I've had a Honda Accord estate (55 plate, diesel) for 4 years now, and I love it (well, that's a bit ott, it's a car, but...). I drove up to Manchester last Friday without stopping; and back again without stopping. 4.5 hours behind the wheel, and fresh as a daisy at the end of the journey. I do about 6k miles a year, many of them around inner London, so it doesn't get used much. It does 45mpg long-term average, including London stop-start faff, and that means the tank is filled once a month. It probably costs me 20p a mile, all-in, including depreciation. Bargain. I really don't want to change it.
But, I'm vaguely thinking about something bigger to get more stuff in. Ideally an Accord with an extra 1 foot of height. Budget 2k-3k tops. Any ideas?
I don't really want a 4x4; that's just silly. I don't really want anything that's not Japanese. Something like the Berlingo or Multipla, but those have both been banned on aesthetics grounds (and they're French and Italian, so no good anyway). And the Nissan Cube gets no votes, sorry.
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Are mpvs out of the question? What are you moving that needs an extra foot is it often or not? Is hiring van an option?
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Nissan Stagea.
Lots of vrooooom in those.
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4x4s may look roomy but they often aren't, because the transmission hardware and bulky wheels and suspension necessitate a high floor as well as a high roof. Silly, I agree.
My nomination for more stuff than an Accord would be a Ford S-max: surprisingly good to drive and very comfortable to sit in, if you avoid the povvo LX model with its flat seats. There used to be a five-seat model - with a lower, sliding load floor in place of the third row of seats that I'm guessing you don't need - although finding one used may be a challenge.
Second thought: would a Honda Stream, if you can find one, be all that and Japanese too?
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 17 Aug 15 at 10:46
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Oh Deep joy, rarely get the chance to drop the
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507265519153
Mazda Bongo into the conversation
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>>4x4s may look roomy but they often aren't,
I think most of them are. Certainly any I drive / have driven are.
Agreed on the S-Max. Very useful car, although not that Japanese.
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>> Second thought: would a Honda Stream, if you can find one, be all that and
>> Japanese too?
>>
I don't think the Stream was all that big.
You need the Honda Shuttle or Odyssey.
Bongo is a great shout - who could't find a use for one?
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How about a mazda 5? Plenty of space and a few about perhaps easier to find than some of the Hondas.
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MM might share my suspicion of a family wagon named after a journey home that took ten years.
};---)
Mazda 5 is a lot shorter than an Accord. Might match it for space but I doubt it would beat it.
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Late plate Honda FRV? Five adult sized seats, six at a bit of a push, plus as much load space as the Accord provided you get a dog guard or cargo net.
2.2 diesel is the same as the Accord and CRVs, or else look at the 2 litre petrol for lower mileage use. I believe the chassis has much in common with the last-model Civic hatch. Its noticeably shorter than an full-size estate, but not so wide as be awkward in city streets or standard width parking bays.
I can confirm, having driven our 1.7 petrol to south west France and back, fully loaded with roofbox and five passengers aboard that the car is perfectly comfy for long runs, but needs a bigger engine for enough ooomph to haul the load without excessive engine noise intruding.
One suggestion: parking sensors would be worth having. The window line slants from back to front along the car, so judging whether you are close to obstacles parallel to the car can be tricky. And the rear hatch's window is high and curved, so there's some distortion as you look out the rear.
If the spec is a concern, the higher spec ones are easy to spot in adverts - they're the ones with factory-fit roof rails.
Edit: We were really looking for a Multipla when we bought the FRV (we needed six seats and room for the dog) but all the ones we saw were tired or neglected. Hondas of the same age seemed to attract a more careful type of owner...
Last edited by: Gromit on Mon 17 Aug 15 at 11:35
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The Stream was long but narrow - think of a taller, elongated last model Civic, with two seats in the boot. Not many of them, or the Shuttle/Odyssey, about I don't think.
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Either an S-Max, as suggested by WdB, or a Skoda Superb estate, would probably give you a little more height than the Accord: and their slightly sloping tailgates mean a wider opening than the vertical one that you have on the Accord, or on the Volvo V70. If you do 6k a year, go for petrol power.
This is assuming that your budget is 2-3k plus what you get for the Honda. If it's the total spend, you could seriously consider keeping the Accord and hiring a Transit for the occasions when you need to transport bulk.
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Nice smoker that Alanovic, very nice.
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Honda CR-V? No idea of the price range, but the older models might be in there.
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>> Honda CR-V?
"I don't really want a 4x4; that's just silly."
Amen, Brother Map.
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>> "I don't really want a 4x4; that's just silly."
I don't own one myself, but I fail to see why they should be considered 'silly'. I'm sure that some people prefer the higher driving position, while others might feel happier with the additional grip of the 4WD, etc, etc...
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I certainly prefer the elevated driving position, the amount of room and the ability to carry stuff. Also there are places I go that one couldn't get to without a high clearance 4x4. In fact to some of them one is not allowed to go without such a vehicle.
>while others might feel happier with the additional grip of the 4WD
4x4s brake just the same as 2WD, something that I think gets forgotten. They are also pretty grim around bends on bumpy roads, on wet slippy tarmac and ice.
Which is not to say that they are not valuable, just not the cure all that some of the lunatic drivers seem to think.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 17 Aug 15 at 15:26
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>> I fail to see why they should be considered 'silly'.
They aren't silly at all. We were driven around for some time yesterday by the SiL in his 4 litre petrol Jeep Cherokee with auto transmission. Sounded good and went up steep main road hills accelerating like a scalded cat. SiL admits to 18mpg so it may well be about 15 the way he drives it.
Handling evidently not pin-sharp but perfectly all right, and fairly quiet suspension. Nice seats and interior trim. He wants to tidy it up and deal with a couple of minor scrapes and dinges, but it doesn't seem necessary. Nothing wrong with a bit of patina.
He's got a very handsome set of black alloy wheels with big knobbly tyres. He says the thing is great fun on wet roads and carparks, controllable oversteer available on tap at all times. But apart from a liking for proper American jalopies, he got it because he thought the middle daughter and their nippers would be safer in something big and strong, being delicate dainty little things. I was afraid the daughter would be lethal in it but she seems to have learned how to manage the thing.
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They are silly for the OP because he lives in Central London and does not need any of their capabilities. He is being supremely sensible.
I'm sure it's an eminently sensible choice if you live up a dry river bed in Chile or a wadi in Oman. The OP does not.
That's all.
He doesn't need nor does he want a 4x4, he is explicit about that, why suggest one?
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"He doesn't need nor does he want a 4x4, he is explicit about that, why suggest one?"
Because MM does want more load space than his Accord, he doesn't want the vehicle to be bigger than his Accord and he does seem happy with Hondas. The CRV does all of these - it just also happens to have part-time 4WD.
As it happens, The FRV I suggested does all these things too, but is 2WD. Its also wider than the CRV, as tall, and so a diesel version will probably fare no better in the MPG stakes...
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4x4s brake just the same as 2WD...
No, they don't. The 2wd vehicle will take less stopping because it's lighter. But yes, go-anywhere is one thing (although MM is a long way from the Andes, or even the Alps, on his route from, er, 'Ampstead to Altricham); stop-anywhere quite another.
As for AC's spawn-in-law and the safer-in-a-truck myth, if rolling eyes could make a noise, you'd have heard mine in Chile.
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>No, they don't. The 2wd vehicle will take less stopping because it's lighter.
I expect you knew exactly what I meant - all vehicles brake with 4 wheels
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>> As for AC's spawn-in-law and the safer-in-a-truck myth,
There's no need to exaggerate WDB. Yes, anyone can get hurt in any vehicle obviously.
But a Jeep Cherokee despite truck-like characteristics isn't a truck, it's an American SUV and perfectly safe if driven sanely. Indeed the non-Grand Cherokee looks lower, wider and more stable than most SUVs, although that appearance may be misleading.
Is the expression 'spawn-in-law' meant to cause a small amount of offence WDB? That would be most upsetting.
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Is the expression 'spawn-in-law' meant to cause a small amount of offence WDB?
Not at all, AC; it's just a word I use occasionally as an alternative to the bleedin' obvious, just as you tend to refer to non-feline life forms as 'cats'.
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>> an alternative to the bleedin' obvious, just as you tend to refer to non-feline life forms as 'cats'.
Heh heh... oh good. Just as I thought really.
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>>and the safer-in-a-truck myth
Its probably true that if you will be in a collision involving two similar vehicles, you would be better off having an accident with a pair of modern smaller cars.
But since you are most likely to have an accident between two dissimilar vehicles, seems to me that you'll more often be safer if you're in the bigger vehicle.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 17 Aug 15 at 16:09
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"I don't really want a 4x4; that's just silly."
I've got one. Smaller than my other car, more economical than my other car, door mirrors the size of a magazine, so much easier to enter and exit after breaking 6 vertebrae, same applies to filling it and emptying the shopping, no lip at all. 4WD fitted with winter tyres and it snows 3 months a year.
Silly I didn't buy it years ago.
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And apart from the 'snows 3 months a year' comment, everything I said benefits me in Central London, Manchester or Warsaw.
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That's great, Dave.
How many broken vertebrae does the OP have, I wonder?
He. Doesn't. Need. A. 4. x. 4.
Can everyone draw a line under it and maybe suggest some large Japanese estate cars/van type vehicles please? That's what MM is after. This thread is about his needs, not everyone else's perversions.
Cheers.
I've come up with Nissan Stagea and Bitsomushi Space Thingy so far.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to hunt down a specialist importer, there may be models available direct from Japan which were never sold here.
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>> Calm down dear.
>>
Cooler than a penguin's cold bits, NF.
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Be reasonable, Vić. We now know that a 4x4 is the obvious choice if you have (a) 3 months a year of snow to make it look useful, (b) a painful but rare back injury to make it look comfortable, and (c) a 4-litre petrol V8 to make it look economical. Just tick those three boxes and pop down to the dealer now.
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>> Silly I didn't buy it years ago.
What is it BBD? Some sort of Subaru? Range Rover?
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Like others, I find it would help to know what 'stuff' MM wants to carry that needs the extra headroom. A bike?
Whatever is being carried the foot higher but implicitly in the same footprint thing is slap bang in van derived car (vdc) territory. But the OP rules such vehicles out on grounds of (a) aesthetics and (b) the origin of such vehicles in France or Italy. Trouble is the Japanese and other far east manufacturers don't even do the vans from which such a car might derive. The cars that do fit he bill, eg Honda Accord CRV/FRV look a bit like vans anyway.
You know a Berlingo will do the job MM, petrol versions are cheap as chips too. You've just got to bite the bullet.
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*I* would have a 'lingo. Powers that be would not. The Mazda Bongo has just gone down like a lead balloon too.
I doesn't have to be Japanese, of course, that's a ridiculous prejudice of mine. Now, the Space Wagon, that might work.
What am I carrying? Well, things, really. All sorts of things, and the Accord would be better if it were taller.
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Grandis might be a good call, if you can bear the racket from the (VW) diesel engine. All those seats take up a lot of space when folded, though, and it's not especially tall for something MPV-ish, so it's questionable whether it would hold usefully more than the Accord. Ask Zero about parts prices too. I liked the S-max better when I was looking for a family bus and I still think it would be a better bet for you now.
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>> *I* would have a 'lingo. Powers that be would not. The Mazda Bongo has just
>> gone down like a lead balloon too.
>>
Time to man up and tell her who wears the trousers! A Berlingo or a Bongo would be ideal!!
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The S-Max is a good call (we've got one) but I think you will struggle to find a decent one at the budget.
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Does anyone else know what BBD's 4WD is? He hasn't told me.
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Lexus, I think. Might even be a hybrid.
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Thank you Alastairw. He's probably said so here but I don't remember it.
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>> I doesn't have to be Japanese, of course, that's a ridiculous prejudice of mine.
Ah. If only you'd asked last week, I had a loverly SAAB estate for yer, guv'nor.
Merc E class then, that'll solve the image problem you hint at the breadkife suffering from. Best and least rusty W210 you can find.
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I've already got an estate car...
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Maybe, but an E will hold more. More than an Accord, more than a V70 (sorry Pat), more than an A6 - just more. We bought a pair of roof bars to go with ours, to take the Thule box that we'd been in the habit of taking on our four-up, kitchen-sink summer trips. Never used 'em; everything (bar the bikes) goes inside, with height to spare.
And, if anything, the boxier S210 (W210 is the saloon) is even more commodious than my S211.
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"How many broken vertebrae does the OP have, I wonder?"
No idea, haven't read the first few posts.
"He. Doesn't. Need. A. 4. x. 4."
I. Didn't. Recommend. Anything.
"This thread is about his needs, not everyone else's perversions."
It is of course, spiced up with conversation, chat, humour, characters, fun, irony, poking fun and especially perversions. Without that I wouldn't visit. Mapmaker, I recommend you go for the Mazda Bongo (it folds out into a double bed) but check for assprints on the roof lining.
Yeah, it's a Lexus and I don't like it that much to be honest, but it ticks all the boxes at the moment. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of cars that don't tick my boxes, but you'll never, ever hear me moaning about other guys driving them or urging them to confirm with my beliefs.
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FRV has similar footprint to a Civic, just more height and a smidge wider.
Very versatile - decent boot 6-up (around 400-450 litres) and small van style when seats folded (2 front passenger seats fold flat for longer loads)
1.8 petrol auto (140PS 5spd slushbox) mixed driving returns us 34mpg (high 20s in town, high 30s on cruise at 70mph) -diesel manual 10mpg better I expect.
Unlike S-Max has a (space saver) spare which I have needed twice in over 75000 miles.
Just measured it - 236cm from dash to inside of bootlid, 137cm wide boot/cabin, 100cm from load floor to ceiling. Some small degree of intrusion from rear suspension/wheel arch in boot.
(My 2000 Forester is 230 x 130 x 81cm, although it has a better opening boot and a full sized spare - the FRV is noticeably bigger for loading up with boxes on removals duty)
I expect an Accord estate may actually be very similar to these figures.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 17 Aug 15 at 20:41
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S211 is 290 x 132 x 77. Just, y'know, sayin'.
};---)
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I have the perfect solution for the OP. Tall estate car/MPV type thing. Nice and cheap. 'Designed' by famous British car designer. But for some reason the swear filter won't let me post a link to a photo of it. The car?
A Ssang-Yyong Rodius
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Mon 17 Aug 15 at 22:22
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Quite common here. Quite a nice car, but a little odd looking.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SsangYong_Rodius
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>> but a little odd looking.
Is that chilean for "pig ugly"?
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Similar to saying 'the Taliban are a little behind the times on women's issues'.
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It's not Japanese, a couple of years ago Vauxhall were giving away the Zafira for less than £10k. A 1.8 or 2.2 petrol will be juicier than the Honda but shouldn't break the bank for 6k miles/year.
There will be some horrors, a quick scan on autotrader shows a good few relatively low mileage cars in budget.
You will not get an S-Max in budget.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 18 Aug 15 at 09:24
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I confess the Zafira feels like an obvious choice. I just don't think that it will be as long as the Accord.
Quite taken by the idea of the Spacewagon somebody linked to earlier.
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It wasn't entirely clear from your first post, MM, but are you thinking of this as a replacement for the Honda or as a complement to it?
Judging by the defeated expressions of those who drive theirs through the down-at-heel west-London borough I work in, I can't imagine a Zafira capturing your heart the way the Accord has. If it's just an occasional need for extra load space in a car you're otherwise happy with, wouldn't a roofbox be a better bet than a whole car? Come to think of it, I have one doing nothing right now...!
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>> It wasn't entirely clear from your first post, MM, but are you thinking of this
>> as a replacement for the Honda or as a complement to it?
Replacement. I only need one car.
>> Judging by the defeated expressions of those who drive theirs through the down-at-heel
>>west-London borough I work in, I can't imagine a Zafira capturing your heart the way the
Quite. I mean, I don't really care much about cars, but that Accord makes me realise (as did its Legacy predecessor, as in fact its A6-shape 100 predecessor-but-one, and indeed its W123 predecessor) why cars can capture the heart.
Driving a Zafira seems to be the end of life. Likewise a Galaxy - either you're PM Blair, or you're a minicab driver.
It's the problem with this question: the solution is something that's a minicab. And, no, please no. Or a 4x4, which is, frankly, a bit on the silly side for what I want from a car. And they're not really that capacious given their huge size.
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How often do you carry these objects, weekly monthly? Would a trailer of some sort work?
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No. Not things suitable for a trailer; I've nowhere to keep a trailer. No. Just no!
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>> Quite taken by the idea of the Spacewagon somebody linked to earlier.
>>
Or if you want Japanese AND diesel, search for the Toyota Previa. There are a few diesels about.
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The Previous is a big car. Haven't seen one for a while though, is it a while since they were made?
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Toyota also used to offer the slightly less bulky Picnic, which looked to be based on the Avensis; a neighbour of ours used to have a green one. Removable seats, too, I think, which would add van-cred.
Or - and I can't believe no-one has yet suggested this - you could have a Renault Espace.
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>> Toyota also used to offer the slightly less bulky Picnic, which looked to be based
>> on the Avensis;
There was also a later Toyota MPV actually badged Avensis - Avensis Verso. Thusly:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201503282141191
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Ah yes, the Avensis Verso. My neighbour's car was one of those, not the (slightly) quirkier-looking Picnic. That one is £2,000 - for a 14-year-old car!
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WDB, you think that's a lot; this one is £5000 for an 11-year-old-car
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507155219450
Seriously!?
I'm a bit of a convert to leather seats, I've just realised. Not sure why...
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That one is £2,000 - for a 14-year-old car!
>>
2 grand ain't what it used to be.
Try buying a second hand car anywhere else in Europe outside the UK. They'd bite your hand off at that price and think they'd robbed you.
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True. I remember my Danish colleague's astonishment when I told him what I'd paid for my then-3yo LEC. He quoted me a price for a well-used Mondeo that would have bought a new E in the UK.
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2 grand ain't what it used to be, perhaps. Thirsty, mind, but going with your previous suggestion this is pocket money for a 'proper' car of similar age: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507235427544
Bet you wish you'd bought that, not your poxy Volvo...
This is more sensible maybe:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508045773416
Haven't had a Merc for a decade...
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Those both have serious, serious miles on them.
I'll stick with the poxy Volvo thanks.
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>>Those both have serious, serious miles on them.
Cos of course cars with lower miles don't go 'phut'... Just sayin', like...
The Accord has done 160; 140 when I got it. No reason not to take it to 200 (by which point diesels will be illegal in London anyway).
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>> 2 grand ain't what it used to be, perhaps. Thirsty, mind, but going with your
>> previous suggestion this is pocket money for a 'proper' car of similar age: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507235427544
>> Bet you wish you'd bought that, not your poxy Volvo...
>>
>> Haven't had a Merc for a decade...
>>
.... and that one's a V8. Mmmmmm
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Here's a Previous for ya, Mapster:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507255503547
The middle and rear seats are fully removable when you need to use it for loads.
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My Californian friends have a new third generation Previa, the Sienna. All wheel drive, 3.5 V6. Perfect for transporting four dogs, two hard shell kayaks and two inflatable kayaks with four passengers in comfort. Ideal for taking 6 keen skiers up to Tahoe resorts for first tracks in winter with all their kit.
Referred to as ' mini vans' over there! You could fly a drone around the interior. They never let me drive it though...
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You'll need to try the load in any car you look at, when it comes to it.
I had a double bed base to move that split in two; the Legacy couldn't take them because they snagged the surround of the rear hatch, but cleared the hatch in the FRV. Other loads fall foul of the FRV's curved rear hatch but tuck into the Subaru ok...
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I don't know what you're carrying, but would a large and removable roofbox help?
(be quiet Al, I know he didn't ask for a roofbox but its not a 4x4 and it might be a good idea)
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>>>I don't know what you're carrying
Bet we'll never find that out.... but it is pertinent. My old 5-series will carry an utterly staggering amount of stuff once you've folded the rear seats, moved the passenger one right forwards, packed the rear footwells, the remaining space in the huge spare wheel well, filled the side "cheek" spaces in the load area, piled it to the roof lining in the loadspace... and self levelling rear suspension makes it effortless.
... but if something is that little bit tall and needs to stay upright my daughters otherwise smaller Jazz is better.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 19 Aug 15 at 13:27
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>>... but if something is that little bit tall and needs to stay upright my daughters otherwise smaller Jazz is better.
Spot on.
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There are clues here: Upright...Jazz...is it a double bass?
};---)
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An upright double bass would require a high-roof transit. They lie down very happily.
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It could be a kettledrum, or even a drum-kit.
Years ago (about 1980) when I sang with the Bach Choir, we were invited to sing a carol concert at Wormwood Scrubs (to a captive audience). We needed to take three kettledrums, and some of us volunteered to transport them from the Royal College of Music.
One went comfortably into my Renault 20 and we thought the other two would fit into a Volvo 240 estate. Sadly no - the vertical tailgate (as with Mapmaker's Accord) was too narrow. We got one more into the Renault 20, and rather than do two trips, a grand but charming titled lady with a brand new Renault 5 suggested we try her car. The drum went in.
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Ah, the demands of music on motoring. My childhood transport was a succession of Renault 12 estates, chosen not so much for the comfort of the family as to accommodate my dad's near-2m contrabassoon case. (He eventually inherited a few quid and spent it on a more modern instrument that was coilier but shorter, and fitted across the back seat of an Austin Maestro. A mixed blessing, you might say.)
A friend today is a non-parent and about 5'2" on tiptoes, but drives an Octavia estate because she's the drummer for a big (in numbers) jazz band and needs something that size to carry her kit.
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What did you decide, MM? Or did you decide not to decide?
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>> What did you decide, MM? Or did you decide not to decide?
To defer the decision... To window shop when driving.
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...to window shop when driving
Like this, you mean?
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6104619/Man-drove-Rolls-Royce-into-Tesco.html
Apparently it can happen if you're new to driving an automatic.
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>>...but drives an Octavia estate >>
A cracking vehicle...:-)
Looking at the new Skoda Superb today - the company has certainly sharpened up the styling, especially at the rear. A lot of car for the money, although way too big for me...:-)
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Very low emissions for such a large car, though. I wonder how they do that?? ;-)
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Maybe a good day for a deal on one, or leave it a week for the tumbleweed to accumulate on the forecourt. :-)
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A bigger car? - sooty123
