| Motoring Discussion > CVT - good or bad? | Buying / Selling |
| Thread Author: movilogo | Replies: 16 |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 11:43
CVT - good or bad? - movilogo
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Fancied another Kia (e.g. Sportage) as an upgrade from my Ceed but Sportage only comes with diesel AWD auto mode with horrible fuel economy. Looking for other candidates at similar price range, I could find Toyota RAV4 CVT 2.0 petrol Suzuki SX4 S-cross CVT 1.6 petrol Suzuki new Vitara 1.6 petrol (TC auto) - no spare wheel though Not yet test driven either but are new CVTs any good? Both cars offer 6-7 speed stepped manual control via shifter/flappy pedals if shifter is moved from "D" to "M" mode. Suzuki CVT fuel economy figure is better than manual model! Do the CVTs creep like traditional autos? Looked at specific forums to see if above CVTs faced any issue. There were few instances of Toyota CVT transmission failures! The Suzuki is too new to find anything online. |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 12:14
CVT - good or bad? - Lygonos
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I have the Suzuki CVT in the 2.4 Kizashi (I think it's a Jatco developed unit). It creeps like a torque converter, is slightly slower off the mark than you'd expect but once rolling takes off very nicely. In D it constantly varies (who'da thunk it?) the ratios up to around 35mph/1000rpm - you can use the flappy paddles while in D to shift to 'manual mode' and will then go back to auto once you are cruising again. In M it goes through 6 ratios with the paddles (or knocking the gearstick forward but the paddles are far easier) - changes are smooth and no slower than a TC auto (slower than a DSG though). Fuel economy is not bad - 30-32mpg average (calculated) for mixed driving, 35mpg fast motorway, 40mpg driving Miss Daisy. Heavy right foot is noisy as in D the engine goes to 6,000rpm at wide-open throttle and stays there until you ease back - you can make almost as good progress with less fuss at 2/3 throttle and the revs around 5k (VVT kicks in above 4k rpm) - in manual mode the revs rise like a manual/TC auto until you shift gear. Having switchable 4wd helps as fast get-aways mean the car drops into the equivalent of 1st gear and can scrabble on wet surfaces until traction control chimes in - with 4wd activated you can blast off with no wheelspin on wet roads. Reliability appears decent if not exceptional from browsing the t'interweb. I drove an SX4 (manual) yesterday as the Kizashi was being serviced and was underwhelmed by the interior - very much hard plastics and low rent compared to the 'Germanic' tactile stuff in the Kiz. Have a nosey at 12-24mth old Forester CVT (now available in the diseasel but the petrol turbo can manage over 30mpg if driven mderately) - the Lineartronic CVT gets generally positive reviews, appears pretty bulletproof, and as Subs have a 5 year warranty letting someone else take the depreciation hit for year one means you'll still have a decent amount of warranty left to play with. |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 22:19
CVT - good or bad? - idle_chatterer
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>> I have the Suzuki CVT in the 2.4 Kizashi (I think it's a Jatco developed >> unit). >> >> It creeps like a torque converter, is slightly slower off the mark than you'd expect >> but once rolling takes off very nicely. >> I have the same (or similar) Jatco 'box in my Outback 2.5i and (ahem) I like it too. I understand that it has a torque converter 'in front of' the CVT and as you say it behaves exactly like a TC auto when manoeuvring. It makes the best use of the limited torque. I only use the 'pre-set' flappy paddles to change down on a hill and hold a 'gear' for engine braking. Whilst it does rev when asked to accelerate, it doesn't rev excessively unless you 'kick down', so for instance - accelerating briskly up the hill at the bottom of my road it'll maybe go to 2500rpm. It is reasonably economical for a big 4wd Auto, giving similar economy to Lygonos' Kizashi. It isn't a fast car though, the Diesel is quicker and the 6cyl is a nicer drive (except at the pumps). In Australia the economics are different of course as petrol is much cheaper. Searching the interweb, these Jatco boxes are reliable enough although I think a number have failed on recent Nissan Pathfinders. I also read that the CVT in later Subarus (maybe post 2011) is significantly lighter than earlier models although I haven't read reports of failures either. Having had a VW DQ200 I am very wary of the DSG alternative, this weekend I travelled in a 1yo Focus with Ford's similar Dual-Shift 'box, it was horrible - worse even than the DQ200 with jerky progress in traffic and vibration when stationary (held on the footbrake). This only served to convince me to avoid DSG for the foreseeable. I observe that Japanese manufacturers are tending towards CVT whilst European ones are going for DSG, perhaps driven by the taxation of emissions in Europe although we now know quite why your VW (and no doubt other makes) don't give anything like the 'test conditions' economy. |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 12:59
CVT - good or bad? - Bill Payer
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Don't know how its size would stack up against the cars listed, but interested to know if you've considered Honda HR-V? Would be 1.5 petrol if you wanted auto (CVT). FWD only. No spare. Last edited by: Bill Payer on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 13:00
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 13:17
CVT - good or bad? - movilogo
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Didn't think much about Honda HRV mainly because my nearest Honda dealership had shut down couple of years back. There is a Vauxhall dealership in same place now! On a different note, I looked up at SMMT website and browsed YTD sale of cars. The following list is interesting (I removed anything less than 1% market share). I wonder why Honda sells so few cars. Suzuki is even smaller but that has been always the case. If I buy anything other than Kia, I'd miss long warranty. Toyota offers 5-yr but RAV4 is priciest of the lot. Suzuki extended warranty is ~£350/yr. Compared to equivalent BMWs which is ~1500/yr! MARQUE % Market share Ford 12.43 Vauxhall 8.94 Volkswagen 7.86 BMW 7.85 Audi 7.42 Nissan 5.85 Mercedes-Benz 5.59 Peugeot 3.57 Toyota 3.47 Hyundai 3.40 Kia 3.22 Land Rover 2.92 Skoda 2.77 Citroen 2.64 Renault 2.56 Fiat 2.48 MINI 2.31 Volvo 2.07 Honda 1.90 Mazda 1.64 SEAT 1.32 Jaguar 1.09 Suzuki 1.04 |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 14:11
CVT - good or bad? - Lygonos
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Honda CRV worth a look - online discounts of 17-20% available with decent residuals. (£22.5k for the cheapest petrol automatic which has a decent spec, £18.5k for 2wd petrol manual in lowest spec) www.new-car-discount.com/car/honda/cr-v/estate/all/automatic Similar discounts on www.drivethedeal.com but their site seems down just now. Petrol CRV auto is a 5spd TC, 1.6 diesel (160hp) is 9 spd. Both have 4wd. Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 14:13
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 14:55
CVT - good or bad? - Armel Coussine
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Bro-in-law has a nice little Toyota Auris hybrid which has CVT I think. He manages fine having been raised in a garage but I am always clumsy with CVTs, never had my hands on one long enough to get used to the strange leisurely gearchange timing. I love old-style thirsty slushpump autos though, given sufficient engine. |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 15:32
CVT - good or bad? - madf
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My 2012 Jazz 7 speed CVT is smooth, easy to drive and trouble free. Nothing else to say...
Last edited by: madf on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 15:32
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 15:41
CVT - good or bad? - Falkirk Bairn
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Toyota RAV4 CVT 2.0 petrol - Motorpoint £22.6K - likely to be Cypriot import but this is 2 litre, auto Invincible - i.e. all the toys. The new 2016 Rav4 appears in December - already on Toyota website & includes a hybrid - Hence there should be bargains "new old models" around at big discounts. Subaru 2016 Foresters have also been tweaked - US site shows new look but the UK site is usually months behind. |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 21:43
CVT - good or bad? - Aretas
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| My A4 CVT is now 13 years old, but only 77k. Love it. Tiny bit slow getting up to 2 mph but otherwise can't fault it. If you're gentle it hardly ever exceeds 2500 revs. Some CVTs seem to want to run at a stupidly noisy 5000 revs, so try before you buy! |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 08:38
CVT - good or bad? - DP
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>> My A4 CVT is now 13 years old, but only 77k. Love it. Tiny bit >> slow getting up to 2 mph but otherwise can't fault it. If you're gentle it >> hardly ever exceeds 2500 revs. Some CVTs seem to want to run at a stupidly >> noisy 5000 revs, so try before you buy! I took a 2013 A4 2.0 TDI Multitronic (CVT) 2600 miles through 5 countries in Europe in summer 2014. It was one of the most refined, relaxed, least tiring cars I've driven in that context. As you say, it tends to stay at 2500 RPM or under for almost everything. Unless it's the hilarious hill descent mode where I became aware on a few long motorway inclines that the revs were round towards 4k! Otherwise, refinement was excellent. The loading process onto the tunnel was a little challenging for the uninitiated, as I found the creep to be slightly inconsistent. Sometimes I would take my foot off the brake and it would instantly trundle forward like a conventional torque converter auto. Other times it would sit there for a second or so before starting to move. When you are being directed to park with a few inches accuracy, it's more taxing than it needs to be, as you don't seem to have much say in when it decides to creep. On the whole it worked well, but it has to be said the current generation of torque converter autos are a step forward again. |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 08:57
CVT - good or bad? - legacylad
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As someone who has never owned an auto, although driven them in the States, I am seriously considering an auto box should I buy a BMW. OTOH, should I buy a VW/Audi product I shall steer clear of DSG/ S tronic whatever they call it. The replacement will be at least 2 yo, possibly more, and kept for several years, hence reliability out of warranty is my number one consideration. I think Z has previously mentioned that DSGs are not entirely trouble free over extended periods. |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 09:44
CVT - good or bad? - movilogo
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While returning from work last night, I took a detour and visited a Suzuki dealership. Didn't have enough time for test drive but I did sit inside of both SX4 S-cross and Vitara. Vitara's bonnet is fully visible from driver's seat (very few cars can offer this nowadays). It indeed looked like a mini Landrover :-) There is no spare wheel but there is space for one in the boot. SX4 S-cross looked slightly larger. However, here I could not see bonnet without leaning forward to some extent. Both cars have flappy pedals and P-R-N-D-M style shifter. I don't understand why manufacturers offer automatics only in top spec models! Vitara's list price for auto is £19k where as manual is only £14k. The top spec often comes with features which I'm never going to use/can't be bothered (e.g. auto light/wiper, adaptive cruise control, automatic emergency braking, keyless entry, larger wheels, panoramic roof blah blah) and more stuff means more to go wrong in future. |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 10:19
CVT - good or bad? - DP
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>> I think Z has previously >> mentioned that DSGs are not entirely trouble free over extended periods. They seem to have two issues if our fleet and friends who have them are anything to go by. Reliability through mechanical failure, and odd characteristics caused by software glitches. I tried one for a weekend. Hated the thing. |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 15:49
CVT - good or bad? - Bill Payer
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>> I tried one for a weekend. Hated the thing. >> What did you hate about it? I've been put off for years by the bad things I've read on the internet and was thinking it would be like an automated manual but we recently got a 7 speed wet clutch DSG Tiguan and it seems fine to me, and I'm comparing it to my 5 speed Mercedes auto which I've had for 10yrs. You can hear the changes in Tiguan, but it's so smooth it's almost as if the noise is artificial - it reminds me of the Honda Jazz CVT where they gave it 7 steps in the gears rather than a continuously variable ratio. I driven those a couple of times and they too seemed fine to me - press one pedal to go and the other to stop. What's not to like? The only thing I would say about our car (I don't know if all DSGs do this) is it always starts in 1st and in gentle or even normal driving it changes to 2nd almost as soon as it's rolling - that took some getting used to as the TDi engine goes momentarily flat as the revs drop. The Merc (even my 5 speed) will start in 2nd in Comfort mode and even in a 1st gear start in Standard mode its acceleration away from rest is seamless. I did recenly discover that DSGs have DMF, which is somewhat alarming. I had resolved to only keep Tiguan for 3 years as it seems furiously complicated but VW's recent issues may have put paid to the plan that it would hold its price well. Oh, and on the auto cost adder - with Tiguan auto is only available with 4Motion, so it effectively adds £3K. I had planned to lease the most basic 2WD manual, but ended up buying and at rather the other end of the range. Doh! The £200 ish /mth lease deals seem to be back again now though. Last edited by: Bill Payer on Thu 19 Nov 15 at 15:54
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 11:09
CVT - good or bad? - Zero
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>> The replacement will be at least 2 yo, possibly more, and kept for several years, >> hence reliability out of warranty is my number one consideration. I think Z has previously >> mentioned that DSGs are not entirely trouble free over extended periods. Mrs Z wanted an auto, and her preference was a Polo, which of course meant a DSG. As it would be second hand and out of warranty I did some research. Mrs Z was quickly banned from mentioning the words VW and Auto, and she went with a Fiesta (pre power shift) with which she is very happy. |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 16:15
CVT - good or bad? - Aretas
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| Forgot one thing about my A4 Multronic. I does not like reversing up an incline. Difficult to control and if steep (eg parking up the banking at Brooklands) one gets the impression of doing damage. |
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