Motoring Discussion > Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Zero	Replies: 66

Mon 31 Aug 15 11:10   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Zero

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34106225 I dont suppose anyone here has not been to the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu, and although I found it overhyped and slightly disappointing one would need to be churlish not recognise the guy who built it, and it has to be said, has done a lot to ensure the New Forest remains unspoilt. (for visitors that is - I understand its a PITA to live under his rule) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 11:15   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Dog

The ole woman went there decades ago. She enjoyed visiting the stately home. She says the cars were nice ... pah! what do women know about cars anyway, they all look nice, to them. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 11:24   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - sooty123

>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34106225 >> >> I dont suppose anyone here has not been to the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu, Can't say I've ever been, worth going to? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 11:34   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Bromptonaut

>> Can't say I've ever been, worth going to? Wouldn't go today as it will be heaving but its worth a visit when it's quiet. There's also a garage in the village that usually has interesting stuff on its forecourt. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 31 Aug 15 at 11:35 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 11:47   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Zero

>> There's also a garage in the village that usually has interesting stuff on its >> forecourt. Yeah, last time i was there it was a giant cow leaving a fresh steaming pat behind. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 12:00   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - sooty123

>> >> >> Can't say I've ever been, worth going to? >> >> Wouldn't go today as it will be heaving but its worth a visit when it's >> quiet. There's also a garage in the village that usually has interesting stuff on its >> forecourt. >> No plans to go today, or immediately but I might go if I'm ever down that end of the country. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 21:40   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - VxFan

>> Can't say I've ever been Me neither. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 23:16   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

>> >> Can't say I've ever been >> Me neither. I haven't been either. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 13:14   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

I always quite admired Lord Montagu. Not only did he go through all that ridiculous prosecution for homosexuality when he was younger, he always seemed to be prepared to stand up and fight for what he thought was right - whether that was the Middle East, Jazz, cars or British Heritage. Course, he wasn't always right, but that's no great offence. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 13:26   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Slidingpillar

He did an awful lot for the user of older cars, being for many years, the sole voice of them in the houses of parliament. In later years, he was the president of the FBHVC (federation of British historic vehicle clubs) and while they're not as good as they make out, the fact is, they are about the only consistent voice the old car movement has. The garage door closes. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 13:44   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

>> I always quite admired Lord Montagu. Not only did he go through all that ridiculous prosecution for homosexuality He and a couple of his pederast friends took advantage of some boy scouts camping on Montagu's estate, so it wasn't exactly a trumped-up case. In the more puritanical Britain of the time it was felt that as upper-class people they should be made an example of. Being young and naive at the time I was astonished to discover that car enthusiasts had sex at all, let alone tried one of its obscure and distasteful variants. I had always assumed that like one's parents, car enthusiasts were above that sort of thing. Of course pederasty and other practices seem quite usual now, although to me they will never seem quite normal. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 13:51   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

>>He and a couple of his pederast friends took advantage of some boy scouts camping on Montagu's estate, so it wasn't exactly a trumped-up case Unless you know something directly, then it was; Montagu: No I didn't. Prosecution: Yes, you did. And no conviction. Or perhaps that was a different incident, because the court case involved beach hut. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 13:59   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Dog

>>Of course pederasty and other practices seem quite usual now, although to me they will never seem quite normal. You and me both guv'nor. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:09   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

Pederasty is illegal, is it not? So I don't know why it would seem usual to you AC. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:13   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - sooty123

First time I read that, I thought Pedantry was illegal. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:20   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

Me too, then on second pass I wondered if it might be some kind of cycling offence. AC likes to use unusual words sometimes. Seems pointless and perhaps detracts from the message, but its what he does. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:40   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

Pederast isn't an 'unusual word'. Its specific meaning is one who has an erotic interest in adolescent boys. Pederasty was regarded as quite normal, indeed admirable, in ancient Greece for example where it was thought to give young men a bit of tuition in real life. So contrary to yr opinion FMR it has here a meaning which would be blurred or distorted by the use of some other term - 'queer' or 'homosexual' to take two examples. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:42   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

>>Pederast isn't an 'unusual word'. Yes it is. It also describes an illegal behaviour. And as I said, unless you know something additional directly, you are making an assumption. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:50   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

>> Yes it is. It also describes an illegal behaviour. Not that unusual. And its legality is neither here nor there. I don't know anything additional directly. I am making an assumption that was general at the time, and plainly accurate: they weren't fitted up, they got into trouble. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 14:54   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

>>and plainly accurate How's that then? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:14   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

They were rich guys who weren't of the usual 'jailable classes', and didn't expect any real trouble. The court case was very unfair: Lord Montagu was acquitted, or had no case to answer, something like that, essentially because he was a lord. His pederast pal Peter Wildeblood went down, because he wasn't. High Court Judges can be really terrible cynical old brutes. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:25   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

So you have no idea then. Just personal prejudice and rumour. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:28   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - CGNorwich

Actually Montagu got 12 months for homosexual offences. Wildeblood and Pitt-Rivers got 18 months. Montagu had earlier been acquitted of any offence against the school boys. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-468385/Lord-Montagu-court-case-ended-legal-persecution-homosexuals.html Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:43   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

Thank you CGN, but damn... how defective memory can be. I can't imagine why FMR is accusing me of personal bigotry against homosexuals. I've never seen other people's (victimless anyway) sexual leanings as anything to do with me. They can screw chickens like depraved Louisiana swamp rats for all I care. Not in front of my grandchildren of course. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:33   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Cliff Pope

>> : Lord Montagu was acquitted, or had no case to >> answer, something like that, essentially because he was a lord. He was jailed for 12 months for consenting homosexuality with an adult. Nothing to do with pederasty. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:53   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

>> 12 months for consenting homosexuality with an adult. Nothing to do with pederasty. Doesn't mean he wasn't up for some though. OK, he didn't get off, but he got off more lightly than his untitled pederastical friends. All this is faff rather. We weren't there, and these events took place, or didn't depending on your point of view, in a far-off country of which most of you know little. :o} Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 16:50   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

>>All this is faff rather That didn't seem to be your position when you were making definitive statements about the guilt of someone and the reasons he was not prosecuted or punished. Especially significant when it concerned the guilt of someone who has now died, and to whom that lack of guilt was especially important. The change of "relevance" would appear to be coincident with your errors in fact becoming obvious. >>We weren't there Surprising. From the way you were speaking so definitely I'd rather assumed that you were. Dib dib dib. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Mon 31 Aug 15 17:53   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

You can be quite a waspish pedantic small-minded twerp sometimes FMR. I doubt if the true reasons for it would do you much credit. Sting sting, nip nip, buzz whine, tchah! Reply to this message | Report message       6

Mon 31 Aug 15 19:40   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - No FM2R

I'll take that as you recognising your errors, just not quite able to admit them. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 19:46   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

Take it any way you like. You're entitled to be as wrong and silly as you seem. Reply to this message | Report message       5

Mon 31 Aug 15 15:26   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Slidingpillar

Although the word has more than one meaning, pederast comes from the Ancient Greek and just means 'boy lover'. The term ought not, but frequently is used as such, imply any sexual behaviour. The word, paedophile though is more than accurate as it means any adult with a sexual interest in children. The second homosexual trial is described here: tinyurl.com/ps85qh4 And what he was found guilty of and sent to jail for is no longer an offence and caused considerable protest at the time. It did however spark off the Wolfenden Report which after being sat on for a bit, decriminalised homosexuality. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 17:18   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - sooty123

>> Pederast isn't an 'unusual word'. Perhaps not to you, but I had to google it's meaning. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 20:45   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Lygonos

I seem to recall a couple of "pederast"s on Countdown from the 2 contenstants which Richard Whitely mumbled at and swiftly moved on. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 20:51   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Lygonos

Good Lord there's a wiki page with episodes! Memory not quite right - a winning 9 letter word tho: wiki.apterous.org/Episode_1382 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 31 Aug 15 23:26   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

The beat poet Allen Ginsberg boasts in his main work Howl of his 'wild cooking pederasty and intoxication'. Indeed all the beat writers, or most, had an overt pederastic bent, even the sinister but charming William Burroughs. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 1 Sep 15 00:45   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

'I kinda like boys,' Ginsberg told me the first or second time we met. It wasn't a pass, just information. He had the brains to identify a non-queer when he saw one. You can be a literary admirer or something like that without being avid for polymorphous sex, knowImean? And writers don't turn such admiration down. God knows they get little enough admiration from e.g. their starving families, not to mention the foul illiterate idiot readers. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 1 Sep 15 11:32   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Dog

Nice photo: www.express.co.uk/news/obituaries/602117/Lord-Montagu-motoring-car-enthusiast-peer-dies-aged-88 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 16:53   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Armel Coussine

Yes, nice gaff, and very nice RR Silver Ghost, but too smart and unmarked for my taste. I suppose it's OK since Lord M has a motoring museum rather than a simple personal collection. Those early Ghosts had some sort of trick cantilever rear suspension that made them very comfortable on bad roads. Lenin swore by them and used to buy them several at a time. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 16:58   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - R.P.

Hideously expensive admission prices, especially if it was only the motoring stuff you wanted to see. Makes ELO ticket prices seem remarkable value ! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:04   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Zero

>> see. Makes ELO ticket prices seem remarkable value ! Pfft once you have been to the original out of the blue tour at Wembley and seen the roof lift off the giant space ship with smoke and lasers as ELO launches into "Standing in the rain" there is no way on earth you would pay good money to see a pretend ELO. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:05   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - spamcan61

>> Hideously expensive admission prices, especially if it was only the motoring stuff you wanted to >> see. Makes ELO ticket prices seem remarkable value ! >> Like he said, I live 20 minutes drive away and I've been twice in the last 30 years. No discount via Clubcard or Nectar points either, last time I checked. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:10   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - R.P.

Never seemed to get round to it - we were down there in the Summer, so as this was part of my "Blue Peter" upbringing I just had to go, my wife blanched at the price, but I gritted my teeth...she sat it out in the MH ! Don't get me wrong a very good museum but certainly not worth the money Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:12   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - R.P.

The Top Gear exhibition was OK, but it all seemed rather sad and pathetic after the programme's ignominious end. If you'd have fired a gun in there you wouldn't have hit anyone Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:15   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Zero

>> Never seemed to get round to it - we were down there in the Summer, >> so as this was part of my "Blue Peter" upbringing I just had to go, >> my wife blanched at the price, but I gritted my teeth...she sat it out in >> the MH ! Don't get me wrong a very good museum but certainly not worth >> the money Been three times. Not sure why, its always been a let down. Over Hyped I think. The motoring museum at Gayden is much better, tho a bit BL biased! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:27   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - R.P.

Another one to check out. Put Beaulieu against Stonehenge. Parked for nothing....allowed to walk right up to the enclosure. Had to pay to go in but that is OK Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:42   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Old Navy

Glasgow has a good transport museum, the only thing that was not well done was putting the cars on shelves in the new building. I am a petrol (diesel) head and was not over impressed with Beaulieu and preferred the nearby Bucklers hard. www.glasgowlife.org.uk/museums/riverside/Pages/default.aspx Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 17:47   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - John Boy

I tried to visit the Beaulieu museum once. Despite arriving early in the day, the car park was already almost full and I couldn't face the long walk which that seemed to lead to. I decided to have a drive around the area instead and found the Sammy Miller Motorcycle Museum by accident. That was much more to my scale and I enjoyed every minute of it. It was interesting to see drip trays underneath many of the british bikes in there, but the lack of them under the japanese ones. Last edited by: John Boy on Thu 19 Nov 15 at 17:48 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 18:02   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - spamcan61

>> I decided to have a drive around the area instead and >> found the Sammy Miller Motorcycle Museum by accident. That was much more to my scale >> and I enjoyed every minute of it. It was interesting to see drip trays underneath >> many of the british bikes in there, but the lack of them under the japanese >> ones. >> Now that's only 15 mins. drive from Spamcan Towers; I've never been a motorbike fan, but did have an interesting couple of hours wandering round. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 18:09   Stonehenge - Slidingpillar

Another one to check out. Put Beaulieu against Stonehenge. Parked for nothing....allowed to walk right up to the enclosure. Had to pay to go in but that is OK I visited Stonehenge when I was about 10 or 11 (roughly 1969) with a school party. At that time, none of the present nonsense with fences, we could and did walk right up to and around the stones. Much better than now! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 18:39   Stonehenge - Crankcase

I was visiting a local but entirely unknown to me site last week which had attracted a pair of unlikely folk, one of who had a pendulum and one who was dowsing. We had a jolly good chat about all sorts of weirdly stuff, but when it got to Stonehenge they pulled faces. Turns out real Pagans aren't impressed and don't go any more. Whether that's good or bad... The site, incidentally, has the highest ancient burial mound in Britain and contained some of the finest archaeological treasures ever found in Britain too. Bartlow Hills. Who knew? Not me till last week. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 18:57   Stonehenge - Robin O'Reliant

I went there sometime in the eighties. The only things I remember were some F1 cars on display and riding on the overhead mono rail. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:12   Stonehenge - R.P.

Anglesey being an Island of druids - has quite few...Like the Druids...The Romans spent a lot trying to subdue them Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:12   Stonehenge - Zero

>> The site, incidentally, has the highest ancient burial mound in Britain and contained some of >> the finest archaeological treasures ever found in Britain too. Bartlow Hills. Who knew? Not me >> till last week. I came across the ancient roman town of Slichester (Calleva Atrebatum) purely by chance, its amazing to stand against a 12 foot, nearly fully in tact Roman Wall and stand in a Amphitheatre in Hampshire. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 Nov 15 13:35   Stonehenge - Alanovich

>> I came across the ancient roman town of Slichester (Calleva Atrebatum) purely by chance, its >> amazing to stand against a 12 foot, nearly fully in tact Roman Wall and stand >> in a Amphitheatre in Hampshire. >> It's a great shame the local authorities don't make it more of an attraction. I love to take the dog down there for walks around the site, amazing place. But even locally very few people know it exists. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:14   Stonehenge - Zero

>> I visited Stonehenge when I was about 10 or 11 (roughly 1969) with a school >> party. At that time, none of the present nonsense with fences, we could and did >> walk right up to and around the stones. Much better than now! As a child, it was one of the stops (there were many, some planned - most not) on the way to devon and cornwall. Apparently I have peed against one of the stones. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:22   Stonehenge - Armel Coussine

>> Apparently I have peed against one of the stones. That would be the eaten-away one that has been broken and flattened? Some people have a lot to answer for. What a beautiful site Stonehenge is. There's a lot of this stone-age stuff all over Southern England and bits of France. Anyone who hasn't should take in Avebury, not far from the henge. As for Carnac in Brittany it's absolutely enormous in scale, much still unexcavated. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:32   Stonehenge - Bromptonaut

>> What a beautiful site Stonehenge is. There's a lot of this stone-age stuff all over >> Southern England and bits of France. There are multiple sites around Calanais which are neither Southern or English Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:47   Stonehenge - Armel Coussine

>> There are multiple sites around Calanais which are neither Southern or English What? You've lost me again Bromptonaut. In my hitching days Stonehenge was a landmark, more than half way from London to Bath and wonderful and lowering in itself. A couple more A4 townlets to go, then Corsham and the long descent into Box opening the last lap. When I started to get cars I tried to kill myself at every hazard from London to Bath. Can't imagine how I failed... bit wimpish probably. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:35   Stonehenge - CGNorwich

Callanish on the Isle of Lewis is a magical place. Truly atmospheric Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 19 Nov 15 19:57   Stonehenge - Armel Coussine

>> Callanish on the Isle of Lewis is a magical place. Truly atmospheric Ah, right, sorry, northern sites. There must be a lot. I wish more was known about those neolithic times. Archaeology is all very well but there's no substitute for sheaves of paper, stone tablets (or whatever) from the quills or chisels wielded by hacks of the period. Call me dissatisfied by all means. I am. Documents, that's what we need. What a bunch of damn illiterates our forebears were. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 19 Nov 15 22:14   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Rick O'Shea

>> Pederasty is illegal, is it not? >> >> So I don't know why it would seem usual to you AC. >> Pederasty means having a foot fetish doesn't it? Weird but not illegal ;-)) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 Nov 15 17:04   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Ted

Never felt the need to visit Beaulieu...always seemed to look a bit clinical from books I've seen. When I visited my cousin in Rugby, he took me to the Coventry museum whilst the girls shopped. Much more to my liking...lots of interesting stuff........not presented as if they were doing a photoshoot for some glossy mag ! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 Nov 15 18:09   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - John Boy

I enjoyed the Coventry museum too, Ted. Your assessment is spot on as far as I'm concerned. When I came out, I asked a young woman if I was at the right bus stop to get to the park 'n' ride. She confirmed it and walked off to another stop. I saw her looking at her iPhone and, a minute later, she came back and told me what time my bus would arrive. I left Coventry feeling okay with the world! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 Nov 15 18:19   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Zero

Must be more than one Coventry. The one I went to had a motor museum that was tiny and boring, the shopping was awful, and the people incomprehensible. Somene had even stolen the roof off the cathedral. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Nov 15 at 18:20 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 Nov 15 19:50   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Crankcase

Maybe you'd have enjoyed it more if you had gone voluntarily rather than being sent... Reply to this message | Report message       6

Fri 20 Nov 15 19:58   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - Zero

At least being sent would have been a mitigating factor. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 20 Nov 15 23:21   Beaulieu motoring collector Lord Montagu dies - R.P.

And maybe riding in on a horse naked in a strange homage to Lady G may have thrown them Reply to this message | Report message       2