Recently a BBC Watchdog episode (not available in iPlayer anymore I think) featured that Hyundai ix35 diesel cars are suddenly losing power.
The root cause is yet to be acknowledged by manufacturers but it is widely believed that in cold weather, diesel becomes gel like which clogs the filter and engine shuts down due to lack of fuel. It was also mentioned that it happened in many other different make of cars.
I took interest in the story because several owners of Kia Sportage 1.7D were affected too (and I am contemplating Sportage/Carens as my next car, which uses exact same engine).
End of last year Kia started fitting a modified fuel filter but as per RAC/AA that didn't solve the issue! Apparently, 2.0D Kia/Hyundai engines are not affected - only the 1.7D is having trouble.
I asked my 2 nearby Kia dealers but they are not able to confirm whether the problem has been fixed for sure!
Any Sportage/ix35 diesel owners here who faced this issue?
I am in a dilemma whether to avoid diesel altogether because of this. Fuel filter, DPF, DMF - diesel cars seem to have no end of problems. As per various forums, fuel filters are not warranty items and Kia/Hyundia sometimes show goodwill gesture sometimes not.
Sometimes ignorance is a bliss. If I were not aware of car forums, probably wouldn't have been worried :)
|
Watchdog is a (not very good) entertainment program very short on real facts. Given that I would ignore everything it says.
During winter, buy good quality diesel fuel, it was good advice 30 years ago and it is now.
|
>>Watchdog is a (not very good) entertainment program very short on real facts
Absolutely. Sensationalist rubbish.
|
>> Recently a BBC Watchdog episode (not available in iPlayer anymore I think)
It is on the Watchdog website though.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5nsP3NBcyQBkcxDY2HQ8GMz/hyundai-fuel-filters
And also on youtube.
youtu.be/YmFif8cbm8s
|
>> buy good quality diesel fuel
The problem is not confined to supermarket fuels only. Cars with Shell/BP/Texaco/etc. diesels suffered same fate.
|
|
Because of potential DPF problems etc a friend of mine resolutely refuses to change his P reg A4 1.9 Tdi estate. He only drives 5k pa but won't get a petrol. He prefers the driving characteristics of a diesel, and it must be FWD. Maybe Mr Movilogo there are new diesels out there which don't have a DPF fitted. Personally I'm sticking to petrol, given my low annual miles and addiction to high revving engines.
|
Nothing to do with DPFs.
The emissions light came on in the Outlander in mid-January 2013, two days before it was in for a service anyway so I got them to look at it then. They diagnosed a blocking fuel filter, which was due for replacement anyway, and I have had no problems since then.
I put it down to waxing or clouding rather than muck, no coincidence that it happened in January after a couple of hard frosts.
I'd take the statement in the BBC link above at face value, which I don't usually with car manufacturer's excuses - e.g. VAG's typical response, after ignoring complaints for as long as possible, which is "there is no problem, it's not our fault, and we are making some modifications so it won't happen in future".
If you live in Arbroath and you are worried, you might try something like this - Miller's cold flow additive - I'd check with Millers first that it is suitable for cars with DPFs, as it's marketed to commercial vehicle operators.
​r.ebay.com/s6S9q7
|
Working closely with some of the biggest independent refineries and fuel suppliers over the last few years, it seems that most fuel comes from a limited number of refineries / depots which are used by most of the forecourts. Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda, Esso, etc. etc. are often all from the same source with a few detergent type additives.
Ethanol is added to diesel fuel as a Govt. requirement.
The problem with some diesel cars is down to the fuel filter being clogged. Warming the filter tends to stop the problem and I believe the aforementioned manufactures have made the appropriate changes to their vehicles.
|
This is from other forum, where you can see official response (not that encouraging) from Kia
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=102219
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=107876
Last edited by: movilogo on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 11:28
|
The stuff written in those posts is a nearly as bad as that on Watchdog when it comes to unbiased factual reporting.
|
An old story from a couple of years ago, beleived to have been caused by a poor quality batch of imported Russian diesel fuel.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10511156/Motorists-warned-over-bad-diesel.html
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 12:47
|
I have an ix35 but it is the 2 litre diesel and apparently my engine has a different filter on it (maybe got a heater or something?).
There has been numerous issues with the waxing of the 1.7 diesels. My boss has had 2x ix35s, both 1.7 diesels, and both have suffered from this. On both occasions the car ground to a halt on the M74.
|
How can it be the car's fault if fuel is waxing?
It can't. It is the fuel maker's fault.
|
Combined factors probably...characteristics of filter, location of filter, location of tank, how long the car has been standing, ambient temperature, fuel characteristics and probably some more.
The first three of those are characteristics of the car - so there could be differences between models in the likelihood of this occurring.
Since my experience of the filter fault code in the Outlander, I have been using Shell V-Power - not specifically for that reason. No way of knowing if that has been a benefit in this regard, but it wouldn't be surprising if it had.
|
>> How can it be the car's fault if fuel is waxing?
As per Kia forums, 2.0D engine has a heater built in with fuel filter. 1.7D engine doesn't have this. Heater converts fuel from semi solid to liquid thus no problem.
|
It's still not necessarily the car's fault, is it? The oil companies are supposed to distribute fuel of a sufficiently low cloud point such that it doesn't happen in the anticipated operating temperatures.
Obviously there is less margin for error when temperatures are low. That some cars have a fuel heater provides some extra margin. Many of those cars may be offered in different markets where this is more necessary.
I suppose it's possible that "wind chill" evaporative cooling could be a factor IF part of the fuel supply line or tank is in a position where it gets wet AND it gets the slipstream. Any other theories?
Not the same thing at all, but we used to have a 1.8 CVH engined Sierra...it was very reliable but would nearly always lose almost all power on a long motorway journey after about 100 miles. A five minute stop and it was fine for the next 100 miles. I'm sure some of you have already guessed the cause.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 15:57
|
>> A five minute stop and it was fine for the next 100 miles. I'm sure some of you have already guessed the cause.
>>
We had an original FIAT Panda that would do the same on cold wet days, the joys of carburettors. :-)
|
>> >> A five minute stop and it was fine for the next 100 miles. I'm
>> sure some of you have already guessed the cause.
>> >>
>>
>> We had an original FIAT Panda that would do the same on cold wet days,
>> the joys of carburettors. :-)
Yes, it had something called a Pierburg, looked as if it came off a lawnmower. If anything it was worse on warm and humid days. Carburettor icing of course.
|
Happy memories :-)
I had a Renault 16 that used to have that problem on the A1 between Newcastle and Scotch Corner in the winter in the late 70s.
To be fair that was real winter weather up there, can't say I have seen anything like that in the soft southern parts where I have lived for the last 30 years.
|
>> Not the same thing at all, but we used to have a 1.8 CVH engined
>> Sierra...it was very reliable but would nearly always lose almost all power on a long
>> motorway journey after about 100 miles. A five minute stop and it was fine for
>> the next 100 miles. I'm sure some of you have already guessed the cause.
Carb icing as stated, my 1973 Mini 1000 had that issue, or in other temperature/pressure and engine type/installation conditions premature vaporisation in the fuel filter.
Our 1986 Cit BX 1.6RS was a bu**ger for the latter. Usually in hot weather/slow traffic but not always. Slight hesitancy followed by complete loss of power, clue was lack of visible fuel in the translucent filter. After five/ten minutes on the hard shoulder there'd be a sudden glug, glug when the vapour lock cleared and the filter refilled.
With luck though it was only very intermittent, not at 100 mile intervals.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 22:59
|
Much incorrect information in this thread so far but it is a genuine and relatively recent problem.
The AA and RAC have been collecting breakdown stats for the last two winters and supplying them to reps from the petroleum and motor industries together with suspect filters and fuel. So far as I know they have not yet managed to find the cause. However, there have been no changes to the basic diesel feedstock and cold weather additives so the finger has been pointing at the biodiesel which is a mandatory addition to all European diesel fuels.
|
I have the 2 Ltr diesel Sportage and also look in on the Sportage forum. Indeed there are numerous cases of the 1.7D cutting out sometimes in lane 3 on motorways. Modified filter housings seems to be the remedy.
Soon after I got mine it developed a slight hesitation just as it reached the 2000RPM mark. It went back but no problem could be found. They wanted it back again so they could attach some kind of black box for long term monitoring. Up to that time I had religiously filled up at a particular 'premium' station. I started to fill up at Asda and there has not been an issue since. Make of that what you wish. Whether there was some form of long term contamination in the tanks or what I don't know.
|
|
A nearby supermarket shut half their fuel pumps a while back. This was followed by an extensive tank cleaning operation involving waste fuel tankers and cleaning equipment. The other pumps were not affected. I suspect missfuling by a delivery tanker. I had not seen fuel retailers tanks being cleaned before this, and at the time wondered what was in the bottom of older tanks.
|
I remember suffering from waxing diesel in a Mk 1 Golf back in the mid-80s during a particularly cold snap on the M25. The fuel from the pumps was not winter diesel and driving at speed on the M25 (it was possible in those days) would wax the fuel. Pull over to the hard shoulder, let the warmth from the engine block thaw it out, and off I went again. For a few more miles when I had to stop and repeat the process. I wasn't the only one suffering.
In all the diesel cars I have had since then (almost all my main cars have been diesel) it has never been a problem.
|
|
Most modern diesels have fuel heaters-they were available for purchase in the 1980's and 90's.
|
|
My last four diesel cars have had electric filter heaters, before that my VAG cars had the fuel return (warm fuel) supplied to the filter.
|
Could it be diesel bug, a well-known problem in the boating world?
Bio-diesel is much more prone to it.
|
>>Could it be diesel bug
I think the description of the slime in the Transit tank either upthread or on the linked HJ thread sounds like that. More common in boats as you say, where I have seen it.
|
|
This filter blocking gel does not dissolve when warmed, so it is probably not temperature related.
|
I asked for an explanation from Kia and got following reply from their customer service.
It was bought to our attention that a number of Kia Sportages with the 1.7 diesel engine were suffering from this problem. Our investigations have identified that the cause of the problem is the 'bio' content (FAME) of the diesel fuel blocking the filter during cold winter conditions. European legislation dictates that all diesel fuel must contain around 10% 'bio' content.
Kia is not the only manufacturer to be impacted by this - we are also aware of other vehicle manufacturers having similar problems. The root cause is believed to be fuel quality, rather than a product defect.
We looked into ways we could improve our customers’ experience, and a modified fuel filter assembly has been produced – the fuel heater has been improved in this part to prevent the premature clogging of the fuel.
The risk of this issue returning once the modified part has been fitted has been significantly reduced.
We wouldn't replace the fuel filter as a precaution as it this doesn't affect every car, however, if you were to experience this issue and the modified part hadn't already been fitted to the car, this would be carried out at no cost to you.
|
Far too helpful and cooperative. Watchdog will never report that.
I've had no dealings with Watchdog but I did cross swords with That's Life. Now there was a lying, two-faced bunch of ignorant b******s who couldn't give a toss for the truth presented by a sanctimonious patronising ratbag overly impressed with her own relevance.
Thinking about it, that might be when I first went off the BBC.
|
I'm reminded of Henry Root's letters to Esther. From memory, in essence they went
"Dear Esther, I love That's Life and watch it every week".
He got a reply saying "Dear Henry, thank you so much for your letter. We read every one, and always reply personally. We are always pleased to hear from fans. All the best, Esther"
So he wrote again and said
"Dear Esther, you're a fat cow and your show's a disgrace."
And he got back "Dear Henry, thank you so much for your letter. We read every one, and always reply personally. We are always pleased to hear from fans. All the best, Esther"
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 12 Aug 15 at 15:23
|
>> Thinking about it, that might be when I first went off the BBC.
>>
That would be a bit like going off Mercedes Benz because the W210 was a bit rusty.
|
|
I was being flippant. If we ever have a beer together I can give you chapter and verse on the BBC. You'll probably kill yourself after the first couple of hours.
|
>> >>Could it be diesel bug
>>
Is that a VW Beetle TDI?
|
BBC Watchdog - diesel fuel filter problem - Zero
