it comes to free electricity as well, I can see that encouraging the use of LEVs in cities and towns could be seen as desirable, and providing free power helps. Though, if the cost for the bay was higher per hour, to cover the power cost (or an approximation of it), then those who stated longer than necessary to charge would be penalised! Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:20   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> She said: “I’m absolutely disgusted. They’re just going to discourage people from buying electric vehicles >> if they go down this line. Why on earth do Electric Car owners think they have the right to free electricity AND free parking? Ok Electric charging spaces should be banned for EV hybrids (and given a FPN) because they dont NEED them, Pure EVs do, but no way should they be free. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 4 Feb 16 at 10:21 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:25   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

If you've bought a car on the promise of getting the free electrickery and parking, and those factors formed part of your decision to buy, you may well feel entitled. It's a bit like the VED changes which were bought in by Squiffy Brown, which punished people who had already bought a car over the new high VED threshold. They had to fudge it with the 23rd March 2006 thing. Retrospective changes which put people out of pocket are not usually well received. I'm not saying it's right, just Devil's Advocate mode. It's a reasonable point though. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:42   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> If you've bought a car on the promise of getting the free electrickery and parking, >> and those factors formed part of your decision to buy, you may well feel entitled. I dont think any such promise was made, certainly not on a national basis. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:45   Crankcase's new electric car... - Alanovich

Perhaps not, but I'm sure it has been part of a lot of purchase decisions in spite of that. And when it gets withdrawn, people will wail. They are not entirely wrong. Nor entirely right. I wonder how many people have been tempted to look at an EV and decided not to on the basis that free recharges and parking might get withdrawn at some undefined point in the future? Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:25   Crankcase's new electric car... - VxFan

>> Members of Glasgow City Council’s Sustainability and the Environment Committee have voted to impose a two-hour time limit for using in the bays at a cost of £3 per hour - the same rate levied on petrol and diesel cars parking anywhere in the city centre. Now there's a novelty. Electric cars being charged ;) Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Thu 4 Feb 16 10:51   Crankcase's new electric car... - nice but dim

If work install a charge point (we are an electrical installation and have undertaken Tesla supercharger installs). I would very much consider an EV as my daily round trip is 50 miles. The odd trip to our Surrey office (200 miles away) would have be considered as part of the whole exercise. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 4 Feb 16 11:22   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Well, this is all as it should be. Absolutely no reason why EVs or hybrids should be treated differently when it comes to paying for parking in my view, and yes, it will discourage the "I'll park it here for nine hours because I just can" drivers, of which there are some. As to free electricity, that has a few dimensions. How do you cost it? Do you do it by time? Unfair, some cars charge faster than others. Ok, do you do it by electricity used? Difficult, when the actual electricity cost is likely to be so low, so anything major on top is seen as profiteering and drivers won't use your points. No commercial viability for a network there. Making the costs high - there are some places round me where its a flat £5, £8 or even £15 to get perhaps £1.50 worth of juice - means drivers simply don't use them. Making the costs low - Chargemaster do a £1.20 per charge plus a few pence for the electricity used might be a way to go, but they've only just started that and many are refusing to use them as well. Putting in a subscription model - so much a month, you get reduced price charging at the posts. Chargemaster have launched that too, and lots still won't do it because they are "not paying £100 a year in case I need £2 of electricity once". Making the costs anything other than free in fact - now you need payment processing, or a camera monitoring system, or a ticket machine, or..or..or.. and unfortunately the obvious contactless payment/Applepay ideas don't really work, because the chargers were put in with public money, which has the condition that usage is monitored, so you HAVE to use a special RFID card. And they can't identify who you are from the contactless card. We're still waiting for someone to take that one on somehow. Making it all lovely and free - great, now people buy EV's and you hit your green and pollution targets, and get government grants for doing so, but everybody hogs the chargers because they are free and you're back to where we started. Sure it could all be sorted, and will be, but it's a right old mess at the minute. Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 4 Feb 16 at 11:24 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 14:42   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Lest anyone think no news is bad news, all well. Commuting lovely, little runs out working fine. Just hopped over to Anglesey Abbey (Cambs, not Wales) this morning, 35 mile round trip, no issues at all. Negotiated with work and told them not to bother putting in a charger just for me, which they were planning on. If they had it would have been about £1500 to them. But I'm happy to use the standard three pin socket that happens to be right by my parking place, which is handy. Agreed to pay them £50, which buys me about 4000 miles. Seems fair enough to me and no potential tax implications that way, as it's all a little bit of a grey area at the minute so that seemed easiest on everyone. Had issues with local chargers in the P&R sites, played detective, eventually found the company who grudgingly admitted they might be something to do with them. Anyway, managed at last to slurp a few free miles there the other night so that was a plus. Took the Volvo for a longer run yesterday, partly because it hadn't been started in a fortnight and I thought it needed it, and also because I wasn't quite sure of the distance. Turned out that the journey was 75 miles in total, and the Renault was offering 82 miles, so would have been ok if we had taken it. I'm finding it be either spot on or a bit conservative, but not yet significantly over optimistic in its prediction. Which is reassuring. Put £25 of diesel in the Volvo and thought that would have been 2000 miles in the Zoe! Ow. Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 14 Feb 16 at 14:43 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sun 14 Feb 16 14:49   Crankcase's new electric car... - Focusless

>> If they had it would have been about £1500 >> ... >> Agreed to pay them £50 Very good of you Cc, but I would have thought they might have overlooked the latter given the former? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:22   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

>> Very good of you Cc, but I would have thought they might have overlooked the >> latter given the former? Best as I can tell, if your employer lets you use electricity at work then it's either A benefit in kind, although tiny. So fiddle about with tax office etc. A "trivial benefit", so no tax. But the employer has to notify the tax office and have that approved, so more fiddle Or you can pay the employer the straight cost, and if they can't actually meter it directly, a sensible figure can be agreed and the tax office doesn't need to get involved. So I picked option three on grounds of cost and hassle, either to me or my employer. Electricity, however, is very specifically not, as far as the tax man is concerned, a fuel, so none of that "fuel rated mileage bik benefit calculation per mile unless it's personal for the first twenty seven and the next three of them are business on a Tuesday as long as the receipts are in triplicate in a very small square" stuff is relevant, even if you have an electric company car, assuming there is such a thing. I expect there are some company Teslas about. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:07   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

Interesting, keep the reports coming in. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:22   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

I am not sure I like the concept of a car which dictates when I can use it or how far it will go. The fuel may be cheaper but the lifetime costs have not been mentioned. Although I pre plan long journeys with fuel stops for both myself and the car, (No MSAs), having an unreliable infrastructure and several plans for recharging is not for me. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:25   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Fair enough, ON. I'm not sure I like the concept of, say, a cruise, with a fixed destination and a group of seasick passengers, so I've found the best method for me is not to go on one... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:30   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

I am not sure I like the concept of a car which dictates when I can use it or how far it will go. All cars do that, when the fuel source is empty, it stops. They'll never replace cars for everyone, everywhere but they are on the up. I'd have one if circumstances were different. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:32   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

. Agreed to pay them £50, which >> buys me about 4000 miles. Is that per year? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 15:35   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

>> Is that per year? That's about half my annual commute. Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 14 Feb 16 at 15:35 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 16:15   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

Sorry should have been clearer, is the £50 for the year? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 14 Feb 16 16:21   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Yes, one off payment. But I might do another £50 in six months if my conscience will let me. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 08:34   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

The next step in car use. Not quite there but you can buy a hydrogen powered Hyundai ix35 or a Honda Clarity, if you can find somewhere to refuel them. news.sky.com/story/1643212/british-firm-unveils-prototype-hydrogen-car Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 08:59   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Hydrogen? Bah. Dead end. Impossible to discuss all the details over the net, ON, it all takes too long. I'd love to come and chat with you in person about it all, over a meal, and I'm sure it would be a healthy discussion. I'd tell you all about how range isn't important and you don't need all these recharging stations, but unfortunately you're too far away and my car won't get there. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 09:38   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

I thought you had a plan "B" Volvo. :-) I am sure an electric car is well suited to some of your journeys. Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 17 Feb 16 at 09:42 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 09:42   Crankcase's new electric car... - DP

A good friend of mine is testing a Leaf at the moment. Here's the feedback on social media the other night: "Very possibly the most stressful drive home tonight. Ever! Driving an employer name removed branded Nissan Leaf at 52mph on the motorway was not a fun experience. No heating, no radio, and only just made the 54 miles from office to home. Started out from the office with 95 mile range but it would only have managed 60 tops. Got to do it the other way tomorrow morning. Hopefully it'll be fully charged before leaving for the office. On the upside, the tree display showed that I saved 3 ½ trees last night." This isn't the very latest model. He's going to try one of those next week, which is supposed to have a much better range. It is interesting though that just as IC powered cars don't get close to their claimed MPG in the real world, neither do electric cars seem to get close to their claimed range. Last edited by: DP on Wed 17 Feb 16 at 09:44 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 10:56   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

Interesting. For a perhaps more realistic view, here some real owner experiences. Some are indeed saying about 70 tops in a Leaf, some are saying a bit more, one or two with old knackered ones are saying less. speakev.com/threads/72-mile-commute.14796/ One of the reasons I picked the Zoe, apart from price, is that is has a better range than the Leaf, at least on paper. Dunno yet, not got anywhere near running out. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 11:16   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

Haven't checked but there's a Leaf or two near where I work, and one Zoe I see charging on a driveway, and the Leaf looks significantly bigger and - presumably - heavier. That must make a difference to potential range. There must also be an element of driving style in play here: some drivers can't maintain a steady, smooth - not constant in the cruise control sense - speed but are forever accelerating and braking. That must be the enemy of range optimization - well, in any car, but it's more cruelly exposed by an electric one that's dependent on getting home to charge. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 11:26   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

>> Haven't checked but there's a Leaf or two near where I work, and one Zoe >> I see charging on a driveway, and the Leaf looks significantly bigger and - presumably >> - heavier. That must make a difference to potential range. It's the battery pack size that mostly affects range of course. Old Leaf - nominally 24kw, Zoe 22kw, new just out Leaf 30kw. Tesla of course is way bigger and heavier than either, with either a 60kw or 85kw battery, hence range in hundreds of miles (at only about triple the price). Some of the PHEVS have batteries down as low as 7kw, and do perhaps 20 miles on electricity - but then swap seamlessly to a standard engine. Depending on your use case that might well work out just fine. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 23:12   Crankcase's new electric car... - Lygonos

>>Tesla of course is way bigger and heavier than either, with either a 60kw or 85kw battery Now the choice is 70 or 90 kWh. Still ££££ of course. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 07:55   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

>> Still ££££ of course. >> Worryingly, every time I go the car porn page that is Tesla's website, and pick the cheapest one, the finance numbers on the right seem to be a bit more attractive to me. Last time I looked, if you ignore that deposit because after all what's a few grand deposit, ahem, then it was sitting at sub £500 a month. For four years. Too much...isn't it? Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 08:16   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>>then it was sitting at sub £500 a month. For four years. >> >> Too much...isn't it? >> >> Hmmm, my state pension would cover that. A government funded car, interesting concept. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 08:23   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

You could have a fun tour between your two nearest hydrogen fuel stations in it. Oh wait, even a Tesla won't get you that far. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 08:27   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>> You could have a fun tour between your two nearest hydrogen fuel stations in it. >> Oh wait, even a Tesla won't get you that far. >> >> It has taken 100 ish years for electric cars to become semi viable, the estimate is 20 years for hydrogen power. All we need then is the power stations to run the production plants. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 08:33   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

, the estimate >> is 200 years for hydrogen power. All we need then is the power stations to >> run the production plants. :-) >> You missed a nought off the end ;) Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 10:00   Crankcase's new electric car... - Focusless

>> the estimate is 20 years for hydrogen power Caught the tail end of the BBC 6pm news yesterday as they were doing a story on a new British hydrogen powered car - it's being developed in Wales: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35595240 News item (starts at 22:30, only available until 1330 today): www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b070j6l4/bbc-news-at-six-17022016 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 08:30   Crankcase's new electric car... - Zero

>> >> Hmmm, my state pension would cover that. A government funded car, interesting concept. :-) Yeah go for it, fantastic idea - the range is not quite far enough for you to get back down south Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 09:41   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

>> Yeah go for it, fantastic idea - the range is not quite far enough for >> you to get back down south >> Why would anyone want to retire to the South East? I thought most sensible people moved out for a more relaxed lifestyle. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 17 Feb 16 10:19   Crankcase's new electric car... - VxFan

>> if you can find somewhere to refuel them. IIRC, …James May said on his tv show "Cars Of The People" the other evening there are only 4 places in the UK. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 10:28   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

Refuling your electric car may not be easy even if the infrastructure is in place. www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/motorist-complains-council-vehicles-are-hogging-all-dundee-s-charging-points-1.924855 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 12:33   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

In the spirit of warts and all disclosure, I should say I agree with you, ON. I took one run out to our local Ecotricity charging point at Cambridge Services just to see how it all worked and so on, as an experiment. When I got there the two spaces were already being used, at which point if I'd actually needed to charge I'd have had to wait until they finished. That could have been anything from "just going mate" to "just arrived mate, I'll be an hour" to "no driver in sight, could be here for an entirely unknown time unless I can track them down". I just drove home as it wasn't important. On the flip side, the much slower chargers at my local P&R I've looked at once or twice and indeed used since getting the car - never seen another car at any of the four, either recently or indeed ever in the past. That might be partly because they are being reported as not working of course, although I did get one to work for me last week ok. None of that has bothered me so far as all my charging is either on my drive, the in-laws drive, or in the works carpark (where it's charging right now in fact). Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 14:01   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

It must make it a pain to plan car charging if you can not guarantee that a charging point is working, available, or has someone using it for parking. It must limit you to home or work (?) for a guaranteed charge. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 14:23   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

All good points and ones that will hopefully improve as time goes by. You can mitigate it somewhat by using apps that tell you if a point is busy/working or not before you get there, and points are being doubled up in various locations which increases your chances. But yes, it's a bit of an Adventure to go roaming, they say. Not roamed yet. There's talk about all sorts of other things that could be done, such as tweaking parking/electricity payment levels, booking of spaces, only being allowed to charge for 30 mins maximum (even in my car that's about 30-40 miles, enough to get you going to the next one) installation of petrol forecourt sized spaces with dozens of points - all this stuff is being kicked about and tried in various ways. It's still a nascent market. I think you have to be up for all that, and be motivated by "green" and/or the financial incentives to want to consider it. Or you plan (as I do) to have a backup car at the moment, or live next to a car rental office. Unless you never do anything by car except home/office/shops/local family, which is a lot of people, where mathematically, let lot=any number that favours/disfavours the argument. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 14:50   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

I believe that Dundee council are going to apply their standard three hour parking to charging bays which are unrestricted at the moment, how they are going to enforce it is a different matter. Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 18 Feb 16 at 14:53 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 15:52   Crankcase's new electric car... - Ted

I know diddly-squat about the inner workings of fully electrische cars, but........could the range be extended in emergency by having a spare, charged battery and a set of decent leads on board. I've driven quite a few cars with a battery in the passenger footwell and the leads through the window and into the bonnet. The earlier hybrid Yarises we had on the fleet had a battery jump start point under the back seat and the Prius had one under the bonnet. I've sorted out flat battery problems on quite a few of these models. Or is it a different brand of electricity ? Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 18 Feb 16 16:12   Crankcase's new electric car... - Crankcase

>>Or is it a different brand of electricity ? Same brand, somewhat..er..larger batteries. As in half a ton, under the entire floor. Carry a spare somewhere and the motor probably wouldn't move the car! Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 12:38   Crankcase's new electric car... - Bobby

There is a long running post on Facebook about The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Basically one of these auto ads but to be fair to Mitsubishi, they are responding to all comments. The ad is for used versions of this car so I am guessing there is a glut out there. Lots of negative comments about their claimed mpg of well into 3 figures, Apparently this is based on the fact that the car can run on electricity for 30 miles and the European standard regs allow the majority of the test to be done on electricity. When running on fuel the mpg drops to nearer 30s in some cases. Mitsubishi are answering a lot of comments saying that the car has been designed to have the fuel back up for most journeys, but to be used on electric mode most of the time as they claim this range is enough for many peoples normal commutes etc. However it would appear that the car has no heating capability on electric only so as some are pointing out, for several months of the year, unless you are prepared to layer up, you simply will not be able to run it on electricity anyway! Mitsi are struggling with answers to that. And then if its too hot I am not sure if the a/c works on electricity. Lastly there are comments that the car is not designed for offroad or even SUV use as there is an inbuilt safety mechanism to prevent the electric motors being damaged if it is detecting slipping wheels, or high resistance that you may get in soft ground! They are also struggling with answers to cost of battery replacement....... Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 13:03   Crankcase's new electric car... - Manatee

I was certainly offered a "good" deal on a PHEV demonstrator. The main reason for turning it down was simply that I could not see the savings. Given I only spend up to £1,500 a year on fuel, writing a cheque for 10 times that when I already have a car with 5 years good life in it makes no sense, even if there were no fuel costs with the PHEV at all. Incidentally, the PHEV uses petrol even when in series (battery) mode - presumably for those ancillaries and when extra acceleration is needed. I can't remember the ins and outs now but I have just looked at my spreadsheet and I assumed 250mpg in series mode, which I must have based on something. I assumed 35mpg in parallel mode which is no better in fuel costs than my diesel. If I was replacing the car anyway it would be closer but even then it would be debatable for me whether the savings would offset the extra up front cost. My Outlander is only doing around 8,000 a year now but we tend to choose it for the longer runs (Cambridge and back yesterday for example - we would only have done 30 miles on electric and 100 on petrol) and use the Popemobile for local. It might make more sense to replace that with a Zoe/Leaf. The majority of PHEV buyers must be companies, as the tax is so favourable; and I bet half of those are never plugged in. It doesn't have a spare wheel either, or a place for one. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 13:04   Crankcase's new electric car... - smokie

New technology = easy target for the naysayers. Obviously the technology isn't for all yet. But the early adopters will bring the issues to the fore and the product will improve over time, and expectations will be tuned. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 13:15   Crankcase's new electric car... - Manatee

I'm no Luddite. I wanted to like it, and I did. But like solar panels, they are basically uneconomic without subsidies, and apart from the £5,000 contribution I can't get at those as a private user - zero congestion charge, and lower employer NI and BIK. I resent the subsidies actually - those for solar panels are just transferring money from poorer people to richer ones via electricity bills, and the company car user causes just and much or as little congestion and gets exactly the same benefit as a petrol or diesel user. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 13:26   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

> I resent the subsidies actually - those for solar panels are just transferring money from poorer people to richer ones via electricity bills I think that but how else does stuff like this get on the market? If left to the market the cost would perhaps be so high that only the very wealthy would be able to afford it. I suppose it depends on the amount of subsidy and the total cost and what product it is. I do agree in principle though it doesn't seem very fair. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 13:49   Crankcase's new electric car... - smokie

Probably not for this thread, but you are maybe not right Sooty - I was quoted £14.5k for the same installation of solar panels under the original subsidy scheme. Each time the subsidies were dropped, the cost of materials and more importantly installation dropped correspondingly. So the set up I paid about £10.5k for is probably now around the £5k mark (if you can find an installer - as a lot went out of business when the subsidies lowered). The way I see it, a lot of subsidy really ended up as extra profit for installers and manufacturers, and no benefit to the consumer. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 13:56   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

I wasn't talking about solar panels, i was talking about the principal in general. It was the example in the text. Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 19 Feb 16 at 13:57 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 14:10   Crankcase's new electric car... - smokie

Same principle though IMO Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 14:17   Crankcase's new electric car... - sooty123

Likewise. I think we both agree they aren't a good idea, but perhaps for different reasons. Btw can we have another vol, this thread is getting a bit big. Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 19 Feb 16 at 14:19 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 19 Feb 16 20:03   Crankcase's new electric car... - mikeyb

>> Lots of negative comments about their claimed mpg of well into 3 figures, Apparently this >> is based on the fact that the car can run on electricity for 30 miles >> and the European standard regs allow the majority of the test to be done on >> However it would appear that the car has no heating capability on electric only so >> as some are pointing out, for several months of the year, unless you are prepared >> to layer up, you simply will not be able to run it on electricity anyway! >> Mitsi are struggling with answers to that. And then if its too hot I am >> not sure if the a/c works on electricity. The heating is model dependent - the entry level uses the engine, so any time its colder outside than you want it to be inside then you will be burning petrol, but the rest of the range have an electric heating system......or course though, this hits your range. I have the same issue in my Lexus CT - now its colder the engine runs more than in the summer months, but no issues with a/c - its an electric compressor as are the PAS and brake servo. I quite like the Outlander and have considered one, but the problem for us is that several days a week we will cover 100+ miles with no real opportunity to charge in between so in effect its like running a 2.0 petrol SUV for 75% of the time. I think Mitsi say you are better off with the diesel at anything over about 100 miles a day, but I think thats optimistic Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 20 Feb 16 15:53   Crankcase's new electric car... - cosec

I must say I rather like my Outlander PHEV. My current commute is about 15 miles to Northampton station then 15 back. I get no more than 20 miles on EV mode at this time of year, so petrol for the rest. It also tends to start on petrol at any temp under 10c and stays on petrol for the first mile or so. If you put your foot down to overtake the petrol automatically kicks in. It does indeed have an electric heater. It is blowing hot air after less than a mile, so better than a normal petrol car. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 20 Feb 16 16:00   Crankcase's new electric car... - WillDeBeest

Not really. Our very old-tech Fabia (Skoda engine, not VW) was blowing hot air by the end of our road - all of 400m from home. Downhill too. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 20 Feb 16 18:12   Crankcase's new electric car... - cosec

Nice old tech engines! I find modern cars tend to take much longer, better thermodynamics I guess. I remember my old Fiat Panda 1 litre was similar although that could have been the rusty bulkhead letting all the warm air in. My wife's Smart seems to take a while to warm up. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 20 Feb 16 19:45   Crankcase's new electric car... - CGNorwich

Back in the seventies I had a rear enginesd water cooled Simca 1000. The water for the heater travelled the length of the car in a hose under the floor. In cold weather the water was luke warm before it reached the heater. Coldest car I ever had. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 23 Feb 16 01:18   Crankcase's new electric car... - VxFan

This might be of interest to someone. The Gadget show (shown last Friday evening) had an article on electric cars. The Renault Zoe, VW E-Up!, & BMW I3 www.my5.tv/the-gadget-show/season-23/future-special You'll need to skip through to approx. 9 minutes to get to it. Can't find an alternate link to youtube. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 27 Feb 16 10:59   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

The subsidies for electric and hybrid cars are changing on Tuesday. www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/91339/uk-plug-in-hybrid-sales-shoot-up-after-ev-car-grant-replaced Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 27 Feb 16 12:15   Crankcase's new electric car... - smokie

That's quite an old article and I thought I 'd read that they were continuing as is. Will have a hunt around. [EDIT] oops they did extend the old scheme till end Feb and the new one starts, as ON says, on Tuesday. Here's the Govt doc which has the categories and lists of cars in each. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/502056/plug-in-grant-rate-changes-2016.pdf Last edited by: smokie on Sat 27 Feb 16 at 12:53 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 27 Feb 16 12:19   Crankcase's new electric car... - Old Navy

My course was Sky news (TV), I can't find it on their website. Reply to this message | Report message