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...for taking action against or 'Policing' farmers who cover our roads with mud?
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...as it's (potentially) a criminal act under either the Highways Act or the Road Traffic Act, it could be pursued by the police.
However, the "conventional" means of you yourself pursuing it appears to be by reporting it to the local Highways Authority, (often the County Council) in the same way as you would a pothole or a street light out (or at least, I do).
You will probably find that there is a (CC) website that will allow you to do this.
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Farmers and mud in the country, who'd fought it.
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Mud from tractors, mud washed onto the road by rain, water run off freezing on the road, snow blowing off fields onto the road, surface water, minor floods, why should any of this be a surprise?
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Perhaps you wouldn't be so facetious if it was one of yours that got taken out by a lorry losing control due to the ignorance of the farmer.
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My crystal ball was switched off.
It should be even less of a surprise to a lorry driver.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 19:35
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Farming is a muddy business. The Mud, the Farmer, the Farm was there long before you rocked up townie.
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Actually it is an offence under the Highways Actto deposit mud on the road, farmer or not, and doing so can result in a criminal prosecution. The farmer can. In addition be sued in nuisance or negligence by for any damage caused.
Obviously it is inevitable in day to day farming operations that some mud can be deposited on the road and it is the rsponsibility of the farmer to clean it up soon as possible.
In answer to the original query the local authority has powers to order that mud b cleared form the road and if there is a problem it is to them that you should turn.
www.thrings.com/site/news_events/thrings_news/mud_on_the_roads.html
www.thrings.com/site/news_events/thrings_news/mud_on_the_roads.html
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>> Actually it is an offence under the Highways Actto deposit mud on the road, farmer
>> or not, and doing so can result in a criminal prosecution. The farmer can. In
>> addition be sued in nuisance or negligence by for any damage caused.
Basically what he said.
Here's Oxfordshire's policy on it. I suspect your local area has pretty much the same info too.
www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/public-site/street-maintenance-z
www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/content/mud-highway
Also, here's some other legal stuff if you can pick your way through it.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66
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My experience of living in Cornwall for 19 tells me never to upset a farmer.
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>> My experience of living in Cornwall for 19 tells me never to upset a farmer.
>>
Especially when they're muck spreading.
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The clear hatred between some locals and Farmers has to be experienced to be believed. I have many farming friends as attested by the permissions I have over their land.
My question was quite simple really.
It is also noted that house builders are monitored by the authorities and are forced to employ mechanical sweepers and water bowsers to clean the immediate roads, but farmers can kill and maim regardless. The Maize harvest is the main cause of the problem.
Regards, non-Townie.
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"but farmers can kill and maim regardless."
A ridiculous statement. See the information above.
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The Maize harvest is the main cause of the problem.
>>
Very true; and if the Soil Association is to be believed, it's more than cars that get ruined.
www.soilassociation.org/soils/maizeagrowingproblem
Trouble is, if you encourage farmers to grow a particular crop which pays well you can't really blame them for the mess it makes; contrary to popular belief, farms exist like other businesses to make money and not just to make the countryside look pretty.
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>> Trouble is, if you encourage farmers to grow a particular crop which pays well you
>> can't really blame them for the mess it makes; contrary to popular belief, farms exist
>> like other businesses to make money and not just to make the countryside look pretty.
Farmers claim only they are suitable guardians for the countryside tho.
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>> Farmers claim only they are suitable guardians for the countryside tho.
>>
Having seen the mess politicians make of it, I'm inclined to believe the farmers.
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All it takes is a little observation of the surrounding fields and thought, it is ploughing time of year, is it or has it been wet, farmers tend to go home in their tractors at tea time.
I hope the one of yours is OK, one of my daughters pals broke her back rolling her car into a field due to mud on the road, on the B939.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 19:49
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The traction control on my car isn't working at the moment, nor is the abs.
So got a bit of wheelspin this morning on an icy patch. Offside wheel I think. It's warmer this evening.
We get lots of mud too but oddly it's better for grip when it's really cold.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 21 Jan 16 at 19:54
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>> All it takes is a little observation of the surrounding fields and thought, it is
>> ploughing time of year, is it or has it been wet, farmers tend to go
>> home in their tractors at tea time.
Yesterday morning (earlyish) I was driving along some back roads in the Chilterns. The roads were covered in ice and slippy - Who do I blame for putting the ice there?
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Hazard of rural life as Zero said. Loads of it around here.
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...my memories of Cornwall is that there's a lot of "brown ice" (both varieties) on the roads.
A friend wrote a Hillman Hunter off on a patch in the early 80's.
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....yeah.
From looking at the road afterwards he must have $h1t himself.
;-)
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Fortunately, iPads are remarkably resistant to snorted tea...
:-)))
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Did the person involved see who was responsible for this mud on the road? If not I would think it impossible to prove anything?
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I once came up asmall rise in the road, somewhere around Cressage in Shropshire, at the top of which was a right hand bend then a downhill slope. When I got to the top, at about 40mph the road was covered in ice and slush caused by a lot of water running down a farm drive on the left.
There must have been a burst water main at the farm I just had to hang on to the steering, keep off the brakes and hope I got across..........which I did, in spite of piloting a Condor A340 motorcycle at the time !
I should think that was the farmer's responsibility...at least to put warning signs either side. Oh, I forgot, it was dark at the time...just to add to the danger !
I expect he was sat before his nice hot woodburner, listening to re-runs of the Archers and tucking into a mangle-wurzel ! Lordy, it was cold that night. I recall stopping at Prees Heath for a pee and not being able to grip my zip to get it back up. Had to ride home with me Trossachs freezing off.
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This is an on-going and never ending problem in the Fens and wherever the dozens of local beet heaps move to for loading, follows a spate of accidents.
Last year we had a motorcyclist killed and this year another seriously injured, both in the dark around 5am while travelling to work on he same stretch of mud covered road.
There have been so many car accidents locally since Wissington beet factory started intake again at the end of September, made worse by the BST clock change where most people go to, and from, work in the dark.
Hard to see what's growing in the fields around, or what's coating the road on a mild wet morning then, and contrary to local belief, it isn't only local people who use our roads so expecting them to compensate for it is so wrong.
Our local council don't want to know and local police haven't the time or resources despite turning out 4 police cars and the police helicopter to follow a stolen tractor the other night....it wasn't even a Fast Trak.
Local Produce packers and factories manage to clean the roads around their gates so why don't we expect the farmers to do this too?
Local forums are usually in the vein of the comments above in this thread 'Its farming area, what do they expect?' or 'They move up here from London and expect to change us'
......until it is a local who ends up in the ditch, or seriously injured, and it often is, despite them being aware of where the beet heaps are every single year.
The cost of dealing with these accidents falls upon the emergency services where the cost of preventing them would fall on the farmer, and that is the root of the problem.
Pat
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>> Lordy, it was cold that night. I recall
>> stopping at Prees Heath for a pee and not being able to grip my zip
>> to get it back up. Had to ride home with me Trossachs freezing off.
>>
For an ex-copper, that is the most pathetic excuse that I have ever heard!
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It might constitute a defence in court, though !
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There is only one answer to the original query, the driver is responsible for the control of the vehicle in all road conditions. Blame shifting onto anyone else won't help.
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It's not blame shifting.
How about we expect farmers to comlpy with the law which is
>>Farmers (and other vehicle operatives such as construction companies) are legally obliged to clear up after themselves and are potentially liable for a range of offences. While there is a range of powers available to the police and highways department the primary powers fall under the Highways Act 1980:
•Section 148 of the Highways Act 1980 makes it an offence to deposit mud etc. on the highway that would interrupt other users of the highway.
•Section 149 of the Highways Act 1980 gives the highways authority the power to clean the road and recover its expenses from the person causing the obstruction.
•Section 161 Highways Act 1980 “If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, deposits anything whatsoever on a highway in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured or endangered, that person is guilty of an offenceâ€. Contravention of sections 148 and 162 can lead to a Level 3 fine of £1000 in the magistrate’s court. Furthermore if mud on the road leads to personal injury, damage to property, or any loss or inconvenience then the person responsible may be liable for damages. A conviction in the criminal court may be relied on in a claim for damages.
<<
...and then we expect it to be enforced as well.
Pat
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>> It's not blame shifting.
>>
>> How about we expect farmers to comlpy with the law which is
How about we expect the supermarkets, who are forcing the farmers margins ever downwards to pay for it. How about the supermarkets then expecting that cost to be passed on the consumer?
Or of course, we could expect motorists to have some common sense, and drive for the conditions?
Nah can't have that can we.
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>>
>> How about we expect the supermarkets, who are forcing the farmers margins ever downwards to
>> pay for it. How about the supermarkets then expecting that cost to be passed on
>> the consumer?
>>
>>
Epic attempt at irrelevant sidetracking there :-)
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Car4Play, where Whatabouttery really matters.
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>> Epic attempt at irrelevant sidetracking there :-)
Not in the least bit irrelevant. Cleaning roads costs money, where does that come from?
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>>
>> >> Epic attempt at irrelevant sidetracking there :-)
>>
>> Not in the least bit irrelevant. Cleaning roads costs money, where does that come from?
>>
>>
LOL, farmers have been leaving crap all over the roads since time immemorial, nothing to do with recent shaftings from supermarkets (I'm not claiming that isn't a serious issue).
Pretty much every other industry has to pay to clean up its act (construction for example), why not farming?
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Quite so, spammers.
It's quite easy, this one. You drop ze mud on ze road, you clean ze mud up after yourself. If you don't, you are partly (PARTLY, in joint enterprise with any silly drivers going too fast) responsible for any accidents.
Bit like teenagers and socks in their bedroom.
Next.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 15:39
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"Pretty much every other industry has to pay to clean up its act (construction for example), why not farming?"
Why do you think they don't. Farmers, like anyone else, are legally responsible for cleaning up anything including mud dropped onto the road. If they fail to clean it up and the council has to do the job they are empowered to send them the bill and prosecute them.
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Why do you think they don't.
For me, anyone who travels on regularly on a country road will know there's plenty of mud left on the road from fields.
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Well I live in Norfolk and drive all around the county. The roads are kept in a reasonable condition. Mud left on the roads for a long period is not a major problem. The beet campaign is in full swing and there has been a lot of rain but I can't say I've seen a lot of mud on the roads this winter. If there is a lot of mud on the road ring the council and they will sort it. Urgent problems are attended to in a matter of hours. As I said the council can and do prosecute serial offenders.
It's hard for farmers to deny responsibility if the trail of mud emanates from their field.
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>> Well I live in Norfolk and drive all around the county. The roads are kept in a reasonable condition. Mud left on the roads for a long period is not a major problem. The beet campaign is in full swing and there has been a lot of rain but I can't say I've seen a lot of mud on the> roads this winter. If there is a lot of mud on the road ring the
council and they will sort it. Urgent problems are attended to in a matter of hours.
oh it doesn't overly bother me at all. Likewise i live in a rural county, no noticeable difference from here to norfolk. From what i see no effort is made to clear up the mud.
Not an issue for me, but no doubt is for others, such as those on this thread.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 20:48
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I wonder how many of those who find mud on the road a problem ever complain to the local council? If they don't know about it they can't do anything.
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I bet many don't have an issue with it so never think to complain to anyone. Then there's people that do find it an issue but don't know it's anything to do with the council so never tell them. That's my guess anyway.
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>> It's not blame shifting.
>> Pat
>>
In your perfect world farmers would have to follow every bit of machinery with a road sweeper.
Do you deny the drivers responsibility?
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>>Do you deny the drivers responsibility? <<
Not at all.
I see it as a joint responsibility but only one side is expect to comply.
.......and even when an inquest finds fault with it, and still it isn't pursued, something is wrong somewhere.
Pat
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>> There is only one answer to the original query, the driver is responsible for the
>> control of the vehicle in all road conditions. Blame shifting onto anyone else won't help.
>>
Driving everywhere at 10mph in case farmer giles has created a skid pan round the next bend seems a tad untenable.
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>> Driving everywhere at 10mph in case farmer giles has created a skid pan round the
>> next bend seems a tad untenable.
>>
I agree, but the quick mental risk assessment should cover the area, work in progress, ie the farmer is lifting spuds, they must be going somewhere, is the lorry or tractor trailer pulling mud onto the road? It's no different to dropping your speed when passing a school at home time. However I have heard that some people need big flashing signs to get that message through so there is little hope for figuring out there might be mud or ice on the road.
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Driving everywhere at 10mph in case farmer giles has created a skid pan round the next bend seems a tad untenable.
You drive, or should, to the conditions you see. If you go hooning round a bend, you could find a stationary truck round it; or anything else really.
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..........and you're from *anywhere west of Cardiff*, have never been to the Fens before and it's 2am on a very dark night you can see the farmer lifting spuds in the field?
Come on, let's be realistic here, we don't have street lights on Fen roads, we shouldn't need them and when the mud is caked on evenly for stretches of 2 or 3 miles then it's not easy to see specially when it starts halfway round a bend.
.......and why are we defending farmers who are failing in their duty of care to other road users?
Small firms comply, what's so special about a farmer?
I've done my share of loading straw, spuds, onions and carrots for farms all over the country and they all have a 'sweeper' dropped in some obscure part of the farmyard but just don't want to use it.
Carrots from Duffuss near Elgin were no different either, the roads were just as mud covered but a different colour to the Fen. Just as dangerous though.
Pat
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If you have ever seen a farmer working at night you will know that their machinery is lit up like Blackpool with road going lights, flood lights front and rear and maybe even flashing orange beacons. They tend to stand out in a dark field.
:-)
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My point exactly ON but they leave the mud in the day and go to bed at night for others to navigate it.
Pat
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To state what should be obvious - it can't always be the driver's fault.
- people whose activities leave a lot of mud on the road should put out 'slippery road' signs and clean up at least daily. Both are effectively a legal requirement.
- drivers must mitigate their own risk as far as practicable - it is unrealistic to expect that there will never be mud on the road or that it will not be in a dangerous place, such as a bend or adjacent to a huge ditch or drain.
We get a lot of mud round here that literally goes with the territory. Nevertheless I am dismayed sometimes by the lack of signs that does unnecessarily endanger the unwary - there are some serious ditches on the local roads as well as the possibility of head on collisions; and one young farmer in particular seems to revel in driving at maximum speed with the tractor so as to detach the maximum amount of field from the machine while travelling.
The responsible party is the one that deposits, or allows the deposit of, the mud. It is an offence to deposit anything on a road that could endanger others, so the police are an option for a complainant. The local authority also has the power to clean the road and recover costs from the offender.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 16:42
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I do worry sometimes that I seem to care so little about a lot of things that others get so very vexed over. I occasionally think I should be much more dissatisfied with things in general. Perhaps it will come with age.
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>> I do worry sometimes that I seem to care so little about a lot of
>> things that others get so very vexed over. I occasionally think I should be much
>> more dissatisfied with things in general. Perhaps it will come with age.
>>
A while ago someone (OK a woman) backed into my CR in a car park, a minor bump with an almost imperceptible dent in the metal and the bumper did it job and took the impact without damage. After the incident had been amicably resolved a couple asked on two separate occasions if we wanted witnesses and said the would be happy to go to court on our behalf. I would not like to bump their car. Age does seem to mellow and make you realise what the important things in life are.
Winding people up on here for example. :-)
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>>
>> It might constitute a defence in court, though !
>>
I think you mean "It might stand up in court". :-)
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Entries and laybys long familiar are greasy at present after all this rain. Ice is the worst thing and most dangerous, but there's a lot of very slippery mud round here brought out of the fields by huge tractors. It's quite good and grippy when frozen (unlike the road proper!), but can get very slippery when wet as it so often is.
Pays not to try to go too fast and to look over the hedgerows when you can. No need for a satirical crawl of course, but you need to stay loose, vigilant, not too gung-ho.
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Which Body is responsible... - tyrednemotional
