OK, I'm stumped. Some may remember my problems with clogged washers on both our German cars. Alcohol-based screenwash, suitable for 'fanjet' washers seems to be the thing, and a place to get it - if you're too tight to pay BMW dealer prices - is, apparently, Lidl.
So when I happened to be in the vicinity of the Chichester branch, I went in. Easy, you'd think, just look with the other car supplies. What car supplies? Lots of knock-off brand power tools and similar, and a few items of clothing, but the rest seems all to be food and laundry products.
Never mind, must have caught them on a bad day. This morning I had an opportunity to try the Maidenhead branch. This time there were two types of engine oil and some pliers, but still no screenwash. Is this some elaborate hoax designed just to waste my time? Has anybody here bought this stuff?
It's beginning to matter as the first morning frost can't be far away. I may have to buy the BMW stuff after all. There goes Christmas.
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Currently using a 'homebrew' variant augmenting Anglian Water's finest H2O with French alcool a netoyer (ou a bruler) and a drop of washing up liquid.
If I'm caught without Aldi has 5 litre jerries just inside the front door at £1.99 a go.
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LIDL don't usually stock (their very good IMO ) screenwash until it is seriously winter.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 20:31
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Have you tried the VW stuff - that for fanjets. Might be a bit cheaper than the BM stuff
From memory lidl only stock the stuff a couple of times a year
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Thanks chaps. That at least seems a sensible explanation. I'll investigate VW; their dealers may be glad of some company.
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>> So when I happened to be in the vicinity of the Chichester branch, I went
>> in. Easy, you'd think, just look with the other car supplies. What car supplies? Lots
>> of knock-off brand power tools and similar, and a few items of clothing, but the
>> rest seems all to be food and laundry products.
It was probably part of their twice weekly non food special offers (Mon & Thurs, IIRC). Once gone, it's gone, until they next have another car accessories special offer.
Currently all the twice weekly special non food special offers are listed at the foot of their website on the LH side.
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I'd say the LIDL (Speedway?) -67Ëš stuff is only stocked a couple of months of the year and even then, stock is not guaranteed to last the month.
They also used to do a really good range of W5 stuff like anti-corrosion wax, silicone spray , Sonax-type summer screenwash concentrate, WD40 type stuff etc... but haven't seen it for a few years now - thinking back it didn't sell that well and always got it for a 'reduced to clear' steal.
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Lidl screenwash is just the same as any old cack you can get at Halfords, pound shop, home bargains, garage, euro car parts, etc etc.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 08:03
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Is that your opinion or do you have evidence of its poor quality?
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>> Is that your opinion or do you have evidence of its poor quality?
I didn't say it was poor quality, I said it was the same quality as elsewhere. And as the same quality its not worth hunting down when you can get the same elsewhere.
Evidence? Its a cheap discount store chain that exists to make money. You don't make money by selling high quality expensive stuff cheaply.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 08:15
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The reports I've read on the ever-reliable internet tell me it's (a) rated to -63°C which - coincidentally perhaps - is the same as the BMW branded stuff, and (b) labelled as being suitable for fanjet washers, as found on the LEC. I've not seen either of those on labels in Wilkinsons, Asda, or various car accessory shops.
I do need some soon, though, and Halfords seems a bad idea, so I'll try VW next.
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>> The reports I've read on the ever-reliable internet tell me it's (a) rated to -63°C
when it gets to -63 and my screen is frozen I will applaud your foresight and conclude i was wrong.
>
>> labelled as being suitable for fanjet washers, as found on the LEC.
I had fanjet washers on the touaran and the laguna.
>>Halfords seems a bad idea,
and their -15c ready mixed never blocked a single fan jet over 5 years i used it. and it never for below -15c either.
But hey, you just carry on fretting, insisting on buying stuff you can't actually get when you need it.
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I use ecp screenwash now. It comes concentrated which is a plus I'd say. I used to use halfords but i found they froze too early when it got cold on a winters night.
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>> I use ecp screenwash now.
I use Tesco's own brand concentrated stuff. Got several 2½ litre containers it in the garage (approx 15 to 20 litres of the stuff), bought when it was ½ price or 2 for 1 offer.
Never had a problem with it with normal jets or the fine mist spray jets that are fitted to my Astra.
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>> Never had a problem with it with normal jets or the fine mist spray jets
>> that are fitted to my Astra.
Inferior screen wash for an inferior car
(thought I would save someone the trouble of putting that one in)
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>> Inferior screen wash for an inferior car
Works well in the Lancer as well then?
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>> >> Inferior screen wash for an inferior car
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>> Works well in the Lancer as well then?
Of course.
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when it gets to -63 and my screen is frozen I will applaud your foresight and conclude i was wrong.
If you must be a blustering know-it-all, at least engage your brain first. It's not that I need antifreeze that's liquid at -63°C, it's that if the Lidl stuff has the same freezing point as BMW's, it's a fair bet that it has the same formula. And the experiences of owners of cars like mine - which do seem to be sensitive to blocked jets, as I found out - seem to bear that out.
But if the Lidl stuff isn't available, I'll find something suitable that is - just not from Halfords, because even if that's not a problem in itself, it's likely to meet MB or BMW branded stuff next time one car is in a workshop, and the two seem not to play nicely together. But that's all on another thread; no need to rehash it here.
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>> meet MB or BMW branded stuff next time one car is in a workshop, and
>> the two seem not to play nicely together.
One could put ones brain into gear, and fill up ones bottle with the cheaper but still effective screen additive, and not a: have a mixing problem, and b: not pay the inflated BMW or MB prices
Couldn't one.
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Oh for heaven's sake! Haven't you got some urgent trains to spot?
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>> I didn't say it was poor quality,
>>
My apologies, I assumed that "any old cack" meant that it was not of high quality.
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The reason you need a screen wash that withstands a silly low temperature is wind chill. Do 60 in 0 Celsius and the windscreen will see more like -11.
Lower the actual temperature to -12 and the screen will see more like -28.
Brrrr!
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 09:33
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>> The reason you need a screen wash that withstands a silly low temperature is wind
>> chill. Do 60 in 0 Celsius and the windscreen will see more like -11.
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>> Lower the actual temperature to -12 and the screen will see more like -28.
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>> Brrrr!
windchill can not make it actually colder than it it is. If the actual temperature is -12, the screen is -12.
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windchill can not make it actually colder than it it is.
Yes, it can but, as above - or, in fact, below - only if the surface is wet. Lick your finger and blow on it for a quick demonstration.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 10:50
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...wind chill. Do 60 in 0 Celsius and the windscreen will see more like -11.
Only if it's wet. Wind chill is the effect of evaporation, so it doesn't apply to dry surfaces. That's why we can measure it with a wet-and-dry-bulb thermometer.
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>> That's why we can measure it with a wet-and-dry-bulb thermometer.
?
EDIT: Don't worry, I Googled it.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 10:47
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-63 can be a bit pointless if you have headlight washer jets. Many a time I've used neat screenwash rated to -63 and arrived with 6" blocks of ice in front of my headlights the washer jets fully extended unable to retract.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 11:44
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"You don't make money by selling high quality expensive stuff cheaply."
But you can make money selling reasonable stuff for less money than the branded, but otherwise identical, stuff.
There was a time when brand names were meaningful, but that is much less the case now. I doubt there is any significant difference between this £40 charger and the one I bought a week ago for £15 from Lidl.
www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7404881.htm
Mine doesn't have 'RAC' on it, but what does that mean..?
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>> Mine doesn't have 'RAC' on it, but what does that mean..?
>>
It has a different coloured plastic case and better quality clamps.
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Actually, I prefer the clamps on mine, as they are insulated all round. The other sort are too easy to short out!
I also meant that the RAC aren't a manufacturer. Like JCB and CAT, they just use their names as marketing tools.
Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 15:44
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I meant that the LIDL charger has the better insulated clamps, I was looking at one a couple of days ago.
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I also meant that the RAC aren't a manufacturer. Like JCB and CAT, they just use their names as marketing tools.
Who makes all those big machines, then? Is that Lidl too?
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Correct about Lidl (and Aldi) in only stocking specialised items on an infrequent basis, hence the need to keep an eye on their websites.
Such offers are, more often than not, based on their seasonal sales appeal rather than being regular stock items.
Have to agree with the W5 products of all types - excellent. Unfortunately you can't get the silicone spray anymore it seems....:-( An alternative is EasyGrease, usually found in the discount stores such as Poundland; great product for the price.
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No good for sub-zero temperatures, but I have the sluttish habit of putting a few drops of washing-up liquid in the screenwash reservoir.
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I can't get too excited about screenwash.........everything I shove in seems to do ok.
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>> I have the sluttish habit of putting a few drops of washing-up liquid in the screenwash reservoir.
Add in a small amount of Isopropyl Alcohol to help prevent it from freezing.
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Never had any complaints with Asda's brand, in winter I put it in undiluted. I have not had any problems with it so not explored other makes.
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>> Add in a small amount of Isopropyl Alcohol
Er... will vodka do?
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Used to do the trick in Soviet Russia.
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For years now I've used the stuff from VW / Skoda etc dealers. It never freezes, prevents smearing and has worked just as well in SWMBO's succession of Minis, and in my Z3 when I had it, as it does in VW Group cars. And it's not all that expensive.
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Screenwash's active ingredients are water, surfactant and antifreeze.
Water is free, so you are only paying for the dash of surfactant and the antifreeze. I don't understand why people pay for ready mixed screenwash, when they can buy concentrated for the same price. It's like buying ready-mixed bathwater.
LIDL screenwash has a freezing point of 67ËšC
If we look at www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethanol-water-d_989.html
we see that means it is around 85% alcohol and costs £1.20 a litre.
If we look at the stuff in Asda, B&M etc.. it is rated at -12ËšC which is 20% alcohol and costs about 80p a litre.
groceries.asda.com/product/screenwash/ready-mixed-screenwash/910000486398
Therefore, the LIDL can be mixed with 2 parts water to have the same freezing point as ASDA's, making it 40p a litre but we also have the option of making it stronger in severe weather or putting it in a spritzer and using it neat on iced-up glass.
Last edited by: Shiny on Sat 17 Oct 15 at 10:03
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>> Water is free
Are you sure?
The marginal cost of 4 litres in a screenwash jerry is tiny but I'm paying a good few hundred pounds a year for a supply.
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Water is about £2 a cubic metre isn't it? 1p for 5 litres.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 17 Oct 15 at 10:45
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>> Water is about £2 a cubic metre isn't it? 1p for 5 litres.
Unless you call it Dasni.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasani
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Useful input, Shiny. I'm a little surprised that the alcohol in screenwash is ethanol; I'd imagined it would be something else, like ethylene glycol or isopropyl, although they'd probably have similar effects on the freezing point of the mixture.
But I'm also curious about what's not in the Lidl mixture - and specifically what isn't there that is in the Halfords stuff. Surfactant is detergent, which can cause problems in washing machines used entirely at low temperatures because of bacterial action, so I wonder if something similar is happening in my cars' washer tanks. Perhaps mixing two types of detergent produces something that is especially appealing to the bacteria. The other ingredient is perfume, to give the Halfords stuff the berry smell I rather like - at least until it gives way to the smell of a BMW dealer's invoice printer.
My observations are:
1. One Mercedes jet (of two) became troublesome within months of my taking on the car and using Halfords screenwash. Eventually required replacement to get through its MoT; that was 18 months ago and it's been OK since with Halfords, probably not mixed even when the car has been serviced.
2. Both BMW jets failed simultaneously within my first three months with the car. No idea how the first owner had treated it, but the dealer immediately asked me about Halfords screenwash. They cleared it FOC and I've been making do with plain water until I can decide on a permanent solution; it would be embarrassing to return with the same problem.
There's nothing in either car's manual beyond which hole to pour it into, and seldom any information on the screenwash packages I've looked at as to what's inside and in what concentration, and I've yet to see 'suitable for fanjets' on anything. The first I find that is will probably be the winner.
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>> I'm a little surprised that the alcohol in screenwash is ethanol; I'd imagined it would be something else, like ethylene glycol
Isn't that coolant anti-freeze? Doesn't that stuff strip paint?
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>> Isn't that coolant anti-freeze? Doesn't that stuff strip paint?
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It does strip paint but some screenwash has it listed as Ethandiol - the MSDS usually state 1-5% so maybe added to give body or lubricity - it seems a little weak concentration to have much antifreeze effect (or strip paint).
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If the VW group's Trade Parts Centre will sell to you then their own brand (Quantum) stuff is supposed to be pretty good, and suitable for fan jets. The trade price is around £2 for 5L - it's dilutable depending on the temperature you want it go down to.
I've used the Lidl stuff for a few years - I think it starts to appear around the end of October, although by chance I noticed Lidl Ireland had it featured a few weeks ago and I woudn't have expected it to be much colder there! I've read in strong concentrations it's not good for the wipers.
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>> Water is about £2 a cubic metre isn't it? 1p for 5 litres.
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More in practice as you get charged for waste water based on your water consumption. Most will be paying over £3 per cubic metre.
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Bought Halfords ready mixed screen wash rated to -20.
First real frost last winter -2, sprayed it on screen and it froze immediately. Rubbish IMO.
I'll try Lidl or Aldi as theyre German and obviously cater for German makes.
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Lidl screenwash: vapourware? - Bromptonaut
