I see from this article that police in Wales are starting their winter drink/drug checks. It also says that over thirty thousand drivers were stopped last winter.
I don't know what the rules are - I thought they had to have reasonable suspicion, as in you clip a kerb or something? Or am I hopelessly out of date and they can stop any old person any time for the heck of it? Or indeed, is Wales different?
It just seems that 30k is a lot of drivers wobbling about, especially as only under 500 were positive. A "not positive" rate of 98% odd.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/motorists-warned-expect-roadside-tests-10533772
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AFAIK there has to be a reason, other than randomness. But that isn't difficult. Pick anybody who is a bit over the speed limit, or well below, late signalling, too far from the kerb, too near the kerb, only one hand on the wheel, defective light, steamed up windows...that probably covers about 90%.
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Yes. Happened to me in the summer, as I think I reported here at the time, for a momentary (would say that, wouldn't I?) 36 in a 30. As I left, the next one was being reeled in.
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The police can stop anyone they fancy to establish if they have a valid driving licence or insurance.
Anyone... at random.
The drink/drive stuff can emanate from that.
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They can simply cite the time of day or year bor vicinity to pubs etc...
2. Breath tests
The police can stop you at any time and ask you to take a breath test (‘breathalyse’ you) if:
they think you’ve been drinking
you’ve committed a traffic offence
you’ve been involved in a road traffic accident
If you refuse to take a breath test, or fail to supply a sample of breath and don’t have a ‘reasonable excuse’, you can be arrested. A reasonable excuse could be a genuine physical or mental condition stopping you from giving a sample.
The breath test gives a result straight away. If it shows you’re not over the drink drive limit, you may be allowed to go.
If you fail the breath test, you’ll be taken to a police station and given a final breath test. If it’s positive, you will be charged.
If the officer thinks you’re under the influence of alcohol or drugs, they can ask you to:
take a drug test
do a physical test (a ‘field impairment test’), eg walk in a straight line then turn around and walk back
You can be arrested if you fail the test.
If you fail a breath test you can’t drive your car until you’re sober. You can ask someone else to collect your car for you.
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Just to add Shiny:
You can only be arrested if you fail or refuse and there is a suspicion of alcohol.
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I didn't know that, WP, the stopping anyone at any time to check docs. Interesting, ta.
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>>they can stop any old person any time
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It's the young ones they ought to target. :)
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>>It's the young ones they ought to target. :)
I saw the smiley BUT
Lots of 50+ boozers - not necessarily bladdered but continually topping up throughout the day - a pint or 2/3 at Lunchtime, quick snifter at 5.30, drive home + large glass / 2 of wine with dinner and nip out to pickup the family member off the train/from the Cinema etc etc
Easier to catch them in Scotland where the limit is a lot lower!!
Lower DD Limits BUT this does not stop the hard drinkers, they drink as much as they can
5 year ban & £5,000 fine after being caught twice in a week!
tinyurl.com/gvju9ws
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>>It's the young ones they ought to target. :)
Now I never drink and drive. Not even a little bit. Zero tolerance here. I haven't always been so sensible.
Looking back I think I DD'd more often when I was older, although more horrifically when I was young. i.e. often a bit over the limit when older versus the younger version of not often but blasted.
Depends which you consider the worse risk; older/often I should think.
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WP, if my watching of the various TV programs are correct, the only admissible evidence is the machine in the station?
Does the car based breathalyser just have pass / fail or does it have levels? I suppose I am saying if you blew at or maybe one over the level, is it a case of by the time you get to the station there is a good chance you will be under?
If so, what are the best delaying tactics to use that won't get you into more trouble?
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Been some discussion elsewhere involving former Traffic Officers from NWP. The consensus was that it's wrong and it sends the wrong messages to law abiding drivers. Seems the requests are "slight of hand" i.e. road checks where everyone is stopped and asked for a "voluntary" check. Personally I'd prefer Officers to work at intelligence led tests and get a better hit rate. I'd be annoyed if I was stopped, and minded to refuse unless the "reasonable suspicion" was disclosed. I never drink and drive.
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Conversely I would not be at all bothered by a random or routine stop. But a targetted stop would irritate me.
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Run away fast. They're wearing so much kit they won't catch you if you're quick out of the blocks.
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>> WP, if my watching of the various TV programs are correct, the only admissible evidence
>> is the machine in the station?
Correct. The machine at the station is considerably more accurate, the one on the street is a screening device and holds no evidential value.
>> Does the car based breathalyser just have pass / fail or does it have levels?
Where I was just pass/fail. I think some forces do have ones with levels, I know they exist, probably cost more.
>> I suppose I am saying if you blew at or maybe one over the level,
>> is it a case of by the time you get to the station there is
>> a good chance you will be under?
Can happen.
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>> If so, what are the best delaying tactics to use that won't get you into
>> more trouble?
Depends on whether you are going up or down with your levels. If you've not long had a drink*, chances are your alcohol levels are still rising, in which case by the time you get back to the nick your reading will be higher.
Conversely, if you'd had a drink a while ago and your levels are falling, then the longer there's a delay the lower your levels would be.
I've seen people doing heavy exercise in their cells trying to burn it all off, no idea if that works, perhaps Lygonos can help?
* if you've literally just had a drink, they'll wait 20 mins at the roadside to ensure there's a reasonably accurate reading, otherwise if you have a mouthful of alcohol the reading will be falsely high. You are asked when you last had a drink and they'll make sure it wasn't in the last 20 mins.
Last edited by: Westpig on Wed 2 Dec 15 at 08:32
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Years ago I went out with a Thames Valley traffic cop a couple of times and he stopped a guy swerving his way out of a restaurant. Turned out he was from Monaco, had flown in that day, and apparently spoke no English. It took best part of 3 hours to get a translator to the police station to read him his rights by which time he blew under. Recently I've seen them on the telly doing that bit by phone. Would have saved us the 130+ mph dash up the M4 from Slough to Reading to collect the translator!!
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So if its a morning after type case then telling them you have just had a drink will give you 20 mins time anyway?
Re heavy exercise, would have thought you would have went straight on the machine on arriving at the station to prevent any further delays?
[I am obviously not advocating drink driving but if, for whatever reason, I ever found myself just over the limit I would be wanting to try every possible avenue to make sure that the level was below by the time it came to the station]
And re running away, pretty sure the copper in all his gear would catch me before I had gone too far!
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I used to use rapid and heavy breathing, thinking that since breathalysers worked by measuring alcohol in the breath, that might reduce the reading. No idea if it did.
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Sitting waiting on a parking space to go to chemist for a Rx.
Out of really nowhere a Citroen Saxo pulls shaarply across the front of me and parks in a disabled space. (No Blue badge!) Driver gets out and runs off to the shops. At this point a space appeared & i parked and walked to the Pharmacy.
Just as was in the door the above driver appeared from the " consulting room" and rushes out the door. The consulting room can be used for the Pharmacist to have a conversation with the customer HOWEVER this is a pretty rough village and some queue everyday for opening - Methadone users! (Methadone = Heroine substitute!!)
A pint of beer might take you near the DD Limit in Scotland so I do not drink at all if driving - Driving with Methadone in the system surely must be a bigger danger to tyhe general public!
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I must admit to enjoying a beer or three 5 evenings a week. One of the reasons I bought the current LL Towers was because of the proximity (sub 5 mins) of two village locals, plus another two good boozers within a 20 minute walk.
However, I am paranoid about drinking & driving. I won't even have a bottle of shandy, and if I know I'm driving the next morning then my intake is limited to three pints, and that's early doors, home by 8.
Losing your licence in rural parts would really screw up your life. And finances.
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>> Losing your licence in rural parts would really screw up your life. And finances.
Yes, it would. But there's no need to go to extremes. I've always thought it OK to drive after a drink or two, but then a couple of drinks (I don't mean seven or eight!) don't make me unduly optimistic or noticeably uncoordinated.
I've been green on the breathalyser a couple of times, but not over the limit when properly measured. I don't drive when I'm actually drunk (although I probably did a few times when younger and sillier). But then I can trust myself to know the difference. It seems that not everyone can.
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Not so sure of yourself that you didn't do your heavy breathing to try to get the reading down!
Can't see that working, incidentally. Vigorous exercise might, as alcohol is easier than glucose to metabolize for energy (it's easier to set fire to too, presumably for the same chemical reason) so increasing the demand for energy may encourage the liver to break down the alcohol faster. Seems unlikely that you could do enough in a short fine in the confines of a police cell to make much difference, though.
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>> Not so sure of yourself that you didn't do your heavy breathing to try to get the reading down!
That was a long time ago, when I sometimes did drive after drinking too much.
>> Can't see that working, incidentally. Vigorous exercise might, as alcohol is easier than glucose to metabolize for energy
Vigorous exercise... running away? Perhaps, but might be misconstrued by the BiB. I'm quite sensible these days.
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>>Driving with Methadone in the system surely must be a bigger danger to tyhe general public
All joking aside the danger may actually be worse without the methadone!
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>> All joking aside the danger may actually be worse without the methadone!
Yes. Opiates, even the ghastly synthetic methadone, don't make people drive dangerously in themselves. Withdrawal symptoms are another matter though, make people jittery and distracted.
Booze is much riskier, especially in young inexperienced drivers who are given to excessive optimism.
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Methadone is a synthetic opiate whose use as a 'cure' for heroin addiction was pioneered according to Burroughs by the British Dr Dent. The thinking was that methadone suppressed heroin withdrawal symptoms but unlike heroin wasn't pleasurable, so the former junkies could switch to methadone and then easily come off that.
Burroughs claimed Dent had cured him of heroin addiction. But he later backslid, several times. The idea that addicts wouldn't get greedy with methadone because it wasn't nice to take didn't really stand up. Addicts I knew did get greedy with it, hoping for a high, and built up big methadone habits... they also played nasty tricks on each other by slipping each other overdoses.
No doubt methadone/chlorpromazine has a useful side, but its use needs to be ramrodded by intelligent specialist quacks. Just handing it out to junkies instead of the good H doesn't seem to work in any way. And that was how it was dispensed when I knew junkies.
Had a junkie friend who went to Tanzania to come off junk, knowing he wouldn't be able to get it there. He married there and had a child, but he and his Tanzanian wife turned to alcohol instead, drinking the local hooch. I later paid them a memorable visit in their remote upcountry village.
PS: Methadone tended to give junkies bad ulcers in their favourite needle-in-vein place (often inside the elbow, but any visible vein would do).
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 7 Dec 15 at 15:47
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>> Had a junkie friend who went to Tanzania to come off junk, knowing he wouldn't be able to get it there.
He was older than me and Cambridge not Oxford, and come to think of it he introduced me to junk with a speedball of H and coke... but in shoulder muscle not the mainline vein. He was careful - I guess economizing on the dope played a part - to give me a tyro's very small cautious dose.
Junkies can get slobbish and squalid but intelligent ones are careful and, well, intelligent. Worth bearing that in mind if you find yourself in a lively part of the Gorbals some day at a loose end. Choose your sources with care, if you must dice with death.
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Police stopping drivers - Manatee
