| Motoring Discussion > CrossClimate Tyres | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Slightlyfatdirector | Replies: 35 |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 17:46
CrossClimate Tyres - Slightlyfatdirector
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I have just ordered a set of these tyres for the Volvo as they seem to offer the best of both worlds. I used winter tyres on the BMW I last had after previously relying on the fabulous but fiddly tyre-socks, but we had a mild winter and down here in the South East and I questioned why I bothered. I left them on through the summer until I got rid of the car. As we CAN get bad weather down here, and I live at the bottom of a short but nasty slope which traps me at home if there is any snow, (and I also do some driving across Europe on occasion), I decided that I would get some winter tyres this year again, and err on the side of caution. At the end of the day the tyres have the most influence on me being stuck to the road and I have always bought good ones. Doing a bit of research turned up the Michelin CrossClimate tyres which seem to be beyond an 'all seasons' compromise and are looking to be both a summer and winter tyre without being a compromise on either side. It seemed to be a no-brainer, so I have bitten the bullet and have ordered a complete set (black circles being the best priced), and will get them fitted next week. Has anyone here had any direct experience of them? I know it is slightly irrelevant now I have already ordered them, but I am curious to hear other people's experiences anyway. I used to think all 'premium' brands were the same and religiously replaced the Pirelli's on the S60 I had with new ones every 10k miles or so, then changed to Michelin HP Primacy's and was shocked at how much quieter the car was, and the better mileage / wear I got from them, and at no cost to the grip. I have been less impressed with the same Michelin HP Primacy tyres fitted as standard on the V70 when I got it last year, as the traction of the front tyres seems a bit poor with even gentle acceleration on slippery roads (maybe that is more to do with me getting used to FWD again after the BM), and so for the winter tyres I was going to switch to Goodyears, but looking at these new Michelin tyres I might never need to have the winter / summer tyre change thought on my radar at all. I know that we have some posters on here from across Europe, so are Michelin taking over as the tyre of choice to save everyone in the countries that need winter tyres from doing the bi-annual switch? |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 17:58
CrossClimate Tyres - ....
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You need to remember if you have tyres with the 3PMSF markings and intend to drive in Italy in the summer the speed rating must match or exceed the cars maximum speed even though they have a 130kp/h speed limit. I'll be interested to read how you get on through the winter with them and if you venture into the Alps during winter what the local authorities think of them. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 18:17
CrossClimate Tyres - Robin O'Reliant
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>>>> >> I used winter tyres on the BMW I last had after previously relying on the >> fabulous but fiddly tyre-socks, but we had a mild winter and down here in the >> South East and I questioned why I bothered. >> >> I've been thinking about tyre socks as I do a lot of minor road driving with some steep hills thrown in. How fiddly are they? |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 18:20
CrossClimate Tyres - Shiny
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| Will wait for your feedback. I am hoping to order Nokian Weatherproof for the same reason and remarkable CAA rating despite being summer and winter competent and snow 3 peaks etc... |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 13:37
CrossClimate Tyres - Slightlyfatdirector
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>>>>>>I've been thinking about tyre socks as I do a lot of minor road driving with some steep hills thrown in. How fiddly are they? The issue is stopping the car where you come across some snow (finding somewhere suitable, and then fighting them over the tyres. OK if you have lots of room between the arch and the tyre, a fiddle if not, although you get long disposable gloves to cover you up so you don't get dirty. Once 80% on the rubber you then roll the car forward to then get out to pop the last bit over the rest of the tyre and your good to go. Then when the road is clear you have to do the reverse to get them off, or geet driving for a while knowing that you are damaging the socks on non-snow / ice roads. They are FABULOUS on the move on ice and snow and saved my bacon on a tripo back to the Uk from France. There is not a cat in hells chance that I would have made it home without them, and having a pair (or two) in the boot was a god-send. I only stuck the rears on for traction (BMW) but I had the fronts just in case too. As regards whether they are replacements to Alpin's - possibly yes. The bumpf on the Cross Climates compared them directly to Alpins in winter conditions and rated them as equal, but then they were also equal to summer tyres in non-winter conditions, so seemingly they are literally the best of both worlds. Winter tyres have less good braking characteristics to summer ones in summer weather, hence it's best not to run them in all weathers, (although to be fair I did that and noticed little difference), but of course where it matters most is in the rare but possible extreme braking situations where you want to just miss an accident rather than just get involved in one. The fiddle in changing each year is not the extra cost of the rubber as quite rightly you can only wear-out one set at a time, but in the cost of the change-over if you don't have separate wheel and tyre sets. People talk about Winter and Summer tyres or the compromise All-Seasons. With these CrossClimates, from what I can see, they are both Summer and Winter Tyres rolled into one and are not comparable to All-Seasons tyres at all. We shall see of course............. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 13:46
CrossClimate Tyres - Zero
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>> People talk about Winter and Summer tyres or the compromise All-Seasons. With these CrossClimates, from >> what I can see, they are both Summer and Winter Tyres rolled into one and >> are not comparable to All-Seasons tyres at all. >> >> We shall see of course............. Indeed, I can't see what major technological physical break through has happened here to warrant any more than "its just a name change" |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 19:04
CrossClimate Tyres - Bill Payer
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>> As regards whether they are replacements to Alpin's - possibly yes. The bumpf on the >> Cross Climates compared them directly to Alpins in winter conditions and rated them as equal, >> but then they were also equal to summer tyres in non-winter conditions, so seemingly they >> are literally the best of both worlds. >> >> Winter tyres have less good braking characteristics to summer ones in summer weather, hence it's >> best not to run them in all weathers, (although to be fair I did that >> and noticed little difference), but of course where it matters most is in the rare >> but possible extreme braking situations where you want to just miss an accident rather than >> just get involved in one. >> Ran Alpin's year run on wifey's Honda Jazz for several years and they caused no concern at all and inspired a lot of confidence in cold and wet conditions. I think I only drove in snow once and I actually wasn't that impressed - not the "night & day" difference that some people talk of when using winters, although perhaps I'd set my expectations too high. Mind you, Alpin's don't even look any different to summer tyres. Of course it's true what you say about extremes but there are so many other variables. OK, the ultimate stopped distance might be a bit more in perfect conditions but even if you do end up crashing where it might have been avoided at least it should be at low speed! And contrary to what a lot of people (included the Honda dealer doing the servicing, who was horrified that I left them on in summer) they wore at much slower rate than the Dunlop SP2030 tyres the car came with from new. Last edited by: Bill Payer on Wed 11 Nov 15 at 19:05
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 18:56
CrossClimate Tyres - Bill Payer
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Sorry - I can't help directly but have determined to put these on daughter's Golf this month as she's just about to move to a house half-way up a decent hill. Getting ours from Costco - not as cheap as they used to be for tyres but not far out and there's £50 off a set until 22nd Nov. One thing I hesitated about is they're only offered in XL versions - her car's standard tyre is 205/55R16 91V so she'll have to have 94. I'm concerned they'll feel harsh but have read reports of people who have CC's that they can't tell any difference. Don't know if you've seen it but there's a recent comparison and a video of them going up an indoor ski-slope here: www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Is-there-a-true-all-season-tyre-We-find-out.htm |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 10:16
CrossClimate Tyres - Bill Payer
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>> One thing I hesitated about is they're only offered in XL versions - her car's >> standard tyre is 205/55R16 91V so she'll have to have 94. I'm concerned they'll feel >> harsh but have read reports of people who have CC's that they can't tell any >> difference. >> Had the XL Michelin Cross Climates fitted at the weekend to daughter's Golf and both she and I are in the "can't tell any difference" camp in terms of drive, ride and noise. Mind you, the originals were Bridgestone Turanza's and Bridgestone tyres generally are noted for stiff sidewalls, so that might help the comparison. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 20:52
CrossClimate Tyres - Mike H
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>> I know that we have some posters on here from across Europe, so are Michelin >> taking over as the tyre of choice to save everyone in the countries that need >> winter tyres from doing the bi-annual switch? >> It's general reckoned that, out in the sticks in Austria where I live, you need proper winter tyres, not all-season, even if they do have the correct winter tyre markings. It's only the softies in the cities that get away with those amongst the inhabitants. That said, most of the car hire companies that operate here and in Germany fit all-seasons, simple to avoid having zillions of duplicate sets of wheels & tyres. I have always run separate sets of winter and summer tyres on my Saab, because the sizes for winter and summer as specified by the manufacturer are different (16 inch vs. 17 inch), and this carries some weight in road legality here. On the other hand, my recently delivered Honda CR-V has identical winter and summer rim/tyres sizes. It was delivered with "M+S" Goodyears, but they have no snowflake symbol and are therefore not winter legal, so I need to buy a second set of rims plus winter tyres. The annual switch isn't really a big deal, once the first spare set of rims and tyres are bought there is no greater running cost cost in having two sets rather than one, after all, you're only wearing out one set at a time ;-) |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 21:34
CrossClimate Tyres - Lygonos
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Ran Michelin Alpins on the FRV for 25000 miles or so, through 2 winters and a summer, and found them perfectly good during the summer months and a lot better in snow than Michelin Energys. Even in central Scotland, however, it is rare to have persistent snow on the road for more than 24-48hours (excepting the winters of 2010/2011 of course). The Kizashi is at 16,500 miles and the fronts (Dunlop Maxx RT) are at 3.5mm while the rears still have 6-7mm. Should have rotated them at the 9,000 service, but I will probably hit Costco for a pair of Michelin Primacy 3s for £250 all-in (235/45Y18) in the next week or two. It has switchable 4wd which is superb in the wet - the relatively wide tyres may be a let-down in the snow, but I've got the Forester if I need to do housecalls in the Yukon. Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 10 Nov 15 at 21:34
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 21:43
CrossClimate Tyres - Bill Payer
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>> It was >> delivered with "M+S" Goodyears, but they have no snowflake symbol and are therefore not winter >> legal, >> Is that a recent thing? I thought that, where winter tyres are legally required, it was the M+S marked that made them legal. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 21:54
CrossClimate Tyres - NortonES2
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Mud and Snow is the tread "style", but the snowflake symbol relates to the compound. Been that way for a number of years, but don't know when it became the arbiter. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 21:58
CrossClimate Tyres - Dog
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Only tyres which have the Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol (a snowflake inside a mountain) have been tested for use in severe snow conditions. www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/buying-guide/which-tyres-are-right-for-me-this-winter |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 22:11
CrossClimate Tyres - Mike H
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>> Is that a recent thing? I thought that, where winter tyres are legally required, it >> was the M+S marked that made them legal. >> M+S is meaningless essentially. As has been said, it's the 3 peaks & snowflake symbol that define winter tyres. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 22:22
CrossClimate Tyres - Bill Payer
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>> M+S is meaningless essentially. As has been said, it's the 3 peaks & snowflake symbol >> that define winter tyres. >> All the references to driving abroad in winter just say that the tyre needs to be marked M+S, which has always struck me as odd as I had a company car with pretty normal looking tyres that were marked M+S. Mind you, they didn't last long! Hope this isn't a bum steer - but this page seems to confirm: www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/6/Seite.0631001.html Last edited by: Bill Payer on Tue 10 Nov 15 at 22:25
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 22:29
CrossClimate Tyres - legacylad
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So have these replaced/improved on the Michelin Alpins I have on my 330 12 months a year? As I drive a low annual mileage, having two sets of wheels & tyres was not cost effective, nor feasible, as the brakes/ calipers on the 330 do not allow 17'' rims to be fitted. They really have been excellent. Quiet, long wearing, excellent in snow giving traction where I expected to be walking! Rated up to and over the cars max mph which is 155. Still lots of tread left, as there will be for winter 2017 ( assuming I still have the car) cos I'm spending most of this winter in Arizona & Spain. So there. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 22:58
CrossClimate Tyres - Manatee
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>> So have these replaced/improved on the Michelin Alpins Quite possibly for the warmer months. Almost certainly less good in cold weather or cold weather+snow. The best solution to any problem is the best compromise. The more constraints or objectives there are, the greater the compromise. Sometimes the compromise can be the cost, I suppose that's possible. To suggest that they combine all the benefits of summer and winter tyres sounds like marketing speak to me. It can probably be justified after a fashion if they are at least as good as some winter tyres, and some summer tyres. But they are not going to be as good as a summer tyre and a winter tyre can be, in their price range. Just my opinion of course. Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 10 Nov 15 at 22:59
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 22:45
CrossClimate Tyres - Bobby
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>>because the sizes for winter and summer as specified by the manufacturer are different (16 inch vs. 17 inch), What would be the reasoning behind having different tyre sizes like this? I could maybe understand different widths, especially if you had big fat tyres, but what benefit would 16s have over 17s? |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 22:52
CrossClimate Tyres - Manatee
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The smaller rim size is also usually narrower and will take a narrower tyre, better for snow. Steel rims are usually available in smaller sizes. Steel rims are cheaper. Very low profile tyres won't take snow chains. Probably a few more reasons I can't think of. |
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 23:05
CrossClimate Tyres - WillDeBeest
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BMW will sell me a custom-fit set of winter wheels and Michelins for £1,300. The wheels are 17" and uniform width, whereas the regular wheels are 18" and wider rear than front. Would probably work pretty well year-round with all-seasons and even improve the ride a little but I doubt I'll bother.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 10 Nov 15 at 23:06
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New Tue 10 Nov 15 23:13
CrossClimate Tyres - legacylad
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| That's interesting WdB. My M Tech Sport runs on 18'' rims with the same size tyres front & rear ( 225x45 I think) and I was told that I could not fit 17'' rims by various sources, including BMW. However, I find the ride more than acceptable, although I paid the thick end of almost £1k for a full set of Alpins a few years ago. The car needed new tyres all round anyway and I was not going to compromise on cheap rubber. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 00:16
CrossClimate Tyres - Lygonos
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www.mytyres.co.uk will send me 4 steel wheels fitted with Nokian WRD4 winter tyres in the Kizashi's winter tyre size (215/60x16) for about £500. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 09:48
CrossClimate Tyres - Zero
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Funnily enough I have this madcap system. I run one set of tyres - I find keeping them on the car is the best system, it came with 5, I don't see the need to equip it with 10 (yes you insane winter tyres mob, what do you do about the spare wheel hmmm?) and this system has yet to cause me any issues....... . . . . . . . . . or any extra expense. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 10:17
CrossClimate Tyres - CGNorwich
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Crazy! What do you do when the temperature plunges to -1C and there's a light dusting of snow? Hope you pack a full arctic survival kit.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 11 Nov 15 at 10:17
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 10:32
CrossClimate Tyres - Zero
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>> Crazy! What do you do when the temperature plunges to -1C and there's a light >> dusting of snow? Hope you pack a full arctic survival kit. -1c? OMG. I would have to retreat to my cave and hibernate for the winter. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 10:19
CrossClimate Tyres - smokie
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| I visited my mate in Munich a month back. On his garage wall was the set of winter wheels. He said the tyre companies gave him the steel wheels when he bought his first set of winter tyres. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 10:39
CrossClimate Tyres - Mike H
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>> The smaller rim size is also usually narrower and will take a narrower tyre, better >> for snow. Steel rims are usually available in smaller sizes. Steel rims are cheaper. Very >> low profile tyres won't take snow chains. >> Correct on all counts, although I ran mine on alloys as getting hold of suitable steels was virtually impossible in the required size. There wouldn't be enough clearance for chains with the 225/45 17" summer wheels, whereas the winters were 205/55 16s. TBH I have only used chains once in the six winters we've lived here. |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 10:49
CrossClimate Tyres - ....
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The difference between alloy and steel wheels for my car was 5€/wheel. They had a deal on the set I went for in 205/55x16 for my old car. My new car needed 205/60x16 or 215/55x16 luckily my wife's old lease car had 215/55x16 winter wheels so I had the tyres off that. My car runs 235/40 x 18 summer wheels. What I would not be doing if I had a puncture is faffing about in a foot or more of snow looking for some solid ground to put my manufacturer supplied flimsy scissor jack and additional axle stands on. Depending on where I was I'd either drive a short distance home on the flat or call out Volvo assist and see what they recommend. Anyone ever had a puncture in deep snow ? I have not. Last edited by: gmac on Wed 11 Nov 15 at 10:50
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 13:53
CrossClimate Tyres - PR
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Look at the performance comparison tab on here. Granted, it is Michelins own site, but if I could get these for my Maser then I would, sadly they don't do them in 20"! They seem much better than other all season tyres. www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-crossclimate |
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New Wed 11 Nov 15 22:04
CrossClimate Tyres - Runfer D'Hills
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For me, it's a bit like abs brakes, cross ply versus radial, drum versus discs, 4x4 or not or any provable technological advantage that can be specified or retro fitted to a car. The advantage in particular conditions is tangible of course but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't drive safely with the lesser technology if you take appropriate care. It just gives an advantage in certain circumstances if that is what you feel you need or simply want. Those who choose to avail themselves of it are at liberty and welcome to do so and those who don't can usually cope well enough by driving carefully and with respect to the extremes of the conditions. Bit like choosing or not to wear a hat in the rain. Up to the individual as to whether they are happy with the potential consequences. For me, I don't mind getting my hair wet but I quite respect the preferences of those who do. |
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New Fri 13 Nov 15 15:13
CrossClimate Tyres - alfalfa
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I have done about 2000 miles on a set of CrossClimates on my Forester. The original Yokohama Geolanders were due for replacement and the new tyres were NOT going to be Geolanders. The Michelins were approximately the same price, had a higher speed rating and were possibly better in cold conditions. So far I can say that they are a lot quieter, smoother ride and feel more secure in the wet. I can give no information on fuel economy or cold weather performance. Almost all tyres are compromises and this was one that suited me and in a few years I'll maybe know if it was the correct decision. Like Zero I prefer five tyres only but which five.... well "chacon a son gout". alfalfa |
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New Wed 18 Nov 15 10:06
CrossClimate Tyres - sajid
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i just ordered the good year gen 2 all season tyres for my honda civic, the front two tyres are some chinese brand called infinity, they are not that good in the wet as the tyres lose a little grip but on the dry they ok, my worry was how to get to work in the snow, hence was looking at all season rather than winter tyres. The rears are the good year f1 eagle asymetric 2 with 8 mm on them quieter than the potenza i had also grip better then the infinity. I bought the car in june 2014, and the dealer had fitted the infinity at the front whilst the rear were bridge stone potenza, the rear had about 2 mm left so replaced them with the eagles. i got a freind who is willing to fit and balance the tyres for me for £5 each, laser tracking £15 they mate rates, and he be willing to buy the infinity of me so win win. i have read reviews on auto bild and other websites autoexpress reccomended the nokian weatherproof, and looking at the reviews i decided to go for the goodyear gen 2 as they grip a little better on the snow, wet, but ok on the dry, The michellin were the opposite ok in the snow but excellent on the dry, best prices i got were from tyre leader, i did a lot of comparisons from other tyre retailers the difference of price was around £10 per tyre compared to the next competitor, Will see how the goodyear vector season gen 2 be like when they arrive |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 13:46
CrossClimate Tyres - Slightlyfatdirector
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Very early update. Had the CrossClimates fitted on Tuesday (bought through BlackCircles, fitted locally - best price I could find and excellent service) and had a decent drive in them from the south east up to Bicester then Stratford upon Avon and back yesterday in lots of rain and dry weather. Too early to review properly, but average fuel consumption against a normal long and varied drive was up a few MPG, and confidence it the wet was high. The ride seemed a little firmer, but only by a very tiny bit, but then we are comparing new tyres with ones that have been on the car for 18 months. Traction on acceleration in the wet was markedly better than it ever had been with the 'standard' tyres. The Michelin Pilot Primacys that had been on the car still had tons of tread on the rears, and had worn to the wear indicators on the front. Not bad after 28,000 miles from new on a heavy FWD car I don't think. The Pirellis on my old S60 only lasted 10k before replacement, against about 20k from Michelin HP Primacys that I subsequently fitted. For anyone that is interested I will post an update if / when the new tyres see some properly bad weather / ice / snow. |
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New Thu 19 Nov 15 16:09
CrossClimate Tyres - Aretas
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I will be pleased for any updates you have over the next couple of weeks, even if no nasty weather. I am not happy with the Continental tyres on my A4 - they don't have any mud/snow/ice adhesion. As I need to change three of them I am considering doing all four with the CrosssClimates. Thanks |
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New Wed 25 Nov 15 13:35
CrossClimate Tyres - Slightlyfatdirector
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Hi Aretas, Well we have had a lot of cold and wet weather down here and I have put quite a few miles on the tyres in the last week or so. Traction from a standing start in these conditions is markedly better than the normal tyres that were on the car from new. With the older ones (again - from new) the car squirmed for grip when accelerating briskly, and this is not the case now. It is difficult without directly comparing the two on the same day, but the ride is very, very fractionally firmer it seems, and perhaps the very tiniest bit noisier, but I might be mistaken. After all I am comparing tyres that were on the car for 28,000 miles and 18 months with brand-new unworn ones. Overall I am very pleased, and have a lot of confidence for them if the weather gets a lot worse. The added bonus is not having to think about a change for winter and then back to summer tyres. I would recommend them. |
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