So, the scores on the doors are in for the 9-5's recalcitrant gearbox.
Reconditioned gearbox, supplied and fitted by local transmission specialist, £1800 inc VAT, as correctly predicted by Zero himself. Virtual bun (sticky) awarded.
Second hand gearbox supplied by specialist SAAB parts supplier, £522 inc VAT, labour estimated at 5/6 hours, approx. £250, by local SAAB specialist garage, let's call it £800 all in as I'll want fresh transmission oil if I choose this option.
Trade in car for £500 at local used car dealer against a 2003 Lexus IS 200 auto, 80k on the clock, £1500 asking. With a view to using our Mazda as the main family car for a year and replacing the Lexus next summer with a 3-5 year old diesel auto estate of some kind as the main family wagon and keeping the Mazda as a second car (could well keep the Lexus at that point too if preferred, but I like having 2 estate cars with our family's needs and habits in mind).
I think I know which option I'm going to take.
What would you do?
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 22 Jul 15 at 10:47
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Unless you really want the Lexus (horrible thing, even new, if a friend's of that vintage is any guide) I don't see the benefit of option 3. Option 1 seems like too much to spend on such an old car unless you see it lasting another 2-3 years without further major repairs.
Which leaves option 2. What's the difference between 'reconditioned' and 'secondhand' in this context? Or is there an alternative option 3 with something other than the Lexus?
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>> Unless you really want the Lexus (horrible thing, even new, if a friend's of that
>> vintage is any guide)
Didn't it tend to come top of owner satisfaction surveys in its day? FWIW of course.
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True, they have a reputation for not going wrong, although this one is 12 years old. But the styling - outside and especially in - is awful, there's very little space and the ride is unpleasantly jiggly. Smooth - though not very powerful - 6-cylinder engine is a plus, but I still think it would leave you pining for your Saab.
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>> I still think it would leave you pining for your
>> Saab.
>>
Thing is, I wouldn't use it much. The Mazda would be the daily, and I like that very well.
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Secondhand means removed from a scrapped car, tested working and given a bit of a dusting.
Reconditioned means a box which has been taken apart and fitted with new gears and fully rebuilt as new.
Yes, your summary of option 3 is correct - the Lexus is just an example of finding a £1500 banger to use for a year as a second car. I like the Lexus though, what do you think horrible about them? Essentially, I'd probably look for something Jap/Korean with an auto box of course. So the Lexus seemed a decent choice. I'd rather avoid something totally bland like an Almera or Corolla, ideal would be a Mazda 6 but, erm, I've already got one. Howard and Hilda spring to mind.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 22 Jul 15 at 11:08
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Lexus - thirsty inline 6 engine with autobox will double your MPG.
Fine if it will do minimal mileage, but I would reconsider if not.
You almost didn't deserve a reply, being a Corolla owner (diesel at that) :p
One question would be, are you going to trade with the knackered gearbox?
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>> One question would be, are you going to trade with the knackered gearbox?
>>
Yes, the car drives and the gearbox warning light has turned itself off. It did, after all, get from Abbeville to St Jean de Monts and back to Reading and is still running adequately. I could, of course, continue driving it until it gives up entirely, and that might take a long time. But I don't like the idea with children on board most days.
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Does the saab auto box have many known issues, if not i think option 2 is the way to go. I agree with above option 3 isn't such a good idea. If you did option 1 or 2 would you still look to swap after a year or so?
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>> If you did option 1 or 2 would you still look to swap after
>> a year or so?
>>
Most likely. We will be in a better financial position next year in terms of cash flow and could get something nice around the £10k+ mark.
The autobox is an Aisin Warner 5 speed. Much like many other of its ilk in terms of issues I suppose.
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I'd be in the fix and keep camp. Large diesel automatic estate cars are after all the highest level of motoring karma. Anything less useful will always ultimately disappoint one day.
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Is it definitely a gearbox out job, it's not a dodgey solenoid?
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It started behaving like this about 6 months ago, warning lights and all that. I had a specialist look at it, he changed the fluid and also changed a couple of sensors and said suck it and see. If it reverts to previous behaviour, it'll need a new gearbox. That's the advice I've been given and I'm inclined to believe it. I think we've eliminated the cheap fix possibilities already.
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There is an option 4.
Finance a newer, more economical car. Such as a Peugeot 508SW 1.6 e-HDi. 60mpg will save me a tank of fuel each month, also the 30 quid a month VED. Have seen one priced at 7k, monthly payments on finance about £110-120. Which is about the same as a tank of fuel and a month's VED for the SAAB.
Option 5 would be Crankcase's electric Zoe.................not sure I can take that leap of faith.
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>> Option 5 would be Crankcase's electric Zoe.................not sure I can take that leap of faith.
>>
Me neither, today. Sticking with my lovely Volvo diesel this year and hang the expense. I'll save it somewhere else - like on broadband perhaps.
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Alternatives to the 508SW idea would be, at under £7k..............
Peugeot 308SW 1.6 e-HDi EGC
Skoda Octavia estate 1.6 TDi DSG
Citroen C5 Tourer 1.6 e-HDi EGC
Renault Megane 1.5 dCi Tourer EGC
VW Golf 1.6 TDI Bluemotion estate DSG
Not a chain cam to be seen....................
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Option 47
Swap Mazda to main family car
Switch Saab to secondary car, not carrying kids every day
Take out AA Recovery or similar
Drive Saab until it either breaks, or you have arrived at next summer.
Additional task;
Consider why someone would offer you £500 on a car with a duff gearbox, when they would also have given you £500 for the same vehicle without a duff gearbox. I'd guess there is a fix which is not a new gearbox.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 22 Jul 15 at 13:54
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>> Consider why someone would offer you £500 on a car with a duff gearbox, when
>> they would also have given you £500 for the same vehicle without a duff gearbox.
>> I'd guess there is a fix which is not a new gearbox.
I'm not going to say I'd be proud to do this, but as a trade-in it wouldn't be obvious there's a gearbox fault without the warning light. Dealers just tend to start it up and don't bother driving offered part-exs round.
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>> as a trade-in it wouldn't be obvious there's a gearbox fault without the warning light.
The trouble is, probably not obvious to the poor sap who buys it, either; which next time might be you.
I'd still consider keeping it though.
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>> Option 47
>>
>> Swap Mazda to main family car
>> Switch Saab to secondary car, not carrying kids every day
>> Take out AA Recovery or similar
>> Drive Saab until it either breaks, or you have arrived at next summer.
>>
>> Additional task;
>>
>> Consider why someone would offer you £500 on a car with a duff gearbox, when
>> they would also have given you £500 for the same vehicle without a duff gearbox.
>> I'd guess there is a fix which is not a new gearbox
I would guess the SAAB is worth 250 quid in break up value, and there is a 250 quid discount available if you didn't include the SAAB.
The SAAB will ticket for 1500 quid on a bomb site forecourt, a scrap box is about 500 quid fitted in the same bomb site, and there is 500 quid profit on it. There is a grand in it if you get in the electronics and disable the warning light and fill it with something other than transmission fluid.
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Cars are expensive anyway and all this juggling makes them more expensive as well as causing endless anxiety unless you are one of nature's dodgy car dealers.
If you have a car you are used to and quite like, just repair things like gearbox, transmission and suspension. It may cost an arm and a leg at the time but it keeps a good old jalopy going. You just know when it's time for the knacker. A lot of people jump the gun by months or years, to their cost.
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I am inclined to agree with AC and others above and get a repair done.
I do have one further wrinkle which leans me that way - I do hold a mechanical breakdown warranty for the car still, valid for a small amount of time still and will most likely cover me for 50% of the repair, if they validate the claim (long shot with these things I know, but my service records and all that are in order and the policy does cover wear and tear). £400 and it would be a no-brainer really. I've registered the fault with the warranty company and will take the car to the garage shortly.
Decision made I think.
Interesting that repair seems to be the majority opinion on here. Thanks.
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>> Decision made I think.
>>
>> Interesting that repair seems to be the majority opinion on here. Thanks.
Its not my choice, and I think you will regret it. I reserve the right to ITYS.
As i did with the laguna I think.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 22 Jul 15 at 16:32
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So what would be your course of action, Z? I don't think you have said. I presume it's "get rid"?
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yup. shed load of trouble round the corner, this is just the start, And you know you hate trouble.
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You know what, I am still considering the "rid" option. Nice looking (in the ad anyway) Mazda 6 auto has popped up at £1k reasonably locally. Well, in Surrey.
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Worth a look if it's a petrol: if it's a diesel, don't go near it.
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>> Worth a look if it's a petrol: if it's a diesel, don't go near it.
>>
Oh yeah, it's a 2.0 petrol, like my estate but the older trim style inside. Diesels are cambelt and there are no autos. Not to mention the other problems they are famous for.
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>> Nice looking (in the ad anyway) Mazda 6 auto has popped up at £1k reasonably locally.
Do check the rear wheel arches, Alanovic.
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It's Surrey, not Berkshire of course the wheels will be there
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...For the rust, not the empty space.
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>> It's Surrey, not Berkshire of course the wheels will be there
>>
Tolworth Cars, Chobham (or is it Cobham? The one near Leatherhead anyway). ever heard of them, Z? Reputation?
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 24 Jul 15 at 09:21
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My experience of looking at cheap cars at dealers is that they are all sheds. He's got to make a profit and cover his overheads, so you are looking at little more than a scrap value car. Expect mis matched poor tyres, patchy service history, broken trim, battle scars etc etc (broken gearboxes... :-) ). Or you might be really lucky and find a good 'un!
Last edited by: RichardW on Fri 24 Jul 15 at 09:53
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>>>My experience of looking at cheap cars at dealers is that they are all sheds
He's right... not been here lately to tell the gruesome tales but been looking for a car for youngest who passed her test 8wks ago... pretty much anything under £2500-£3000 at small dealers has been cack.
£1000ish cars at dealers are mostly scrappers with an MOT.
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>> >> It's Surrey, not Berkshire of course the wheels will be there
>> >>
>>
>> Tolworth Cars, Chobham (or is it Cobham? The one near Leatherhead anyway).
Its Cobham, home to your favourite guys from Welham Green Dog Track.
>> ever heard of
>> them, Z? Reputation?
Never heard of them, good or bad.
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If it were a Subaru, it might be worth throwing some wedge at it.
:}
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Re the Lexus.....several years ago my ex asked my advice about a mid sized estate. Knowing her preferences, I recommended a 2 yo IS SportCross 2 litre manual. She bought an 03 plate. Still has it and loves it to bits. Never had a single thing go wrong with it.
It is not particularly large inside, but if she wanted a large estate she would have bought one. Nor is the load space flat, but it has lots of toys, a smooth straight 6, lovely manual box and is totally rattle free after 12 years and almost 100,000 miles.
Downsides are it is thirsty. More so than my 330, and it has to be revved to get any performance out of the engine unlike my 330. She only does short journeys, longer ones in her partners A4 diesel estate, and rarely returns 30mpg.
It wouldn't do for me, but she refuses to change it for something newer. She thought about a new A3 TFSI but decided to keep the 12yo IS.
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Unless half ( at least) of the repair costs are covered by the warranty I would get rid
I had ongoing electrical gremlins many years ago with a H reg 9000S 2.3 turbo. After a few months I sold it to an auto electrician friend. Good riddance. Bought an ex lease L reg Eclass estate and moved on.
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I don't see the connection, LL - the badge? The 9000 and Vic's 9-5 don't have much else in common.
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Wouldn't be surprised if they shared the chassis in basic form due to GM's penny pinching ways - probably only that though - oh and "night panel".
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The 9000 is a 1980s design from long before the GM connection. It has more (but still not much because Saab didn't think the others were good enough) in common with the Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema.
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Yes, the 9-5 isn't a Saab, it's a commonplace midsize Vauxhall with a different badge.
POS actually compared to a proper Saab.
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>> It has more
>> (but still not much because Saab didn't think the others were good enough) in common
>> with the Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema.
>>
The Alfa 164 was the 4th in the group I recall.
I had one of the first GM 900s with the Cavalier/Omega 2.5 V6. A colleague ran an Omega with the same engine, the pair of them started smoking within a few hundred miles of each other just over the 74k mark. Both main dealer serviced according to schedules. My pocket was the lighter at never less than £500 a go in the 90's with 20% dealer discount (yeah right !).
SAAB makes running a Volvo 20 years later feel like running a budget super mini by comparison.
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That's rather my point, Gmac: the more Saab used GM parts the less it liked them and the harder it tried to Saabify the GM pig's ear. You'll remember that it dropped the V6 when the 900 became the first 9-3. I had one of each, both 2.0s, over a combined seven years and 80,000 miles and loved them; neither (Saab) engine ever gave a hint of trouble.
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Hang on, if we're going to spend money here, then why not..........
www.bulldogtwyford-subaru.co.uk/used-cars/4839587-subaru-outback-r-awd/
It's not an auto, there aren't any at this price point (nothing much under 20k, too rich for me). But still. Hmm.
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It's also got the least leathery-looking 'black leather' interior since I, erm, last saw something that wasn't leather at all.
If you really want to stand out, the same garage has this:
www.bulldogtwyford-subaru.co.uk/used-cars/4751686-mg-mg-3-3-time-vti-tech/
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 24 Jul 15 at 11:11
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I sat next to one in a traffic queue yesterday on the Caversham Road. Nice little motor. I prefer the 6, though.
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Seems a very capable all rounder on the face of it. Only downside is the keep fit transmission.
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Blimey, how nice is this for a second-car smoker for a year?
Wow.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507195331660
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And how much do the pictures of this beauty scream "do as you likey"? Seems a decent car, though. And the bloke's reflection in the back screen looks alarming like, erm, me.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507235427194
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I think i'd go for the newer car and some finance... and specifically the Skoda Octavia estate, 1.6 diesel.
I bought one for a customer and drove it back from Stafford to Devon at a fair rate of knots and couldn't believe the economy... the needle hardly moved.
Really nice car and sensibly priced.
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My brother had one of these 9-5 estates and also had auto gearbox problems. He had other problems with it and decided to get rid. I never particularly liked the car, to me it gave the impression of being a polished turd. I much prefer Ford - honest unpretentious workhorses.
The 900 he had before was excellent and years ago we had a 99 Combi something or other. Proper SAABs, what a shame it's all over.
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Try private ads, might be same quality of car but at least you aren't paying a dealers mark up.
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There must be some good ones around. Anyone buying the barge that I've owned for the past 13 years would have a darned good car for less than £1000.
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I think your dismissing the fact that Alanovic car has got north of 130,000 miles on it. He hasn't had it that long and that's the risk you buy. You don't buy an almost 12 year old extremely high mile car and expect to run a shoestring.
If he had bought it 3-4 years ago, he would have got very good use from it and it would and the brand be slated less.
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After 15 years I sold my Mazda Xedos 6 - no issues other than minor matters, bushes, anti-roll bar etc etc.
I sold "the best car I have ever owned" to a chap for £500 - he got 15 months & 20K miles and something went bang - he had not serviced it.............. Even if it had not gone bang 20K miles for £500 & 2 tyres is bangernomics - in my book.
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Time to ditch the Saab IMHO, but not to replace it with a similarly-aged vehicle with unknown history and pedigree. What's the expression: "Buy cheap, pay twice" or something?
With interest rates at historic lows (and won't be forever) I'd advocate HP or PCP on something new-ish under warranty that should give you at least 5 years good service.
It can be fun to change cars every 18-24 months, but less fun if they are old and unreliable and in any case the cost to change each time soon adds up!
Nissan sales are through the roof I read. Anything suitable in their range?!
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In reply to Woofster on the other thread, I changed the transmission oil last October, the old wasn't in too bad a state. Didn't smell, was brown rather than red though. I expect it was the original oil, I have no service records to indicate otherwise - the history is main dealer the indie after about 80k miles, so I expect it didn't reach the manufacturer's limit whilst in the dealer network, and it wasn't attended to by the indies (probably at penny pinching owner's request).
Car was in at the local indie SAAB specialist yesterday. The error code I have obtained is P1743, which may indicate a torque converter solenoid according to them internets. The bad news is that Warranty Co PLC don't want to know until the box has been removed, dismantled and the precise offending item identified. SAAB specialist gentleman does not disassemble gearboxes, he will only remove and fit a replacement one (£800 for part and labour, as a reminder). See a tranny specialist, says he. No charge, which is nice. An excellent fellow, really.
So off I went to Local Transmission Specialist PLC with the code to ask their opinion. Their answer was that they won't comment on the code and only want to perform their own diagnosis at a cost of 74 sheets plus VAT. Sigh. Bloke was a bit umpty too, not too much customer facing skills in evidence, par for the course really but attitude was in stark contrast to my friendly SAAB chappie.
I'll have them look at it, and if the cost of repair is going to be £1800 and 50% born by Warranty Co PLC, then I'll go for it I think. If not, then it's part exchange time as I'm not coughing up £1800 on it. Either a newish finance jobbie as a main car, or a sub-£1500 banger as a second car, promoting the existing Mazda to main car duties. Could also take NoFM2R's advice about running the SAAB until it explodes, but I think I'd rather get something out of it in terms of money whilst it's still a runner.
On we rumble.
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I had similar on a Volvo box.
People either wanted half a million quid to repair it or a million quid to replace it and refused to do any detailed investigation or share knowledge without significant money changing hands.
I may be wrong, but isn't the Volvo V70 box an Aisin box? I can't remember now, but it rings a bell. 55-50, I think.
I did eventually hunt around the internet, find out that one particular sensor was known for causing trouble, replaced it at a cost of £12 and 15 minutes and it was perfect for the next 50,000 miles that I had it.
Worth some digging around. I'm house/pet sitting tomorrow with sod all to do for the entire day, so if you want me to hunt about then email me the codes and details and I'll see what I can find out.
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Thanks for the offer, NF. There are two sensors on this box, they were replaced a few months ago by my SAAB geezer to see if that did the trick. It's kept the warning light at bay until the drive to France, but now it's back opinion is that the box is goosed internally. I think it's an AF55-50. A replacement gearbox would have to come out of another 9-5 2.2TiD due to bellhousing shape, according to the SAAB specialist, so I couldn't get one out of a Volvo for example.
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AW55-50SN was mine, apparently.
I appreciate the difficulty with bell housing shape (been there, felt that pain).
Everybody told me mine was fckude broken as well. It wasn't, it was the sensor. As you say, two of them and both easy to access.
I had a broken wire as well.
The combination of which would mean that half the time the gearbox functioned just fine, then suddenly with a slight thud it would go into limp home mode.
A gearbox man who was friendly suggested that a broken gearbox is broken and usually stays broken, it doesn't work sometimes. That this type of intermittent fault was frequently something bolted on or to the box, including the gearbox control module. (dirt cheap from a breaker, but you have to get the right one).
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Like Mark says, it could be something simple. Trouble is, intermittant faults are the hardest to diagnose.
The autobox in a Mk3 Cavalier I used to have started playing up. Turned out it was just dirty contacts in the selector switch housing on top the gearbox. It would only play up in cold and or damp weather. WD-40 initially solved the problem, but eventually the selector switch unit needed opening up to give it a proper clean.
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>>The autobox in a Mk3 Cavalier I used to have started playing up. Turned out it was just dirty contacts in the selector switch housing on top the gearbox. It would only play up in cold and or damp weather. WD-40 initially solved the problem, but eventually the selector switch unit needed opening up to give it a proper clean. <<
WD40 is an insulator, although the solvent properties may have had a short term cleaning effect, - you may have saved yourself some longer term grief by using a contact cleaner?
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>> WD40 is an insulator, although the solvent properties may have had a short term cleaning
>> effect, -
Yes, but it was primarily used to drive out any dampness from the electrical plug/socket connector. Its secondary purpose softened any dried or thickened contact grease within the switch selector housing.
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Were the auto trans merchants members of: www.fedauto.co.uk/
If you like the car enough, it's worth laying out £900 imo, I was prepared to spend £000's on the Sub if I needed a new/rebuilt box.
I like the Chileans idea: "the gearbox control module. (dirt cheap from a breaker, but you have to get the right one)".
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No, local guy isn't on that register, thanks for the tip. I've called the nearest one on the register following your post, and they've given me the same story. Full strip down needed to identify fault, then full rebuild is £1895+vat, which is dearer than Local Transmission Specialist PLC.
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>>full rebuild is £1895+vat
Have to be a Subaru to warrant spending THAT sort of money on it :}
Just checked my ATF = still crimson (King) and the level is spot on, like the engine oil.
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WRT "intermittent" faults, the warning light on the dash is intermittent (it comes on after a very hard change, on steep hills usually), but I can feel the gearbox slipping and juddering consistently, across all the gears. It feels particularly "snatchy/lurchy" changing down to second when gliding to a halt, and changing up to 4th most times.
It is only the severity of the hardest changes which light the warning light intermittently, so it's not an intermittent fault really.
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>> It is only the severity of the hardest changes which light the warning light intermittently,
>> so it's not an intermittent fault really.
In the trade its called a Bucked Fox. Or sum ink like that.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 30 Jul 15 at 15:12
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Autos are supposed to do it all for you in a seamless manner but a lot of them are fragile and notchy if not treated right.
The Median British Driver or MBD will ferret out the weaknesses of any device and check them regularly causing a bit more damage every time. Everyone's a bit clumsy sometimes but some make a point of being clumsy all the time. That will buck any fox in shortish order.
Old-style Detroit 3-speed slushpump transmission takes a bit of breaking though. Thirsty but reliable.
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At the time I asked on the BMW specialist forums when I was thinking about an old 5-series many commented it *had* to be an auto or "it wasn't a proper BMW" or "I wouldn't get the same refinement experience".
Over a year on the same forum is littered with posts about auto boxes failing with a £2k replacement cost... on a £2k car.
Auto boxes on older cars are a real lottery.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 31 Jul 15 at 09:35
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As are clutches and DMFs on older diesel cars, etc etc etc........
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It's of no help to you Alanovic, but to be fair I have had no problems with the auto box on my 9-5. The fluid was changed at 75k and 150k (earlier than the Saab recommended 90k). It's due for another but the fluid is still bright cherry red and I've had no issues at all. I won't bother changing it again, although the mileage is currently at c.227k but looks like it will be moved on unfortunately.
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Yeah, I expect mine just wasn't ever changed before I owned the car, and my change last year came too late for it, the damage was already done.
Like F says, old motors are a punt. I lost this one.
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Well well, what a surprise. The Local Transmission Specialist Ltd has reported that a full reconditioning of the gearbox is required, at 1800-1900 sheets inc. VAT.
Warranty provider to be contacted now, although LTS Ltd reckon they'll ask for the box to be fully dismantled and inspected before authorising anything. At which stage, if they don't authorise it, I'm left with the whole bill or a car with a gearbox all over the floor, and the abortive costs of dismantling.
I think we can see where this one is going...............it'll either be Mark's drive it till it breaks or, back to SAAB Specialist Ltd for a scrap box to be put in or a replacement banger. It's not going to be getting the recon box, is it?
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Aaaaaannnddddd............it's 400 sheets plus VAT to dismantle - with the expectation that the claim wouldn't be authorised. So I'll pick it up later.
I think I'll keep running as is for a bit, and set up an autotrader search for private sale autos in my immediate vicinity, max price £1500. If something wibbles my thrustlepouch, I'll go for it.
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Owls about : "the gearbox control module. (dirt cheap from a breaker, but you have to get the right one)". that the Chilean mentioned last week, avez vous given any more thought to that?
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No. The diagnostic code is only related to mechanical faults. The control module isn't the problem. It's burnt/worn clutches etc inside the box.
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If the clutches were burnt/worn, the ATF would be brown (ish) and smell burnt, like the stuff I drained out of my Foresters box 2.5 years ago; and, is still working perfectly okay today.
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>> If the clutches were burnt/worn, the ATF would be brown (ish) and smell burnt, like
>> the stuff I drained out of my Foresters box 2.5 years ago; and, is still
>> working perfectly okay today.
>>
I'll have another look at the fluid when I get it home. It was replaced last October, so if its brown and smelly now, that certainly indicates worn/burnt out components, right?
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I checked my ATF last week and it still has a burnt smell (very distinctive) and although it's still red, it's darker than fresh fluid, so the clutches are most definitely worn, but not worn out.
The other thing I've noticed with the box, is that it makes a certain noise when I put it into drive, not a loud noise, but I can hear it from 20 paces away. You probably wouldn't hear it on your Saab, being it's a diesel :)
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I found this very frustrating when I was dealing with mine.
I don't want the gearbox reconditioned, I want it repaired.
IMO they do no level of fault finding whatsoever. It doesn't work properly = we need to recondition it.
& £400 to take it apart is annoying, but lets say its fair (which it probably isn't). And thus £400 to put it back together again. So £800, but then plus £1,100 of new bits? I don't think so.
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>
>> IMO they do no level of fault finding whatsoever. It doesn't work properly = we
>> need to recondition it.
They either haven't the skills or not enough people are prepared to pay for them.
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These days I suspect the latter. For many years previously I suspect it was just easier and more profitable.
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Can't believe nobody has suggested this...
Alanovic, meet Mike H. Mike, Alanovic. Mike is getting rid of a 9-5 wagon very soon, any parts you can plunder perhaps?!!
:-)
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I know you're kidding, but it has been suggested. Mike's gearbox has a different bellhousing to mine. Petrol/diesels are a bit different.
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Chewing over these two as potential replacements (to be used as weekend/secondary family car) at the moment:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507285573542
(Don't like the tow bar and cambelt, but hmmm nice otherwise)
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507155218940
(Don't like potential expensive repair costs of the "brand").
Smoking about in the SAAB today, fox really is bucked. Don't want to risk it through the winter even as a second car.
Any thoughts from the panel? Just wanting to chew it over with like minded obsessives.
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the accord would be on my drive in a heartbeat.
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My Mother had that Accord, and very nice it was too. Whereas I am quite partial to BMWs.
I like both. Both could be a good deal. I think it depends on the individual example so you'll have to go and see them.
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I likes the Beemer. Would prefer a darker int. though. Accord is nice too of course, with fewer miles on the tick tock.
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Another good looking possible here - look at that dealer service record:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508075864897
Like the Accord best I think, I'm hypnotised by the plush interior.
Might have to get off my not inconsiderable backside and go and look. Sigh. I hate negotiating.
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I don't mind negotiating to buy a car, but I hate negotiating to sell one.
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Oh no. Oh no no no no no. Somebody stop me ferchrissakes.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508115954397
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looks like the one my son traded in, when the big end went.
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Sludge? A full main dealer service history would mitigate against that problem. They'd have dropped the sump and upgraded the breather kit - the issue was well known by 2003, and rectified in 2004 model year cars. So I reckon a 53 plate with a full dealer history would have had the problem averted before it was too late.
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>> Sludge? A full main dealer service history would mitigate against that problem. They'd have dropped
>> the sump and upgraded the breather kit - the issue was well known by 2003,
>> and rectified in 2004 model year cars. So I reckon a 53 plate with a
>> full dealer history would have had the problem averted before it was too late.
As was my son was told, right up to the time the big end went.
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>> As was my son was told, right up to the time the big end went.
As ever, you make a compelling argument.
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>> As was my son was told, right up to the time the big end went.
>>
>>
Just coming back to this one, did your son have the sump dropped, cleaned and breather pipes changed in his ownership?
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 22:58
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>> Just coming back to this one, did your son have the sump dropped, cleaned and
>> breather pipes changed in his ownership?
>
No he was told it was done by the SAAB specialist he bought it from, the one over your way. To be fair they changed the big end bearings, and then the gearbox went.
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Nice colour, the Saab:)
Our 2002 Civic was the same green as that Accord. Never has a car attracted so many minor bumps and scratches. I sold it to a friend who is very happy with it except that it has collected another three in the past year in various car parks. I never believed the stuff about green being unlucky.
I'd be tempted by the Accord though. Likely to be less trouble than the Saab or any BMW, and if it has four new Pirellis that would be a good sign of the owner's attitude.
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>>Our 2002 Civic was the same green as that Accord. Never has a car attracted so many minor bumps and scratches
'sposed to be an unlucky car colour. Had a met. green capri, dustcart hit it. Had a BRG MG, gearbox went.
Had a met. green 240Z, pranged x 2.
Just saying like.
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>> 'sposed to be an unlucky car colour. Had a met. green capri, dustcart hit it. Had a BRG MG, gearbox went. Had a met. green 240Z, pranged x 2.
That was the general view in Clapham minicab circles Perro.
When I was small I had a green pedal car and longed for a green car like the doctor's. But I've never owned a green car in real life.
There's a very nice brg MGB GT that gets fettled at the local indy here. It's in mint nick and I really fancy it.
There was a racing MGC GT advertised for ages in Motor Sport a few years back. No bumpers, yellow nose and tail, the rest brg. I'd have killed for it.
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>>There's a very nice brg MGB GT that gets fettled at the local indy here. It's in mint nick and I really fancy it.
My MGB was a roadster in BRG. It was an automatic [ducks for cover!!] Although I luvs me autos, they were a no-no in a car like that, completely spoilt it tbh.
I tuned and got to drive a few MGC's, nice cars, I wouldn't mind one now. Did a few V8's too. dun 'em all ain I :)
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>> I tuned and got to drive a few MGC's, nice cars, I wouldn't mind one now.
I'd absolutely love one Perro if I could afford it.
Only been in one once. Met in London in the sixties a cat I'd been at school with in Ceylon, a tea planter's son and a very fine bloke even when we were 10. He had a rough old MGC he affectionately called his 'old bus', and rumbled me through the West End one night quite briskly.
That MGC engine was really a lorry or van unit. The barefaced cynicism of BL in its glory.
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>> Met in London in the sixties a cat I'd been at school with in Ceylon
He'd ended up in advertising, but we didn't have any work connection. Can't remember how we came to meet again. He was still a nice cat and hadn't really changed.
His dad was nice too. I went to their plantation once at a weekend - the plantation cats were nearer the school than us army and navy brats - and rode his very nice new bike, heavy but nice. I can still visualize the tread of its front tyre. It was a wet day.
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>>That MGC engine was really a lorry or van unit.
Well I'll be damned, I didn't know that. I've gorn right off it now :)
I got to tune & road test a few of these as well: www.austinmemories.com/page8/page61/page61.html
I drink a gallon of Ceylon tea every day believe it or not. I buy a lot of my tea from these people in Kent. "The Smith family started the business over 30 years ago when they retired from India where they had been in the tea plantation business for two generations".
www.tea-and-coffee.com/about-us
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>> >>That MGC engine was really a lorry or van unit.
I don't think it was. It started off life in a large saloon.
www.mgownersclub.co.uk/mg-guides/mg/mgc-gt
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>> I don't think it was. It started off life in a large saloon.
Austin 3 litre, Morris 1800 chassis with a long snout and that engine longitudinally located at the front? I remember an abortion along those lines. Few examples were made and even fewer bought for good money.
The Austin 'Rolls Royce' engine was an ioe 4 litre unit, heavy, unrefined and memorably gutless.
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>> Another good looking possible here - look at that dealer service record:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508075864897
Ah yes, the primera that Renault helped design and specify.
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Ah. Primera idea binned. Bit gutless, anyway. At least the Accord has a bit of grunt.
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Right then. Off to see a Honda.
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>> Right then. Off to see a Honda.
Bit late now but we had a v reg 2.0 Accord for a few years when it wasn't very old. It was quite nice, but did feel a bit 'heavy', and you had to rev it. Driving the lower powered 2.0 Focus was nicer/easier. Not sure how much difference the .3 makes - the power output given by AT looks pretty similar to that of the 2.0, IIRC.
I'd go for the BM.
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 15:27
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Honda was way sheddier than the advert implied. Walked away without test driving. Seats were heavily cracked, oil was filthy black leading to the conclusion that the service stamps were fake, which they did look to be on inspection. A quick google indicates the garage doesn't exist. Missing engine under tray. 4 mismatched unknown brand tyres, all cracking up and in need of replacement. Headlamps yellow and look beyond a bit of polish and restoring.
Not a well looked after car. Seller tried to tell me it's chain cam when I know different.
No thanks, I'd rather put money in the SAAB.
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>>leading to the conclusion that the service stamps were fake
Once bought a Toyota Supra from my sisters boy who has a bodyshop garage in SE12.
The fool main dealer service history was completely faked. I only found out when I sold the car on to one of Westpig's mates!!
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>> heavily cracked, oil was filthy black leading to the conclusion that the service stamps were
>> fake, which they did look to be on inspection. A quick google indicates the garage
>> doesn't exist. Missing engine under tray.
Well at least it means that someone had got the sump plug at some stage.....
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One of my cars came with stripped threads in the alloy sump and a wooden bung serving as a sump plug. Had to get a helicoil and a new sump plug, really annoying and fiddly. And well filthy of course, sump full of metal filings and old bits of chain tensioner buried in the sludge. At times cars stop being fun.
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At that price level, between £1k & £1.5k, can you not cut out the middleman? Plenty of private sales in my part of the world... Newsagents window, supermarket notice board ( allegedly better class of car in Waitrose).
Buy on condition, and if the inside of the sellers house is neat n tidy, that's always a good indication. My last two cars have been bought privately, and in both cases the sellers homes were spick & span, which in LL world means they look after their stuff! Doesnt stop the engine going bang though, but perhaps less chance of that happening.
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Your post is why I like the look of the burgundy SAAB, LL.
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And it was the Saab that had 4 new tyres and a Pirelli in the picture? Got that one round my neck.
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I'm kind of surprised at the idea of spending nearly 2k on a 13 year old car. Has the world moved that much?
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Mine's for sale as a runner, would happily hit the autobahn to the UK with it tomorrow :-)
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The urban 19mpg for a not-that-quick 0-60 of 11s (AT figures) would put me off, even on a low mileage. Should have gone for that 4.0 Jag V8 :)
BTW clicking on the SAAB link no loner brings up a car for me.
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Yeah, it's gone. Weird. The ad only went up today. I have been watching......
Maybe it sold that fast or they changed their mind.
Don't know if I should be relieved or disappointed.
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Not going to look at the Beemer?
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...or how about:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507275555769
EDIT: although just seen 'part service history'
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 11 Aug 15 at 19:48
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Is there any reason why you won't consider a manual? It is very rare that they give problems.
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Something like this would do:
tinyurl.com/p6ppwt3
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>> Something like this would do:
>>
>> tinyurl.com/p6ppwt3
>>
That is a cracker, I must say WP. Hmm.
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Although, prIvate seller? Photographed outside a workshop with a Clifford alarms logo above the door?
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>> Is there any reason why you won't consider a manual? It is very rare that
>> they give problems.
>>
Mrs A.
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>> Not going to look at the Beemer?
>>
Trying to create the time today. In the meantime, there's these:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506284714463
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508045760903
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507205343706
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507125130782
I think WP's Jaaaaaag is a bit flash for my tastes. Not keen on the pastichey retroness of the model.
(P.S. the Passat was a manual.)
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 12 Aug 15 at 12:38
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>> (P.S. the Passat was a manual.)
Yeah sorry, overlooked that requirement.
Nice selection of motors. Not sure about anything that's 'rare' though; expensive S60 looks nice, but I'd be tempted to go for the cheap one and spend the £1.4k on beer for the festival.
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Sadly the cheap red one is the furthest away. Just spotted this, which is going to the top of my list:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201503111618790
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They're all in Arfur Daley territory as trade buys, though, aren't they?
FWIW, I had one of those BMs. An auto. Box was fine, the engine had its niggles - spurious ECU fault lights and a tendency for the coolant header tanks to split at the seams. But there are plenty of them about so good indy garages should be well able to mind them. Do try out the back seat for size - they're smaller than a Mk 1 Focus!
Now have a Honda FRV just gone 105,000 miles. Bought privately, maintained by a mechanic mate (so we were told, and outcome of two services and an MOT that showed nothing of note suggest). No reason to think it won't match the good form of its Subaru stablemate and do another 105,000 without too many worries.
But the seller proved genuine, and local enough to us that, in a small town, it would be an embarrasment if he knowingly sold us a shed.
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£290 tax - ouch. Third of the cost of that red Volvo.
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Which is the same amount of tax you pay on the red Volvo. If you want something with even a modicum of shove, you've got to cough.
Wish the red Volvo was a bit closer to me, but it s a poverty spec and that's a bit of a turn off. The Avensis is pokier and loadeder. And probably more reliable.
Damn. I'd just talked myself I to the Avensis. Now I'm doubting it.
Also, S60s are poor on rear legroom and my children aren't getting any smaller. The eldest is 10 and almost up to my throat heightwise, I'm 5'10.
Where's WillDeBeest when you need him. He knows all about rear space in S60s.
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Just back from a cracking days walking in t'Lakes
Two 9.5 estates on a drive. One said Aero on t'back, other TiD. Not often you see two almost identical cars on a small drive. His n hers?
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I used to have a manual S60 2.0 turbo in S spec, like the red one in your ads. Mine was on a 03 plate. Cracking car, loads of power, no faults or issues up to 50k miles when I sold it for a V50 which had a lot less interior space for the family, despite being an estate.
Only real issue with the S60 is the very narrow boot aperture, although the boot itself was huge. Sometimes tricky for prams, strollers etc though.
The other, grey, S60 although newer and with more toys, is from the S60 facelift range, which I understand was less well-built and had more niggles (cost-cutting?)
That S80 will probably cost a mint to run..!
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Where's WillDeBeest when you need him...
Here! Back from two pleasantly internet-free weeks in rural Lot-et-Garonne.
We relieved our S60 of family-bus duties in 2008 when the Beestlings were 5 and 7, although they still fitted comfortably at that stage. (We wanted easier access to the boot, and a true three-booster back seat.) It eventually went in May, by which time it would still just about take B. Minor behind me; he's now 12, but around the 101st centile for height (!) and set to exceed my 1.97m.
So it wouldn't work for us, but a less leggy family should be OK for a while. I see a few S60s being used as private hire vehicles, which seems odd to me but suggests that adults do fit reasonably well in the back.
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Cheers, DubyaDeeBee.
Lot-et-Garonne, not somewhere I know really. Bet it's lovely though. Gite with a swimming pool would do nicely I expect.
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It did. First time there for us too and we'd go again. It's the home of the Côtes de Duras wine appellation and the source of the plums for Agen's eponymous prunes. Nice small towns and daytime and evening markets, good cycling country too.
Only mouche in the mousse onctueuse is all the other Brits; they're everywhere in the towns and hard to avoid, which rather detracts from the away-from-it-all feeling, compared with further north in Charente Maritime, which somehow feels a little more properly French. More fish there too - but less wine.
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Hmm, other Brits. Erk. I find very few in the Vendee every summer, I suppose it's not southerly or hot enogh for most to bother. Lots of Irish though. Climate there is fine by me, very hot days are rare, as are wet and cool days. It's just nicely down the middle.
Back to my soppy cogitations upon the subject of SAAB. Car viewing intentions suspended for the day due to rain.
If this was local, though, I'd buy it today. Might even consider taking a day off tomorrow to go and get it:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508105932302
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>> If this was local, though, I'd buy it today. Might even consider taking a day off tomorrow to go and get it:
Wow, that's a nice car as described. I'd be tempted too if I had any money like this Lud you all boast about.
Hope you get there in time Alanović.
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That S60 does look nice, and I retracted my private thought on what I thought was a premature cambelt at 68,000 when I saw its age and realized it must have been done on schedule at ten years. The 2.4T was reckoned to be the nicest of the petrol engines, and the one best suited to an automatic; the auto D5 was horrible.
But to put that £1,500 asking price into perspective, it's about twice what I got as a trade-in for my 52 D5, so you're paying £700+ for whatever minimal comeback you might get against a dealer on a 13-year-old car. Might you do better to offer £950 to a private seller who's just been offered £750 as a trade-in, and put the difference aside against a new intercooler or engine mount?
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Or offer £750 to a private seller who then has no part ex and is in a stronger buying position?
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A fair point. But if the dealer's warranty covers intercoolers and engine mounts?
I really don't mind buying from dealers when they are genuine - this one walks and quacks like a genuine place. Although there is a little too much enthusiasm for hair gel shown on the "meet the team" pictures. But I'll be generous and put that down to them being norverners.
;-)
Oh, edit. My nearest private seller wants £2k............
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508126000798
The red one I posted yesterday seems properly priced, but it's a povvo spec 2.0. £500 for the 2.4 in top spec? Ok, go on then.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 13 Aug 15 at 14:57
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>> If this was local, though, I'd buy it today. Might even consider taking a day
>> off tomorrow to go and get it:
Yeah but remember Honda was way sheddier than the advert implied...
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Indeed, FL. Sobering.
(Bah. Don't like you any more.) ;-)
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:) Given up on the Avensis then? That looked quite nice.
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It does look nice. For an Avensis. Which is the bit I'm struggling with. I'd have gone to look at it this lunchtime if it hadn't been tipping down and now I've been browsing autotrader instead. Fatal.
I'm sure it's the most sensible thing on earth to buy. But I fear I'd hate myself for it when I could have had a 2.4 S60.............
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 13 Aug 15 at 15:04
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>> But I fear I'd hate myself for it when I could have had a 2.4 S60.............
I know what you mean, especially if it turned out to be unreliable. In fact, how about an Alfa - then it can only be better than you're expecting.
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Automatic = Selespeed = very rare = probably the stupidest thing I can imagine doing.
Still half tempted though.
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Do you feel efficiently confident to visit the auction?...last time I went was with the intention of buying a large estate. I bought a Polo 16V. Doh.
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Ha ha, no. I don't trust myself to not do something stupid. Like another SAAB. Seen a nice 9-3 whilst browsing today..............gah.
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"Vendee... Lots of Irish though"
That's because its a handy run down from Cherbourg or Roscoff, y'see. All ferries from Rosslare or Cork arrive in one or t'other.
Its also about as far south as most Irish visitors will drive. Every year we find that by the time we've made it into Poitou-Charentes, ours is the only Irish car left on the road...
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Yeah, I'd twigged the Roscoff-Cork thing. Spoke to a few who had flown Dublin-Nantes as well. I suppose Vendee is the sub-tropics to most Irish folks.
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One owner, full main dealer history
tinyurl.com/p3r3ryr
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Expect the usual guff about it being a Mondeo in drag.
Very little was in common with the Mondeo, I think its great and better than a Mondeo.
I want that but at 20,000 a year that I do, probably not!
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>> Very little was in common with the Mondeo,
18% shared parts....and the Mondeo is a good car anyway.
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Again, it's nice WP, but don't you hate it when someone says full service history, and then you see the book hasn't been stamped for two years?
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>> Again, it's nice WP, but don't you hate it when someone says full service history,
>> and then you see the book hasn't been stamped for two years?
>>
It had only done 7,000 miles in that time?
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I'm just being pedantic. It's not a full service history even though the car's probably fine for having missed one, and is overdue another.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 13 Aug 15 at 16:36
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>> I'm just being pedantic. It's not a full service history even though the car's probably
>> fine for having missed one, and is overdue another.
>>
Well that's interesting and obviously a good example of each person's perception being different... because... I'd see that as a full history and as it's had Jaguar main dealer services only, has had 1 owner from new and has a pretty low mileage, it would be right up there for that sort of money (he'd easily drop £250 from his asking price and you could do that on the phone).
Many modern cars have long life servicing nowadays which can be 20K mileage over 2 years, so this one with only 7,000 miles between services wouldn't be a worry in the slightest.
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Not many private vendors will have a keytag with the reg number on either!
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Well spotted Mr Eagle Eyes
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This is a problem with so called private sales. I'd rather pay more to a reputable garage than less to some shyster posing as private.
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>> I'd rather pay more to a reputable garage than less to some shyster posing as private.
I get that, but you'll pay £2,000 for a £1,000 car.
Each to their own, but I'd spend a lot of time hunting through duff private sales before I'd cough up an extra £1,000.
Buying a car in this budget is tricky. Whatever its like today, you have no idea what is hidden.
e.g. if you had sold your Saab to a dealer who would have believed the car sound.
Now, my BS detector might have spotted you, but how could it spot a dealer who thinks the car is ok?
Never mind a dealer who is practiced and selling, avoiding the wrong questions etc. etc.
I'd rather buy privately and try to judge the person I am buying it from, then buy from a dealer and need to assess the car.
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>> I'd rather buy privately and try to judge the person I am buying it from, then buy from a dealer and need to assess the car.
It's prudent to have a thorough look round the car whoever you buy it from FMR.
In my experience private sellers quite often think they're clever and can pull the wool over the buyer's eyes. You can see their own little eyes going beady and smug when they're trying it on. They are far more crooked than car dealers but fortunately not so good at hiding the fact.
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I'm with the overseas chappie. When I bought the 330 my ex came along and she spent the best part of an hour discussing recipes whilst I went out for an extended test drive with her husband. They got on really well, the car had been owned and driven by her ( he had an X5 and 911 variant) their children were really nice and well behaved, and we both felt it was a genuine sale with nothing to hide. Done deal without a seconds hesitation.
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>> their children were really nice and well behaved, and we both felt it was a genuine sale with nothing to hide. Done deal without a seconds hesitation.
That's how you would want it to be, and it sometimes is more or less. But I've been there often enough to have come across the other thing once or twice.
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Early X types well known for bad rot in the sills. The plastic trim often hides some nasty corrosion.
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One thing is bothering me about the silver S60. The radio is tuned to Capital Radio 105.8, a London station, and the temperature display shows 30 deg C. In Doncaster. Did it get that warm up there in early July when we had 36 in Reading?
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Isn't that two things?
Anyway, hot air in South Yorkshire is nothing unusual; that's where our Rog hangs out - and sounds off.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 13 Aug 15 at 17:20
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You sure it was C, not F?
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Just thought, these guys are near you. Seem quite decent - they've been around some years - and they flip auction cars in large quantities.
www.ebay.co.uk/sch/carswithnoreservereading/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
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Thanks, MM, will have a gander.
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That frequency would be right for Hull.
www.capitalfm.com/how-to-listen/fm/
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Thanks, Manatee, that would explain it.
So the car's been for sale for at least 7 weeks, can't hit 30 deg in Doncaster too often.
About 10 years ago I was driving through Sonning, which suffers from poor radio reception. I was tuned to BBC London, and it went fuzzy as usual. When it came back, it was a weather forecast about The Wash area. BBC Radio Lincolnshire. It lasted about 10 seconds, went fuzzy again and then resettled on BBC London. How the hell it managed that trick I'll never know, but sure enough both stations broadcast on 94.9FM. I put it down to being outside Yuri Geller's house at the time.
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>> If this was local, though, I'd buy it today. Might even consider taking a day
>> off tomorrow to go and get it:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508105932302
>>
Blimey, there's a 2.5 as well as a 2.4. 10 more BHPs.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508136027016
Bit high on the miles, ut local.
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Right then. Off to look at the local Volvo. If it's a shed I might go to Doncaster in the morning.
Yes, I know. I should buy the Avensis.
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>>Yes, I know. I should buy the Avensis. Beemer.
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>> >>Yes, I know. I should buy the Avensis. Beemer.
>>
Hmm, mileage is a bit high on that BMW.
Local S60 wasn't up to scratch. Tatty interior, bust boot struts, and worst of all no oil on the dipstick. In mitigation it had arrived at the dealer yesterday and was awaiting prep, but it was too tired for me. Glad I saw it before it was tittivated. Didn't turn the engine on for fear of damaging it. Maybe a bit OTT, but there was a blob of old, sticky, congealed oil on the end of the stick, real nasty. There was an invoice proving the last service in Nov 14, but still. Best avoided I think.
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They all break boot struts; mine broke 5, mainly because Mrs Beest kept flinging the lid open and letting it bounce (see also Mechanical Sympathy thread) breaking the plastic cup at the end. They're reasonably cheap (£30ish) as spares, and easy to replace if you have a rubber mallet.
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Centre arm rest was bust too, the flap over the cup holders. Is that a common weakness? Overall I like the model, might well go up to Donny tomorrow.
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Oh yeah, plastic panel under rear 12v outlet missing, what I'd presume was the power steering fluid receptacle was covered in gunk, obviously leaking.
In all - mechanical and cosmetic shortcomings, just not a well looked after car.
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Mine did. The slidey-hingey bit gets sticky and eventually someone forces it and it snaps. Forum search 'lego', 'soldering iron' and 'Tinnocks' to see how I fixed it.
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'Tunnocks', even. Apologies to our Scottish contributors.
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>> 'Tunnocks', even. Apologies to our Scottish contributors.
Blimey, with all that constant fettling you'd be better off with a Laguna.
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NO need for that sort of language, Z.
WdB, what in particular would you advise me to check out on the model?
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This was 13 years of fettling, Z. Yer typical Laguna would have been fettled into a metre cube in about half that time.
Not sure I can offer much that's useful, Vić. The other things I fixed on mine - intercooler, DMF, two injectors - were on a manual diesel not an automatic petrol. Mild clonks from the front suspension will be anti-roll bar drop links or bushes, neither of which is expensive to replace. Mine left us with its original exhaust. But do ask about the handbrake drums and shoes, which have a nasty mode of failure (worth a google) if neglected.
All the petrols have turbos too, so check that full boost doesn't produce any Engine Service messages on the dashboard display, but I don't know if my sticky vanes problem would apply to a petrol turbo. And check that it's had a cambelt - I think the 96,000 miles or ten years schedule applies to all the five-cylinder engines, not just diesels.
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1.6 tonnes 2.4 litre turbo petrol automatic Volvo S60 - *cough*MPG!
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Weekend car only, paltry annual mileage. Ideal opportunity to not worry about MPGs.
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Very much so, why not get a nice V8 Beemer?
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If you really want one and want the original rather than the facelift model I'd hang on for a 2.3.
Only thing that really causes a problem on those petrol 5 cylinders was the throttle body. Seem to recall five or six hundred a pop for one. That may have changed.
Otherwise standard stuff. WdB car was still on the original exhaust as was mine at 9 years old, only the hanger had to be replaced on mine, there's a kit available for about £15.
Top engine mounts split frequently on the diesels, I had three on my car over 7 years, not sure about the petrol models.
Some people report these cars as heavy on drop links, I replaced one. Never had to do the boot struts and used the boot daily, others report regular failure.
I replaced the bottom bushes on the front suspension as they are oil filled, replaced mine with poly bushes which sharpened up the steering and stopped the tram lining.
Drive it and don't be shy. The OBC will soon tell you if anything is amiss.
Generally sound, solid cars. Not sure I would pick one as a weekend fun car though. Handling is not it's forte, it's a long distance cruiser not a point and squirt kind of car, even with that power.
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>> Maybe a
>> bit OTT, but there was a blob of old, sticky, congealed oil on the end
>> of the stick, real nasty. There was an invoice proving the last service in Nov
>> 14, but still. Best avoided I think.
Not OTT at all - it's been running round with low oil, and it has a turbo? A top up isn't going to fix any damage from that.
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But seriously, given that mpg is not an issue, have you considered a Lexus GS 300 ? Often owned by elderly 'professional' people. Well cared for examples can be had for less than £2k these days.
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I recall getting low-30s mpg on my 2.0 turbo 5-speed manual, eked it up to around 35mpg on a very gentle run occasionally. Generally drove it with gusto. MPG did fall significantly on the occasional overnight autobahn run from France up to Denmark though...!
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So, it is done. I have put a deposit on an S60. The black expensive one I linked to a few days ago.
The car needs a cambelt and this will be done before I pick it up. £2.4k, which might sound a lot to some, but including the cambelt I'm happy enough. The seller checks out as genuine, local trader. Everyone needs to make a living. He has taken my SAAB. I explained abut the gearbox and the work I've had done to it, he did suck his teeth a bit and wanted a test drive, so that was fine and off we went. He was happy enough and gave me 800 quid for it.
It's only done 75k miles, almost full Volvo history except the last service which was done in May. Top spec, electric and heated seats, all that jazz. Really nice cream leather interior, in perfect order.
Only two slight problems, a stuck ventilation flap giving hot through one vent, and misty headlamps. Seller will rectify vent and polish up headlamps as best as possible with restoring compound.
Happy.
10 year cambelt interval I can live with, when it's getting a fresh one.
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>> I explained abut the gearbox and the work I've had done to it,
Good for you.
I hope you enjoy the car, I would. And if its as good as you say, then £2,400 sounds pretty good.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 15 Aug 15 at 16:08
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>> So, it is done. I have put a deposit on an S60. The black expensive
>> one I linked to a few days ago.
Ah yes: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507205343706
That does look very nice; good luck!
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There isn't enough about the engine unless you're a Jaguar expert and just know what a 2.7litre diesel is.
Is it a V6 or a thumping great four?
Nice looking motor sure enough.
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>> Nice looking motor sure enough.
Oh dear... I really am losing it. That post referred to the £3,750 black Jaguar, the first car in the list of others from the dealer selling the Volvo. Tsk! See a nice motor, drift off into a dream.
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Looks nice, how long you planning on keeping it for alanovic? Did you say it was a short termer?
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I think this might be a keeper.
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Brave thing to announce on here, and you've not even got it yet. ;)
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>> I think this might be a keeper.
I think you said that about the lagunna
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>> >> I think this might be a keeper.
>>
>> I think you said that about the lagunna
>>
>>
I expect you're right there.
Now, remind me how much you said I'd get from a trader for the sheet box SAAB?
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Nice jamjar vić .. it's no Subaru of course, but nice all the same ;)
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>> Now, remind me how much you said I'd get from a trader for the sheet
>> box SAAB?
>>
Swings and roundabouts. He's paid you that much for the Saab, because you've paid that much for the Volvo.
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>>He's paid you that much for the Saab, because you've paid that much for the Volvo.
Reminds me of the 1970's when I used to buy my cars from one Charlie Lucey in Brentwood. One time I took a bashed up Zephyr 4 mrk 3 to him in px for a mrk 2 Cortina. He just shoved the Zephyr around the back and 'adjusted' the price of the Cortina.
Another time I took a work mate along with his old mrk 2 Consul which had more filler in the bodywork than bodywork. Charlie did him 'a deal' though, and he came away with an Austin A 60 :(
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>> Now, remind me how much you said I'd get from a trader for the sheet
>> box SAAB?
500 quid I seem to recall.
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Just hope that the gearbox lasts long enough for you to trade! It may have been wise to leave it there.
As it is fairly local to you, will you follow the old car and see what he he offers it for - and how quickly. That should give you a clue as to whether he fixes it or just takes the warning bulb out :)
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It's behaving just fine at the moment. I think he's going to move it on to another dealer who does older stuff.
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Enjoy it. That's one of the first facelifts, similar to the D5 Sport I traded a couple of years ago. The sound system should impress...
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 15 Aug 15 at 18:33
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Are they the saloon version of the V70 inside? I quite like an estate but i like the s60 inside.
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Identical to the B pillar. Pat has the estate version. Think she's on the fence about the car ;-)
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 15 Aug 15 at 18:50
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Right thanks, looked at one last time. No doubt I'll have a look next time.
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I love ours! The seats which do what I tell them as soon as I unlock the car. The ability to move house with the room in the estate version if you wanted to. The way it handles the uneven and sunken back roads in the Fen, and the MPG hovers around 50/52 all the time.
But most of all the sound of it. I can never work out which I love best, the sound system at full blast or the sound of those 5 cylinders in 3rd gear when it gives that distinctive throaty roar.
I turn AC/DC off to hear that!
Enjoy it Alanovic, good ones are hard to come by but worth looking after.
Pat
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Thanks, Pat. I don't think I can expect to match your MPG there........
I did think about going to see a nice estate locally (2.4 petrol auto in green), but I've go tone estate car already.
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£2,500 for an 11-year-old car seems like absolute top dollar to me. A car that age you're not really getting much protection through buying from a dealer, do you think? Anyway, hope it goes well for you; looks nice.
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Well as WP pointed out I wouldn't be getting 800 for the SAAB against much else. WeBuyAnyCar quote 295 - scrap value.
Privately I'd expect to pay 1500 for this Volvo, then I'd have to fork out £350 for a cambelt, and an hour's labour plus vat for the ventilation problem, etc etc........and there is a measure of protection buying from the dealer, they're an old established business with a reputation to protect, I'm sure they'll stand by the car at least in the first 6 months, and there's warranty on it too.
So, overall, 2.4k (not splitting hairs but every ton counts) isn't too bad. And it's only a 75k miles car with (nearly) FMDSH.
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When are you getting it Al?
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>> When are you getting it Al?
>>
Thursday or Friday I expect. Once the cambelt is done, the vent is fixed and the headlamps polished. No rush.
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>>£2,500 for an 11-year-old car seems like absolute top dollar to me
Anything less than £1,500 has got an MOT and not much else.
Anything more than £3,000 is either an over-priced banger or a really tatty example of a "non-banger.
Between £1,500 and £3,000 is a good quality, mostly ok, nice car suitable for bangernomic motoring.
Then it comes down to availability, MOT length, tyres, service history and all those things.
And the one Al has bought has got enough going for it to put it up near the top end of what's available.
It sounds like a fair price to me, although personally I do favour private deals in that price range.
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Seems banger prices have gone up considerably then. Haven't bought anything for four years.
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In truth, neither have I, but that's how it looks to me.
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>>>£2,500 for an 11-year-old car seems like absolute top dollar to me
>>>Anything less than £1,500 has got an MOT and not much else.
>>>Anything more than £3,000 is either an over-priced banger or a really tatty example of a "non-banger.
>>>Between £1,500 and £3,000 is a good quality, mostly ok, nice car suitable for bangernomic motoring.
>>>Then it comes down to availability, MOT length, tyres, service history and all those things.
Absolutely spot on and very much mirrors the old 5-series diesel tourer market. Mine is 13yrs+ now and would have a nominal value of close to £2500 due to condition/history... but is already written down in my head to £1500 so could be sold very realistically if I needed to swap.
BTW good luck with the new car Alanovic.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 19 Aug 15 at 13:17
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Cheers, F. I expect it to be fine.
;-)
Although I don't seem to share your fault sniffing skills usually.
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Don't get here so much these days but I have followed the Laguna saga and now the Saab... perhaps I should have offered the old 156 after all to give you a taste of reliability.... it's still about locally and seems to be going OK.
My sniffing skills are heightened these days as with daughters both on the road I'm looking after a fleet of 2002 (x2), 2003 & 2004 cars. Maintenance OCD is in... err... overdrive.
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I aspire to your example, F. I've just done the air and cabin filter on our Mazda 6, oil and filter to be done at the weekend. Cabin filter was the easiest one I've done, why can't all cars be designed like that? Just a clip-off panel behind the glovebox, pull the old out and slot the new in. 60 seconds work.
The Volvo's records show its last service in May this year, but I'll check the filter and probably do an oil/filter change myself just in case.
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>>>Cabin filter was the easiest one I've done, why can't all cars be designed like that?
The variance between cars is immense. Our new to the family Jazz one is so easy to do sitting in the passenger seat and pulling part of the glovebox forward... the 5-series is easy too with twin filters under covers that pop off under the bonnet... but the Polos are the usual head in the pass footwell job.
The old 156 was even worse with head in the small footwell then two filters to come out through a slot one at a time.
Midwife skills would come in handy with that one!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 19 Aug 15 at 14:19
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The worst ever was the old Ford Galaxy. Blimey ol' Riley. You had to get at it from under the bonnet, removing the rain scuttle and such like. It was then so deeply hidden that you couldn't see the container. I did it once and it must have taken me two hours, after which I was so exhausted with the struggle it took me a couple of days to recover. Layers of skin were lost from my knuckles, there was a fair bit of blood.
The next year I bought a filter with all the other bits and bobs for servicing, but decided I wouldn't bother. It's still in my garage in its original box. Shudder.
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>>>It's still in my garage in its original box
Bit like the 5 (of 8) spark plugs that must still be on the mechanic's shelf who last serviced our Jazz. He obviously didn't fancy accessing the rear 4 or risking the tight one at the front.
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Eight cylinder Jazz? That must need wings!
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I was thinking that but was too scared to say so in Mr Fenlander's class..........
Well done, Jennings III.
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Jennings III? Jennings maj, Jennings mi and hence Jennings min surely? :)
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My prep school went with I, II and III rather than maj min etc.
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I have to do the one in the C4 Picasso again really, but putting it off as it is horrid...
It comes out in the drivers foot well (so, OK on a LHD...) once you have got into the foot well and removed the trim panel you can just see the door. Lever it off, then you need a pair of long nosed pliers to start to pull the filter out. Then you find that it is not a straight pull due to it fouling on the ducting, but as it bends the folds snag on the housing; at which point it will neither come out nor go in. This is compounded by a (seemingly useless!) spigot on the fan cowling that points into the direction of the filter and snags it further. I eventually found that I could just slide one hand up behind the clutch pedal and push on the filter whilst pulling with the other hand which allowed it bend round and slide out. Then you find there is a second filter in there, which needs a repeat performance (albeit a bit easier). Getting it back in is not much easier!
Mind you, a MK3 Megane RHD requires unbolting the clutch pedal to do it.....
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>>>Eight cylinder Jazz?
You know... I assume... they have two spark plugs per cylinder??
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Ah. I genuinely didn't know that was a thing. I will go and check how many my Mazda has per cylinder and will feel quite foolish if it's obviously more than one.
I've not encountered a spark plug change on it, the interval is 65k miles, when I bought it the mileage was thereabouts and they'd just been done. 82k miles up now.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 19 Aug 15 at 17:57
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Alfa were a bit more considerate and put a reminder on the back of their cars to remind you how many plugs you needed for the petrol engines.
M-i-L has a Jazz, I recall when the plugs need doing a manifold has to come off. Kerching ! went the main dealers till.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 19 Aug 15 at 18:20
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There was a boy called Attlee at my last school, a great-nephew I think of the Labour PM. I suppose his mother must have been a Catholic. He was a year or so behind me so beneath contempt for grandees of my sort.
This Attlee had no side and a mole-like, peering demeanour that somehow recalled his distinguished relation. Inevitably in that very reactionary conservative place - all the parents were still smarting from the post-war labour govt. - he was known as 'Clem', but no one normal bullied him or anything. Can't remember his real first name even if I ever knew it.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 19 Aug 15 at 18:35
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Vauxhall was kind enough to stick an 'ABS' badge on mid-90s Vectras. Not sure whose benefit that was for.
Anyone know when the last 'Automatic' badge appeared on a UK-market boot?
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>> Vauxhall was kind enough to stick an 'ABS' badge on mid-90s Vectras.
And the Mk3 Cavalier before that.
>> Not sure whose benefit that was for.
Presumably anyone behind who didn't have ABS. But then again they might have been thinking "why do I need to know, or care for that matter that plastic panel is made from ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene)"
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"Anyone know when the last 'Automatic' badge appeared on a UK-market boot?"
British Leyland used to do this - the most recent I can remember was the Triumph Dolomite - so up to 1980-ish.
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MB did this on the W123, didn't they?
Yes: www.flickr.com/photos/auto-clasico-mallorca/4375916440
So up to 1984 ish.
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>> You know... I assume... they have two spark plugs per cylinder??
Yes indeed Sir. I apologise that I was playing for laughs from the back row.
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>>You know... I assume... they have two spark plugs per cylinder??
Bosh, right between the eyes.
I bet Fenlander thought to himself as he wrote about 8 spark plugs that someone was going to walk into it.
And then the final comment; so, um, "nicely" written. Such a gentle, yet effective, enquiry.
My old Geography Teacher would have been very proud.
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>> >>You know... I assume... they have two spark plugs per cylinder??
>>
>> Bosh, right between the eyes.
Think you will find they are Denso, not Bosh.
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I certainly feel a bit Denso, not knowing about the multiple spark plug thing.
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The S60 looks lovely Alanovic. Wish you well with is.
I had a 2005 / 05 plate D5 'S' model (basic spec) and loved it. Did 90,000 miles from new. Very little would touch it for mile-eating in comfort.
Looking forward to hearing how you find it over it's first miles with you.
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Not yet, expecting tomorrow now. It's in a workshop having cambelt, service and MoT done - I wonder if it's a victim of the MoT thing on the other thread? Dealer wants to give the car a full valet when he gets it back before handing it over as well. No rush, I'd rather it's all done and all done right.
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Cheers, Sfd. I'll put a thread up in due course.
My 4th Volvo. The others were 2x 360 and 1x 480, so some might say it's my 1st Volvo........
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>>a stuck ventilation flap giving hot through one vent
I have just been informed that this is the cause of the hold up in delivery of the car. The garage has failed to diagnose the cause so far and believes it to be electrical - further help in diagnosing and rectifying the problem is being called in on Monday. Hey ho, I'd rather they get it right than I get it quickly and have to go back.
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Once they do get it right, Vić, you'll press Auto and never touch the distribution controls again. Best set-and-forget system I've ever used.
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>> >>a stuck ventilation flap giving hot through one vent
>>
>> I have just been informed that this is the cause of the hold up in
>> delivery of the car. The garage has failed to diagnose the cause so far and
>> believes it to be electrical -
'Heater control valve' on my Jag S Type's air con system gave a similar problem.
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>> 'Heater control valve' on my Jag S Type's air con system gave a similar problem.
>>
>>
>>
Was that when Ford owned them? If so no surprise, they were a well known problem on the ford forums.
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>> >> 'Heater control valve' on my Jag S Type's air con system gave a similar
>> problem.
>> Was that when Ford owned them? If so no surprise, they were a well known
>> problem on the ford forums.
>>
Yes... and the Volvo was owned by Ford then as well.
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Cheers, WP and sooty. I expect that's it then. Is it fairly easily fixed? Just wondering from a point of view of timescales, I won't accept the car until it's working. Electrical specialist is coming to the dealer's to diagnose today.
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>> Cheers, WP and sooty. I expect that's it then. Is it fairly easily fixed? Just
>> wondering from a point of view of timescales, I won't accept the car until it's
>> working. Electrical specialist is coming to the dealer's to diagnose today.
>>
Couple of hundred quid to me, 6 years ago or so, from a Jag specialist in Epping Forest, near M25... can't advise more than that as i'm definitely no mechanic.
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Not sure never happened to me, just knew it was common on fords around that age. Depends how hard it is to get to, they aren't very expensive.
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But Saab was owned by GM not Ford. So is this applicable?
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Yes, because Alanovic is talking about the Volvo that he's in the process of buying.
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It's rarely economic to do a proper repair on a prestige car retailed for the £2k mark... so make sure you're happy the work has been carried out properly before accepting the car.
It's a common ruse to put the car out still not quite right hoping you'll give up with complaining before they have to spend real money on an OE standard repair.
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Hopefully they won't be able to bodge this one - either cold air comes out of the vent when it's supposed to, or it won't. If the former, it's fixed. If the latter, I don't buy the car.
Still waiting. I'll give them till the end of the week, and then I'll start getting fed up and make noises about getting my deposit back.
Although it's not an emergency to me and patience might be the best policy.
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Oh I do very much hope it works out.
Effective climate control on prestige cars is complex and needs software diagnostics... it's quite interesting to "drive" the climate on my 5-series via the laptop software.
It was so much easier in the old days when about all that could go wrong was your girlfriend's high heels kicking off a Bowden cable from the side of the heater during a moment.... well anyway...
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>
>> wrong was your girlfriend's high heels kicking off a Bowden cable from the side of
>> the heater during a moment.... well anyway...
Thats why old cars had stirrups up by the headlining......
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>and then I'll start getting fed up
I did think that with the cambelt and this repair they were spending a lot to correct a £2,500 car.
I might now start worrying about the quality of the cambelt replacement. Did it need various bushes or tensioners or anything else at the same time? Can you see it is actually a new belt, etc. etc.
Unless they are doing a sterling job of keeping you informed, I might start to see it as an omen.
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>> I did think that with the cambelt and this repair they were spending a lot
>> to correct a £2,500 car.
>>
It's not a £2500 car.
There is a lot of profit in an 11 year old turbo petrol automatic with £290 road tax.
I know what I got for the more wallet friendly turbo diesel manual 2 years ago. 166g/km vs 240 for this petrol model.
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>It's not a £2500 car.
Probably you know what I meant.
It *IS* a £2,500 car. Within that is profit, profit that can be eroded by costs. Costs that will grow given any sales work agreed. etc. etc.
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I know what you mean, but believe me, there is a LOT of profit in that price.
The cam belt including tensioners, pulleys and aux belt is about £350.
The dashboard problem, no idea but can't imagine it's more than a couple of hours diagnostics, strip down and parts. The dash is a bit of a burger to strip down, you have to start way before the dashboard and work your way forwards loosening trim as you go, not forgetting to not trip the airbag warning light if you don't know what you're doing. That's a trip to Volvo and a £40+ fix in its own right.
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I'm a bit confused gmac.
I meant that the profit in fixing everything properly on a £2,500 car and flogging it to Al is probably considerably less than blagging the next bloke with no or incomplete repairs for the same or a bit less.
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True, the garage can choose not to sell to Al, but as they've taken his money and agreed to the sale in principle then they must still be happy with the turnover or they would have said otherwise wouldn't they ?
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>> or they would have said otherwise wouldn't they ?
Perhaps the fix has proven to be more problematic (costly) than they expected?
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Possibly, they are not nuts and bolts cars.
There are known pitfalls in stripping them down. You don't shut them down in the right order and they get a bit stroppy, requiring a trip to the authorised dealer and a 'phone home' to Sweden to make sure something unorthodox has not been done.
Not a car for the novice to cut their teeth on.
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My Volvo was a couple of years older but I found accessing the codes and stuff fairly easy, as was resetting lights, messages and stuff.
It was instruction manuals for the complicated bits I could never find.
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OBD II kicked in with these P2 cars. You can read the codes but they are generic. Without access to the software, these cheap OBD II interfaces and torque style apps can only point you in the general direction, they will not tell you what the fault is specifically. Great for reading generic information though.
Dealers & manufacturers invest £££££ in these systems. A £5 android app is never going to compete.
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You're not wrong, but I had the actual Volvo codes and software. Mind you, that was after a ton of unproductive messing about with the generic reader stuff. I usually learn the right way after torturing myself with the wrong way.
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Think that's human nature.
I ripped the skin of my knuckles changing the headlight bulbs on my S60. After four sets of bulbs in 21 months I had the DRLs switched off. Never changed a bulb in four years after that.
Funny how long it takes some of us to learn.
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One of the chaps at the supplying dealer claims to have been a long term employee of a local Volvo main dealer. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
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>> Yes... and the Volvo was owned by Ford then as well.
>>
The first Forlvo was the XC90. The S60 mentioned here had a few minor Ford bits like the headlight washer jets instead of the headlight wipers. It was a facelift of something signed off before Ford had influence.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 26 Aug 15 at 16:16
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So have you got this thing yet or not?
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Its all gone terribly quiet on the Volvo front hasn't it.
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Recovering from the festival?
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Indeed, Fl. No time for anything this weekend other than earache, cider (lousy) and recovery.
Last I heard was that the car went off to an electrical specialist on Thursday, I expect he's diagnosed a faulty control valve and needs to get the part in.
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........and today is a week on from your last post. Progress?
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2 parts were required apparently, the second of which was due to arrive yesterday.
Boss got back from holiday last Friday and called yesterday to express his disappointment that I hadn't received the car yet. I expect I'll be collecting this week sometime.
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I would be thinking about walking away from it now. I suspect that either they don't really know what's wrong with it or its a case that to sort it out properly is going to be uneconomical for them given the profit they have in the car. Just my gut feeling of course.
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>>I would be thinking about walking away from it now
Yep! - I too thought along the same lines as thee, days ago.
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Although I'm normally cynical, I think this one could be genuine. It was a fairly obscure part, and the boss has taken the trouble to ring Alanovic up.
Time will tell which of us is proved right.....
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He could be walking either way!
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my patience would be completely gone by now, and I would have walked away.
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A heater control valve (if it is that) is a relatively straight forward thing to diagnose... my old indie diagnosed mine on the phone.
A £200 bill to me at about £50 p.h. labour (rough guess, can't remember), which included parts and VAT means it can't be that onerous a task either.
The delay is a concern. Even if the owner was on holiday, what are the rest of them doing at the garage in his absence?... and did he have no phone with him?
IMO it's on the 'don't want to do it' pile... for whatever reason.
Now the thing is, you've gone for the dealer selling route to have some back up if something goes wrong, yet this garage has badly stalled before the sale has been completed, so what would any warranty work provide?
The cars value is about £1100 Trade and £2200 Retail. Go and find something in the private ads for £1700 - 1800, some old boy's pride and joy... offer £1500 and stick to it... then mentally put aside £500 for anything that needs doing in the first 6 months.
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If I were in urgent need of wheels, I'd have walked elsewhere too. But I'm not. We only need one car at the moment (95% of the time), I'm using the Mazda daily and the SAAB does still work if needed.
Thing is, I want an S60, auto, petrol, under about 80k miles, FSH, under £2.5k. Search autotrader and there are a handful of them matching that description, and none very local. I've viewed a couple and this one is hands down the best I've seen, and it's 12 miles away.
So I'm in a position where I'm prepared to wait. I'm also inclined to take the word of the garage - after all, the fault will be fixed, it would be obvious on collection if not. Also, they own the car at the moment and it has a fault which makes it unsalable - their choice is to fix and sell or scrap the car. If they want sell it, they will have to fix it, whatever the cost. It will then achieve the same price, whoever they sell it to.
They can take as long as it takes.
They expected the fix to be easy, and told me I can collect the car a week after leaving the deposit. They serviced and MOTd the car, then investigated the vent problem, but only a day before the original collection day. They were surprised they couldn't fix it, so called an electrical specialist who had a week's lead time to investigate. Then once he had the car, he diagnosed and needed to order two parts, one of which had over a week's lead time.
I don't see anything suspicious here, and I've been kept informed by the seller all along.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 9 Sep 15 at 09:42
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Ha, believe it or not I just received another call. Second part arrived - wrong part. Chappie said it's a complete control module for the electrics which is required, not just the aircon. Controls the memory seats and all that. Carry on, says I. Glad he's paying for it and not me.
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>> wrong
>> part.
No 3 in volume one of the "Worlds most used Excuses" manual
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Alanović, you have a level of patience which even the biblical Job himself would admire.
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Hope it all works out, but If not have you considered a Lexus GS300 in a private sale, from some elderly retired bloke with FSH. A lot of car for not much ££. A friend of mine had one new many years ago and he covered over 250k trouble free miles in it.
But, as I say, I hope it works out in the end
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>> Hope it all works out, but If not have you considered a Lexus GS300 in
>> a private sale
Sorry, just spotted this one. Yes, I've considered the GS300. I appreciate its qualities but simply can't rustle up any "want" for one. Now an old LS400, we're talking turkey there. But they're enormous and Mrs A would turn it in to Father Ted's Rover 200 after Father Jack had a lend of it in the blink of an eye (down with this sort of thing). Still, I do like the look of the original IS200, but fear a harsh ride versus the S60. Bit too sporty, not enough wafty floaty.
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...Mrs A would turn it in to Father Ted's Rover 200 after Father Jack had a lend of it...
Snigger. You can cross that E-class estate off your list an' all, then. Ours was getting by until Mrs Beest found something red to rub it against.
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Our Mazda 6 estate (original shape) seems the optimum size - she's only managed to drag that through some bushes and occasionally stab it with the ignition key.
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Mrs Z manages to reverse into anything with the smallest of cars. Both the fiesta and the clio suffered despite both having reversing sensors.
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My wife could not possibly achieve her almost 100% rating by running into things by accident. She has got to be doing it on purpose.
Therefore she either learned impact parking when we lived in Paris, or she thinks that the warning noise that parking/reversing sensors make sounds like the dull crumpling of metal.
The only panel undamaged on her Landcruiser was the roof. See that? "Was" - Last week she managed to hit the roof bars on a tree branch.
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Hello, my name is gmac and my wife's a serial crasher.
Last three lease cars have all had over 1k in workshop TLC. Hybrids can take low speed frontal impacts with no damage to the expensive bits.
She's even had a go with my S60 testing how well the inbuilt tyre rim protector works. Hankook V12 tyres don't have rim protectors :-(
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>> Mrs Z manages to reverse into anything with the smallest of cars. Both the fiesta
>> and the clio suffered despite both having reversing sensors.
>>
Mrs B managed to back into the same car twice a few weeks back. She went to reverse onto our drive, thought she had clipped the curb, so went back for a second attempt.........
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My ex would have a thrombie if ever asked to drive anything smaller than a Passat. She is / was most at home in a Mondeo in lane 3 cruising at 95. I once let her loose in the 330 and she took on the persona of the Stig. Never again. The ex ex was almost as bad. Bought her mothers 520 and drove that to within an inch of it's life.
Keeps me on my toes
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Mrs K has only damaged one of our cars and that was many years ago. It was parked in the 'wrong' side of the garage and she swung the frontend around too early and scraped the bumper. I did far more damage to it by dancing with someone.
A jealous boyfriend keyed it, even though it was his girlfriend who had approached me.
How anyone could view my dancing prowess as a threat is totally beyond me.
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>> Mrs Z manages to reverse into anything with the smallest of cars. Both the fiesta
>> and the clio suffered despite both having reversing sensors.
She has my sympathy. Three 'fault' claims on my insurance over 33 yrs and all involve 'losing awareness' of a vehicle immediately behind.
Most recent was last Friday. Reversing out of a parking space by village shop. watching or traffic crossing behind and other shop customers edging for space i 'lost' the BMW 116 directly behind until sound of Enrico's n/s corner creasing his rear o/s door impinged.
No sign of driver so I left a message on a lottery form kindly donated by the store under his wiper.
Driver rang to acknowledge - company car so not that bothered. Says he's reported it but something about his manner is a bit odd, almost guilty. Gave me his employers contact but definitely not keen on giving his home address and slightly iffy about letting his name slip.
Was he in Bugbrooke sha**ing his mistress I wonder?
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What you need Bromptonaut is a permanently live front and rear camera. Maybe sideways to cover 360 degrees also.
If you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear. Right ?
Welcome to 2015 !!! Bob
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 12 Sep 15 at 22:00
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>> Mrs Z ...... reversing sensors.
>>
The day Mrs A realised the reversing sensors on our erstwhile Galaxy had on off switch on the dash was the day she brought it home with a shattered rear light after backing it in to a steel parking barrier. I should have taped over that button before she spotted it.
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>> >> Mrs Z ...... reversing sensors.
>> >>
I think she uses them as radar guided target acquisition and destruction. She should get a job as an RAF drone operator.
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>> No 3 in volume one of the "Worlds most used Excuses" manual
>>
Like I say, when the information is offered pro-actively I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. Most people aren't out to screw anyone. And I can't see how I can be screwed on this one, other than an extended wait, which I am able to absorb. People wait months on end for brand new cars.
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>> People wait months on end for brand new cars.
>>
And more. I was quoted seven years for a Morgan many moons ago.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Thu 10 Sep 15 at 11:01
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This is what I dislike about 'cheap expensive' cars. One my have a £1000 car that originally was expensive but you still have the complexity, running and maintenance costs of a car that cost probably in excess of £20000.
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I'm finding it works rather well in a car's - ahem - middle years. We now have two 'expensive' (£35,000+ at list) cars, each bought at three years old for about the price of a 1.6 Astra. Yes, a Mercedes service costs a hundred more than a Vauxhall one might, and I'm already saving up for when the BMW requires new tyres, but these are relatively small prices to pay compared with the depreciation on something newer but more ordinary.
As they get older, bits will wear out, but even 'expensive' cars are made of components sourced from the same suppliers as 'cheap' makers use. My Mercedes now has Bosch brake parts that seem to be the equal of the three-pointed originals; my old Volvo had its new Bosch injectors from a diesel specialist using the same parts, just not out of a Volvo box. The really big bills are for things that a 'cheap' car simply wouldn't have: I remember a friend years ago scrapping his 7-series rather than spend £2,000+ on a replacement automatic gearbox. Vić's climate control component may come into this category, of course; let's hope not.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 10 Sep 15 at 18:40
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>>'cheap expensive' cars.....
It depends.
I sold my Phaeton because I could not imagine living with out a warranty. It very rarely had issues, but when they did it cost a lot! Like ridiculous money that I cannot imagine a private owner paying.
On the other hand, when I got into running older cars I found I was buying sufficiently cheap that I could afford to throw them away in the face of an expensive billl.
My 5 series cost me the same to buy that my S Class depreciated every month and I got more than a year out of it before my sister stole it from me.
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>> And more. I was quoted seven years for a Morgan many moons ago.
Ok lets start a sweep stake for when Al gets his car. Anytime between now and 7 years time.
(personally I don't think its going to show at all)
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Maybe these folks are hoping so...£5k for a 12 year old S60:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509086728373
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>>it breaks his heart but the car must go...
Get the violins out :) .. but seriously, I doubt if the car will hang about for long.
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>> Maybe these folks are hoping so...£5k for a 12 year old S60:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509086728373
Manual. No thanks.
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Nice car for someone, even in that colour - the interior is in fabulous condition. Just not at that price.
Out of interest, is there really a market for little-used examples of good-but-not-classic motors like the S60? It's hardly a Dickens first edition, so can it really be worth 3-4 times the natural price for an S60 of that age?
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Whilst your at it Zeddo, maybe open a book on when I'm finally going to put the 330 on the market. In a week I shall be overseas, home early Nov, then two weeks Canaries (probably) then pre Xmas early season skiing, then post New Year skiing with Xmas away at a friends place. Then mid Jan/ March overseas again.
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I reckon you'll need a holiday after that lot LL.
:}
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>> Ok lets start a sweep stake for when Al gets his car. Anytime between now
>> and 7 years time.
I'm expecting it this week. Even I might start getting cross if it doesn't happen.
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I'd make them wait until first of October now.
No point paying £290 for eleven and a bit months use.
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Reasonable point, but then I'd lose a whole month of the SAAB's tax. DVLA screws us now whatever happens.
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>> DVLA screws us now whatever happens.
>>
Credit where credit's due, DVLA is only the agent, it's the government what's doin' the screwin'
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>> but then I'd lose a whole month of the SAAB's tax. DVLA screws us now whatever happens.
Cancel the SAAB's tax on 30/09.
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I have to take it to the dealer's, 15 miles away, to trade it in. It must be taxed on the day of exchange of vehicles.
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>>I'm expecting it this week. Even I might start getting cross if it doesn't happen.
This week is almost over vić, any sign of it yet???
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As it happens, the dealer has just called. The part has not landed, despite a promised delivery date of Wednesday. It is apparently still in transit to the dealer. He is now very embarrassed, as would I be.
I suppose my choice is to wait or start the search for wheels again (groan). Or give up and just run the SAAB occasionally.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 18 Sep 15 at 11:29
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What the dealer is saying to you, is one of several things in order of likeliness
"I am waiting for a second hand part to be found somewhere at the right price "
"We have NFI what is wrong with and are swopping out parts"
"We have no intention of fixing this, and are waiting for you to either a: accept it as it is or b: walk away"
What he has told you - "we have paid for an expert to look at it, we know exactly whats wrong with it, a new part was ordered but they let us down on delivery date" is not the case.
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Maybe. Maybe not.
*shrug*
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I suspect Z is right about the secondhand part; new ones from the distributor just turn up the next day. In any case, It seems unlikely a dealer would be able to source a brand new part costing a three-digit amount and fit it without wiping out his margin on a car of this age. It sounds like he's using one of the breaker-scouring services that I investigated when I wanted a mirror shell for mine, which wasn't a rewarding experience - albeit for a dilettante in need of a specific colour. I'd be happier to leave the ball-ache of dealing with such things to someone more familiar with them, but that doesn't seem to be working in this case.
If you still want the car, can you do a deal involving a cash discount that you can put towards fixing it with your own part in your own time? Or get your other friendly specialist to source the part for you? You could get a quote from him before concluding the deal. Meanwhile, it's still warm enough for the next few weeks to drive with the window open.
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Nah. I can't be bothered to sod about myself finding parts. I don't need the car urgently, it's a "nice to have", so I can let it play out however it plays out. At some stage he'll deliver the car or tell me he's going to have to give me my deposit back.
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Was the deposit on a credit card?
Very few dealers will ever enjoy handing cash back.
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>> It sounds like he's using
>> one of the breaker-scouring services
...or the joy of 'e-bay'.
When my Jag's heater control valve went, the specialist I used advised me it would be £200 for the heater control valve or £600 for a circuit board thingy, hidden behind the dash board and a pig to get at.
He told me that he had sourced a second hand circuit board for a customer, but didn't recommend it, as he had no idea whether that one would go as well...
... both were known problems, but the heater control valve was most likely (and indeed that was the case).
If your garage is sourcing a 2nd hand heater control valve then that is stinginess gone too far. If it's the circuit board, then that's debatable, have they told you what the fault is?
There's plenty of cars out there. If it was me it'd me walk away time.
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You may be right. I may be crazy.
I wouldn't expect a brand new part to be honest, it's an 11 year old car. Things fail. If I could afford brand new at the moment I'd do that. I've done it in the past.
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>>Mon 17 Aug 15 18:34
>> When are you getting it Al?
- - - >Thursday or Friday I expect. Once the cambelt is done, the vent is fixed and the headlamps polished. No rush.
You might not have the car ole son, but yoos certainly got a lot of patience.
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I was just thinking the same Perro. I'd be looking for a private sale Lexus GS300 by now, with lots of stamps in the Service Book, and if found have it round to my friendly mechsnic for a thorough once over up on the ramps.
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You may very well be doing the sensible thing, but my teddy bear would be right in the corner by now .
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>> my teddy bear would be
>> right in the corner by now .
I understand the emotion, but what would be the point? A temper tantrum rarely achieves anything other than to antagonise the recipient.
As I keep saying, I'd have walked if I were in need of the car. As it is, I can wait. I have no pressing need. And I'd rather not search again, it's a hassle I can do without as I'm pretty busy with my real life.
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>> my teddy bear would be
>> right in the corner by now .
>
>I understand the emotion, but what would be the point?
Oh absolutely none at all. And it would achieve nothing.
But firstly it'd get thrown anyway and secondly I genuinely think that sometimes one needs to take the hint.
I have no idea if there is a hint to be taken here, as I always say, judge the man not the car, and you're the only one who can judge the man.
Out of interest though, I'd like to know his name and the name of the garage. A fair chunk of my extended family is in the motor trade business in Berkshire/Oxfordshire. By all means email if you don't want to put it in here.
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I'll PM you. Cheers. Actually, is there a PM function on here? Dunno. *goes off for a rummage*
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>> I wouldn't expect a brand new part to be honest, it's an 11 year old
>> car.
>>
You may not have an option. If it is the automatic climate control many of the electronic modules in these cars have to be coded to the car through a trip to Volvo.
It depends on what has failed. Maybe he's sitting it out waiting for you turn up and do a deal on something else...
As mentioned most manufacturers have a 24 hour turnaround on parts.
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If that's what he's doing gmac, then he's read me wrong. He wouldn't be the first. I find it odd because I generally mean what I say and speak plainly. He knows I was after that specific model and he doesn't have an alternative he can offer.
One of the partners at the dealer's worked at a Volvo dealer for 20 odd years. He'd probably know about any issues.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 18 Sep 15 at 14:18
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350 posts.
I think we are very gradually getting there.
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I'd be very happy for the mods to lock this thread if you're all fed up with it and I'll start a new one about whatever new car I might end up with!
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>>I'd be very happy for the mods to lock this thread
They better b***** not. That would be like sitting through an episode of some police series only to have "To Be Continued" come up before you find out who did it.
Very b***** frustrating.
And so far in this saga we don't know whether to admire your patience and ultimate success or to dance on the grave of your Volvo dreams.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 18 Sep 15 at 14:36
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I'd be finding out the part number and 'seeing whether I can track one down for you' and calling the local main dealer.
Saved me several hundred pounds once when mechanic wanted to replace a large unit and I popped round to ask him why not replace just the little bit (£300).
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Parts are in, should be fitted today. Hope to collect car tomorrow. Waiting on confirmation, promised by the end of the day if it's a go for tomorrow or not.
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A wild stab in the dark suggests that you didn't get the car arranged.
So, do tell, what happened?
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Chappie did phone yesterday evening about half six, but couldn't confirm if it's ready or not. Promised to call this morning. 55 minutes to go on that one.............
I am driving the SAAB today. Have to say, I'm going to miss it.
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>> Promised to call this morning.
[Ahem]
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>> I am driving the SAAB today. Have to say, I'm going to miss it.
Virtual fiver says it will be with you for a while yet. Virtual fiver says that if part did arrive, it was a wild stab in the dark that didn't fix it.
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>> Inshallah.
>>
Don't think he knows much about Volvo heating systems.
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I think, if it's not fixed and ready today or tomorrow, I will need to ask him to send it to a dealer to be fixed, and if he's not prepared to do that and still sell it to me for the agreed price we're going to have to go our separate ways.
Yes, Zero. I know you said it all along. But I'm not that unhappy with going along with it in case it came together, I still really like the car (I'm smitten with the spec to be frank, the interior trim is gorgeous and there aren't many about with the same, they're pretty much all dark interiors) and was never in desperate need. Something else will turn up, that's life.
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'Ere. Whaddaweall think of this as an alternative, if the Volvo doesn't show up?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509096766965
Ugly mofo, but value for money.
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And I know I've dismissed these before, but:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507285581649
Ugly mofo, but value for money.
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>> And I know I've dismissed these before, but:
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507285581649
>>
>> Ugly mofo, but value for money.
now you are talking
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>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507285581649
[Jag]
0-60 in 6.9 is seriously quick. And RWD - better watch out on those Reading roundabouts in the rain...
Jealous.
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>> Jealous.
>>
Blimey, don't put the cart before the horse. I'm envious of anyone with a company car to be frank - Dacia Sandero, Merc S-Class, whatever it might be.
:-)
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>> I'm envious of anyone with a company car to be frank
Yeah sorry; I do like the A3, and the ease of 'ownership', but... IIRC my allowance only just about stretched to a base 1 series, never mind a hot Jag. If only they allowed you to pick second hand cars, it would make it a whole lot more fun :)
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Aye, but let's not forget that hot Jag is 15 years old and likely to throw the odd tasty William in the owner's direction.................
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>> 0-60 in 6.9 is seriously quick. And RWD - better watch out on those Reading
>> roundabouts in the rain...
6.9 seconds 0-60 mph is for the manual. The auto is 8.0.
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>> 6.9 seconds 0-60 mph is for the manual. The auto is 8.0.
Ok, that sounds a bit more realistic. Didn't think to question it though as car figures are always accurate.
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>> 'Ere. Whaddaweall think of this as an alternative, if the Volvo doesn't show up?
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509096766965
>>
>> Ugly mofo, but value for money.
i've looked at them, the interiors are truly shocking, the plastics look, feel and fit like they were made from egg boxes, it drives like a bath in a flood, and makes Renault look like the paragon of reliability.
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Had that model of Jaguar for a bit - lovely stuff. Mrs C says it's the second best car we've ever had in her comfy stakes. Ours didn't miss a beat in our ownership and not too horrendous to service at an independent.
Mine was in a light "sea-blue" colour with light upholstery, which looked very smart. It was the 3 litre - lusted after the 4 but the mpg wasn't stunning in the one we had so opted not to.
Westpig also has/had one.
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Yeah, WP has been nagging me to look at them. Might just do that if it doesn't work out this weekend.
Not a great fan of wood inside, particularly this light kind, but I'm sure I could live with it. A nice grey metallic type finish would be streets better.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 25 Sep 15 at 14:27
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>>Not a great fan of wood inside, particularly this light kind,
Too right. It makes it look like Michael Jackson mid-way through his skin-lightening treatment. Utterly hideous!
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Fri 25 Sep 15 at 14:32
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Now HERE'S a barge worthy of the name. It's got my number plate on it, too.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509166962156
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Are you suggesting these in the hope that we'll tell you to hold on for the Volvo after all? Z has been pretty mild in his choice of terms for the Chrysler; the Jaguar is at least in an inconspicuous exterior colour, but you'll need tasselled loafers, a Pringle tank top and at least one gold chain (no doubt WP can recommend suppliers of all three) to live with that interior.
As for the Cadillac, where to begin? An attempt by a maker that knows its cars aren't up to modern standards to get down with the European kids, without taking the elementary precaution of having a clue what it was doing. Lexus's products may lack that last drop of cultured style but at least they did a decent job with the engineering, but a V8 Vauxhall in cowboy boots? Really?
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>> As for the Cadillac, where to begin?
Davina McCall drove around in one for her 'Who do you think you are'. FWIW.
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>> As for the Cadillac, where to begin?
>>
When I looked at that all I could think of was the episode of Top Gear where they all bought similar BMW cabriolets then had the interiors swabbed.
Nose lining scrapings, down the front of pants scrapings and...well you get the picture.
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Yes, I like yr Cadillac Alanović.
I like wood facias and cappings too. Wonderful marquetry, ivory inlay etc on some RR dashboards. But the veneer is very fragile and can buckle or peel if maltreated.
What I do dislike is the quite convincing plastic faux wood seen in some cars. Naff, for poor Americans only.
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>> 13.7 mpg too. Yeehah.
That's a GIRL's fuel consumption. A heavy right clog can easily get that below 10mpg without even trying.
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>> >> 13.7 mpg too. Yeehah.
>>
>> That's a GIRL's fuel consumption. A heavy right clog can easily get that below 10mpg
>> without even trying.
>>
True dat. There is something inside me that really wants it, but Mr Sensible Head will prevail without too much doubt. I can't imagine it would fit my 1971-built British garage, either.
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>> will prevail without too much doubt. I can't imagine it would fit my 1971-built British
>> garage, either.
You need this then
classics.honestjohn.co.uk/cars-for-sale/details?s=carAndClassic&id=C628622
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Just noticed the Jaguar has a (removable but not invisible) towbar. So it's a caravannist's idea of tasteful. (I bet the caravan was called Viking or War Hammer or something similar. It's never Wendy House or Dralon Palace, is it?)
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Good job it's got leather seats, really.
I like the caravans Called "Parade" or "Mayfair". Or "Club".
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A friend of mine has an elderly Jag X Type 3.0 V6, pretty sure with 4 WD. He uses it as a runaround, comes in very useful in winter on cold weather tyres, and he needs the ability to transport himself and his two pre teen children when they stay with him alternate weekends. He was telling me it was worth peanuts, but has been 100% reliable in his several years of ownership. It seems like a decent second car for his purposes, his other being a pristine MB SL 350.
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>> WCPGW?
WTF?
Anyway, the mechanic with the car has failed to contact the dealer today despite several attempts - expect the part's not been fitted or as Z says it's another male chicken-up. I'll give them till the end of the day.
Ultimatum tomorrow, I think.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 25 Sep 15 at 16:04
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I think your earlier approach is worth a bit longer yet.
Having come so far and all that...
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>> I think your earlier approach is worth a bit longer yet.
>>
>> Having come so far and all that...
>>
The parts been on order for what three or four weeks ? He has only had it a couple of days. Halowe'en or he can keep it. By which time you'll be in bargain bucket cabriolet pricing territory.
Hmmm...who has a four seater cabrio they want rid of ? Straight six petrol injun, not an auto though...still, for the right price ???
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 25 Sep 15 at 19:06
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You talkin to me, as said by Travis Bickle?
Sorry , but currently not for sale. Lots of my spare spondoolies are being spent on travelling around the next 12 months, so not changing it for a replacement 3 series estate at the moment.
Talking of early doors drinking, just spent a pleasant few hours Downtown at the Crescent Ballroom, two blocks away, decent cheap beers on tap @ $3 pint pre 6pm during Happy Hours. Obviously taken fully advantage of in the quest to rehydrate.
You know it makes sense
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It's a shame it's just sitting there, collecting dust and fluff in the seat base extension ;-)
$3 seems like good value (depending on what you're getting for those $3), the local beer here is nearer $3.40 at current rates. I can't remember the last time I bought a beer in a pub in the UK at <£2.
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>> I can't remember the last time I bought a beer in a pub in the UK at <£2.
Regularly on sale in Wetherspoons @ £1.99.
I never like to disappoint.
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>> Regularly on sale in Wetherspoons @ £1.99.
>>
>> I never like to disappoint.
Unlike the food in 'spoons.
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>> >> I can't remember the last time I bought a beer in a pub in
>> the UK at <£2.
>>
>> Regularly on sale in Wetherspoons @ £1.99.
>>
I suppose I asked for that, pub is such a generic term.
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>>WCPGW
What Could Possibly Go Wrong (with £2,500 on a 15 year old Jag...)
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>> Westpig also has/had one.
>>
Owned mine since 2002, it's sat on the drive with 82k on the clock, 16 years old.
Very little gone wrong with it........... and still not touched the exhaust (that can't be right, surely.. same with wife's 10 year old X Type).
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May I say how much I am enjoying this thread?
Just ticking toward 400 (four hundred!!) posts and we still ain't there yet!
Really well done chaps!
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It's gonna tick a little bit more..........still waiting for the phone to ring, but I think NF is right, now that I've waited this long I might as well try to see it out. And the only thing that's really caught my eye properly as an alternative is a 2006 Hyundai Sonata 2.4 CDX auto at £2.5k, 54k miles.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509056642188
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Looks like Uncle Zero knows best.
Electronic control module has now been swapped out, but the fault persists. It's one flap delivering air to the driver's side vent on the right of the steering wheel which is refusing to budge.
One of the partners at the dealer is an ex-Volvo dealer employee and is going to see if he can call in a favour and get some advice as to what might be the problem. If they can fix it via the dealer they will, cost depending. Dealer is quite open and said they've already dropped 500 sheets on parts so it's getting marginal as to whether they can put any more in.
If he can't fix it and can't sell it to me, I wonder what his course will be? Auction it and try to cut his losses? I suppose it depends on how much profit is in it at the deal price we agreed - £2400, to include service and cambelt, remember, which has been done, along with the aircon fix. So he's spent about £800 on it already.
I'm still minded to take the car if it's fixed, it seems a good bet and worth waiting for with the work which has been thrown at it.
I think we can work out why the former owner parted with it now, it has main dealer history and he must have taken it there with the ventilation fault and got a very nasty quote to repair.
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I would take the car if it was fixed. I might even take it it wasn't for a consideration. Dealer seems to have done his best. He seems to have done a reasonable job of communication, so probably a decent chap - albeit still a dealer.
What is the actual impact? Hot air instead of cold, no air ?
If at the end of the day they cannot repair it, then I would be considering how much I want the car vs how annoying is the fault vs what discount is available.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 28 Sep 15 at 16:42
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I agree, I would take the car fixed, or not for a small reduction.
Pat
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I would have had my deposit returned aeons ago. To say you have the patience of a saint is a massive understatement. Hope it works out to your satisfaction.
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Hot air is being delivered to one vent, driver's side right of the steering wheel even when cold requested. Can't live with that.
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>> Hot air is being delivered to one vent, driver's side right of the steering wheel
>> even when cold requested. Can't live with that.
>>
That's similar to what mine did when the heater control valve was faulty. It would seem they've gone for the control module as the fault, rather than the (cheaper) control valve.
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quick google suggests its a servo motor in the air box, cheap to source, very time consuming (labour) to replace.
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They have replaced 2 parts, so I expect both valve and module done, WP.
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Ask for £200 discount and stick some gaffer tape over it. Then in slower time see if you can get it fixed. Or not and keep the £200.
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Trust me... as someone who has spent a lifetime running older cars and helping others to run theirs without too much expense... there is enough potential for grief on an older complex exec level car as your ownership progresses without buying one with an annoying pre-existing fault.
IF (excuse caps use) you had a full Volvo diagnostic software yourself and IF you had the time/skills to remove small/larger parts of the trim/dash it MIGHT be worth taking it on at a £750+ discount... you see it's now a problem to retail so it's a trade car.... and an odd couple of hundred off wouldn't do it for me.
And even if they could bodge... I mean fix it to get you away off the forecourt... in 6mths time it or the other side goes again??
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 28 Sep 15 at 20:29
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I see what you're saying, F.
Tough call. I'll see what they come back with tomorrow.
Just noticed the dealer has put the ad back up on autotrader, but without the pictures. Looks like he wants me to walk and try to bodge it up and flog to someone less thorough than I.
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Fenlander has a good point.
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Just noticed the dealer has put the ad back up on autotrader, but without the
>> pictures. Looks like he wants me to walk and try to bodge it up and
>> flog to someone less thorough than I.
>>
I think you know what to do now. Start a new thread and we'll get you a good 'un :-)
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>> Just noticed the dealer has put the ad back up on autotrader,
I have thought for a long time that the dealer hopes you will go away.
In my experience old complicated cars do not make good banger motoring. You need something relatively simple and cheap / easy to fix. If this was a more basic car then a duff vent would probably be no more than a lever or cable needing attention.
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>>>In my experience old complicated cars do not make good banger motoring.
Sadly things are moving to the point where even more basic cars can be similarly troublesome... both Mrs F and eldest daughter's 11+yr old 1.4 Polos have similar control of aircon & vents so software (which I have had to use in anger) is needed to diagnose.
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Further....
It really is a lottery running an older exec level car and I know from my perspective with our current 5-series of 16mths had I needed to pay labour, full whack for parts and suffer someone else's random repair attempts it would have been uneconomic.
It's been totally reliable as far as never failing to start and never giving a moments concern even on long runs but every few months there's always a job.
The current one is the airbag lamp. First you need the full diagnostics to pin down the area of fault. And then the job... the passenger occupancy sensing mat is shorting out so needs changing. There is a £10 Ebay plug-in module bodge but I'm not cutting corners on such a safety critical part. So it's pasenger seat out and strip the leather covering off to replace the mat.
Being early retired I have the time and in a strange way will quite enjoy the job... even more so the reward of it being repaired at modest cost. But put it in a garage and with parts at retail plus a few hours labour for the sort of fiddly job most hate and it's going to cost.
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FL, agree with all you say.
A comment on that sensing mat in the seat - mine turned out to be a wire near the connector rather than the mat itself which is apparently equally common; I assume that you've checked that?
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The light's been on then cleared away OK previously and it's only just come on as a constant fault so not had a chance to physically check yet... just run the software to get the code. So yes will look at the wiring before taking the seat out.
That would be a lucky fix as I frequently (and stupidly) do what is known to kill those mats... carry heavy boxes of books or LPs etc on the front seat.... it was a monster subwoofer yesterday. If I have to go to the trouble of changing the mat I'll take more care with the new one.
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With mine I worked out it was the wire since the light recurred [mostly] when the seat had been slid backwards and forwards, rather than when it had simply been used.
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Yep had that with our Alfa the first time the seat was pushed right back and also with Peugeots in the past... cure on those was usually to use contact cleaner on the plug and put it back in with a cable tie holding the plug tight in the socket.
Sadly it's so likely I've caused the mat issue on the E39 with the things I've carried... also I read a heavy person kneeling in the seat can finish off an old mat.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 11:04
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I think I'm going to walk away today if a solution isn't presented. Couple of Accords to look at tomorrow, both with more miles on than I wanted but they're Accords, right? Bomb proof, right?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509016519257
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509277285991
Open to the floor: which one would be your choice and why?
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They are both at the same dealer? Should make comparison easy. Drive them back to back.
I had a 2.0 petrol auto CRV once - wish I'd never sold it. Heavy on fuel though.
Of those two, the saloon looks tidier. Take the estate premium away from the other, and he's asking less for it despite the higher spec., so maybe he thinks so too.
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Probably the saloon, on the grounds that you don't need another estate and you will probably be able to get it at a better price.
Still an old, complex car though. See Volvo passim.
};---)
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Had a 2.0 Accord of the previous generation (V reg IIRC); engine was slightly less powerful although 0-60 was a bit quicker. But it felt 'heavy' and you needed to work the gears, so if yours were manuals I'd suggest going for the 2.4. But they're not :)
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I'm always wary of estates, no one buys one then runs around empty. A test drive should give you an indication of the rear suspension.
Headlights look dull but that could just be the angle of the shot.
The saloon is a long way from where it was registered for a 1 owner car, where was home? Scottish winters and road salt can take its toll underneath.
Both are 12 year old cars, you need to assess condition.
Last edited by: gmac on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 12:13
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>> Both are 12 year old cars, you need to assess condition.
Never a truer word. Someone I know bought a 2004 CRV a couple of years ago, it looked decent on a walk round then and still does. It's a model I like, and there are plenty of good ones, but this is a dog. Everything seems to rattle unless it's seized, every little job on brakes or suspension has mushroomed into something bigger, the undertray has gone missing, it just hasn't been maintained properly despite some sort of supposed service history.
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>> I'm always wary of estates, no one buys one then runs around empty.
I do most of the time. I got an estate for the flat loading area at bumper level for the dog. In fact most estates spend most of their time not loading the suspension.
Nearly every estate I have looked at for buying has been barely used in the back. Those that have are obvious because the interior shows signs of scuffing where heavy stuff is slid in and out
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 12:27
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True. Even the ones that are loaded regularly tend to be used for volume rather than weight. A sideboard or a sheepdog weighs far less than three adults in the back seat of a saloon car, and the damage it causes is likely to be superficial. Towing is the use I'd be suspicious of - and you'd have to live with knowing caravanners had been in the car.
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>> Nearly every estate I have looked at for buying has been barely used in the
>> back. Those that have are obvious because the interior shows signs of scuffing where heavy
>> stuff is slid in and out
>>
I think that depends on the cars you've been looking at.
Small family car derived estates such as the Lancer, Auris, Civic etc tend to be bought by light use, private owners. Volvo V70 and the like generally bought as workhorses as used by the Police.
The Accord tends to be a private car, generally speaking, but with that long overhang at the back might be seen as a bit of a workhorse.
Our own estate gets loaded to the gunwhales from time to time not that you'd notice from the trim as it is lined with heavy plastic sheeting for protection.
I know this is all general, small estate cars can be abused, big workhorses can be cherished. Just a very broad brush thrown over estate cars.
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I would much rather have the estate. I like them and I find them much more convenient. Also the saloon looks a bit hooligan-ish for me.
However, in this case the estate looks rather well worn to me, so I'd guess that I would have to say "Neither".
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Appreciate everyone's comments. Where does the estate look worn to you, NF? I see a bit of mud in the boot, and I'm putting that down to a pooch. Overall it looks decent for 12 years old to me.
I think I lean toward the saloon, obviously that could change on inspection.
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>>Where does the estate look worn to you, NF?
Wheels, rear centre console, door inners, boot inner, passenger dash, number plates, drivers seat.
But who knows? its just photos so I could be completely wrong. I'd be interested to know though.
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Get the ref no off the V5, then you can look up the MOT history. This will confirm the mileage, useage pattern, and give a hint if there have been lots of fails and / or advisories.
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Sorry to say, neither. Primarily because I don't like the blue colour, and I couldn't see myself driving a car with a boot spoiler.
I would be looking to buy privately.... Newspaper ads, AT, supermarket car parks, for a 520 petrol. I'm biased having bought my ex MILs 520 off her and it never gave a minutes problem and was only sold when we needed another van. She had it from new and we bought it at several years old. Excelled in nothing in particular, but had lovely build quality, and that straight six is a peach.
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The saloon looks better cosmetically and is a one owner jobbie with less miles on the clock, but has a smaller engine.
If I didn't require an estate, I'd lean towards the saloon but, it depends how they check out on the day.
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I do like the blue, LL. Personal taste I guess. I'd rather not silver (again) to be honest, but I don't much care what colour I end up with.
I can hear the snorts and howls of derision from over the border in Wokingland already, but this might get a lookie over:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509166967358
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I have owned two blue cars. A dark metallic on an Audi, and a mid blue metallic on a Mazda 626. Also a flat blue on a VW Transporter.
I hope the viewing goes well
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Re the Saab.
I cannot understand why anyone would park a car on double yellows to take photos. It might be the quietest double yellow street in the world, but I still wouldn't. Must be me. Probably is!
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Howls about a 530 from Hounds Green, LL? Would being an import necessarily be a problem?
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509036571018
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I'm enjoying being back in a blue car after 13 years without one. Something essentially right about blue.
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>> I'm enjoying being back in a blue car after 13 years without one. Something essentially
>> right about blue.
I had a blue car once. The gear lever came off in my hand. It isn't called doom blue for nothing.
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It isn't called doom blue at all - thought that was the plain navy blue that reminded Cavalier 1.6L drivers that they weren't worthy of anything nicer. You could have that pre-facelift 9-5 in Cosmic Blue, similar to my Le Mans Blue today. (My 1998 9-3 was that colour too.)
The 9-5 HOT could be a wonderful thing if you have deep enough pockets. I never liked the non-linear speedo, though. The old linear 0-150 one was beautifully clear so I don't know why they messed with it; the non-linear one has too much space, like trying to read a book set in too big a typeface.
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>> I can hear the snorts and howls of derision from over the border in Wokingland
>> already, but this might get a lookie over:
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509166967358
Thats the exact one my son shot the big end on. Then the gearbox went. The car got traded in and he took a bath.
I am convinced you are a masochist.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 14:17
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Maybe, but as with most models for every tale of woe there are ten without problems. The 9-5 petrols are fine if they've had fully synth all their lives at the correct intervals.
Whatever I buy in this price range has the potential to go bad - I might as well get something I'm going to enjoy. It's just a weekend car after all.
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>>>www.car4play.com/redirect.php?http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509036571018
Oh for goodness sake.... an X reg large petrol auto! That's a tinkering enthusiasts car.
The list of potential enforced scrapping repair bills are endless. But here's just one... the auto boxes on E39s are now starting to fail frequently... £1000 for a bodge or £2000+ to do properly.
I see an overall problem with your quest for this exec auto... you're kind of flailing around in the dark with no real feel for any particular car make/model you'd really like and looking at a price point from Dealers where only 50% of the cost/value is in metal... the rest is their overheads/profit. They will all try and screw you over minimal prep/warranty & glossing over faults because that's the way to make money in the bottom of the market.
As said above at this age buy private... buy cheap... then spend some of the savings on initial work that becomes apparent.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 14:49
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Re Hondas linked above...
Estate more desirable in general... but all alloys scuffed and lots of apparently unsightly scuffs on interior as NoFM says... wonder how much a pair of rear silencers would be?
Silver petrol auto saloon not super desirable... wheels look too small in arches... seems a tidier car than the estate.
Both of course are candidates for failed transmissions... as are most 12+yr old exec cars but Accords have a track record... I think some sort of class action in the USA for early 2000 year models.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 15:03
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BTW Alanovic I don't get here much these days but kept looking in as I just had to know the final answer in the Volvo saga.
Re Hondas in general. I've rarely been drawn to used Japanese cars as historically parts prices have been wicked and some info/procedures hard to find.
However we've just helped yougest daughter buy a 2002 Jazz. I'm very impressed so far but it always has to be remembered that an old Honda is just an old car with the potential to suffer old car issues... in some mechanical areas they are above average but others no different to maintaining Citroen/Renault/Ford etc.
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My Mazda 6 is brill. I'd get another one of those, but I would prefer something a bit different as a second car.
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I currently run a 55 Accord estate. And I have to say neither. I paid a smidgen under 3k for it - and it's the super economic diesel - 4 years ago, with about 140 on the clock; it now has 160k. Are you really telling me that my depreciation has been £100 per annum... actually if you factor in the fact that mine is two years younger, then I've made a profit on it...?
You don't pay 2.5k for a 12 year old car. Great car though.
carswithnoreserve Reading on eBay is the place to go. It's like buying from auction, but it's a dealer so you have an element of comeback.
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www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507064955089
2007 version, 145k, 2.0 petrol, £2,495
Or, if it were me I'd get this one:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509156947516
2007, 105k, 2.2 diesel £2,495. It's Cat D, but that wouldn't worry me as I wouldn't be buying it for the resale value.
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Mapmaker, I want an automatic.
Auto Accords are rarer and pricier than manuals, it seems. And there are no diesel autos. I don't want diesel either.
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>>Mapmaker, I want an automatic.
Sorry, missed that somewhere in the 450 posts...
Do you really want an automatic *enough* to pay the same for a car as you could pay for one FIVE years younger with a manual box.
I mean it, he's on your doorstep. Look what your 3k would have bought you. Autos only listed here:
www.ebay.co.uk/sch/carswithnoreservereading/m.html?_sac=1&_armrs=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=auto&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
58 E220 with 173k £3500
55 E280 with 135k £3500
07 A4 with 232k for £1700
05 S type with 111 for £2700
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>> 58 E220 with 173k £3500
>> 55 E280 with 135k £3500
>> 07 A4 with 232k for £1700
>> 05 S type with 111 for £2700
MM, there's only one car there with a mileage I'd consider, and it's an Arfur Daley Jag with a face like a puffer fish - I've seen S Types with half that mileage for less money. And 232k on a Skoda in a frock? Insane. About 125k is the absolute outside I'd think about, and it'd have to be a really well maintained car. And my budget is 2.5k, not 3.5k.
I prefer an automatic because the wife doesn't want to drive manuals any more.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 16:18
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I guess you're right about private/dealers Fenlander, but you're forgetting I need to maximise the money I get for my current car with the least possible hassle - dealer exchange is the best route to that. I don't want to have to sell it privately.
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I can't remember what you were offered for the Saab, £800 was it?
You could perhaps save yourself that on a private purchase and then flog the Saab for scrap, or at least cheap.
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In theory.
In practice if you search autotrader today, you'll see that private sellers are asking the same money for similar cars to the 9-5 HOT I linked to earlier. For example:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509257224543
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509136876895
I'm not seeing this enormous value in private sales in the real world.
And this dealer car looks enormous value:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509247203838
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 15:32
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>>>I'm not seeing this enormous value in private sales in the real world.
True it doesn't always jump out at you in the first week or so of looking. Usually though the private folks ask as much as they hope you might pay... but get in front of them with £1200 cash for a car they're trying at £1800 or more and often you'll get lucky.
I can only speak from experience of two fairly recent examples... at £800 daughters Jazz was £800+ cheaper than anything similar in the dealers.
18mths ago Mrs F (not ideal but we had our reasons) bought a smart Polo fully prepped at a dealers for £3000+. In the same time period eldest daughter with my help bought a better condition Polo from a very genuine private seller just a year older for £1250.
Those private deals are out there if you keep looking.
And with the potential saving you could Ebay the old car and perhaps even with an honest description still get the £800 or so.
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But aren't private sellers notorious for overvaluing their vehicles? Understandable, since they don't sell very often, so they look at what dealers are asking, tell themselves, "My car's nicer than those because it's mine," and price accordingly. We don't, of course, know what they actually sell for.
The red 9-5 is a more sensible price if it's sound. Horrible colour, but Saabs have a way of looking good even in duff colours. The 2.0 LPT versions were very nice and smooth to drive, with very well integrated turbo boost.
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Eye of the beerholder and all that, I love the burgundy colour. Especially with the cream/beige interior.
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>> The red 9-5 is a more sensible price if it's sound. Horrible colour,
I like the colour, don't see anything wrong with it. What I don't really like is the 9-5, not a proper Saab at all but a Vauxhall. That said, I'm sure the one in the ad is perfectly all right and good for another 113,000 in careful hands. It just isn't a real Saab though.
Thirsty thing I notice, 31mpg not all that clever. Proper Saabs were always a bit thirsty too.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 16:22
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We've done this dozens of times, AC. Either you've not been in one, or you've not been in a Vauxhall.
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Yeah, my current 9-5 is worlds apart from a tinny Vectra.
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>> Yeah, my current 9-5 is worlds apart from a tinny Vectra.
I wouldn't doubt it Alanović. I said I liked the look of the red 9-5. I'm not running it down.
It isn't a Saab though! Saabs had an enormous tailgate and a vast space under it behind the front seats. That 9-5 looks like an ordinary booted saloon.
Years ago someone here had an old lime-green Saab, the one that should have had a smooth three-cylinder two-stroke engine and a freewheel, but actually had a rough-sounding and thirsty Ford V4 in this case. Looked good and sounded OK but wasn't very nice really.
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>> Yeah, my current 9-5 is worlds apart from a tinny Vectra.
Apart from its bucked up Vauxhall gearbox of course.
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>> >> Yeah, my current 9-5 is worlds apart from a tinny Vectra.
>>
>> Apart from its bucked up Vauxhall gearbox of course.
>>
Which is an Aisin Warner, which I don't believe is owned by Vauxhall.
Anyway, tonight I are mostly thinking about throwing in the towel and driving the current heap in to the ground.
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>>and driving the current heap in to the ground.
If only I'd thought of saying that before; like two months ago; say Wed 22 Jul 15 13:53 for example.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 19:13
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>> But aren't private sellers notorious for overvaluing their vehicles?
Yes very often the case, a classic case of forgetting the old adage that something is only worth what someone else will pay. Also I've come across some right private crooks and remember you have absolutely co comeback at all. I would still be looking for a car from a dealer since trawling around private addresses is time-consuming. How much do you value your evenings and weekends?
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>> I would still be looking
>> for a car from a dealer
I wouldn't, not at that price bracket.
You're in 'shark' territory potentially for one thing and how do you know who is and who isn't .. and secondly as NoFM2R has already posted, because of the dealer mark up you'll get less for your money.
An immaculate well cared for car is what you want, decent history, good quality tyres*, bodywork smart........ negotiate on the phone down to a sensible price, take a mate who's mechanically minded... there's plenty out there.
* cheap tyres = cheap everything else... and what other corners have been cut?
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I think you should drive the Saab until it breaks. Take out breakdown recovery for it secure in the knowledge that its value cannot drop below the £185 scrap value.
You're only risking £600 or so and every month it keeps going saves you money.
£2,500 - £800 (Saab not part-ex'd) + £185 (Saab scrapped) - £50 (AA recovery) = £1835
Which would buy you this... [leaving you £290 to ship me a kebab out of gratitude]
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509217115953
That took me 2 minutes. Might not be the perfect car, but it seems ok.
Your Saab will be ok for ages, giving you loads of time to pick and choose from available cars.
Somebody said, and I apologise for not remembering who, that one of your chief issues was not really knowing what you wanted. Well, realistically you've got time to sort it out.
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[I just noticed that one is diesel, but my point remains]
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>> ...but my point remains]
>>
He won't take the advice though... He's hell bent on buying a car that hasn't done more than 120,000 miles so will look at cars that are 12 years old. Rather than cars half the age with a few more miles. And really, what's the difference between 120,000 and 150,000?
OTOH, he's decided he has £2500 to spend, so is determined to spend that much.
And the oddest thing is that £2500 is his limit, yet he's happy to buy something very luxury that could easily go kaput shortly after with a potential bill of more than £2500 and thus write off his whole investment.
I can't quite work out the logic; I think he can't either... :) hence the desire to stick with what he has.
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*shrug*
Who said it had to be about cold, hard logic? We all suffer a bit of the man maths every now and again.
I fancy an old luxurious car, so what? Worse things happen. I'll survive, physically and financially.
If I change the car, I'll spend far less than £2500 if I can, but I have an upper limit. Nothing hard to understand there.
Failing to see the need for the patronising tone of your post. This is a car/motoring forum, not MoneySavingExpert nor mumsnet.
And a car for daily duties is never an investment. I'm savvy enough to realise that. They're all just money pits. It's just a cost. Everything costs. While I'm alive and I've got an income, I'll spend it however I like.
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>>Failing to see the need for the patronising tone of your post.
If you mean me, that wasn't my intention.
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>> If you mean me, that wasn't my intention.
I think he's probably aiming at mapmaker......
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>>I'm not seeing this enormous value in private sales in the real world.
In my experience its a matter of quality as much as price.
£1,500 from a dealer and £1,500 from a private seller gets you quite a different standard of car. To the point where I would and am quite happy to drive around in £1500 of something I bought privately, but much less comfortable with £1,500 worth of dealer car.
A dealer knows what he is doing. He is not going to sell you a car for £2,000 if he could sell it for £3,000. If it looks like a £3,000 for £2,000 then you are missing something or don't understand the market value of that car.
I would sell a car worth £2,000 for £2,000. Perhaps £1800 if I was in a hurry.
The dealer will add a profit margin to that and so will sell a £2,000 for £3,000. how can it be otherwise, its his living and he has a mortgage.
However, a dealer will know what the car is worth, irrespective of what he tries to sell it for. All too often private sellers do not know what a car is worth and overprice them.
So, its quicker and less effort to buy from a dealer, but ultimately you will pay for that convenience - if not in money, then in lost quality.
[watch Fenlander now shoot me down]
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>>>In my experience its a matter of quality as much as price. £1,500 from a dealer and £1,500 from a private seller gets you quite a different standard of car.
No need for target practice as you're spot on.
Take daughters Jazz we've just purchased. One family owned and very local... known to us for 3yrs. In typical 13yr old car condition as far as maintenance was concerned... i.e. costs kept to a sensible minimum as long as it passed the MOT and started every day. Very sound and genuine but a little tired looking.
Cost £800. I've spent almost exactly £800 on 4 tyres, alloy refurb, aircon repair, major service, new front brakes, battery, cloudy headlamp refurb, number plates and fixings.
So it's a £1600 car to me.
At local small time dealers we viewed a Jazz of the same age for £1600. It had another 30k recorded, not a jot of history, aircon faulty, filthy interior, balding budget tyres, oil like treacle, half the panels had minor town scrapes or had been sprayed just a little off colour, water in boot etc etc.
So the trade in facility and warranty of the dealer was of absolutely no added value to the vehicle condition which is what I majored on with the private purchase. The money I've spent making it a sparkling/reliable car would be dealer beer money.
i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/SealgairC420/Jazz%20C4P_zps9l0rkhd9.jpg
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>> [watch Fenlander now shoot me down]
>>
Couldn't agree more with your post NoFM2R.
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re the red Saab...thought you wanted auto?
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>> re the red Saab...thought you wanted auto?
>>
Blimey, how did I miss that? Still like the car so much I'd be prepared to consider it. I've become a massive 9-5 fanboy, despite my present tribulations. I've driven a manual 2.0t from the local specialist as a courtesy car, it was very, very nice.
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Can you not just draw a line under the vehicle you wish to dispose of and get rid via the auction route? I fully appreciate that your net value from selling it this way would be less than a dealer offers in p/ex, but that then opens up a whole new purchasing area. Trade and private. I would bite the bullet and dispose of via that particular avenue.
Sorry, but didn't realise it had to be an auto. I was thinking stick with a manual box, and an unstressed 520.
I would bide my time and look for a private sale from an elderly person who has owned the car for several years, lots of history, and is now downsizing to a Golf or similar. Lots do! I bought mine privately from a lady, who had owned it for two years, who had bought it from her friend, who had also owned it for two years. It was only about 80 miles away so I was fortunate. I have travelled some 200 miles on the train to buy a car privately for £950 several years ago. Then sold it to a friend after 3 trouble free years for £995, and all it cost was a full set of tyres and an annual oil change @ £50.
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Yep, great in theory until you've got a full time 8.30 to 5.30 job and two children to drive around either end of it and again on Saturdays.
I need to find the answer locally.
I can, of course, bide my time. That's what I'm doing already, and why I've been so patient regarding the Volvo.
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And my experience of buying privately, over many years, is that the asking price bears no resemblance to the eventual selling price in the real world. If you look at a car, like it but don't want to make what you might consider an insulting offer face to face, then leave it several days and send the vendor an email.....along the lines of ' sorry, but I sent my car to auction and received far less ££ than anticipated'. They can only say no.
Being awkward with the seller and saying 'that's my offer, take it or leave it' is not very nice. I try to build up a nice rapport with the seller, and his family if I go inside the house to look at documents.
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Sorry, I didn't appreciate your family commitments.
I was a retail shop(s) owner, 6 full days a week so did it all on a Sunday when I had no one else to consider. Different set of circumstances to you, but still worth keeping an eye out in supermarket car parks. Just don't walk up & down parked lines of cars!
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No worries LL, we've all got different needs and circumstances, that's why there are myriad different ways of going about things and we all just have to choose the route most suitable to ourselves. For me at the moment that points to finding as good a car as I can from a local dealer, although I appreciate all the advice on here and if I spot a local private deal which catches my eye I'll go for it. Silly to rule it out entirely.
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>>>Being awkward with the seller and saying 'that's my offer, take it or leave it' is not very nice. I try to build up a nice rapport with the seller, and his family if I go inside the house to look at documents.
Totally agree. The sort of angle I use is not to run the car down and keep it all cheery... have a look at the docs which gives the signal you're serious. Then say we're keen on the car but have a tight budget to include taxing it, a couple of tyres & a few jobs we would want to do... so I'm not going to insult you with an offer but can you give us the best price for a cash sale right now... we'll take it away immediately.
It's amazing how often... to take an example... with a car up at £1800 they might say well we're going on holiday next week (or whatever) so the cash would come in handy... how about £1400.
I reply that's a little more than we were thinking of sadly but never mind... as if to leave it. They will chip in with how much did you want to pay and I'll say £1200 and I can pay right now (note I have just insulted them with an offer).
They will say how about £1300 and I'll reply I can see they're genuine folks so I didn't want to haggle and that was where I needed to be with the price.
Usually I'd be driving away in the whatever at £1200 with everyone all smiles. I like a friendly deal.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 29 Sep 15 at 16:05
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When I bought my 330 I went along with the ex. She got on famously with the lady of the house, whose car it was, and I spoke with her husband who was selling the car. They spent 30 minutes in her kitchen discussing children, cooking etc whilst I looked closely at the vehicle. I'm no mechanic, and was unable to drive it because their home was out in the sticks at the end of a few hundred yard icy track. It needed a major service, four new tyres, and I had the cost of a towbar to consider ( in hindsight a waste of money as I only use it a few times a year for garden tip runs).
I went home, did the costings and emailed an offer. The offer was accepted subject to payment by cheque, no cash, we had to clear the draft at her bank, and I had to pay & collect the following week when the ice was gone. Big smiles all round, which is the scenario I hope for when the time comes to sell it.
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I feel you, gents, on the private sales. Best one I ever had was buying a Volvo 360 off a retired couple for £150 including the 6 months remaining VED. Had a lovely chat over a cuppa, talked about various common interests, gassed about the lovely Lancia Dedra they had bought to replace the Volvo. Like I say, if I see something private, I'll go for it, I'm not ruling it out.
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>>I feel you, gents, on the private sales
You better not, that's extra.....
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When a Trade advert says warranty available or 6 months warranty or similar..ask what that entails. At the bottom end of the market it means 'Sale of Goods Act'... which you're entitled to anyway and is often difficult to get any money out of them.
Furthermore, for the 3 years I was trading cars, I'd sometimes ring a private seller if they had something a customer wanted and I couldn't find anything elsewhere... you'd be amazed what you can get knocked off the price on the phone... you need to say something like "I'm looking for this sort of car, if the price is right, what is the lowest you'd take".. and then you have to keep quiet...even if there's a deathly silence...he who speaks first loses.
You can't always do it, but overall I'd be looking at least £400 off, if not more, for the ones that I was successful with...and that's on the phone.
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>>Being awkward with the seller and saying 'that's my offer, take it or leave it' is not very nice. I try to build up a nice rapport with the seller, and his family if I go inside the house to look at documents.
Were you ever in the double glazing game Ll.
:}
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No Perro
I would be hopeless in sales, although strangely enough both the ex and exex were/are great in that field. Attraction of opposites I s'pose.
Once had the Dolphin showers people around in a previous life. My exex spent all evening making mental notes of his sales techniques, long after my eyes had glazed over. To be fair, both of them would not sell a product to a customer if they thought it wasn't right for them, or if it was shortly to be reduced in price.
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One of my elder brothers worked for Everest and Anglian at various times back in the 80's and 90's. Smarmy git, well-spoken and presentable, he did quite well out of the game.
One of my sisters sons was the very worst type of double glazing salesman - another smarmy, well-spoken, presentable type. He would do/say anything to make a sale. He lives in Florida now, near Naples. He's got the lot, land, horses, RV, boat etc. etc. But, he can't come back to blighty to visit his old (83) mum, because he wouldn't be able to return to the states, as he is an illegal alien.
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>> Can you not just draw a line under the vehicle you wish to dispose of
>> and get rid via the auction route?
e-bay is far better... be honest with the advert..and see what it reaches... sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised.
The problem with the auction route is most traders will avoid it like the plague, because they'll assume (correctly) that there's something wrong with it, so that only leaves the odd private punter.
When I bought from the auction, I'd look up the seller and see what sort of stuff they usually sell on their forecourt...and if they'd usually sell what was in fact in the auction, i'd automatically avoid. Same with single sellers. I'd only buy from bigger dealers who legitimately might sell that car because it didn't fit their forecourt marque or was older than or had higher mileage than what they'd usually sell.
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>>> right private crooks and remember you have absolutely co comeback at all. I would still be looking for a car from a dealer since trawling around private addresses is time-consuming...
At least a private sale at a good price doesn't require any comeback... you take the risk on knowingly. Trying to get more than the odd Chinese tyre out of a dealer selling 12yr old vehicles is usually a nightmare. Any warranty work will likely be resisted and if undertaken often outsourced to some pretty rough outfits using secondhand or budget parts with limited understanding of specialist issues on certain makes.
Regarding trawling round private cars... you don't... you "qualify" the seller and the car on the phone knocking out 80% of the possibilities just viewing the core ones of interest. This is easier to do with private cars as there is no excuse for the seller not knowing all about the vehicle. So often on the phone the dealers have minimal info as they just don't know the cars that well so you have to travel.
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Alanovic, it sounds as if you are preparing to do what I think I'd do in your position: if the current Saab is still capable of starting and running, hang on and wait for the right car to come up somewhere within range.
If you want 'good to drive' and don't mind about the badge, include a 2.0 petrol Focus or Mondeo in the search. You'll probably get a newer car for your budget, and there are more of them around.
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Yeah, thanks Avant. I've spotted a 2.5 V6 Mondeo Ghia X auto locally, but although it's nice and low on the miles it's got a tow bar and roof rack. Hmm.
www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508246306173
Probably run out of time this week/weekend to view things though, so I'll sleep on the situation until next week. Off to the Rugby World Cup for a couple of days in Cardiff tomorrow. Beers ahoy.
Not aimed at Avant, but just in general: I may or may not take the advice of any individuals on this thread, however I hope everyone appreciates that whatever decision I take it'll be mine and I'm quite a big boy and can take the risk of any negative consequences. So all the "he's not going to do what Daddy/Uncle says, what a silly boy" stuff is all a bit unnecessary. Just enjoy the search with me if I decide to change the car, and prepare your ribbings if it all goes mammaries skywards. It's just a car and couple of quid in the great scheme of things.
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Quite right, Vić, go your own way, just as you did with that big Renault. What did we know?
};---)
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I enjoyed the Renault while I had it. Lovely car. No regrets.
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>> I enjoyed the Renault while I had it. Lovely car. No regrets.
That is most definitely not what you said when you were sourcing electrical parts for the umpteenth time, and the tailgate tried to take your head off and then the strut drew blood.
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Character, mate. Like all the folks who enjoy living in a draughty Victorian money pit because it's got a pretty fireplace and a ceiling rose.
Yeah, I swore at it a few times but I loved driving it. Ying and yang, hardly alien concepts.
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Yeah, all those times he's proven us wrong.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 10:04
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See, there's the thing. I don't car if I turn out to have been "wrong" about something. It happens. What does "wrong" mean in this context anyway? I've got the "right" car as my daily driver already.
So many of you seem so determined that you have to be right on the internet with a total stranger that you're missing the point. It's just a cheap car I'm talking about and I want to enjoy my cars. If I wasn't like that I would just buy a brand new white Hyundai i20 on tick and I certainly wouldn't be entertaining you all on here with my scarcely semi-logical exploits and interesting procession of crappy cars. I know I'm a bit mad. Big deal.
What do you want to do on here all day, discuss how a Honda Jazz never let anybody down? It'd be a bit of a poor forum and I'm sure there are Honda Jazz owners' forums out there dedicated to folks saying, day after interminable day, "Morning, Marjorie, everything hunky dory with the 6 month old Jazz still? Why yes, Norman, yes it is. Same time tomorrow"?
Can anyone tell work's a bit slack at the moment for me? ;-)
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At the risk of repeating myself, we had a (manual) 2.5 V6 Mondeo of the previous generation, although unlike the Accord(s) I think our engine was the same as yours. Poverty spec (no alloys or air con), but loved the engine.
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>> At the risk of repeating myself,
Don't worry, plenty of that going on here already.
;-)
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Alanovic remind me... I guess everyone else knows... what is the usage for this car and how does it fit into any other cars you have?
Edit:
>>>and I want to enjoy my cars
Alfa...Alfa...Alfa..Alfa...
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 10:15
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Fenlander, It's going to be used pretty much only at weekends when the family splits and does a couple of different activites. FOr instance, I take the boy to football, the wife takes the girl to tennis. Minimal use/mileage. Our existing Mazda 6 estate is the family daily/school run/commuter car.
That's it, really. It's why I don't need to worry about fuel consumption and can enjoy something a bit special/impractical.
I do not need the most sensible option.
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OK... so it doesn't need to be totally practical but is there any interest in a sporty hatchback in auto form... just to widen the net so to speak?
Or does a comfy cruiser appeal?
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>> OK... so it doesn't need to be totally practical but is there any interest in
>> a sporty hatchback in auto form... just to widen the net so to speak?
>>
>> Or does a comfy cruiser appeal?
>>
I'm more into comfy cruisers as it goes. I like a big, smooth, comfy car. Do not want a hatchback really. Big hatches are OK, Mondeo sized and the like.
I'm tempted with Toyota Camrys but they're like rocking horse crap. Volvo S80, same story.
So - auto, comfy, wafty, bit of poke, those sort of things float my boat. Or barge I suppose. I'm done with the GTi type stuff, I had a few shonky Alfa 33s back in the day.
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So, what you need is my old 9-5 Aero estate automatic, which needs TLC and a bit of time spent on it. Can't claim that it's a looker though at the moment with the various dings!
Edit: just seen the 100k miles bit - is 230k close enough? ;-)
Last edited by: Mike H on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 15:08
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>> Alfa...Alfa...Alfa..Alfa...
>>
Except................automatic is preferred.
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Now that is a left field suggestion.
My 10 year old son isn't an obsessive like me, but he has an appreciation of the motor car and can recognise most marques. Whenever we see one of these he shouts: "Urgh, look one of those horrible ugly Chryslers!"
I'd never live that one down.
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Same colour as my Forester. I nearly bought a Ludmobile not too long ago, but it was the thought of those white moccasins which put me orf.
:o}
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It's just now knowing your use... the low miles and weekend only use then you can take a chance more than the daily commute machine. I've always thought the Cruisers were odd looking... but would stop short of ugly.
I too am freed from the need of a sensible car and it's why I decided not to lease again after my C5... being early retired and with other cars in the household it wasn't a total disaster if my car was off the road for repairs. That thinking was what released me into the Alfa then old 5-series adventures.
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>> with other cars
>> in the household it wasn't a total disaster if my car was off the road
>> for repairs. That thinking was what released me into the Alfa then old 5-series adventures.
>>
Bingo. Someone gets it.
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[PT Cruiser] is a left field suggestion.
You're suggesting it should be left in a field?
Bingo. Someone gets it.
Yes, but check FL's comments about being able to scrounge parts and supply his own labour. The model would collapse if he had to pay full whack for either of those.
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Well I do a lot of my own servicing and have been known to do some repairs too. Also, I'm happy to experiment, learn and expand my skills.
At my intended mileage, problems and bills should be minimal, but again - I'm willing to accept the risk of a few bills to have something I'll enjoy.
We're not all Lawrence Logic. I sometimes sit in the living room on a weekend wishing I had some kind of car-related work to do out in the garage.
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I considered a Chrysler Sebring earlier in the thread, similar age at similar money. But I wouldn't buy a Cruiser.
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>> he shouts: "Urgh, look one of those horrible ugly Chryslers!"
Sounds like Mrs F :)
I quite like the look of them - something different like you say - although I prefer the Mondeo because of its engine. And don't forget AC drives a Chrysler...
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BTW Alanovic I'm searching nearer me I know... these are just examples. So how about this privately... looks really neat... less of a barge than the 5-series... bet it would come for £1200 cash... plenty in hand compared with the sort of dealer prices you've been looking at for similar age.
www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509247200962
>>> check FL's comments about being able to scrounge parts and supply his own labour. The model would collapse if he had to pay full whack for either of those.
Fair(ish) point but bear in mind I maintain mine to an obsessive degree and there is middle ground which can be managed with local garages... but only if the start price is right... i.e. preferable not at £2500 for a £1000ish car.
That's my main point for Alanovic from all I've posted... it is worth the hassle top buy private as that saving gives such a huge buffer.
Humour me Alanovic... put your search in for auto cars up to £2500 for private sales only within say 30mls of you... no other filters. Is there anything that catches your eye as a possibility?
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 11:08
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>> Humour me Alanovic... put your search in for auto cars up to £2500 for private
>> sales only within say 30mls of you... no other filters. Is there anything that catches
>> your eye as a possibility?
>>
That Beemer is nice. 55 Miles from me, not insurmountable in theory.
OK, search results. I've added 100k as max miles and 2-2.5l engine size to thin it out to 50 vehicles. Most interesting as follows (WARNING: CONTAINS SAAB MATERIAL AND A SEMI- SUV - POPCORN/LARGE MUG OF TEA REQUIRED):
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509237179150
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509136887421
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509187040665
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509136882612
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509287317032
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509227137584
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509267256029
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509267256029
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Where's Stu these days?
In the 10 weeks this thread has been running he'd have offloaded one car, bought another, searched for a third, offloaded the second and be on his third set of wheels.
Definitely not a distress purchase this one.
Al, have you considered a Volvo S60 petrol? :-o
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>> Where's Stu these days?
Didn't he say he was trying some sort of social experiment to try and live without the internet for a while?
Either that or he's busy entertaining Nigel Farage.
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Yes, here's the missing link (not a picture of BiggerBadderDave happily):
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509166957545
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"Yes, here's the missing link (not a picture of BiggerBadderDave happily):"
Well, I can't be the missing link since all the women say it's the finest Homo Erectus they've ever handled...
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>> "Yes, here's the missing link (not a picture of BiggerBadderDave happily):"
>>
>> Well, I can't be the missing link since all the women say it's the finest
>> Homo Erectus they've ever handled...
>>
Is that the estate version?
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>> www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509247200962
Argh, didn't realise the 3-series had a floor hinged accelerator pedal. Yuck. My Touran had one of those wretched things, a stone got stuck under it once and jammed it. Horrible experience. I consider those things a genuine safety hazard.
Does the 5-series have the same? Must be some perverse German obsession, a hangover from the original Beetle.
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Seems to be a German thing; both my German cars have them. To be honest I don't really notice; my natural foot position meets the pedal at an angle, so I don't plant my entire hoof on it. I find it just as comfortable as the other kind, and in 40,000 miles or more it's never caused trouble with stones or anything else.
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Yeah, never worried about them until the stone thing. Once I'd managed to save everyone's life and stop the vehicle safely, it was an absolute swine of a pig of a job to get the stone out, and I thought I was going to have to have the car towed to get the pedal removed at a garage.
*shudders at memory*
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Ok while my next village farm made free range chicken pie cooks...
Yes the old 5-series has an organ throttle... but... and I've just been out to try it... it's been made so there is no place for a stone of any size to get trapped... so a nice 3 series tourer back on the list please!
As for the rest... quick gut feelings... assuming all about the same re paperwork and genuine sellers...
Avensis... not that exciting but could be the most sensible buy of them all.
Outlander... outlandish uber bus.... rather a Cruiser.
Saab... again... really!
Jaguar... Hmm not sure... I could be tempted... but a bit town publican? Does Westpig run one... he'll know far more than me.
BMW 3-series... I'd prefer the Tourer I linked.. but if they'd drop a fair bit might be OK.
Mondeo GhiaX estate... I'd be very tempted... the firm ride on those large alloys the only downside to the one I ran a while back and really liked.
BMW 5-series... just too old... a lot are rusting badly in the sills at that age... only a set of upsized alloys and window tint away from a town drug dealers car.
So for me with your stated needs and if it were a choice from that list I'd phone after the Mondeo GhiaX in your post and the 3-series tourer that I linked.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 12:33
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Not exactly an embarrassment of riches, is it F?
Of all of those, nothing at all really makes me want to pick up the phone. Your 3-series is probably the best of the lot. I'd have to check that awful pedal very closely if I looked at one though, see if I can get a stone stuck in it. Don't suppose the most friendly of sellers would be happy with that, though.
Looking at them all again myself, well the Avensis, meh.
Outlander, SUV. Gawd what was I thinking.
Saab - never been in an accident, eh seller? What's that massive hole in the front bumper then?
Jag - advert reeks of dealer pretending to be a private seller.
3-series - pricey, can I be bothered to haggle that much?
Mondeo - Mondeo. Meh.
5-series, as you say too old.
Do you see my problem? Wish to god that vent on the Volvo wasn't bust, really.
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Actually no I don't see the problem. I'd happily use the Mondeo or 3-series tourer.
I mean look at it another way... a whole load of comfy £25/30,000 cars when new for £1500 or so... it's not that bad??
Take your own selection of gravel when checking out BMWs then... no-one's going to mind... talk about you when you leave perhaps.
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Looked at the updated Accord link. OK but at £600 less I'd rather the Mondeo.. I think fewer autobox worries and I'm a bit partial to cream leather.... only negative is seller's weedy drive.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 13:11
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I'm not yet seeing a massive difference in price nor quality between private and dealer sales either to be honest. And there are far, for more cars available from dealers - with the above search parameters it's 142 vs 50.
End of the day, if a car's right and I'm happy with the price, I don't care too much where it comes from, private or trade. But with the numbers out there, it's more likely to come from trade I expect.
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>> Actually no I don't see the problem. I'd happily use the Mondeo or 3-series tourer.
Well they may be OK for you, but for me a Mondeo is a bit boring when I'm after something which will put a smile on my face when I look out of the window, and I don't like the look of those 3 series throttle pedals, notwithstanding I'm not hugely keen on the BMW brand and image overall either.
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>>>not hugely keen on the BMW brand and image overall either.
Nor me... this is only our second BMW in 80+ cars we've owned. I have to reluctantly admit though it's design has been refined to think of so many things... large and small... that make it a very usable load carrier/comfy cruiser. Having worked on it in many areas it's beautifully crafted too... better than similar age Mercedes I've looked after.
There's nothing wrong in your choice needing to pass the "looking at it on the drive" test but it's perhaps more obvious why It's hard to advise if you see a top spec Mondeo so far from a Laguna in the appeal stakes.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 13:29
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Yeah, sure it's very nice, and I'd prefer a 5 over a 3 for size reasons if I went for a BM. The 3 is a bit titchy.
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Might get this in your budget...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509046607310
One owner, low mileage, real luxo-barge.
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Hoo, that's lovely, but really, really strong money for a 17 year old car.
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Get your haggling boots on then. It pre dates CO2 VED which is pushing the price up for some older big engined cars. Don't ask you don't get...
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From memory, the noisy thirsty Accord we test drove had...ahem..an organ pedal accelerator.
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>> Hoo, that's lovely, but really, really strong money for a 17 year old car.
>>
Ring him up, ask him what his lowest price is...it's only the cost of a phone call.
Whatever he says, tell him you were thinking of nearer £2,000 and if that's a no, leave your contact details so he can get back to you after thinking about it.
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WP, I've got 1500 quid in cash, give or take a hundred or two. And a car I would like to realise 800 quid from.
If you were selling a car with an asking price of 3k, would you be happy with me wasting your time, even on a phone call? I'm not prepared to mess someone around, treat others how you would wish to be treated is my outlook.
If I buy something privately it's got to be achievable at around £1500, then I can dispose of the SAAB afterwards. I can't go around offering people £2-2.5k on the condition that the subsequent 10-day eBaying of the SAAB will produce £800 (WBAC offers a derisory £300). It's just wasting everyone's time. And I'm not prepared to sell the SAAB and then hang around for the right car privately, I need two cars on the drive. OK, want is probably a better word than need, but that's how I want to go about it.
And this Legend is 100 miles away making it an even bigger potential waste of time and effort for me and him. It's a nice car, I'd like it, but it's not practical.
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Sorry, my bad as some might say. I thought the budget was £2.5k forgetting it might only be £1800 depending on which way the wind is blowing.
Wonga.com ? That is a joke by the way...
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 14:34
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No worries, gmac, I really enjoyed reading that ad. Lovely motor.
One of the things that is tempting me to do as NoFM suggested (although the thought had occurred to me anyway) and keep the SAAB until it breaks is a far more flexible financial position which will open up next summer when one of my nippers leaves private school for state. That'll be £1200 a month freed up from the family budget (don't forget I've got 2 nippers in that school and a mortgage in SE England on a biggish house in a good neighbourhood, so we're not exactly awash with spare spending dosh), and we could finance something nearly new. So if the SAAB lasts that long, we could ditch that next year and keep the Mazda as Car 2. But If I get something which I'd like to keep as a second car now we could trade the Mazda for a nearly new something next year. Which would mean I'd better get something a bit special if I'm doing it now.
I'm sure some will favour Position A and some will favour Position B.
And yes, I'm overthinking it all. I know. It's Carmpulsive Obsessive Disorder, but there is no medication.
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With those monthly commitments Al I'm surprised you can run one car nevermind two. Anyway, your money, your life. If you still want a Volvo you owe it to yourself to get a real one:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508316503508
Chatsworth House on wheels. It's amazing what can be found out there at the minute...
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 20:18
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I'd have that V90 in seconds.
Love it.
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>> I'd have that V90 in seconds.
>>
>> Love it.
>>
Bit odd, efffectively no MoT! What does the owner know?
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It's just a bargaining chip.
No point in MOTing it until you've got your sale or it's the 23rd Oct.
12 months MOT would be on any buyers list.
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MoT due in a month, what's wrong with that? If the owner's recently deceased it may not be his top priority.
NoFM evidently gets the same feeling about last-of-the-line Volvos as I do when I contemplate a Saab 900 Ruby.
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MoT due in a month, what's wrong with that?
The potential for very large bills perhaps?
Like other people have said in this thread, at this price point old lux barges can swallow huge amounts of £. Short Mot gives very limited opportunities to move it on. Maybe an OK buy if you are equipped with model specific knowledge or a tame MoT tester:)
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As gmac says, its a bargaining chip, not necessarily a show stopper.
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Yep unless you're a gambler and feeling lucky a short MOT on an old exec needs treating with caution. However genuine the reason for the seller not renewing it insist they do so unless you build in a massive price reduction buffer.
A complex suspension job... fiddly to access brake line corrosion... emissions related failure... brake overhaul... ABS/airbag lamp issues... are all possibilities and £500 might not go very far sorting it.
It's an old tank that wouldn't get me misty eyed... particularly with the drug dealer window tint. Even in that condition and with MOT it's a £1000 car.
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>> >> I'd have that V90 in seconds.
>> >>
>> >> Love it.
>> >>
>>
>>
>> Bit odd, efffectively no MoT! What does the owner know?
Its been clocked. the 0 in 109 is out of line.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 30 Sep 15 at 22:56
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>>>Its been clocked. the 0 in 109 is out of line. <<<
It is so far out of line the 9 is an 8?
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Yep let's get real on that Legend. It's pure barge. In its day it never cut it besides its target market competitors. Wasn't that fast for that huge engine and very poor economy. Handing more yank tank that UK mixed roads use. Didn't get the suspension comfort right either as they were too crashy in town for an exec car.
Looks ungainly at both ends from the side and the style of those alloys is pure pound shop plastic trims.
If you really fancied one a punt at £500-750 for a less hyped example might give a few months fun in the similar way I couldn't go wrong with my old Alfa at that price point
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If you've looked at Mondeos, have you considered a Vauxhall Vectra 2.2 petrol - plenty were sold as auto's, low prices due to fuel consumption but lots still in very good condition.
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It's a good call Paul if Alanovic wanted just a weeknd car that would do car things... but could he cope with a doom grey Vectra with matching doom grey interior!
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Eight years ago when we moved house, I noticed at the top of the village a smart looking black Vectra with nice alloys and thought - that's in good condition for a four year old car. Still looks just the same and now it's 12.
I know what you mean, not quite the same image as a Volvo S60.....
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There are loads of Vectras in our village... in quite long term ownership too and they seem to get on with it year in year out... they are nearly all grey though.
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Early (Can't remember the years) V6 Mondeos in manual were a reasonably swift car. Auto's not too bad. In later years they became very breathless and a bit of a task to drive in the manner that one would expect them to be.....i.e. with plenty of torque from low down the range. A colleague has a very tidy estate in good nick with everything working as it should. It needs too many revs to make it go and it is a bit of a trial to enjoy. I always hankered after one, but sadly not now.
De-catted and with some decent breathing apparatus it is likely to be a different proposition.
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>> There are loads of Vectras in our village... in quite long term ownership too and
>> they seem to get on with it year in year out... they are nearly all
>> grey though.
>>
Cars or Owners?
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Good point... a bit of both I guess.
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>> If you've looked at Mondeos, have you considered a Vauxhall Vectra 2.2 petrol
How about a 3.2?
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>> >> If you've looked at Mondeos, have you considered a Vauxhall Vectra 2.2 petrol
>>
>> How about a 3.2?
>>
£490 rfl or more perhaps?
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What Zero says. A wrong un.
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>> >> >> If you've looked at Mondeos, have you considered a Vauxhall Vectra 2.2 petrol
>> >>
>> >> How about a 3.2?
>> >>
>> £490 rfl or more perhaps?
Well the ad says £290 for this estate over in Newbury, although I don't think that's one of Al's primary concerns. However the fact that it's still a Vauxhall Vectra might be :)
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509287310392
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No Vectras thanks, and the Volvo V90 is niceish, but I agree 100% with Fenlander's appraisal of it. 2 grand? Nowhere near.
£490 RFL only kicks in on cars registered after 23 March 2006. Weird date but there you go. For gas guzzlers you want 55 reg or earlier, or you need to get lucky on an 06 plate registered in early March 2006. It is a consideration on a cheap, infrequently used car, no way I'm coughing nearly 500 quid a year on RFL. So unless the CO2 is 225g or less, it has to be 55 plate or earlier.
Why it wasn't 1 March to make it clear that all 06s go in the higher bracker I'll never understand.
I'm parking the subject till next week now, off to Cardiff for beer and rugby later today.
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You might miss this if you're off but...
For a family weekend runabout does it have to be a big car?
Just a couple to run past you...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508286438643
Marmite car I guess. I'd have one on the drive.
And this mix of useful sensibility but with a bit of grunt...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509156939516
And this which I wouldn't be comfortable with...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509237165224
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 1 Oct 15 at 09:26
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Did you leave Al? Did we find out whether or not the Volvo was definitely not happening?
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Dunno yet NF. Might ring the bloke from the train later. Busily tidying up some work loose ends at the moment.
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I'd consider those Focusless, but much over 1.5k in a priavte sale doesn't work for me.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 1 Oct 15 at 10:44
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No 2 doors cars, Fl. Golf estate looks nice, reservations about that particular engine aside. Might investigate next week. Thanks.
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>>And this which I wouldn't be comfortable with...
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509237165224
If I was flogging (or owned) that MINI, I'd have to get THAT roof sprayed mucho quicko ...
With the UKIP motif.
:}
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I imagined the flag roof was just a stuck-on film that could be peeled off under the influence of a hot-air gun.
Anyway, one legacy of the 2012 Olympics is that we've reclaimed the flag from the Ukip-BNP lunatic fringe, and can enjoy it for what it is. It would have bothered me a few years ago; not now.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 1 Oct 15 at 11:01
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>>one legacy of the 2012 Olympics is that we've reclaimed the flag from the Ukip-BNP lunatic fringe, and can enjoy it for what it is. It would have bothered me a few years ago; not now.
But surely you wouldn't, for one moment, drive a car with a union jack on the roof Will.
I certainly wouldn't, and I'm as British as chicken korma.
:}
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>> But surely you wouldn't, for one moment, drive a car with a union jack on the roof Will.
>> I certainly wouldn't, and I'm as British as chicken korma.
I can't help wondering why, Perro. Does it seem too vulgarly sixties for the sober present day?
I still remember that explosion of Union Flags all over everything, along with flared crushed velvet trousers from the Che Guevara boutique and other things too horrible and fussy to remember.
For a moment there it felt like a sort of liberation, before turning out to be an orgy of bad-taste décor and schmutter...
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>>I can't help wondering why, Perro. Does it seem too vulgarly sixties for the sober present day?
Well, I love anything to do with the sixties Sire, as you know. I reckon a car with a union jack on the roof could well be target by some ne'er-do-well toad-like scallywag ... and it is a tad vulgar IMO.
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>> And this mix of useful sensibility but with a bit of grunt...
>>
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509156939516
Good Lord. A Golf V5 estate? Auto? Thats has got to be as rare as RHS. I am tempted by that myself.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 1 Oct 15 at 12:36
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>> A Golf V5 estate? Auto? Thats has got to be as rare as RHS. I am tempted by that myself.
I was thinking along the same lines as it happens - a nice V5 engine mated to an autobox.
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I know the OP has dissed a 3 series beemer but, palomine has one of these which replaces his V70 on which the autobox blew up. He reckons "S'luvly to drive - smooth quiet en powerful wiv better mpg than the vulvar. The auto box is very intuitive and the tiptonic bit is fun to use too".
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509247200962
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I agree... i had a 325 e46 Tourer and it was a great car. Very well made, engineered and well understood and thus fairly easy to fix and parts easy to come by. The major weakness was the suspension bushes and lower control arms and possibly a bit thirsty in Auto form
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IIRC the V5 suffered issues with the cylinder head / gasket due to unequal stresses of the V5.
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Isn't the timing chain at the flywheel end of that engine?
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>> Isn't the timing chain at the flywheel end of that engine?
Yes, and wears. But at 45k miles with 13 services, I would think its in pretty good knick.
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>> >> Isn't the timing chain at the flywheel end of that engine?
>>
>> Yes, and wears. But at 45k miles with 13 services, I would think its in
>> pretty good knick.
>>
Indeed if the services have been carried out and not just invoiced!
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>> Indeed if the services have been carried out and not just invoiced!
As long as they have changed the oil. Its the easiest job to do and the easiest to check/confirm has been carried out, so its usually the minimum that gets done.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 2 Oct 15 at 01:23
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I was accused of being patronising earlier up the thread by Alanović. My apologies. I wasn't trying to be patronising. It was more concluding that there was no logic in the thread!
Having read down to the bottom (been away for a couple of days), I think we now do have some logic. And I think the sensible budget for an elderly luxobarge where it doesn't really matter if it doesn't work as life can cope without a car is definitely well under £1k. I think the mileage should be irrelevant, too - obviously you don't want a scruffy shed, but provided it's been looked after, most modern cars are good for 200k or more.
All within 30 miles of Reading station, All Autos, nothing with high mileage. Mostly 'part ex to clear' cars, and all for less than you should get for the SAAB.
Maybe it has no MOT, as it's not listed, but I think the S type is a most attractive car. If I didn't need an estate car, I'd have one.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510027439497
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506114245755
This won't have enough poke for you:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510017409497
SAAB:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509177012997
This Volvo might not be smart enough for you.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509146915463
An MB
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509247201516
A couple more gorgeous MBs, the second in full leather:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509177000037
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509156946038
And a Lexus with FSH and changed belts for under 1k.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509267271156
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Mon 5 Oct 15 at 11:05
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Hey MM, thanks for the post, apologies for jumping to conclusions.
Latest update is that the S60 dealer is still trying to fix the car's ventilation system, and has ordered two replacement flaps from Sweden which have a three week lead time apparently. I have told him enough's enough and he's given me my deposit back. The car is back on autotrader, pics and all.
Today I'm pondering a scrap gearbox for the current SAAB again. The rest f the car's so good, if I can do it for 500 quid I'd be happy. So I'm going to do some ringing around this week. I've come to the conculsion that, having spent weeks looking for something to replace it with, I can't find much that I'd want to have more than my existing car.
The one I've been tempted to go and get in your links, MM, is the sub-700 quid SAAB. Or this (private sale fans will be impressed):
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510027443076
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 5 Oct 15 at 11:14
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It may have low miles, but it is 20 years old, and it's a grand. And it's got one of those slots you put an iPhone into to charge it: pictures2.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=ee17cab1a25c418082897b9bb3f8113b
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What would be the problem with that?
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Mappy's little joke, Vić. Before you insert your iPhone you'll need to twiddle the home button with a pencil to check that it's wound nice and tight.
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>What would be the problem with that?
Well in my experience it doesn't charge the iPhone very quickly and it makes some really horrible noises when you press play.
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OK, I get it now. I thought he was talking about the little shelf under the stereo (put phone there, plug in to fag lighter next to it). I prefer a car with a tape deck, if it hasn't got an aux in. Much easier to use a tape adapter than to install an aux in somewhere. A CD player in a car is useless nowadays, tape deck is much more useful.
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The problem is that I think it's a £500 car if it's lucky. The bumpers look pretty scuffed to me.
iPhone charger was somebody else's joke.
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Big car, probably driven by an old boy/girl who scraped it a few times and is now selling due to age/health problems (1 owner car). Not a big deal, a few bumper scrapes. Both my current cars have them, actually the Mazda has more than the SAAB. Mrs A never drives the SAAB. No further comment, m'lud.
I think I'd pay 750 for that car if I were minded.
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£500 or £750, not much in it. Otherwise agree with you. Probably good for 100,000 miles more.
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>> £500 or £750, not much in it.
Yeah, only a 50% increase!
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In the same vein as the 960, there's this:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508306478750
A corker, but again a private seller with an optimistic starting point on value I'd say, and an interesting notion about what makes a car a saloon. ;-)
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Private? Really? 2 keys, one without a ring, and the other with a traders yellow tag on it.... hmmm. Having said that it looks very smart and well kept, and has had some expensive jobs done recently. Worth a punt at a grand perhaps - if it drives OK (get it hot to check the 'box), and the last keeper has had it for a while (if it's changed hands recently more than once I'd avoid it in case the 'box is giving trouble!).
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One of the two keys for my Scoob still has a traders yellow tag on it, and I've had the jamjar 2.5 years.
:}
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The duplicate set for one of the Landcruisers still has the supplying dealer's fob on it, and that's got to be 8 years or so.
Having said that, why would a trader pretend to be private? Surely the implications would be about his tax dodging and lack of insurance more than it would be about the quality of the car?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 6 Oct 15 at 12:40
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It's well worth pretending to be a private seller as the buyer protection obligations are virtually nil as compared with those for a dealer.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 6 Oct 15 at 13:53
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Forget for a moment that A6 is 20yrs old...
It still has a fresh quality look and I really like light leather interiors. Does seem to have impressive paperwork. The key not on a fob is larger than the other and probably the regular use plip one. The smaller on a trader tag might be a service/valet key he's never used.
That is so much nicer than some of the tatty old barges linked on here in the past week, they are quite a modern feeling drive too.
But it is 20yrs old!
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Oh just realised... it's 20yrs old... forgot they did a major upgrade to body and mechanics in 1997 so this wil be the oldest model... not quite so good.
I looked into them seriously before buying the old 5-series... in truth if the A6 linked was in that colour/trim combo and condition... but a 2002/3... I'd swap it for my 5-series like a shot.
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>> The smaller on a trader tag might
>> be a service/valet key he's never used.
Or the one he leaves at the garage when it's serviced?
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It's a twenty year old car. For £1,500. At £600, OK.
I find it odd that a 7-year-old car with 150k or more is perceived as less desirable than this.
Nice motor, I had the 2.3 (fractionally older, it was the pre-face-lift 100-badged version) and it was a delight. Thirsty, mind. But it's twenty years old! These are more like the right price:
£900 2002 2.5 Tdi 150k auto www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509217104951
£900 2000 2.4 Quattro 200k auto www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509287315256
£999 2002 2.5 150k auto www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510047499507 with recent cambelt.
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MM, you say this:
>> I find it odd that a 7-year-old car with 150k or more is perceived as
>> less desirable than this.
And then post 3 cars, 2 of which are 13 yrs old and one of which is 15.
You may be right though, if I can find a quality car with about 150k on it for about £1500-£2000 quid at 7 yrs old (2008 or later), then it may well be worth consideration.
This is close, but still some way off your 7-yr old parameter:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509257229904
Oh, and P.S., I keep saying I don't want a diesel, and 200k miles is really, really, really too much.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 6 Oct 15 at 15:58
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>>And then post 3 cars, 2 of which are 13 yrs old and one of which is 15.
But they're half the price...
>> Diesel
Sorry, I thought it was only manuals you didn't want as the diesel Accord was a manual.
"200k miles is really, really, really too much." But twenty years isn't...
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>>£999 2002 2.5 150k auto www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510047499507 with recent cambelt.
Old Vic doesn't do cam belts.
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Try this if you don't want high mileage:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411249210789
link amended to remove OPs postcode
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 7 Oct 15 at 10:19
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Your postcode shows up on that site Piggy.
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>> Your postcode shows up on that site Piggy.
>>
Thanks.. I did that once before... so every time I use Autotrader, out of habit, I put in the first 5 digits correctly and the last two are random.
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>> Thanks.. I did that once before... so every time I use Autotrader, out of habit,
>> I put in the first 5 digits correctly and the last two are random.
Alternately just post part of the autotrader link, instead of the full one.
i.e. leave all the rubbish out after the long number.
e.g.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201411249210789
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>> Your postcode shows up on that site Piggy.
>>
I use the postcode of the local police station.
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>>I use the postcode of the local police station.
I use the postcode of the local Thai massage parlour.
:o)
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>>Try this if you don't want high mileage:
I have a thing about tatty number plates; always seems to me that the car has not been loved or thought about.
In this case tatty wheels as well.
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>> I have a thing about tatty number plates; always seems to me that the car
>> has not been loved or thought about.
>>
>> In this case tatty wheels as well.
>>
Blimey...it's a £990 car? Probably £850 without too much haggling.
The plates don't look that bad and the wheels just need a decent clean. Fair enough the dealer hasn't gone mad with the effort.. but it's a £1000 car!
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Well you have a point, but it'd still put me off.
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It wouldn't put me off buying as those that would bother are few and far between. But I have a thing about it too and hate to see plates where water/dirt has stained between the layers and the little plastic caps have gone leaving exposed red rust screw heads.
In such cases I fit new plates/fixings whatever the car's age/value.
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"long MoT" 6 weeks, perhaps he does not think it will last that long!
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It smells of Dog to me.
NO,not Perro.
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Early X types prone to bad corrosion in the sills. That plastic trim can hide some nasty rot but the MoT man will find it.
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>> Old Vic doesn't do cam belts.
I would much rather have a car where I know the belt has been changed than a chain where as the car ages servicing may not have been as thorough - skipped oil change etc.
The motoring archives are full of manufacturers who have cocked up chain drives.
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>> >> Old Vic doesn't do cam belts.
>>
>> I would much rather have a car where I know the belt has been changed
>> than a chain where as the car ages servicing may not have been as thorough
>> - skipped oil change etc.
He suggested the Audi, which certainly does. At the sub-£1000 level - which is where we now seem to be - it really doesn't matter (assuming that it has been done) as there are other things more likely to write the car off...
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Then we will get 1000 posts on every nut and bolt of the new one, consumer law, trading standards, and will probably conclude that a better deal could have been achieved or a better one is available somewhere. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 7 Oct 15 at 08:14
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>> PLEASE buy a **oody car.
>>
I **oody TRIED if you recall correctly!
;-)
Ref cambelts, well the Volvo I wanted was of course cambelted, but I was happy enough to buy as the dealer fitted a new one, and that model has a 10 year change interval. What I don't want is one of these VAG jobs with a 4 year interval. So maybe that old Audi wasn't the best idea.
To be frank I'm stumped at the moment, but with the SAAB getting such infrequent use I'm minded to do the keep-it-going-till-it-stops-properly thing. Although I will keep an eye out on Autotrader for local gems which might pop up.
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>>To be frank I'm stumped at the moment
Hi Frank. My Forester has a cambelt, the Lancer had one too. Once upon a time I said I'd never touch a car with a cambelt but, well ... I'm still alive :)
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Y'know, the obvious answer is another Mazda 6 2.0 petrol. But, Howard and Hilda. Maybe I should get over that.
Both the Mrs and I love the Maz. I can't think of a flaw they have in terms of my requirements/wants at the moment.
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>>one of these VAG jobs with a 4 year interval
A £1000 car and you're worried it might need a cambelt 4 years from now?
I admire your confidence.
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If it only gets driven a few miles every weekend, then mileage is minimal and having to fork out for a cambelt anytime for age reasons would depress me somewhat.
Anyway, this isn't a cambelt-or-not situation, like I say I've considered cambelts, I suppose if a 4-yr change one came up which had just had a new cambelt, then OK. But I'm not buying a £1500 car and then end up having to spend £500 quid on a blasted cambelt straight away.
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Didn't you just try and buy a £2000 car which included £500 for a blasted cambelt straight away?
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>> Didn't you just try and buy a £2000 car which included £500 for a blasted
>> cambelt straight away?
Don't try to bring logic into this... ;)
This is cool and has a recent-ish cambelt:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507105075191
Certainly at his 2000 miles per annum it will be a while before it needs changing...
One of the most handsome cars ever (with v recent 'belt):
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509086741212
And at £625, how can you say 'no'? (recent belt change)
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507285579725
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 7 Oct 15 at 12:11
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>> Don't try to bring logic into this... ;)
Well exactly. I've freely admitted I have a dose of the illogicals over all this (and much besides no doubt), but I don't much care. It's a bit like people who enjoy the Monarchy.
;-)
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>> It's a bit like people who enjoy the Monarchy.
oh 10/10 for contrived thread drift. Well played that man.
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>> Don't try to bring logic into this... ;)
>> This is cool and has a recent-ish cambelt:
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507105075191
>>
Is that mould on the steering wheel of that Audi? Must be leaking badly somewhere if it is mould.
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No, it was a £2500 car which the dealer would have sold for £2500, cambelt or not. I managed to spot the need and request it was done.
He is advertising it again now for £2500, by your logic he should be selling it for £3000 now, shouldn't he? Sellers aren't interested in cambelts, but if a buyer spots that it needs to be done it can sometimes be built in to the price.
Either way, I don't want to pay for cambelts if I can buy a car which doesn't need them. I don't know why so many people are so determined to prove me wrong about something which is simply a matter of personal taste.
EDIT: Humph would understand. :-(
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 7 Oct 15 at 12:14
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>> by your logic he should be selling it for £3000 now, shouldn't he?
Yes, he should. So I can only assume that either he didn't do the cambelt, or he had already factored the need into the price.
>>I don't know why so many people are so determined to prove me wrong about something
I have no interest in proving you wrong, you are quite capable of doing that yourself. I do enjoy talking about it though. Don't you?
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I'm slightly losing the will to live with it to be honest.
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Well do nothing then. You like the Saab, it does hardly any miles and it doesn't sound like its going to die imminently.
You've got time.
If the Saab does break, put a second hand box in it. You get enough of a warranty to be reasonably sure of its function.
Less stress.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 7 Oct 15 at 13:54
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That may well be the best approach, but I reserve the right to go mad and spend £1500 on something shiny which catches my eye, should the opportunity appear.
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The October issue of Car Mechanics magazine has a feature on cam chains. Interesting reading if you think they are indestructible.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 7 Oct 15 at 22:06
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>>The October issue of Car Mechanics magazine has a feature on cam chains. Interesting reading if you think they are indestructible.
When was the last time you heard of one breaking though, or a cambelt come to that? I used to hear the death rattle on my 1.8 Almera every morning - had the car for 4 .5 years but it never made a break for freedom.
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>> When was the last time you heard of one breaking though, or a cambelt come
>> to that?
I've had two cambelts go on me, last one about 15 years ago.
The difference I see is that with chains, if they're going to go it's probably at a high mileage, or an old age, when the car is nearing worthless. Belts? Needing to be changed every 4yrs or 40k miles as with VAG, well that could mean a very expensive repair/new engine on a car you wouldn't otherwise consider worthless. There are differing risks, I see the belt risk as the higher one, and I have experience to back that up.
Others may think differently. Other people have different appetites for risk. So be it.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 8 Oct 15 at 09:32
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>>I've had two cambelts go on me, last one about 15 years ago.
Fifteen years is a long time ago, I was only 48 then :)
I suppose with the ages/mileages of the cars you've been looking at, the cambelt is a major concern, but then a timing chain is too. I'd be happy to own a 10 year old car with a cambelt - as long as it was replaced correctly, complete with the tensioner etc. and even the water pump on some cars. I'm very funny about cambelts as I've seen many engines ruined when the go snap! but as long as they are replaced at the specified mileage/time, by a competent mechanic, they are nothing to chicken curry about these days IMO.
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>> When was the last time you heard of one breaking though
The Vauxhall 2.2 petrol engine (Z22SE & Z22YH) has had its moments due to faulty tensioners and blocked lubrication nozzles. Even fitting the revised tensioner from the 2.0 turbo engine didn't fully resolve the tensioner issues.
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Are but Dave ... they are Vauxhalls mate ;-)
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I think your current Mazda 6 is an estate - in which case look out for a hatchback (or is it a saloon?) in a different colour. That wouldn't be too Howard-and-Hilda. While at the same time keeping your eyes open for an S60.
If the Saab can survive for a little longer, you have time on your side.
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I am beginning to see a use for Armel's 30.06! O:-)
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>> I think your current Mazda 6 is an estate - in which case look out
>> for a hatchback (or is it a saloon?) in a different colour. That wouldn't be
>> too Howard-and-Hilda. While at the same time keeping your eyes open for an S60.
>>
>> If the Saab can survive for a little longer, you have time on your side.
>>
I have had the self same thoughts Avant, the hatch is the more common variant of the Mazda 6 - autos are quite rare though, in any body type. Particularly in estate form - when I bought mine some years ago there were only 3 auto estates on sale in the whole country, I got mine from Weybridge which isn't too far away.
Maybe a manual 6 would be an option.
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Not a car I'd want itt, but an amusingly written advert. I think Adam is quite a common name in Poland.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201509257246178
Guaranteed pass. Jolly good, no further questions required...........
Cheap car though if you're good with a spanner.
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Al has managed to facilitate a 660 post thread by asking for suggestions on the subject of cars, following none of them, finding fault with all of them and never choosing an alternative.
In fact with no obvious progress, no change in thinking, no thread drift (at least by the standards around here), the thread now contains 660 posts of mostly interesting stuff.
He has managed to refer to kebabs and the Royal Family, whilst never materially deviating from his course.
I feel a round of applause is called for. As well as a slap round the face with a wet haddock if he hasn't sorted it out before we get to 1,240 posts.
If it hadn't been for the endless repetitions Nicholas Parsons would have been very proud.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 8 Oct 15 at 17:56
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What I find odd is this. Why is it that other threads get irritatingly chopped at about 100 posts and another volume made yet this one runs and runs. It is really irritating to go back to a thread and see you can't reply to a post any more. Not everyone logs on each day. Surely no-one uses dial-up any more so loading a long thread can't be the explanation these days?
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>>Surely no-one uses dial-up any more so loading a long thread can't be the explanation these days?
Mostly inertia of course.
Although long threads are an a*** if you're using a phone given this sites lack of navigation tools. Splitting it into pages would make sense, but that functionality was not included in the software, so splitting down was, and probably is, a reasonable compromise.
Thing is, its a bit of work to split a thread at a logical place without losing anything. Really you'd want to let it run to 120 and then chop it around 100. But who has got the time?
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>> It is really irritating to go back to a thread and see you can't reply to a post any more.
Yes, you'd have thought computer operating manufacturers would have had some kind of copy/paste option so that users could copy the text from the locked thread and paste it into the next one if they wanted to reply to something, and also make reference that the reply was to something from the previous volume.
;)
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>> Yes, you'd have thought computer operating manufacturers would have had some kind of etc.
One can do that of course but software development should be making our lives easier.
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Not everyone logs on each day. Surely no-one uses dial-up any
>> more so loading a long thread can't be the explanation these days?
>>
Speaking personally it's easier to have it split up into volumes, I'm not akways on wifi and the signal isn't great so trying to load up hundreds of posts is difficult. The forum is clunky and the layout old fashioned enough, if every thread was left to run into the hundreds like this one it would be more awkward to use.
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Will you all be quiet or at least hold off on the solution until I get my man maths approved by the treasurer for an octa core phone.
This thread is perfect for displaying the delay between hitting the new link and waiting for the phone to load and parse the result.
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But the octa core phone will only be using four cores at a time. It will be a big.LITTLE implementation and the default scheduling swaps out the four LITTLE cores for the big ones when more compute power is needed. There's a MediaTek ten core ARM based CPU now even.
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I didn't say there was any logic behind the want. I just want a new phone and have a tool in this thread.
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Is this the longest ever single thread on C4P?
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>> Is this the longest ever single thread on C4P?
Probably.
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www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507044905291
12 months MOT, £500. 16 miles away from you. And from a trader, so if it goes bang within three months you have a chance of getting your money back. All you need to know...
Or this. Cool car, cooler colour:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201506114245755
An 850 with barely more than delivery miles for £700, from a dealer.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510077594667
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510017423240
There's some fun to be had at the bottom of the market still.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Fri 9 Oct 15 at 17:28
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>> And from a trader, so if
>> it goes bang within three months you have a chance of getting your money back.
I wouldn't bank on it.
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Hmmm...cool Pringle sweater, cool Alan Partridge blazer, cool loafers, cool mock-Georgian portico, cool block paving, cool medallion, cool dyed hair...
Keep the Saab!
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>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510017423240
>>
Who was the mature owner of the Omega, Dr. Who? It's got fewer miles this week than it had last week when serviced.
Looking at the stats on that car 12 years old, 6 cylinder auto has similar performance figures to a 2015 standard 2.0 diesel and half the MPG.
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Back when I ordered a Golf Mk IV GTI 1.8T, I'm sure the Vectra 2.5 V6 had around 170PS. My last car had that as a diesel. My current A3 1.4T has as much PS/BHP as the Golf had but more torque.
The Omega was a good car in it's day.
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I wouldn't mind taking this for a run to Lands End and back over the weekend: www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C667341
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Lotus often take a s***e car and make it go faster. Then its a fast, s***e car.
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>> Lotus Carlton for me.
They go through gearboxes too. The local garage owner had one and IIRC had 5 gearbox replacements or rebuilds in the Couple of years he had it.
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Work has thrown me a curveball. I've been expecting that I'll have to move office locations sometime, and that the relocation would likely put me in to a bracket of eligibility for a "business needs" company car. Well, looks like that is going to happen sooner rather than later, i.e. in the next few weeks.
So my decision now looks like one between running my old sheds and claiming mileage, or choosing between one of the following two uninspiring options and paying BIK:
Renault Megane D Hatch 1.5 DCi Dynamique Nav
Vauxhall Astra Diesel Hatchback 1.6 Cdti 16v Ecoflex Tech Line 5dr
For the SAAB I pay about 30 quid a month insurance and about the same for VED. Annual MoT, 55 sheets let's say. Servicing? Do most of it at home, so £100 quid a year on parts and fluids (I do it twice a year). Let's say £500 a year other repairs/maintenance. So £1320, roughly, running costs excluding fuel. Fuel on the company car would be paid for for most of my commuting (minus mileage from home to original workplace and back of 10 miles per day) and also other business related journeys. BIK on the Megane (or Astra, for the benefit of WDB) is £102 (£106 Astra) per month.
So financially it's much of a muchness, right? Am I missing something?
Crappy thing is I'd have to have a manual hatch. Want an auto estate. But I suppose keeping the Mazda fulfils those needs when necessary.
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What about the income from mileage expenses for using your own car for business - most employers will pay the HMRC rate - 45p per mile for the first 10,000 miles p.a. and 25p for excess miles.
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Just a couple of thoughts
Would the insurance change to cover the different use of the new role if you kept the Saab?
Would a breakdown on the Saab mean you had to hire yourself a replacement while it's being fixed?
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>> Just a couple of thoughts
>> Would the insurance change to cover the different use of the new role if you
>> kept the Saab?
>> Would a breakdown on the Saab mean you had to hire yourself a replacement while
>> it's being fixed?
>>
1- no, I've already got insurance to cover business use.
2- no, I'd just jump in the Mazda (wife uses chuffer chuffer choo choos to get to work, so I always have 2 cars available). Besides, I'm intending to use the Mazda daily at the moment, wherever I go to work, but any company car would see the SAAB sold as it's the crummiest of my two cars, so I'm comparing ownership costs of that car against the company car.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 10:57
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Yes, of course, that's what I was forgetting. Thanks Paul Robinson.
I estimate I'll do pretty much exactly 10k miles per annum on business mileage. £4.5k. Fuel for that at 30mpg is about 1500 litres, let's say 1.10 a litre that's £1650. So I'd be up 3k, is that right? So subtract my £1320 annual running on the SAAB, that's £1680 up.
The company car route would see me £1224 down. Add the £1680 and that's £2904 per annum to have a brand new Renault Megane (or Astra, for the benefit of WDB) instead of a 12 year old SAAB 9-5. Or £244 a month. I suppose that's the real decision.
Am I doing this right?
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 10:56
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To & from your normal place of work is not business use, it is commuting. As such you won't get the normal travel expenses & tax relief, although for a limited period of time it may be included in your relocation package.
You need to check how long they will be paying this for and how the tax man will treat it.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 10:58
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>>BIK on the Megane (or Astra, for the benefit of WDB) is £102 (£106 Astra) per month
Do you mean the tax on the BIK is £100 pm, or the BIK is £100 per month - in which case the tax is £40 (or whatever the appropriate marginal rate is).
Like No FM2R says, if they really do pay this mileage to a new permanent workplace, HMRC will treat it as taxable income.
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>> >>BIK on the Megane (or Astra, for the benefit of WDB) is £102 (£106 Astra)
>> per month
>>
>> Do you mean the tax on the BIK is £100 pm, or the BIK is
>> £100 per month - in which case the tax is £40 (or whatever the appropriate
>> marginal rate is).
>>
>> Like No FM2R says, if they really do pay this mileage to a new permanent
>> workplace, HMRC will treat it as taxable income.
>>
Ah, right. I'm new to all this. Can you tell?
Using Parkers website, it says the BIK on the Megane is £102 per month for a 40% tax payer. I assumed that I would therefore pay £102 per month for the privilege of having the car. Are you saying that's wrong and I'd pay, perhaps, £40 per month?
On the second point, yes, I can see how that would happen. Hadn't thought of that. I know very little of tax and its wily ways, having only ever been an employee on PAYE really with no complications.
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Speaking to colleagues, others who have been moved to different locations are still managed in terms of their original base location, and so their commute to their new workplace is treated as business journeys. My base location will remain the Reading office, i.e. where I was originally recruited to work, but I will now be working further away through no request/intention of my own.
But yes, I'll have to check it out officially I suppose.
Christ, why is nothing ever straightforward these days?
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On the face of it, unless the financials are hugely more punitive, the peace-of-mind of a new reliable company car vs running an ageing Saab would win me over every time. No brainer to me!
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>> On the face of it, unless the financials are hugely more punitive, the peace-of-mind of
>> a new reliable company car vs running an ageing Saab would win me over every
>> time. No brainer to me!
And financially of course the cost of replacing the Saab periodically (depreciation) comes into it, which has also been missed out of the calculations above.
It seems unlikely that turning down a free car and fuel for business mileage is going to beat taking it, in the absence of a substitute car allowance.
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>> Speaking to colleagues, others who have been moved to different locations are still managed in
>> terms of their original base location, and so their commute to their new workplace is
>> treated as business journeys.
That sounds like an accommodation to employees which is not strictly right. If you normally go directly to the the new location then that will be your normal place of work and so not a legitimate expense.
It may be something that is happening, perhaps it can be construed as a temporary period of remote working, but it sounds like a 'cheat' so be cautious.
Incidentally - is it just a matter of having the company car or turning it down, or is there a "car allowance" option?
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 11:19
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There is no allowance option, Manatee. This is "Business Needs" only, not a "Benefit" car. The company has two different systems. I am not entitled to a "Benefit" car, which is more of a perk and the range of choice of vehicle is bigger. People entitled to a "Benefit" car can take an allowance in lieu.
I have several colleagues who have had their location moved in the past and have consequently been running these "Business Needs" cars as their new workplace is further from their original, triggering an 8k miles minimum business mileage per annum. The cars are always handed back if mileage drops below an expected 8k.
For those who see this as some kind of "cheat", this is an enormous company, has been running this scheme for a very long time, and I'm sure it knows what it's doing. I imagine HMRC is will apprised of the situation and has no problem with it. We're a big IT consultancy where "bodies" get shifted around at will.
What I'm trying to get to the bottom of is how much it will cost me if I apply for one of these vehicles. I will of course speak to HR and make my decision based on the facts as presented from the horse's mouth, but thought it an interesting development for discussion here. And I'm grateful for the comments and input so far, it's interesting and informative.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 11:35
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>>This is "Business Needs" only, not a "Benefit" car.
You are confused. Your employer may well have the concept of qualified user, or business need user etc. etc., but that is not the same as HMRC.
If you commute in the car and have use of it outside work hours, then it is a benefit not a tool.
HR are *not* the horse's mouth insofar as tax is concerned. They may be able to offer help and suggestions, but the horse's mouth is HMRC.
Then I think you're going about it the wrong way. Work out which you would like to do, and decide if you can live with the costs of that. The fact that they way you do NOT want to do it may or may not be 10% cheaper, or 10% more expensive for that matter, is probably not material.
Working it out to the last penny is surely only relevant if you truly do not care which you do.
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>> You are confused.
You're right there.
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>> Working it out to the last penny is surely only relevant if you truly do
>> not care which you do.
Well I'm not tying to really, I'm just trying to work out if I'll be significantly worse/better off wither way, which will colour my decision.
I'd like a nice new shiny which I don't have to worry about, but not at any cost. Otherwise I'd go out and buy myself hat nice new shiny.
£100 a month out of pocket? OK, I'll go for it. £200? Hmmm, dunno. £300? No thanks. Roughly. At this stage, I just don't know which it would be (or even if it's less, or more, or whatever) and I am evidently not aware of every angle which I have to factor in.
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It will be less than £100.
Own car =
- Tax
- MOT
- Insurance
- Repairs & Maintenance (tyres, servicing, parts, breakdowns, fluids etc. etc.)
- Depreciation & loss of interest
- Replacement
Company car =
- increase in tax
- Any contribution from you?
and then emotionally - no DIY or stress with company vehicle.
Also you will sell one of your cars, in which case if you sell the Saab you'll be 75p better off and the rest of us will be able to sleep better at nights.
And of course the company vehicle will tend to reduce the mileage on your second car, since you will both always use it in preference to your own.
Don't forget, some element of the mileage rate is supposed to cover running costs.
A whole 'nother issue is your relocation package. There's always doubt and flexibility in those. Take no s*** and protect yourself. Not just now but in the case of future company changes.
And don't rely on your company not screwing it up just because they're big and should know better.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 12:58
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>> Also you will sell one of your cars, in which case if you sell the
>> Saab you'll be 75p better off
I think this is the deciding fact. That'll buy me a packet of Branston Pickle flavour Mini Cheddars and 10p back from the office vending machine.
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>> That sounds like an accommodation to employees which is not strictly right. If you normally
>> go directly to the the new location then that will be your normal place of
>> work and so not a legitimate expense.
>>
>> It may be something that is happening, perhaps it can be construed as a temporary
>> period of remote working, but it sounds like a 'cheat' so be cautious.
We get a small allowance now for communting but I don't ever recall paying tax on it but I'd have to check.
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Personally i preferred my own car rather than a lease car. When I worked I would be a "trailing edge" technology car (special editions brought out in the last 12 months of model life) i.e a NEW car but the "old model" - usually these cars had the gremlins fixed in the previous 5 years and were then on "clearance pricing".
An example would be a 2014 Honda Jazz @ £9.5K to £12K rather than £15K+ for the new model. I know the Jazz might not be anyone's choice but is an example.
I would then run the car under the £300-£350 / month gross (£240+ or £180+ net) car allowance and then they paid say 25p per mile. I usually did around 12K claimable. You then claim a tax rebate £10K miles @ (45p-25p)x 40% - £800 rebate as soon as you fill in the forms.
The last car (£10,250) was paid nearly 2 x over in 5 years and at the end I had an T/I worth £2500 (93K) against my next car!
Rules not a big car, with thirsty engine with big servicing & costly tyres and go easy on the loud pedal.
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>> I would then run the car under the £300-£350 / month gross (£240+ or £180+
>> net) car allowance and then they paid say 25p per mile. I usually did around
>> 12K claimable. You then claim a tax rebate £10K miles @ (45p-25p)x 40% - £800
>> rebate as soon as you fill in the forms.
FB, I'm sure you know what you're saying, but I'm a bit illiterate in this language and have absolutely no understanding of what that paragraph means.
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Govt rates are 45p per mile (10K) then 25p - non taxable for business use.
If an employer pays less than 45p (and then less than 25p if you do over 10K miles) you can claim the tax back on the difference.
Say your employer pays 22p per mile
10K miles X(45-22p) = £2300 you then multiply that figure by the highest tax rate you pay and @ 40% you get a rebate of £920 - simples!
lets say you do 12K claimable miles
You would also get an addition amount 2,000 (25p -22p) x 40% = £24.00
making a total rebate of £944 each year.
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My employer pays 45p. So tax rebates don't come in to it. Right?
(And thanks for the explanation, I think I get it. A bit.)
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 12:12
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Oh, hang on, no. My Employer seems to pay 38.6p per mail. What's that all about? Is that an additional complication/calculation?
Groan.
I'm thinking a Renault Megane (or Vauxhall Astra, for the benefit of WDB) isn't worth the hassle of trying to make sense of this complete and utter farce of a system.
I'd rather sit through a whole week of a UKIP conference sat on a spike whilst being force-fed poisonous live jellyfish by a naked Cyril Smith singing the Greatest Hits of Prefab Sprout than have to work out this crap.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 12:18
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>>My Employer seems to pay 38.6p per mail
For the first 10,000 miles you are entitled to 45p (it changes)
If you are only paid 35p, then you reclaim the other 10p from the nice tax man..
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>> If you are only paid 35p, then you reclaim the other 10p from the nice
>> tax man..
>>
I remember trying to do that once, such a faff. They wanted reams of paperwork and evidence from god knows when about all sorts of journeys. I don't know if it was some sort of audit or something but everytime I tried them wanted more information. In the end I gave up. I think it was for about £60.
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>> I remember trying to do that once, such a faff. They wanted reams of paperwork
>> and evidence from god knows when about all sorts of journeys. I don't know if
>> it was some sort of audit or something but everytime I tried them wanted more
>> information. In the end I gave up. I think it was for about £60.
>>
This is what I fear the most. Hello, SAAB. Looks like you're staying.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 12:58
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>> This is what I fear the most. Hello, SAAB. Looks like you're staying.
>>
It certainly would be easier. Although I'm similar to you I find all these about tax rebates, claims, allowences, tax rates etc pretty confusing too. I suppose you'd be not really worse off either if you kept the saab, probably a nicer place to be inside than your two car choices.
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If the employer pays the full 45p there is no rebate.
If I was doing a LONG Journey over say 2 days I would hire a local rental company (2 yr old/3 yr old car with mega miles and really cheap), paid the rental myself and charged the miles! Kept the mileage down on my own car.
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Interesting I always thought you got the whole amount from HMRC, not the amount x your tax rate.
Our lot only give 23p a mile, so always try and avoid using my own car and get a hire car or a pool car.
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I think FB's 'run it under' means 'fund it with'.
£102 a month would be a 40% taxpayer's tax liability on a car with a list price of £17,000 and a BIK rate of 18%.
(17,000 x 0.18 x 0.4 / 12)
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>> £102 a month would be a 40% taxpayer's tax liability on a car with a
>> list price of £17,000 and a BIK rate of 18%.
>> (17,000 x 0.18 x 0.4 / 12)
>>
Great. What would that cost me a month then? Write it in crayon if you have to. Just a simple number with a pound sign, I can understand that.
Cheers.
;-)
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If the employer simply hands you the car - no allowance to trigger extra contributions or refunds - then the monthly tax cost to you will be...
...£102.
Supplementary question: if you choose the Astra for my benefit, will I have to pay tax on that benefit too?
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>> If the employer simply hands you the car - no allowance to trigger extra contributions
>> or refunds - then the monthly tax cost to you will be...
>>
>>
>> ...£102.
OK, so what was FB on about further up, something to do with only paying 40% of the BIK figure? I'm totally lost.
>> Supplementary question: if you choose the Astra for my benefit, will I have to pay
>> tax on that benefit too?
>>
Perhaps. But I'll let you have a go to show off to your mates in it any time you like.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 13:03
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>> OK, so what was FB on about further up, something to do with only paying
>> 40% of the BIK figure? I'm totally lost.
Let us say that you pay tax @40%.
If the company increases your salary by £100 per month, you will pay £40 in extra tax leaving £60 in your pocket.
But the company is not giving you extra money, its giving you a car.
"Aha", says HMRC, "you're not getting away with that one, that is a benefit but in kind (BIK) not in cash". "And we (HMRC) value that benefit as equivalent to £100 per month".
So you will pay £40 in extra tax and get the car.
So to work out the additional tax you pay for having a car, you take the BIK value of that car as determined by HMRC and their formula, apply your tax rate to it, and that's how much tax you will pay for having it.
Clearer?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 13:11
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WDB says I'll pay £102. You say I'll pay about £40.
What the hell's going on? You can't both be right.
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FFS.
What is the BIK value of the car you are looking at?
I used £100 as an example, but I have no idea what the actual amount will be.
Take that value, the real one, and apply your tax rate to it.
WdB says that sum results in £102. I would expect him to be correct.
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>> WdB says that sum results in £102. I would expect him to be correct.
>>
The BIK value of the car I'm looking at is £102 (according to Parker, as I said in the first place).
Will says that means I'll pay £102.
You say I'll pay 40% of £102.
Which is it?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 13:26
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I think your example using the £100 figure threw me, NF. The HMRC calculator says the same as the Parker's one, £102 per month.
www.parkers.co.uk/company-cars/tax-calculator/renault/megane/hatchback-2008/69082/?yearplate=109&taxyear=6&taxrate=17
So, WDB was right, I pay £102 per month. Which is fine by me. Mapmaker's earlier post really confused me, I read it as implying that I'd only pay 40% of this £102, but evidently the £102 is the 40% of some other figure which HMRC value the benefit at. Is that right?
And having the company car will avoid the "gotcha" in 2 years time of not being able to claim business mileage to the new office any more (if I'm understanding other posts on here well enough).
Sorry for any confusion, I get quite easily confused with tax matters because I'm simply not attuned to the language and concepts. I find it all quite intimidating and as a result I am inclined to get confused and flap.
Looks like I'll order a Renault. Unless the VX Astra has some significant spec advantage.
I liked my Laguna, if anyone remembers that. ;-)
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 13:58
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I'm out right now, but when I'm back I'll calculate the whole thing for you.
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Don't forget the tax paid will go up next April when the BIK bands change.
I wonder if we work for the same employer.... If we did I might know more on how the car system works.
One other thought, if you get a car based on business mileage which includes the commute to the office miles (sounds a bit iffy to me based on HMRC rules), then in 2 years you cannot claim the commute mileage. Will this drop you below the mileage that justifies having a business need car?
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You know where I live, you disapprove of my choice of car, you have a decent education yet can't process simple arithmetic...
...Are you Mrs Beest stalking me online?
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£102 pounds a month....
I always said that if I could get a financed, fuelled, serviced, taxed, insured, repaired new car for £1200 a year regardless of mileage, I'd bite their hand off....
I think you can only claim the mileage to a 'temporary' place of work tax free for 2 years, after that HMRC consider you to be permanently employed there, and tax you on it. Of course, if your place of work changes back to Reading for a couple of weeks, and then back to the new location afterwards.....!
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I may be wrong _ (I frequently am) but I thought that the 45ppm applied to use of your own car, and was to include all running expenses.
Using a firms car - taxed, serviced, financed - would attract a lower mileage figure.
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Good point, Neil. I do get an allowance to run my car, so the mileage rate covers only fuel and other consumables - about 17p, I think. Colleagues who don't get the allowance can claim the full 45p.
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>> Using a firms car - taxed, serviced, financed - would attract a lower mileage figure.
Usually yes. But they can pay you whatever is their policy.
Mine paid the HMRC figure (e.g. 45p) for people using their own cars and without a car allowance, or something between 17p and 25p (dependent on fuel type and engine size) for people using company cars without private fuel benefit, or their own cars if they were receiving a car allowance.
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You need to fuel the new car.....
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>> Want an auto estate.
Plenty of space in the back of this one.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510067549413
You can even be seen dead in it.
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I know who wouldn't be seen dead in it. Probably changing his last wishes right now.
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You - or I - can be seen dead in it because it has plain glass rear windows, the better to show off the floral letters spelling 'Dwayne' or 'Nana' or whatever. So let's have no more about 'privacy glass' making an estate look like a hearse.
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Vic,
The company are offering you a car because *they* believe it is necessary for you to do your job (let's leave the tax man out of it for a moment).
So, lets say you keep the Saab and Mazda instead. One winter's morning, Mrs Vic is gone with the Mazda when the Saab refuses to start. You miss your work appointment while waiting for the tow truck/replacement hire car to arrive.
Does the company shrug its shoulders and say "these things happen", or does it cost you in income or ear ache?
If the latter, personally, I'd have the Megane and swallow whatever the cost difference is as the price of doing my job...if *it* leaves you on the driveway, that's the fleet manager's problem, not yours!
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Apologies for setting the £102 / £40 hare running.
The answer is that it will cost you £102 per month.
That is the tax you pay on the value of the benefit in kind.
As there is no car allowance alternative, I can't see why you wouldn't say 'yes' to them. You'd be completely crazy not to! It's possible to run a banger on £1200 per annum, but not guaranteed, and not something better. I mean, £1200 doesn't even fix your gearbox!
Best of all, this thread can die a death. ;) (and be taken away in the Auto estate Vectra just above).
So far as HMRC are concerned, the 24 month rule only applies if it is a temporary workplace. In your situation it isn't ever a temporary workplace, it is permanent from the beginning. www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim32080.htm
I sense, however, that provided you are filling out your expenses claims clearly and correctly, "travel from home to new permanent workplace at X place" and in accordance with company policy, that the tax liability would fall on your employer, not you.
So, say your mileage claim is £60. You get £60 cash from your employer. HMRC would likely regard that as being a net payment of £60 on which your employer had failed to operate PAYE. You would likely be regarded as having received income of £100, and your employer regarded as owing HMRC £40. (Based on a 40% taxpayer, and ignoring National Insurance.)
Make sure you get the details of the commuting costs reimbursement policy, as it applies to you, in writing.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 14:09
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>>You'd be completely crazy not to!
Unless you hate the idea of sitting inside a Renault or a Vauxhall. I can see where you'd be coming from...
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I was just perusing the "New Astra" page on the VX website. Actually quite a nice thing, as it goes.
Hmm.
Spec seems broadly similar (i.e.identical) to the Renault (Tech Line vs Dynamique Nav), except the VX seems to have this new fangled "concierge" service thingy in addition.
My instinct is for the Renault, but perhaps I'll sidle along to local dealers for a little brum brum in each.
The other option, I've just learned, is to pick up a "reallocation" vehicle from the pool, which could be something far higher up the food chain. Mid-level bosses here seem to have BMW 5-Series in general, now that would be an interesting option, a 2 year old 520d.............
I got TUPEd in to this company from one which was astonishingly tight regarding benefits, and I've kept my poverty-level benefits. Most people at my level who are original company employees already have nice "Benefit" cars, BMW 5 series, 4 series, Audi A3s, that sort of caper. Maybe I can pick up a used one of those from a leaver, rather than the base level grunt spec I'm being offered.
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...[the Astra] seems to have this new fangled "concierge" service thingy in addition.
You'll have to run errands for people as penance for paying the base-model price? I expect it's a hatchback thing; if you choose the estate you have to repair photocopiers instead.
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As with ordering wine in a restaurant, it seems my company specifies the second lowest spec level to these business needs cars. Tech Line for VX and Dynamique Nav for Renault both seem to be one up from povvo spec.
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>> ...[the Astra] seems to have this new fangled "concierge" service thingy in addition.
>>
>> You'll have to run errands for people as penance for paying the base-model price? I
>> expect it's a hatchback thing; if you choose the estate you have to repair photocopiers
>> instead.
Just wondering why you perceive that all photocopier repairers drive Astras? You threw the same statement into the conversation when I mentioned I was buying an Astra.
The last photocopier bod who turned up at our place had a Citroen Picasso. Do I perceive from that, it was actually Ronnie Pickering (who?), and not someone come to repair our Toshiba copier?
My line manager has an Astra Estate, (his 3rd or 4th in fact), and the closest he came to repairing the copier at work was when he cleared a paper jam.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 21:33
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>> >> You'll have to run errands for people as penance for paying the base-model price?
>> I
>> >> expect it's a hatchback thing; if you choose the estate you have to repair
>> photocopiers
>> >> instead.
Photcopier repair men no longer exist. Everywhere I know uses an MFD.
Multi function device, printer, scanner and copier/collator.
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>> Just wondering why you perceive that all photocopier repairers drive Astras?
I always imagined that they would drive a vectra or insignia estate. Photocopiers are pretty big things.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 22:50
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>>Just wondering why you perceive that all photocopier repairers drive Astras?
Jeez, just how big is that big red button?
You really need to get over it and stop over reacting to this stuff.
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>> You really need to get over it and stop over reacting to this stuff.
It was a genuine question with no ulterior motive intended, so wind your neck in trunky.
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>> It was a genuine question with no ulterior motive intended, so wind your neck in
>> trunky.
>>
Trunky, never heard that one before.
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Do calm down, Violet Elizabeth.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 10:22
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Wasn't Violet Elizabeth's mother called Mary?
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>> Do calm down, Violet Elizabeth.
Leave her alone Hubert. Or I may have to call in the Outlaws to deal with you.
Your Dad's famous sauce has black beetles in it.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 13:50
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>> Trunky, never heard that one before.
It was my nickname at boarding school when I was 10, for reasons I'd rather not go into. Already a poet, I composed a silly little song about it. Some po-faced prat of a teacher objected to that and made me write 200 lines: 'I can be funny without being rude'.
In the robust 1940s, failure to produce your lines in the allotted time resulted in corporal punishment, which hurt and left weals on your bum.
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40s? I was still getting thrashed in the 80s.
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>> 40s? I was still getting thrashed in the 80s.
Was that in a British or British-style institution Alanović? London boys greatly resented it in the 70s when I did some 'teaching'. In my young day we regarded it as normal.
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British. A vanilla prep school in the home counties (although it had once been named the Imperial Service College - Kipling went there).
I resented it all right too. But that didn't stop them. Told my parents the first time, must have deserved it they said.
My worst beating was from a perverted old science teacher who decided my intonation, whilst practicing readings from the bible for the Christmas service, were below required standards. He had a nice little room under a staircase where he would take boys when he felt like it.
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>> My worst beating was from a perverted old science teacher
They all hurt like hell. When I was 10 only the Head could beat you, but when you got the necessary three conduct marks all at once you knew you were in for it next morning. 'You've been rather silly this term, Coussine,' the beak would say in a more-in-sorrow-than-anger tone, adding 'Four' (or two or three, never six in my case). He used a heavy black hairbrush with grooves on the back, or a smaller red one.
Later there came a deputy Head, just out of the Commandos (late forties this was). He had the right to beat and used a cane, often making witty remarks as he did so. He was very popular. We all liked him, although one could go off him after a caning. The other children, even one's enemies, were always sympathetic.
After I had offended both these characters several times towards the end of term, my bum was so bruised and cut when I got home that the parents wanted to complain. I had to beg them not to.
Didn't want to be a troublemaker. :o}
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>> Didn't want to be a troublemaker. :o}
Thirteen strokes in four days in the last week of term, a three and a six from the deputy head and a four from the beak's hairbrush.
It was a coed school and girls didn't get spanked as a rule. But there was one called Penelope who did get a caning (on the hands though), being seriously naughty. She was greatly admired for it and became a sort of honorary boy.
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>> when you got the necessary three conduct marks all at once you knew you were in for it next morning.
Yes, you had all night to lie awake with a sinking feeling and wondering if you'd manage not to blub in front of anyone, and rather hoping a prefect wouldn't pass by at breakfast to give you the bad news; that someone would have taken pity on you. The carphounds never did though.
Far worse than the actual beating which came as a relief, sort of, almost. Sharp, but shortish.
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Don't forget a 5-series will cost you considerably more in tax... About twice as much I'd think, if not more.
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Yes, there is that. I shall take a view should the opportunity present itself.
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I had the use of a 10 year old manual-trans diesel Insignia for a couple of days this week and, what a pleasant surprise!
I wasn't looking forward to getting out of my Subaru and into a VX, having heard from a lot of, um, knockers on this forum.
If a 10 year old Vauxhall can run as well as that, I'd have no qualms whatsoever about becoming a VXfan.
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You sure it was a Caligula? I didn't think they were launched until 2008/9ish?
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Ah, wozzit a private plate then vić ... it was on an 05 plate and, I'd have known if it was Caligua ;)
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Perhaps it was missing its badges and Perro just assumed that meant it must be a Vauxhall. For all we know it was a Mercedes that was being repaired after an accident.
};---)
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I would probably have guessed if it was a Merc, but it could well have been an Opel cleverly disguised as a Vauxhall. It only had 130k on the clock, so barely run in really I 'spose.
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More likely a Vectra on an 05 I'd've thought. Or a Signum.
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Erm, I just phoned 'im up, and ... it was a Vectra!
^_^
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Then I'm quite surprised you found it a wholesome veehikel. I've driven a Caligula and liked it very much, Vectras not so much. I always found the Vectra C/Astra H generation of VXs a bit "waggy" for want of a better word. Limp about the controls. Unsatisfying. The Insignia however was altogether more solid and proper feeling.
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Geezer with the titfer reckons:
"Far better than previous Vectra. Now with decent handling and an excellent ride. Plenty of safety kit. Roomy in the front. Big boot. Good looks too, like Dog".
:o}
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Our business need cars are selected from Renault, Skoda, Vauxhall and VW. You get an allowance and get to choose the make/model. So it doesn't sound like your employer's car scheme is that flexible.
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EDIT: Actually I checked and it's changed. You can now only get choice of 4 vehicles across these manufacturers. And on the lower car grade of the two you can't get the Skoda Octavia or VW Golf.... so we probably do work for the same employer.
If that was the case, there's a roadshow by the lease company next week near you. You could test drive both the cars.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 15 Oct 15 at 16:52
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Thanks, rtj. Yes, looks like we do work for the same folks. Konnichiwa.
I'll look in to the roadshow.
EDIT: Ah, crap. The local one was on Wednesday, next week's is in Madchester. Gah.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 09:58
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I incorrectly assumed they were all in the same week. Sorry.
If you do have questions about the cars... maybe drop me a mail via the mods to start with if they are willing to help. Or give me a clue of your name so I can look you up on the internal mail system.
I've been with the company longer than you. Although I've not had a car via the current lease company. But i might be able to offer some advice.
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Thanks rtj, I'll do that.
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>> Apologies for setting the £102 / £40 hare running.
>>
>> The answer is that it will cost you £102 per month.
>>
I think looking at this thread, the above is enough info for 'vic. ;-)
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Thing is Alanovic you don't even need to do the maths with a magnifying glass... want a shiny reliable car with all hassles funded for you as part of your family fleet then go for it... hate the idea then don't
£100 per mth +/- is nothing in the scheme of life.
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With the company car, if it won't start or is in for service/repairs... you get a hire car or the very least a courtesy vehicle.
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Yes, I think I'll go for it, F. I have to get my new boss to tick a box first, then it's off to the leasing company website.
I expect I'll go for the Megane out of the two, I always liked the way Renaults drove and rode, and they always seem to have super comfy seats. Will check them both out first to be sure (to be sure) though.
I'll put the SAAB up on the classifieds here. I expect someone will jump at the chance, there must be fair few chomping at the bit (or biting at the chomp, as a particularly dizzy ex-gf used to say). Start it at £5k and see how high we get?
;-)
One thing though, with company cars being insured centrally (I presume), does that mean I don't get to accrue no claims bonus?
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>>oes that mean I don't get to accrue no claims bonus?
In truth one does not accrue no claims bonus anyway. What one does is accumulate claim free years of driving.
Should you, at some point, stop driving your company car and buy your own, a letter confirming claim/incident free driving will achieve you a comparable discount privately.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 10:40
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>> Should you, at some point, stop driving your company car and buy your own, a
>> letter confirming claim/incident free driving will achieve you a comparable discount privately.
Indeed, despite having a very large and very expensive accident, I came out of company car driving with a 4 years no claims discount.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 13:07
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>> One thing though, with company cars being insured centrally (I presume), does that mean I
>> don't get to accrue no claims bonus?
Correct. But you can ask the lease company for a letter of credence (think thats what they call it) to prove your no claim record (assuming you have one) to get a discount should you then go back to running your own car.
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Just that few seconds faster..............
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Thanks for both responses above, NF and r.
Glad that I was a patient boy regarding the Volvo now, or I'd have to sell it on already. I would not get £2.4k for it either, so I'd be a good grand or so out of pocket on it. They were right, patience is a virtue.
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I'm not sure anybody has said it Al, but congrats on getting the car. I well remember the day I first got a company car - financial matters to one side I was a very happy bunny driving something new I hadn't paid for.
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Yeah, still got to get the boss to approve the need first, many a slip and all that. I'll allow myself a smug smile once I'm sat looking at that shiny hollow diamond on the steering wheel.
Here's a thought: what if rtj70 is my new boss.....................
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Ask him on your first morning how he likes his new Audi. Then after lunch, you can ask what he had before and what he thought of that. Your first week will pass in a blur.
};---)
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Oh hell. I just made a (poor and predictable) crack about Audi drivers on another thread.
I'll get my coat and slip that P45 into the pocket.
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>> Yeah, still got to get the boss to approve the need first, many a slip
>> and all that. I'll allow myself a smug smile once I'm sat looking at that
>> shiny hollow diamond on the steering wheel.
There is only one time to buy a renault. When someone else has the responsibility and expense of keeping it working.
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>> There is only one time to buy a renault. When someone else has the responsibility
>> and expense of keeping it working.
Yes, I was just going to post that. I hired a Megan once - one with a big and ugly boot. It was quite fun actually, once I realised you had to put your foot down to use all the 16 valves.
The Renault 21 I had - poverty spec, fortunately - still had endless electrical troubles. I wonder whether that Megan (2004 it must have been) is still on the road. Probably not; the card-to-start feature will have got it if nothing else...
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>> I wonder whether that Megan (2004 it must have been) is still on the road.
Considering how popular those Meganes were in their day, one sees very few around now. My 2004 is no longer taxed. It may have been crashed of course but my money would be on it (and many others) ending up on the scrap heap because of expensive-to-fix problems.
When I see a Megane now, I always think to myself "Is that a petrol or a diesel?" You can tell from the badge on the door. Of those that remain, most seem to be petrols. Apart from dodgy dephaser units on the 1.6, the petrols were actually quite robust although some examples liked to get through coils quite a lot.
Last edited by: The Melting Snowman on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 17:16
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>> When I see a Megane now, I always think to myself "Is that a petrol
>> or a diesel?" You can tell from the badge on the door. Of those that
>> remain, most seem to be petrols. Apart from dodgy dephaser units on the 1.6, the
>> petrols were actually quite robust although some examples liked to get through coils quite alot.
The OH had one of that age, I wouldn't be too sure about the petrols being reliable. we had no end of electrical problems, changed just about every engine related sensor (and a whole load of other electrical issues). Yep had that on ours, god knows how many coil packs it went through. Hesitation when pulling away on several occasions was the last straw.
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You and RTJ have atr least one thing in common, you both have plenty of time to read and post here during what others would regard as the working day. :-)
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These days, companies regard the working week as Monday 9am until Sunday 23.59. Including holidays. On my days off recently at the Rugby World Cup, I was online all the time, even working from a noisy Wetherspoons, and a train packed with half cut Welsh rugby fans. This was not "working from home", you understand, but days of my annual leave.
It's a different world. I don't entirely approve, but there you go. I've got bills to pay and children who need clothes..........(name that tune, virtual pint to the first correct answer).
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Billy Joel - The Downeaster Alexa
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I' sometimes working with people on the west coast of America and the Philippines... one the same day and actually the same piece of work. So I'm flexible in work times. As long as the work gets done and all that ;-)
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>> These days, companies regard the working week as Monday 9am until Sunday 23.59. Including holidays.
>> On my days off recently at the Rugby World Cup, I was online all the
>> time, even working from a noisy Wetherspoons, and a train packed with half cut Welsh
>> rugby fans. This was not "working from home", you understand, but days of my annual
>> leave.
>>
You have my sympthies, that sounds horrific. I'm lucky in that it's near impossible to bring any work home.
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I always get a bit of a hollow laugh from those adverts for smartphones and similar, showing a beautiful location with a caption like 'Your new office'. We're supposed to think, "Wow, instead of being in the office, I could do my work on the beach," when what it really means is, "I get to spend two weeks a year away from the office, and now my work is going to follow me here."
It is possible to keep the worst of it at bay but it has to be a constant effort. Nobody ever plans for holiday cover; there's no point, because there's nobody with any slack to provide it. I can usually manage not to be disturbed during our annual family holiday, but odd days off at other times are likely to get the treatment Vić describes. Add in the late evenings, travel in my own time and the rest and I have no remorse about pinching the odd half-hour for a haircut, going to the gym before driving in, or taking a minute to look in here.
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Perzackerly and exisely, WDB.
Modern life can be rubbish. But at least we've got indoor toilets. And it's kebab night.
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Got a software launch going out Monday evening, by next Friday will have worked 30 out of 33 days straight. It's been a nightmare project. Can't wait to see the back of this one.
On the plus side, kebab night. Beef, lamb or chicken hmmmm.
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But at least we've got indoor toilets. And it's kebab night.
Wouldn't want one without the other. Fish and chips for us tonight. Bon appétit.
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>> These days, companies regard the working week as Monday 9am until Sunday 23.59.
I do not think this is common practice. It certainly isn't in the companies I have worked. If they tried that with me they would get the two-fingered salute.
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>> >> These days, companies regard the working week as Monday 9am until Sunday 23.59.
>>
>> I do not think this is common practice. It certainly isn't in the companies I
>> have worked. If they tried that with me they would get the two-fingered salute.
It was in the company I worked for. I think you will find in most IT or internet type companies it is the norm.
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Well thank heavens I've never had anything to do with IT or internet. I suppose if you know the score when you join the company then it's up to the employee. I've always done 9 to 5 with a decent lunch break and in the old days we had a smoking room.
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It works like that for me. As Zero says it might be an IT thing but works both ways. Some weeks I might find a spare bit of time in the day that means I do something for me. But later in the day/evening I make up the time. It can be an advantage to me and the company at times.
Sometimes I might have three or more projects to juggle too so sometimes taking a bit of time out is a good thing.
I don't have a smartphone for work (could have one) and don't take the work phone out with me when not working. I used to use the work phone for personal calls but that's not a good idea these days.
I am often replying to emails at night when at home because the Mac I use for personal use is in the same room (mostly) as the work laptop.
All in all I am happy working like this for now. In theory I could normally be working like this from anywhere, as in any country. I just need a fast broadband connection.
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Wow we've got over 22,000 views to one thread... time to lock it :-) Over 800 posts.
One last comment on company cars for Alanovic.... if you do get one, remember you are then insured to drive all the company cars at any time. At the moment you could drive someone else's when on company business.
So come the time when a Renault Megane is too small... you could say borrow someone's S-Max if they're willing to swap.... Just don't tell them you're using it for a run to the tip!
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 18:16
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If you are still looking for something large and with minimum risk - have a look at classified ads -
Car is known, but not the current trade seller!
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He now has the chance of a company car so is no longer looking. :-)
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I'm half thinking of changing cars but hadn't thought of a big old barge like that. But I had the previous Omega (MV6, 3.0l) and it was one of my favourite cars. I only got rid of it because the company scheme which paid allowance epected cars under a certain mileage and age and the Omega was well beyond both.
However I shows it to SWMBO and got a firm No. :-(
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WdB might be interested...
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And CS is being mischievous about Vauxhalls, which is my job. Besides, I've just offloaded one 2002 saloon car; why would I take on another?
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Nice motor, for a Vx, one of the few models I'd consider from that manufacturer. But rtj is right, I'm waiting on a decision regarding a possible company car so it's all on hold at the mo.
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I've just ordered a second hand gearbox for the SAAB from a dismantler on ebay (12k +ve feedback) for 430 quid. SAAB garage estimating 200 quid to fit. The replacement box is out of a 2004 car with only 72k miles on the clock, which is a bit under half the mileage on my car. 90 day warranty. Fresh fluid in it when fitted and it should be fine for a long time yet.
I'll be opening a book on the next major failure the car will suffer now:
Aircon 2-1 fav
Injector pump 5-1
Engine 25-1
Written off in an accident 33-1
50-1 Bar
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>> Aircon 2-1 fav
>> Injector pump 5-1
>> Engine 25-1
>> Written off in an accident 33-1
>>
>> 50-1 Bar
3-1 on, dragged off to the nuthouse, car sold at auction
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Sold at auction? Sold? Sounds a bit optimistic.
Cluck cluck gibber gibber my old man's a mushroom.
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Its not a fair race this one, by the time that engine has been disconnected and shifted about to fit the new box NOTHING is going to be working. Not that the electronics on the new box and the engine will talk to one another anyway.
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Eh? It's a like for like swap. Bolt off, bolt on. Garage has SAAB Tech II device to marry box to car. Sorted.
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I'll be opening a book on the next major failure the car will suffer now:
Aircon 2-1 fav
Injector pump 5-1
Engine 25-1
Written off in an accident 33-1
50-1 Bar
I'll put £100 on the gearbox being the next major failure.
I'd like my 5 large in £20 notes please.
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It's a SAAB it will not have a major failure in the next 12 months
Now what odds would I get on that?
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I'm not on strong grounds to criticise.
I've spent:
- £1150 on 03/12/15 for a tyre, battery, EGR valve, dual mass fly wheel, clutch, starter motor
- £1000 on 25/09/15 for front discs/pads, 4 x shock absorbers, rear anti-roll bar bushes, 2 x tyres
- £85 on 23/06/15 for a tyre
- £180 on 02/04/15 for a service......
.......so a total of £2415 for 2015...on a car worth £1500 'Trade In' and £3000 Retail.
Man maths you see. My thinking is: I've had it from new (virtually) look after it, it's only got 97k on the clock, it'll do (and will soon become the second car) until something major goes wrong or it falls to bits.
Someone will come along in a minute and tell me what I could have leased for that sort of money.
Last edited by: Westpig on Thu 7 Jan 16 at 16:38
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>> Man maths you see. My thinking is: I've had it from new (virtually) look after
>> it, it's only got 97k on the clock, it'll do (and will soon become the
>> second car) until something major goes wrong or it falls to bits.
I spent a similar amount on the Berlingo - re-shim cam followers to cure cold starting, clutch, alternator and exhaust all in quick succession in Spring. Apart from diagnosing the shimming issue each was a simple issue. Similar rationale, had it from new etc. Betting was that with those jobs done I'd get another 3-4yrs and 50k miles out of it.
Lost that bet when steering played up and wasn't prepared to punt as much again on what, for that job, was parts bingo.
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... battery, EGR valve, dual mass fly wheel, clutch, starter motor
I reckon these are the only items you need to count. The others are consumables - short or long-term - that would cost you much the same whatever you needed them for. So maybe £1050 for the calendar year; less than the depreciation on even an approved-used 3yo like the things I've been buying lately. If the car is otherwise sound, as you clearly believe, I don't think you need to plead man-maths here. Quite the contrary, in fact.
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My Mondeo never needed a battery, EGR valve, DMF, clutch, starter motor, or new bushes. In fact it didn't need anything ever other than normal consumables and a free of charge rubber exhaust hanger right up until I sold it at knocking on 200,000 miles.
But as your Jag is in no way related to a Mondeo then maybe it's bits weren't as strong in the first place eh?
;-)
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>> My Mondeo never needed a battery, EGR valve, DMF, clutch, starter motor, or new bushes.
In fairness, the battery on this 11 year old car was the original...the DMF was going*, so as the labour on that sort of job is somewhat high due to the need to take out the gearbox, I had the clutch done as well... although there was no fault with that, but with a 97k car and intending to keep it, I thought i'd prevent the labour again in the future...and the failing DMF sods up the starter motor, (there was a warning note in the new starter motor box explaining that the 2.0 and 2.2 Ford engine, fitted to Jags and...er..Mondeos... has metal filings from the DMF contaminate the starter motor).
* and that might have been exacerbated by my 2009 re-map, which I have no regrets over.
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>> My Mondeo never needed a battery, EGR valve, DMF, clutch, starter motor, or new bushes
My Mondeo had two EGR valves (one stuck open and one stuck closed), new bushes, locking mechanism for the hatch... and the doors were rusting. This was a 2003 car and I had it from new.
I won't include the clutch that was needed. It will have been as a result of a hill-start on Red Bank near Grasmere in a fully loaded car. Clutch smell as it failed to move. Car coming the other way down there could and should have stopped. But they didn't.
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My Mondeo had two EGR valves (one stuck open and one stuck closed)...
Curious design. Wouldn't a single valve that didn't stick have been more logical?
};---)
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Not two valves on the car. It failed twice. One 'failed' in the open position, and the other in the closed position. One caused excessive smoke from the rear of the car. The other brought the car to a standstill and it would not restart.
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I'd be prepared to spend £1000's on my 8 year old Forester if the need arose. The Jatco gearbox is sus, but then I've been a bit suspicious about it for the last 2.5 years, but it still does what auto boxes do without complaint.
If it did happen go nipples up I'd go for a rebuilt unit from the auto trans specialist in Plymouth.
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>>The Jatco gearbox is sus
Subaru's 4EAT box (built by Subaru but based on a Jatco design I believe) is usually regarded as pretty bulletproof. The Forester XT can run 300lbft through it without complaint.
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>>Subaru's 4EAT box (built by Subaru but based on a Jatco design I believe) is usually regarded as pretty bulletproof
Just as well because the ATF was brown when I first got the car, but (as you know) I changed the fluid umpteen times over a short time period. I changed the filter too at the time. The fluid is still crimson but, the box makes a kind of chuffing noise when in drive, not a metallic noise as such, just a noise which I've never heard before from an auto box. I'm not too bothered about it now as I was a couple of years ago - if it needs doing, then it'll get done.
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>>I've just ordered a second hand gearbox for the SAAB from a dismantler on ebay (12k +ve feedback) for 430 quid. SAAB garage estimating 200 quid to fit. The replacement box is out of a 2004 car with only 72k miles on the clock, which is a bit under half the mileage on my car. 90 day warranty. Fresh fluid in it when fitted and it should be fine for a long time yet.
Crooks love people like you Al.
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Amazing how breakers selling pre-removed chunks of car always seem to have bits off cars with 45-75k miles.
Sounds legit to me....
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I would for example buy if required, a lamp cluster or a bit of trim or yes I'll get it in first, even a door mirror maybe from a breakers yard without too much hesitation. But a complex mechanical item? Nah, maybe not...
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Not sure if I've ever seen a thousand poster before. Could happen. Especially if we get on the subject of second hand winter tyres...
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We have 500 posts to come yet, while the car is in the garage for 6 weeks, with Vic repeatedly saying "I'm sure it will be fixed tomorrow"
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>>I've just ordered a second hand gearbox
Well, its a gamble obviously. But it is one I would have taken and FWIW I think you've done the right thing.
And my prediction is that you'll maybe get 200 miles of niggly faults and then 000s with a fault free gearbox, and car.
I'll give a tenner to a charity of your choice if I'm wrong, i.e. you DO get a major fault in 12 months, and you can give a tenner to any child or cancer charity in thanks if you don't.
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Cheers, NF. You're on.
Here's the scrappy I've ordered from:
stores.ebay.co.uk/gmhrecyclers/
There are straight traders out there, this smells like one of them to me. Dedicated ebay phone team, substantial feedback score, that sort of thing. The types who are out to rip everyone off usually don't want to speak to you and won't get to 12k positive feedback.
The only other boxes on the bay at the moment are in Denmark and priced at a grand or so. It's quite a rare box, seeing as they didn't sell that many 2.2 TiD autos in this country, and the boxes from the petrol variants don't fit due to bellhousing differences.
I've no real reason not to trust this one so far as you can trust a used car part, particularly a complex one like this. I refuse to give in to rip-off Britain Daily Mailism and mistrust everyone as a starting point. Some you win, some you lose. That's life. If I had a De Lorean, maybe I'd be able to see if this gamble will pay off, but I don't. I have to make a choice and they all come with risk and cost. Hey ho.
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And best of all, we can keep this thread running for another year!
Hope it works out, Vić. Will keep the window open after the border checkpoint to listen for the clatter of that GM diesel.
};---)
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Thought you were going to say the clatter of that hookey gearbox !
I'm sure it'll be fine...
;-)
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>>And best of all, we can keep this thread running for another year!
Hopefully not. It takes long enough to load as it is; with my 5Mbps speedos.
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>> Cheers, NF. You're on.
>>
>> Here's the scrappy I've ordered from:
>>
>> stores.ebay.co.uk/gmhrecyclers/
>>
Have we had an update?
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Come on Mods, merge the other one in to here. Don't let NF get away with it.
;-)
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Done... meant to do this earlier but got distracted
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>> And my prediction is that you'll maybe get 200 miles of niggly faults and then
>> 000s with a fault free gearbox
This little comment just caught my eye.
The box does seem to get a little confused, and makes decision slowly, in some circumstances. Most notably in slow, heavy traffic, where I am slowing down but not coming to a stop, then needing to accelerate away briskly. Seems to catch the gearbox out and it dithers a bit about which gear to select. Also sometimes seems to stay in second a few seconds too long, then when it shifts up to third it isn't quite as smooth as you'd like it.
Are you saying that these sort of things improve and "bed in" over the first few hundred miles or so?
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>> Are you saying that these sort of things improve and "bed in" over the first
>> few hundred miles or so?
>>
My gut feeling is that it's knackered and it will only get worse.
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>> My gut feeling is that it's knackered and it will only get worse.
>>
Don't know if that was tongue in cheek, but it's reasonably likely you're right. It was a gamble. If it lasts another year and is dying on it's backside again, then I think I'll change the car rather than trying again.
But here's something to cheer Zero up and give him the opportunity for a good old told you so moment, I've found an engine oil leak since picking the car up. It never used/burnt/leaked a drop before, but we're halfway to minimum on the dipstick and there's a puddle on the garage floor.
Damn and blast, back to the garage on Thursday.
Any theories as to cause? Movement of engine whilst changing box has shifted a seal or caused a perishing seal to give up?
Hopefully nothing too problematic. Sigh.
Never mind, the Mazda has sprung in to action in its usual reliable manner.
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>> Any theories as to cause? Movement of engine whilst changing box has shifted a seal
>> or caused a perishing seal to give up?
Crankshaft oil seal, oil cooler pipe, damaged oil cooler, the sump may have had to come off to tilt the engine. I'd be under there to have a butchers.
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I doubt the sump came off, he'd have charged me for 5l of new engine oil if so. Your other theories are in the realms of the probable - I wonder if the garage will accept responsibility or charge me to fix this? Could go either way. He's usually pretty good, for example not charging me for the drop links he had to cut off.
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I'd just take it back and ask him to look at the oil leak that has been present since the job. If it's down to him, and he's honest, he'll be fair. If not, he'll charge you anyway.
Even honest garages get fed up with people saying faults must have been caused by them, following work. The bloke who does mine even had somebody come back to ask if he would fix a puncture as it didn't have one before it was serviced - three weeks earlier.
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>> I'd just take it back and ask him to look at the oil leak that
>> has been present since the job. If it's down to him, and he's honest, he'll
>> be fair. If not, he'll charge you anyway.
Yep, that's my approach. Booked in for Thursday, Mazda time until then. Can't be bothered jacking it up and looking myself, don't have the time during daylight hours and probably wouldn't know what to look for/at anyway.
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>> probably
>> wouldn't know what to look for/at anyway.
Its black, wet and sticky
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Yes but when it's all over the bleeding place it's hard to spot which joint/seal/pipe/whatever it is coming out of, very slowly. In the dark. I'm not retired, yet.
I know a man who can, though.
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>>Hopefully nothing too problematic
All will become clear once it's on the ramp. Probably something which requires another half inch turn wivva king dick.
Fingers crossed hey!
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>> >>Hopefully nothing too problematic
I am sure that it won't be anything that time and money won't put right :-) !
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So, what's the status? Has the gearbox arrived?
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Yes. It's getting fitted tomorrow as it happens.
Will report back.
How dare you circumvent the forum's favourite thread, I was determined to get that over 1000 posts......... ;-)
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Don't worry, Violet Elizabeth will be along soon and will move it all together. You know what she's like.
I'm still thinking that you're going to be happy you took this path.
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Be cool to have five reverse gears and one forward one anyway...
;-)
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Idiot.
Its a 4 speed box.
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>> Idiot.
>>
>> Its a 4 speed box.
currently its 2.5 speeds
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5 speed box on mine. They went from 4 to 5 with the 2001 facelift.
I've got a pre-facelift X-reg manual 2.0t SE petrol estate as a loaner today. 140k miles on the clock, drives beautifully and in very good nick overall. Testament to the company that even as a back street garage's loaner it's holding up very well. Could do with an air freshener, mind. I might treat them to one when I pop a tenner's worth of fuel in it later.
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>> 5 speed box on mine.
Hah !
( dumb colonials )
;-)
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Never mind, NF. Cheer yourself up with a kebab.
Oh.
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Right then. It's back from the garage.
First impression on driving it home last night was that the new (old) gearbox was a bit "thumpy", particularly when coming to rest and dropping in to first. Uh-oh, thought I. I've dropped an ollockbay (one for the Pig Latin aficionados there) here.
But after a night's rest, perhaps the ECU/software/whatever has reset and recalibrated, or the new oil has circulated properly, because the thumpiness has gone and the box is pretty smooth. There is a bit of flare around third gear, particularly if driver input is hesitant, but it seems to be improving all the time and after all it is a used gearbox so won't ever be perfect. It negotiated St Peter's Hill without crashing and throwing a fault light on the dash, which is more than the old one did.
Speaking of the old box, the oil which came out of it was brown/black, a year and 12000 miles after it was changed, so obviously the box was shot and burning the fluid.
For some reason I can't fathom, the garage had to remove the ARB drop links on the front, and the bolts on those were knackered and had to be angle ground orf. Garage man has fitted new links FOC, which is jolly decent of him, and it's cured a bit of uneven "settling" which I always felt when applying the handbrake. I had thought that springs/shocks might be on the way out, but it seems not. So that's all good.
The car was still up on the lift when I got there to collect it, so I had a good shufty all around at the suspension, brakes, exhaust, underside etc, and all looks to be in good condition, no signs of wear or approaching failure of anything or corrosion.
Onwards we role. Quite happy.
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Quite why I spelled roll as role, I'm not quite sure. If any pendants (sic) are lurking.
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>> Quite why I spelled roll as role, I'm not quite sure. If any pendants (sic)
>> are lurking.
Oh we are, we are.
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So what did the repair cost all in? Parts + shipping + labour + bits etc. etc.
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very cheap for any car.
Very very cheap for a SAAB
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WTF did we have to have this stuck on the end of an 800 reply thread for?
What a total PITA. Someone is depriving a car park of an attendant.
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Snigger.
On the beach with the smartphone are we?
;-) (Only kidding, I wouldn't have minded either way.)
Ooo, hang on. Did you say PITA? Reminds me of something. Oh yeah, what's meaty and spicy and goes well in a bit of pitta?
;-)
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 16:13
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Violet Elizabeth's obsessive behaviour along with her determined belief that she is still in charge of a massively active site using 15 year old technology which needs that kind of ham-fisted control is ridiculous.
And in order;
Beach, Yes. Pitta, FRO.
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Get your facts right baldy - it wasn't me who moved it.
And the OP asked for it to be merged with this thread anyway.
ps, And if you don't like how the site is moderated, tough. We'll do it our way, not yours.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 22 Jan 16 at 16:59
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Mention of Violet Elizabeth Bott reminds me of a wonderful remark by the late, great Denis Healey when Margaret Thatcher was PM.
"Sixty years ago I read in the Just William books about Violet Elizabeth Bott screaming and screaming until she was sick. I never thought I would hear that again - but I have, and it's in Downing Street."
(Sorry for thread drift - we don't mind it on HJ.)
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Ahhh The Backroom... I hardly go there now but only four new non-motoring threads during Jan and two of those were spam!! Maybe that#s cos of the thread drift... :-)
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>> We'll do it our way, not yours.
And so you should. Thats why you're so successful.
Oh.
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>> Thats why you're so successful.
Well we must be doing something right for you (and others) to keep coming back to this 15 year old platform, which I might add was copied and is still being used on the other side of the fence.
However if it's not to your liking then why not start your your own forum? ;)
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>>Well we must be doing something
You would need to look up "because" and "despite" and try to appreciate the difference.
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This reminds me of the thread with the lady journalist with the Jazz. Wonder how much Alanovic is being paid by the breakers?
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I wish you luck. I wouldn't have confessed to this on here until I had a positive result...
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£400 odd is small change to many people, also many people enjoy the challenge of keeping an obsolete car on the road.
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I'm disappointed the gearbox is having issues. And now an oil leak. Not the end of the world but one would like to think you'd have had a bit more luck.
At least it's not a second hand DSG 7-speed dry clutch gearbox! :-) Now that would be a risk.
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>> one would like to think you'd have had a bit more
>> luck.
Don't get much with veehickles, do I. Some would say I bring it on myself no doubt, but it's just a car. I change them often because I like variety and, er, 'interesting' cars and sometimes I drop a gonad. No big deal. The mortgage and the school fees still get paid. I do shop in Lidl, mind. ;-)
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>> I wish you luck. I wouldn't have confessed to this on here until I had
>> a positive result...
>>
Why ever not? I enjoy talking it over with like minded individuals.
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It's back from the garage. It was not an engine oil leak, but transmission fluid. There is a bung on the gearbox which needs to be inserted with a seal to prevent leaks, it appears that the scrappie which dismantled the car removed this bung when draining oil out and replaced it without the necessary seal. My garage didn't spot this (well, you wouldn't unless you were specifically looking for it) when installing the box.
Evidently the transmission fluid has been mixing with dirt and oil on its way out and through the undertray, making it look like engine oil once it landed on my garage floor.
The seal has now been inserted with the bung and it's stopped leaking. Fluid topped back up. I parked the car over some white paper overnight and there are no drops on it this morning, so all is well.
We're back on the road, but I'm still a bit dissatisfied with the new box in so far as I'm getting a bit of shunt on the move and the odd bit of flair around4th gear. I expect the box will soldier on for many thousands of miles, but it is showing sings of wear, and I suppose that's to be expected as it's a used part.
Was the gamble worth it? I'm not sure. Despite spending this money on it I'm still a bit in two minds over whether to keep or sell. If the box was all smooth and fluffy, I'd definitely keep the car. But my eye is wandering to Auto trader still. Damn.
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At least the gearbox should keep going for long enough to give you time to find another Saab, which I suspect is what you'd really like.
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>> At least the gearbox should keep going for long enough to give you time to
>> find another Saab, which I suspect is what you'd really like.
He's had six months already since the start of the thread. It's not *that* difficult to find a new SAAB, surely...
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14 (fourteen) diesel auto 9-5 estates currently on Auto Trader. The only one I really like the look of is 437 miles from me (Elgin) and at least a grand overpriced.
What I was trying to achieve was to get my existing SAAB running to my liking. The work done hasn't quite achieved that, whilst it's not so bad that I can't live with it for a while yet. I am keeping an open mind and a keen(ish) eye out for any replacements which may crop up, but I'm not going to spend too much time and effort pursuing it and will wait and see if the mountain comes to Mohammed.
I could be tempted in to something like a V70 if the opportunity arises.
Hope that's OK with you MM. :-)
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Do what you like, it's your car! One good thing, somebody mentioned up-thread that you might be able to swap the gearbox into the V70...
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It's worth keeping an eye on this stocklist Alanovic, if you fancy a V70.
www.nicholasfletcherltd.co.uk/index.php
He has an excellent reputation and I would certainly recommend him.
Pat
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Thanks Pat, his website certainly gives the impression of a professional outfit.
I do wish dealers wouldn't leave adverts up with SOLD SOLD SOLD on them though. What's the point. I want to know what you HAVE got, not what you did have. But that's a minor grumble, I'll certainly keep an eye on his stock if I decide to go down that path.
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V70?
Nice car.
Cam belt though...
Feel lucky?
;-)
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I convinced myself some months ago that I would countenance a Volvo or Lexus cambelt with a 10yr, 100k interval, so long as a recent change could be proven, or a new belt installed at point of sale. That was the condition I made when attempting to buy that Volvo S60. I wonder what happened to the car? The garage did the cambelt before realising they couldn't fix the aircon. Still a bit sad I didn't get it, the beige leather interior was a lovely place to be. But I console myself with the poor MPGs I'd be getting now on my longer commute.
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Right then, I've been on the blower to the garage, and it seems they didn't "marry" the gearbox to the car by resetting the adaptations and applying software updates in the TCM.
Bit nonplussed that they didn't, but kind of happy that they're not trying to BS me that they did. So, I'll take it in again tomorrow to have them plug the old computer in.
Might be life in the old beast yet.
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>>Right then, I've been on the blower to the garage, and it seems they didn't "marry" the gearbox to the car by resetting the adaptations and applying software updates in the TCM.
On my Volvo (same box I think), the "marrying" made a difference. The software updates didn't.
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Standard support type response - "have you installed the latest updates?"
If not - "do that and see what happens"
You work in IT you must have heard that one :-)
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I've never really understood the software updates in a gearbox.
Presumably the software always behaves the same so if one believes it will correct a fault, every car must have had that fault before the update?
So I can see how an update might improve performance, but clear faults? That escapes me.
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>> Right then, I've been on the blower to the garage, and it seems they didn't
>> "marry" the gearbox to the car by resetting the adaptations and applying software updates in
>> the TCM.
I refer the honourable gentleman to the advice I gave further up the thread, to which i seem to recall he dismissed with distain.
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I have been the fortunate recipient of much advice in this thread, could you isolate the specific example to which you refer please?
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Only 97 to go...
Could happen.
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>> I have been the fortunate recipient of much advice in this thread, could you isolate
>> the specific example to which you refer please?
No, I really can't be 'arrised to do that. Its in there.
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Oh well, you have given me several pieces of differing advice, and I genuinely thank you for it and value it.
So I won't engage in a guessing game with you. Suffice to say I doubt I have treated anything with disdain, unless you consider my simply not taking any given piece of advice as disdainful. Which would be a little sensitive.
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As luck would have it, I scrolled to it first time
ME >>Not that the electronics on the new box and the engine will talk to one another anyway.
You >> Eh? It's a like for like swap. Bolt off, bolt on. Garage has SAAB Tech II device to marry box to car. Sorted.
There, dismissed disdainfully.
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Well I'm sorry you read a disdainful tone from that, it wasn't intended. Perils of typing replies at work with limited time I suppose. To my mind the manner of the response befits the curt, know-it-all tone of the advice, but I didn't take any offence to your post, why would I?
My mistake was in assuming that they'd plug the Tech II in and do the business automatically, but evidently not. The box and engine do talk to each other, otherwise I wouldn't be driving it at all, but a reset seems like it might be needed to start their relationship from a blank sheet.
Now, shouldn't you go sit on a Cactus?
(Joke, it's a JOKE, I'm pulling your leg :-0 ;-) ;-) )
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>but a reset seems like it might be needed to start their relationship from a blank sheet.
In the case of the Volvo it is exactly that. It is that the TCM apparently builds up a history with the box which colours its thinking and prejudices its reaction to future events and situations..
Resetting the TCM makes it think they've only just met so they bear no grudges towards each other and react with less dogma and certainty..
Now if only they fitted wives with the same thing.............
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The big question is, why didn't my garage bother doing it? He must know about it, he certainly knew what I was talking about when I rang yesterday.
Dents confidence a bit to be honest.
And regarding your last sentence, why didn't anyone tell me they weren't in 1998?
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>> The big question is, why didn't my garage bother doing it? He must know about
>> it, he certainly knew what I was talking about when I rang yesterday.
>>
>> Dents confidence a bit to be honest.
Maybe he already tried it...and it didn't go to plan...
... and now that you've highlighted there's still a problem, he'll try to move it forward?
Last edited by: Westpig on Wed 3 Feb 16 at 09:21
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Could be, but the reason I don't think so is that when I went to collect the car, it was still up on the lift, and he was reassembling physical stuff stilll. As soon as it came down I was away. So I don't think he bothered. I reckon you'd do any software stuff last.
Here it is when I went to collect, and the old gearbox (hope the links work):
s1192.photobucket.com/user/alanovich/media/IMG_20160120_164657_zpswikbonk9.jpg.html?o=0
s1192.photobucket.com/user/alanovich/media/IMG_20160120_164631_zpsp2ibifcd.jpg.html?o=1
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Cheers Al, I will take the calendar at £30. It feels like it's been this long :p
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Hee hee, well spotted. I'm hoping NoFM2R spots my little easter egg for him in those piccies.
This, of course, is what I should be buying:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201601300561575
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>> I'm hoping NoFM2R spots my little easter egg for him in those piccies.
Git. I'd wish you years of automotive bad luck, but I'm a bit late.
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>> >> I'm hoping NoFM2R spots my little easter egg for him in those piccies.
I can well believe that residents of Reading consider that to be confectionary.
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>>The big question is, why didn't my garage bother doing it?
Cos nobody cares about your stuff like you do. Garages are rubbish; the lot of them. Likewise workmen of any type. Indeed, all workers - employees. Stands to reason, of course. Anything one does for third parties, one cuts corners. Only things one does for oneself will be done as well as one possibly can.
There are of course exceptions to this rule; some people work for the love of it. Not many though...
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There's a plumber upstairs manhandling one of my executive washrooms at the moment. I do hope you're not right.
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There's a man on my roof at the moment. Yet again. The scaffolding has now been up over two months, to fix just a small leak with a bit of lead ("that's three days' work, guv'.") He's a great craftsman, but if he can cut corners, he will. Problem is, the cut corners keep coming back to bite him, and me.
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Well then, we're back home after taking it for the software reset/upgrade. It took half an hour, and the device did find a software update available, specifically to fix flare between gears. Which is what I'd been seeing. So my hopes were raised.
The adaptations were reset, and the upgrade duly loaded.
The result? OMG. It's like a new car. It's near perfect now. The shifts are seamless and smooth. I am, frankly, staggered. A revelation.
Result.
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All very well, but there's 80 to go, find something....
;-)
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Only 79 now....
So why didn't they do the software upgrade on the first visit?
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I don't know. I was saving that question up for the moment when he asked me to get my credit card out. But he didn't. So I let it lie.
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>> The result? OMG. It's like a new car. It's near perfect now. The shifts are
>> seamless and smooth. I am, frankly, staggered. A revelation.
Thank goodness! I don't particularly care about you, or the car - though I certainly wish no ill will to either. But this thread can now die!
Good result, bet you're chuffed to bits. There's no way I'd have admitted on this thread to having bought a new-old gearbox until it had been fitted and proved to be working properly...
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Thanks. I think. Don't quite understand your murderous thoughts towards the thread, nor your concept of embarrassment about discussing car matters on a car forum, but sentiments appreciated.
Yes, I'm pleased with the result now. Very pleasant waft to work this morning. I am in no way now obsessed with what the next problem will be. Oh no. Thought hasn't crossed my mind.
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>> nor your concept of embarrassment about discussing car matters on a car forum
I'm not sure I could have coped with the 'I told you so' comments...
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Well the best answer to them is to persevere and get it sorted. I hate this word but it's only a bit of (groan) "banter".
Job done.
Last edited by: Alanović on Thu 4 Feb 16 at 09:59
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My first car didn't have any software at all. It had a four-speed manual gearbox with a lovely seamless, smooth gearchange on the steering column. And it never went wrong despite being 14 years old when I got it.
Happy days!
Last edited by: Avant on Wed 3 Feb 16 at 23:03
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Before this thread was started last year, I hadn't realised just how popular Saabs are in my own particular neck of the woods. In the next street there are two owners, both with immaculate 06 models, and just around the corner from them is a lovely looking soft top of a similar vintage.
Its a pity they're no longer in production, as they are similar in size to my ageing Japanese barge, and would make an excellent replacement sometime in the not too distant future.
I hope you get many years out of your replacement gearbox, Alanovic.
Happy motoring...
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Old Saabs have much the same effect on me as seeing someone wearing an old Arran sweater and a battered but once expensive pair of suede chukka boots, they're not very fashionable, and don't look all that stylish, but somehow you know he's probably a decent chap.
;-)
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I always did want to discuss 69 on here...
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68 to go
>> Its a pity they're no longer in production, as they are similar in size to
>> my ageing Japanese barge, and would make an excellent replacement sometime in the not too
>> distant future.
Ageing Japanese Barge Reliable, Ageing Saab not.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 6 Feb 16 at 16:33
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>> Ageing Japanese Barge Reliable
Can't argue with that; only one non service item required in nigh on 14 years, and that was less than £200. But the car has covered quite a low mileage.
>>ageing Saab not.
Ageing Saab Cool...
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66 to go
>> >> Ageing Japanese Barge Reliable
>>
>> Can't argue with that; only one non service item required in nigh on 14 years,
>> and that was less than £200. But the car has covered quite a low mileage.
>>
>> >>ageing Saab not.
>>
>> Ageing Saab Cool...
Heater broke again?
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 6 Feb 16 at 18:01
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Just to help out reaching target - having agreed how special Saab is, what brand do we think the baton is passing on to for that particular niche in the market?
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Interesting question Paul.
I would consider that Lexus possibly fit the bill. Slightly left field, and not chosen by the masses
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Many years ago CAR magazine summarised Saabs as 'thoughtful cars for thoughtful people'. This was long before GM started its baleful influence, and at a time when Volvos were tank-like to drive. So a Saab was a sort of thinking man's Volvo.
The modern equivalent - i.e. what a typical Saab driver of 20 years ago would choose now - I'd say Skoda and Volvo. Lexus perhaps as you suggest MIkeyb, but probably the models at the lower end of their range.
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Coincidentally, this month sees the 20th anniversary of my collecting the first of my two company Saabs, a red 900S. The GM influence was much more discreet at that stage, so while it did share parts with the Cavalier, it really didn't show. Best of all it had that beautiful, characterful, human-centred interior that had evolved but not fundamentally changed since the 99 in 1967.
That was the 'thinking person' bit for me. Volvos of the time were still slabby, outside and in, and the 850 had only just begun the modernizing trend that led to the S80 in 1998. With hindsight, I think the tide had already turned at that point; Volvo had the backing of a new and confident Ford, and a superb stylist in Peter Horbury - while we know only too well what the ineptitude of GM did to Saab. As you know, it was the S60 that really got this thinking person's attention.
And I think Volvo is still there as the thinking person's choice. It offers practicality and a similar feeling that the designers have thought about the people who will travel in it; I never got that impression from our Toyota.
Oddly, perhaps, I'd mention BMW here too. I don't mean the M3, but its mid-range models have a mix of understated style, practicality and simplicity that I find very appealing. And in a world of fussy, overdone interiors - Mercedes, you know who I'm talking about - BMW has kept it simple, clear and white-on-black. Perhaps I ought to have one...
};---)
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Very well put, WdB - reminding us that car design, like any other business, needs to be a 'people business'.
I'm putting together a short-list for my next car which (as I'm semi-retired) will probably have to last longer than the three years or less that I've kept the Skodas for. They've been brilliant but there are too many tales of woe about VAG cars going expensively wrong after the warranty has run out - particularly as I think I'll go back to an automatic this time. Your S60 lasted a long time, which can only be persuasive.
We still need the versatlity of an estate or MPV/crossover, so the BMW 2-series Active Tourer and Volvo V60 are high on the list, largelf for the reasons you've given above. I tried a manual V60 D4, and I'm having a go in an automatic one this week. I'll start a thread after that and hopefully get some lively opinions about the short-list.
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>> Ageing Saab Cool...
>>
>> Heater broke again?
>>
Nice one...
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>> >> Ageing Saab Cool...
>> >>
>> >> Heater broke again?
>> >>
>>
>> Nice one...
>>
I think the aircon might need a regas as it goes...........
As for makers which fill the old SAAB niche now, yes I'd agree Volvo, if only they could see their way clear to put a chain in their engines. Also I'd agree with Skoda, but only really the Superb has that little bit of specialness. A 1.8TSI with the chain engine will be a contender for my money if the SAAB ever dies.
Maybe Infiniti. One of those would be near the top of my list if they made an estate or large hatch instead of a blasted SUV monstrosity. Perhaps the saloon would do, but I think I'll always have a doggie of some kind so perhaps not the best solution.
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Good God is this still going !
I do admire your determination Alanovic... to buy a car which is known for auto box issues and then risk a unknown history replacement box that may be just miles off the same issue. I'd have swapped the Saab long ago... but as Noel Edmunds so frequently says these days... I really hope you've made the right decision.
As a matter of interest on the 5-series forum there are loads of E39 folks being bitten by auto box failure soon after buying... with replacements often exceeding the car's value.
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Nice to see you back, F. Out of interest, roughly how many BM geezers scrap the car compared to replacing the box?
Having done a few hundred miles now since the software rest/upgrade, I'm increasingly happy I've gone this way. I think I'll do an ATF change after 6 months or so, maybe before the long summer drive to Vendee.
You still got the BM? Serving you well?
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Thanks A... as I think folks will have guessed I've never left "in a huff" but the forum has moved a little more towards politics and confrontation than suits me.... but I do look in from time to time and obviously have a desktop alert to when my name is used (learner thread).
I reckon the BMW guys go for about 25% recon boxes, 25% secondhand and 50% sell the car on.
Yep the old bus is still going fine. Had it 20mths now and just routine stuff like brakes, suspension joints and the like... only had to free the rear wiper spindle in the last 7mths so previous pro-active maintenance is paying off.
Tempted to let it do the summer 2016 Scottish holiday tour and then consider a swap for an E61 model... just for a change really not through need.
Still think back to the delight of the old 156!
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>> Good God is this still going !
>>
It must be in line for a Rattle Award.
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Good to see a post from you David (Fenlander) - I had a test drive in a 2013 520D SE on Friday, my C250 goes back to Ling later next month so I have to sort something else out. The 520 was good in many ways, but felt huge. Perhaps it was an optical illusion as the car was while, seemed much bigger that it's dimensions, am I going mad?
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>>>Good to see a post from you David (Fenlander) - I had a test drive in a 2013 520D SE on Friday, my C250 goes back to Ling later next month
Sorry Paul missed this the other day... hope all is well with you and yours. Not going back to Ling then and considering used?? Surely you can sign off a new or lease car again?
From my E39 5-series onwards they've all been a bit bus like and in some ways larger than "normal" family use requires... unless like us at this period you have an absolute need for the space (boating kit & Uni runs). I really like the look of the 5-series after ours right through to now... apart from the trend for dark interiors and brushed stainless type trim where the "wood" should be.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 10 Feb 16 at 00:21
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Another car from Ling is an option. I was in a 2013 520 as nobody has a demonstrator in SE spec (they're all M sports). After 2 years with amg sport ride I'm looking for a bit of comfort. I have no need for a large car in fact I don't actually need anything more than basic transport. All important business meetings now happen in London, so the need for an 'executive' is debatable! I have been working very long hours so I may be a bit scrambled, but I'm finding it difficult to decide what to do. I'll have to do something soon as the Mercedes goes back in about 5 weeks. I might end up having to buy used due to the time scale I now have!
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My dealer lent me a 520d SE for a day while they fixed a minor problem on my 325d M-sport. Properly wafty, I thought, and very impressive - although the view over the high and wide bonnet took a bit of getting used to. Tight in the back, though for such a big car, or it would be top of the list for our next family bus.
I'm sort of used to the M-sport ride now. When it's good, it's really very good, but give it a road it doesn't like and it's horrid. But I like the sports seats and interior toys that aren't in most SEs; such are the perils of the secondhand market.
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I really like the idea of a 5 series auto diesel estate. But only an old one, of course. Like Fenlander's. I'm a bit envious of it, truth be told. Anything newer than 10 years old would be flash.
Mercs and Bimms should only be worn when respectably run-in, in my book.
Each to their own, of course.
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115,000 miles between my two now. Will that do?
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Nah. Sorry. They're still too new by a good chalk. Mileage is no substitute for proper ageing. I apply the 10 year limit ferociously, although thinking about it a 55 plater would be a bit nouveau for me. 53 or earlier, that's where it's at right now.
My two-doors-away neighbour doesn't get this, he's just traded in his 53 plate 530i saloon for a 64 plate M Sport 3 series GT thingy. Just as the 5 was hitting respectability he got plate anxiety. Weakling. His wife's Disco is on a private plate though, so I expect they'll keep that a while.
:-)
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What's the state of play?
Any news - apart from 953?
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All still well thanks, Duncan. It's just survived a week in the hands of Purple Parking's Heathrow Meet & Greet service. The radio is recovering from the trauma of being tuned to Westside Radio though. *shudder*
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I hate that. Apart from anything else, don't these mechanics and others understand that Radio 3 is good for them?
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It when you park it at heathrow, and when you return find out the radio has been tuned to Radio Aberdeen you get peed off.
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When I had the guy in to do my electrical work for the car, he was there for seven hours. As we always have Radio 3 on when we're in, that's what he got.
He was a brave little soldier and didn't complain, especially as it was the week Boulez had just died and it was also Stockhausen week.
Goodness me there were some toe tappers.
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Did he perk up when a listener called in to say how much she liked The Lark Ascending?
Best swipe I've heard at the new, dumbed-down R3 (Boulez and Stockhausen notwithstanding) came via Ed Reardon. He was paying one of his periodic visits to Berkhamsted police station when the desk sergeant told him, "Hold on a minute, Mr Reardon, it's time for this morning's mystery instrument. Ah yes, I think that's a glockenspiel."
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Surely all we need now to get this thread to 1000 replies is the attention of fluffy...
Which reminds me, is there an ignore button somewhere on this website?
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Obviously just an existing poster on the wind up with a new login name. Best to ignore, even if there is no button to do so. I expect someone cleverer than me has twigged who it is.
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I was thinking about the dumbing down thing on R3 this very morning, when the delectable Clem told us she was going to play the opening from Glass's Akhnaten, and she hoped that there might just be one or two listeners who could actually bear it, but basically she understood it wasn't for everyone.
If your probably minority station has to apologise in advance for what it's going to play, then heaven help us.
Actually, I like Glass in small doses and was quite happy with it myself, and she said afterwards a tweet from somewhere had flooded in as well, so it wasn't just me.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 22 Feb 16 at 13:14
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>>>. Like Fenlander's. I'm a bit envious of it, truth be told.
Don't be... a car is a car is a car.
I have accurately reported on its reliability and benefits but as I've said in the past you have to remember I do my own servicing/repairs so no labour charges which makes a massive difference to running such an old bus being a pleasure or disaster.
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F, are you of a mechanical level to be able to change an automatic gearbox?
I do the basic servicing myself, but I can't attempt big repairs because I don't have the tools/lifts/time. Nor the skills, but I'd be happy to again them by trial and error if I had a car which I could afford to be laid up whilst sorting something out.
I do quite fancy the sound of your Bimmer, and I also admire your skills/knowledge and wish I had the time to get to that sort of level.
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He has the skills to strip down an automatic box, never mind replace it.
However, Fenlander's cars have always best profited from his mechanicking attitude. Very disciplined, objective and precise.
Its a family trait I expect.
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>>> Its a family trait I expect
Indeed
You do have to accept there is sense in using experts who are doing specialist work like auto boxes and diesel pumps etc but yes I guess if I had the proper manuals a box strip would be possible... however...
I'm within a whisker of 60 now and balance jobs between those that are doable in a domestic garage by an old fella that might rather be doing something else... and those I'd rather pay others to do.
So all servicing is tackled, code reader diagnostics, spring changes, dropping the BMW rear subframe/diff for new mounts, taking off the prop to overhaul, timing belts and the like. Might just do a clutch on a Polo or Jazz but if needed on the BMW it would be off to someone else because it's all so heavy.
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We'll never get the other thread into four digits if people keep starting new ones.
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It's going just fine thanks, NF. Seems to have improved MPG by about 2 (wowsers) since changing the box. The old one was giving "lock up" errors, so perhaps now it's locking up properly and this is causing a slight improvement.
In fact, it's going too well. I've still go that "I really like shiny new cars" feeling, but there is no good reason to consider ditching the car now, it's just about right (barring a couple of cosmetic jobs I would like to do, i.e. the door handles are worn and would benefit from a repaint, also the black bits of the door mirror mounts - maybe I should lend the car to Runfer's missus and the solution would present itself).
One other thing I might attend to is cold starting. It has had new injector seals, which improved the crank on cold from about 10 seconds (sometimes longer) down to 5 max. Still, 5 secs is a bit annoying. I'm minded to believe, from trawling SAAB forums (fora?) that this would be eliminated by forcing the glow plugs to come on at each start, rather than only below 3 deg C, as is thought to be the case. Really cold mornings see it start on the button, so I'm minded to believe this is the case. The dash has no glow plug light so hard to tell if they ever come on, but observational evidence supports my conclusion.
Anyway. MOT booked for 5th April before expiry on 16th. I wonder if it will give me any pause for thought? One suspect item is the rear nearside suspension which I think is getting saggy/lazy. Spring or shock? Or both? Either way, I suspect a change for both sides before too long. No idea what that will cost, I'm not up to spannering it myself.
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Well, that is good news.
You will keep us posted with frequent updates, won't you?
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Seeing as you asked, and it's a motoring forum, OK then.
You can be reassured by the fact that NF asked today, and I provided. It would have been rude not to.
How's your car, D? Might make an interesting and informative topic for a motoring forum.
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Not till something goes wrong. It's a Mercedes and that's not supposed to happen.
Although mine, as it happens, is running a bit cool at the moment. Taking it to my blokey tomorrow to see if it needs a new thermostat.
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Another gearbox fault saga? The temperature could be off because the engine coolant is leaking into the gearbox through a holed ATF cooler.:-)
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Worn black trim or even stone chips in black paint can be very successfully disguised using an indelible black marker pen.
Thank me later. It was nothing.
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>> Worn black trim or even stone chips in black paint can be very successfully disguised
>> using an indelible black marker pen.
>>
I have actually done that in the past!!
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>> >> Worn black trim or even stone chips in black paint can be very successfully
>> disguised
>> >> using an indelible black marker pen.
>> >>
>>
>> I have actually done that in the past!!
>>
I don't hang about. I coloured one door handle with an permanent marker pen, but it dried a kind of weird bronze colour. So I nipped in to Hobbycraft and they sold me a Uni Posca pen/felt ink dispenser thing and it's done the job brilliantly. Perfect match. Supposed to be indelible, according to the arty lady in the shop. £3.59.
Thanks, Runfer. A virtual pint/door mirror is yours.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 14:57
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My pleasure, but I'd probably avoid wearing white shirts for a day or two...
;-)
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Not a problem for me, but I will observe the children and their school uniforms..........
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.....Operation Yewtree will be knocking at your door shortly.........
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Ah, perhaps I should have said MY children.
I'm not helping myself, am I?
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I usually park the car in the garage, but last night it was left outside. A heavy dew descended. And this morning, the Posca pen paint started rubbing off on the children's hands.
I hereby retract my recommendation for this solution.
Mrs A is in the Mazda, on her way to Cheshire with a dry cleaning bill. And a rolling pin.
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Wrong type of dew obviously. Southern dew, full of impurities.
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"Posca is a water-based marker to paint on all surfaces. Posca can be used by professionnals, beginners and children in countless areas such as creative crafts ..."
Water-based. That'll be your error... At least it will wash out so no need for the dry cleaner's.
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I hear it works on tires as well.
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.....and bodywork if you get a similar colour, for chips to white vehicular or domestic paintwork, Tippex is your friend.
After several nags about a chip on one of the bedroom door frames showing dark brown varnish, I Tippexed it over when she was out and it was never mentioned again.
Result !
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I might give that a go, Runfer. Can always paint over if it's naff. Cheers.
I was considering plastidip.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 08:53
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Haven't been on for a while, can someone give me the TL;DR
Thanks :)
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Happy to do so, ToMoCo:
The SAAB's running fine since the gearbox was replaced, but could benefit from very minor cosmetic tittivating.
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Another gearbox fault saga?
Ever the optimist, ON! Leaky transmission radiators were a feature of the first generation of 211s and mine is from the second. Wouldn't loss of coolant tend to make the temperature rise, anyway?
Sorry to disappoint you but blokey reckons thermostat too. He's ordered a new one to fit this afternoon.
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Not looked after that car very well WDB. Skimped on maintenance by the sounds of it, paint repairs etc.
Tsk.
;-)
Edit - 17 to go...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 14:07
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>> Wouldn't loss of coolant tend to make the temperature rise, anyway?
>>
My hypothetical scenario included coolant / ATF transfer, wrecking your gearbox. So no coolant loss. Glad it is a simple fix, the last thermostat problem I had was in the early 1980s on a Datsun 160B, it was stuck half open, or shut, fixed it myself.
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The owners' forums suggest that thermostats are one of the few things that do go wrong with the 220 CDI engine. All those Sprinters charging about are only trying to get the engine warm.
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Car will be done in another hour. First part that arrived was the wrong one - too hot, presumably, if the original was too cold. Let's hope the next attempt gets us to the Goldilocks zone.
Hey, we could get this thread over the line tonight. We must leave the big moment to the lad 'imself, though. Only fair.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 22 Mar 16 at 17:05
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>> Hey, we could get this thread over the line tonight.
It's been an interesting read...
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Took my favoured indie garage two attempts to get the correct thermostat for our Mazda when that needed doing last year. Obviously, the second part was quite a bit more expensive than the one he thought he needed to start with. Apparently you can't replace the thermostat alone on that car without replacing the housing too. And the part which comes with the housing is three times the price. Obviously. Why they even sell the thermostat without the housing when you can't replace one standalone I haven't quite worked out. Just one of those pay up and sigh moments.
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Well I paid up without too big a sigh, although my £40 thermostat came to £180 once the replacement coolant and the labour were counted. Does seem to have made a difference: the temp gauge (horrid LCD bar thing but at least with numbers rather than just coloured blobs) is now touching 90°C and the computer's mpg for the 25 miles home is now back in the 40s.
Will that do for looking after, Humph?
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>>
Hey, we could get this thread over the line tonight
Yeah, kind of artificial though. Its only happened because one or more of the moderators have, over time, moved so many different threads into here.
Using that approach you could grow it to any number you wished, but still not really achieve anything.
Frankly I shall be glad when the obsession passes, because its a right PITA on my phone.
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I disagree. That count-to-ten pause while it loads is a chance to reflect on the essential pointlessness of what we do here.
Perhaps when it gets there, we can give the thread a Viking funeral and never speak of it again. After all, Vić's estate car has its new autobox, mine (a mere walk-on, I know) doesn't need one, so we're there, we did it. What a team!
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>> Perhaps when it gets there, we can give the thread a Viking funeral
you want to set fire to Vics SAAB and float it down the thames?
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>> Hey, we could get this thread over the line tonight
Line? What line?
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>> >> Hey, we could get this thread over the line tonight
>>
>> Line? What line?
>>
You'll find out in a minute.
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Yay, I got it!! LOL Where's the fireworks then?
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For heaven's sake, Smokie, you've banal-bombed Vić's big moment. Never mind, it's appropriate enough in its way. If I'm wrong and there really is a last trump I expect I'll miss it because there's someone next to me loudly guiding an old duffer to the gents.
};---)
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You blew that one!
It should have been Alanovitch's post.
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We'll have to let him do the 10,000th now. Should please NoFM.
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I was half hoping that a moderator would lock it at 999 posts.
That's what I would have done. Especially if it was Zero's thread.
;-)
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>> I was half hoping that a moderator would lock it at 999 posts.
>>
>> That's what I would have done. Especially if it was Zero's thread.
>>
>> ;-)
Around the point where I said "I told you so"?
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...if it was your thread, wouldn't that have been about post 3?.............
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>> Around the point where I said "I told you so"?
Ah now Z, I'm sure you "told me so" on this thread to scrap the SAAB. No doubt that time will come, but not yet, Gladiator. Not yet.
;-)
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>> Frankly I shall be glad when the obsession passes, because its a right PITA on
>> my phone.
A pain on anything where the internet connection is a bit slow. Surely it's about time this forum software moved into the modern times with the ability to have long threads broken into pages?
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Oops apols, I hadn't even realised a milestone was being reached until just before it happened. Didn't occur to me to let Al be the 1000th.
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Works fine on my phone. Dunno what all the fuss is about. I think the heat gets to colonials.
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"I think the heat gets to colonials."
It's malaria. That's why I drink tonic water to get the quinine. Diluted by gin of course..
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>> Didn't occur to me to let Al be the 1000th.
>>
It's OK, smokie, I am not exactly upset at the situation.
Keep up the good work.
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MOT day.
It has passed. (OK, I missed a number plate bulb on my pre-check. Drat.)
Advisories: front brake pads, rear upper suspension arm bushes (only very slight play, should be good for a year according to MOT bloke).
Had a good chat with the tester, spoke about tendency of fear end to sag under load and recover a bit too slowly for my likings, and he's said the rear shocks are getting lazy but nothing visibly wrong from an MOT point of view.
So I've asked for a quote for all the above to be corrected.
Also, going to get the aircon regassed at Kwik Fit (fix or no charge) this afternoon, as it's getting a bit warm (gulp). Fingers crossed for that one.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 5 Apr 16 at 12:28
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>> Also, going to get the aircon regassed at Kwik Fit (fix or no charge) this
>> afternoon, as it's getting a bit warm (gulp). Fingers crossed for that one.
let me know how that goes, I am considering same.
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Will do.
Quote has come back from MOTing garage, £597 for all those jobs. Phew. Hmm. Pads £88, rear shocks £290, rear upper sus arm bushes, £218.
That sounded a little rich, so, discarding the sus arm bushes as they will last another year, I put the brake pads and shocks in to "repairanycar.com", and I got a quote back from the same garage at £279 for the two jobs, so a hundred sheets lower than they have quoted me directly, of "free" brake pads. That's a bit disappointing to be frank, I'm a regular customer with them.
I'll ask Kwik Fit to quote when I go in there this afternoon, see what they say.
Should I be attempting the pads myself? I've got the tools I'm sure, I've just never done pads before and I'm a little nervous about interfering with brakes. Rhetorical question, but opinion welcome for discussion. Same goes for shocks I suppose, maybe I can do them myself.
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Ten minute job I should think AV.
Allow a weekend though...
;-)
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Aaaaaaaand, we're back from Kwik Fit.
Aircon regassed and now nice and cold. No leaks detected on test (they run some dye through or something, matey boy said). Clean bill of health. £55.
Not much more to say, can't really go wrong as there's no charge if the regas doesn't take. Free coffee from nice machine. 90 minutes it took from arriving, had a walk by the Thames and a sarnie to pass the time. Then bumped in to a neighbour whose 2010 Merc E estate (LEC, is it?) was in for an MOT. Failed. Only on a tyre though, inside edge worn. Apparently he'd been down a pothole last year, had to replace the tyre but hadn't had the tracking/alignment done. False economy, so not the car's fault.
Have had time to think about the bits and pieces from the MOT. I'll get the brake pads done ASAP, then the shocks before summer holidays with fully laden car (4x people, luggage, 4x bikes on roof). Suspension bushes can wait till next service (October) or next MOT.
On she rolls, good cars these SAABs. ;-)
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Another way to look at it: how many month's repayments on a new family-sized load lugger would you get for change out of £600?
Well, for £600 plus the cost of the gearbox job, I suppose, but its still cheap motoring from a car you seem happy with.
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Yes, I agree Gromit. Just sounds at least 100 quid top heavy for the work. Using repairanycar.com, the quotes are significantly lower than my usual garage.
I suppose it's like insurance/recovery - your existing provider will always give a big renewal quote banking on consumer inertia.
I think I'm just going to get the brakes done for now, and hit my usual garage with their own quote from repairanycar - i.e. 59 sheets as opposed to 88. If they don't match, then I go elsewhere. It's not a distress purchase yet, just an MOT advisory to address.
Actually, has anyone here used repairanycar.com? Galls me a bit as I had this idea about 10 years ago, but of course I was too lazy to do anything about it. Wanted to call it Service Switch. Hey ho.
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>> Yes, I agree Gromit. Just sounds at least 100 quid top heavy for the work.
>> Using repairanycar.com, the quotes are significantly lower than my usual garage.
Annoyingly I can't get a general range of quotes for a cam belt change on the lancer using that site.
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Ah, cambelts. There's your mistake, right there.
;-)
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KF did my aircon last year. Very happy with the service. They took out 80g of coolant and put back 500g, (think those were the numbers, if not they were similar ratio) following which it was great.
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£80 ish sounds right, to be fair. Decent pads will be £35 or so, what's their hourly rate inc VAT? I don't know what the labour time is, 45 minutes?
He didn't tell you they needed doing when they didn't.
A trustworthy independent who does good work, uses decent parts and does nothing unnecessary is what saves you money on old cars.
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>> Have had time to think about the bits and pieces from the MOT. I'll get
>> the brake pads done ASAP, then the shocks before summer holidays with fully laden car
>> (4x people, luggage, 4x bikes on roof). Suspension bushes can wait till next service (October)
>> or next MOT.
>>
>> On she rolls, good cars these SAABs. ;-)
>>
The only thing I would point out with your suggestion is that you will be adding extra cost in by having the bushes done separately, as the shocks, springs, and the carrier they are mounted in have to come off to replace the bushes. Done the job myself! Make sure you get good quality suspension bushes, I bought some cheap from the bay of plenty and they lasted less than a year. Vectra B bushes can be used, as the suspension is the same.
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Mantee, hear what you're saying but thirty quid is thirty quid - if the same place can quote me 59 quid and 88 quid, then I think I'm within my rights to ask for the job to be done for the lower quote.
Mike, Thanks for the tip, but the garage has quoted me for the three jobs seperately, so do you think the quotes would increase if they weren't linked? They specifically listed it as brakes 88, shocks 290 and bushes 218. Not sure they're takling in to account the nature of the jobs as you have described them, rather given me off-the-shelf book prices. Garage geezer did say the bits were common with Vx so you're spot on there.
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>> Mantee, hear what you're saying but thirty quid is thirty quid - if the same
>> place can quote me 59 quid and 88 quid,
Ah, got it. Hadn't noticed it was the same place.
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>> Mike, Thanks for the tip, but the garage has quoted me for the three jobs
>> seperately, so do you think the quotes would increase if they weren't linked? They specifically
>> listed it as brakes 88, shocks 290 and bushes 218. Not sure they're takling in
>> to account the nature of the jobs as you have described them, rather given me
>> off-the-shelf book prices. Garage geezer did say the bits were common with Vx so you're
>> spot on there.
>>
Just having another think about it, I made a mistake, it's not the whole shock/spring assembly that has to be removed for the bushes, it's just the bolt that secures the lower eye of the shock to the axle assemble that has to be removed. This releases the tension and enables the joints to be removed. I'd guess around 45 mins each side to replace the shocks, plus the cost of the parts (note that the genuine shocks don't IIRC come with the bushes, so that's an extra cost). I'd be OK with using a reputable brand of aftermarket shocks. As an example, I found standard Bilsteins for £55 each, which makes your quote of £290 look very high, as I doubt they would be using such high quality parts.
I've done some research on the bushes for you. The genuine Saab bushes are around £25 each, non-genuine around £10 (both from suppliers I know, I haven't trawled Ebay). The Saab part number is 4567244, haven't checked the GM number/price. There are 2 each side. If it were me, I wouldn't be replacing just the top ones, as it's probably only around another 15 mins to replace the bottom ones as well, plus of course the cost of the part. I would guesstimate that in a proper workshop, it would take around an hour each side if there are no complications (the bushes can be a burger to remove, as they need a puller). This should give you some idea on how the prices stack up - the £218 sounds about right for replacing just the top bushes with genuine ones, but you'd need to question whether their quote was for just the top two or all 4. IMHO, I would do all 4 and use genuine dealer items, but I can see where you are coming from in expenditure terms, I had the same thought processes on ours! As a halfway house, I guess you could just do the top ones, but having been bitten once, I would only ever use genuine items.
The other thing to take into account is that the rear suspension geometry will be upset, whether just two or 4 are replaced, so you'd need a full wheel alignment. They may not have factored that in.
Re brakes, genuine Saab pads are c. £27 a pair, plus I'd guess perhaps 30 minutes per side. It would always take me longer as I'd clean things up, lube the relevant bearing surfaces on the calipers etc. Once again, I'd be wary about pads and only use a known quantity - e.g. genuine Saab, Pagid.
HTH. If you want more detailed advice off the forum, I've no problem with the mods passing on my email adress to you.
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Mike, thanks very much for the detailed and thoughtful post. Much appreciated. So am I right in taking from your post that there's no great advantage in doing the bushes at the same time as the shocks?
Garage have got back to me after I asked for the job to be done at 59 sheets. They said they disassociate themselves from repairanycar and have been asking for a year to be removed from their website. Evidently the website just dishes out quotes without authorisation from the garage. Which is a bit sharp.
So I'll book it in with them for the brake pads at 88 quid, they have assured me they only use Brembo pads, which are good enough for me I should think. They did do the rear pads for me two years back and they've been fine. It's probably about 30 quid for the pads and an hour's labour, so fairy nuff.
I shall suck my teeth a bit more about the shocks/bushes, probably do the shocks in July just before going abroad, and then the bushes before the next MOT.
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>> Mike, thanks very much for the detailed and thoughtful post. Much appreciated. So am I
>> right in taking from your post that there's no great advantage in doing the bushes
>> at the same time as the shocks?
>>
Correct.
The Brembo pads sound absolutely fine, and the overall price of parts and labour sounds fair.
One of the problems with older Saabs (and others to a similar extent), is that it can be the labour element in replacing failed parts that makes them uneconomical to keep running, not the actual cost of the parts. But they are tough cars, mostly relatively simple, and there are still plenty of specialists around for those jobs that the local garage can't tackle.
Still regret ours going, particularly in the way it did.
Without wishing to turn this into an ad, I have a rubber boot protector and full set of rubber mats suitable for your 9-5 at £30 for the lot, which I can bring to the UK over the next couple of weeks. Can't get rid of the mats here as they are for a RHD car! Let me know if you are interested.
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Mike, I already have the rubber mats for the front and rear footwells, but I'd love a boot liner. However, 30 quid sounds fair just for the boot liner so if you happen to be passing Reading on your travels I'll take the lot. Maybe I can sell the mats I don't need. Cheers.
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Will be in touch. We're awaiting the birth of our first grandchild, so can't be exactly sure when we'll be around (due 17th April, we'll be hitting the road as soon as possible after the birth). But we will be passing Reading on the way from Dover to Weston-Super-Mare. Can we arrange for an email address swap via the mods so that we can be in touch off the forum?
I've passed Al your email addy. Smokie.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 6 Apr 16 at 11:56
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Sounds like a fun drive, for a splendid reason. Email sorted, with thanks to smokie.
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>> Garage have got back to me after I asked for the job to be done
>> at 59 sheets. They said they disassociate themselves from repairanycar and have been asking for
>> a year to be removed from their website. Evidently the website just dishes out quotes
>> without authorisation from the garage. Which is a bit sharp.
The true cynic might think that they say that to all who challenge.
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I think I've decided to not bother with the shocks for now, seeing as they weren't advisories and are not broken broken. The car does ride a bit unevenly over bumps, but hey. It's 13 years old.
Brake pads were done by the local SAAB specialist with original SAAB pads.
I have just done an oil/filter/air filter/pollen filter service, and discovered a smashed fog light on the driver's side. Bottoms. Always something, isn't there? Have purchased a used replacement from ebay for 15 quid, so not too bad. To be fitted at the weekend.
I have the fuel filter in hand, which is a plastic insert rather than a big metal contraption, but I'm nervous of fiddling with fuel lines so will have a man do it for me.
Next scheduled work: brake fluid in the autumn. Would also like to get EGR, MAP and MAF removed and cleaned as preventative measures. Have a suspicion that the car will be more responsive, start better and be more economical with an EGR clean, so should prioritise that. Again, bit nervous of fiddling with those, but maybe I should attempt the EGR. It's easily accessible. I have purchased the Haynes manual so maybe that will give guidance, and there are guides on the usual forums/fora.
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Exciting news. Yesterday afternoon the engine started idling a bit unevenly, and the Check Engine Light came on. Eeeeek.
Got home, whipped out and cleaned the MAP and MAF sensors, and cleaned the accessible part of the EGR valve. Couldn't get the whole ting off to clean the internal plnuger and stuff though.
Light stayed on this morning, so I swung by my friendly SAAB specialist for a code read - however the light turned itself off as I arrived. The code read gave 2 possible causes - yes, the MAF and EGR.
Decided I'd probably done enough to sort it out and decided to not try to fix that which seems to be already fixed (not only that they were busy and didn't have a slot for a proper investigation today).
Car now running super smooth and pulling strongly. We're going on a wee tour of Wales (Reading-Carmarthen-Criccieth-Carmarthen-Reading) next week for half term, let's hope it stays that way. I've considered falling back to the Mazda for the trip, but I think the more comfy and economical SAAB is good to go now.
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We're going on a wee tour of Wales (Reading-Carmarthen-Criccieth-Carmarthen-Reading)
That's a long way to go for a wee. Perhaps you should take one of ON's funnels.
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Plenty of undergrowth beside Welsh A roads I hope.
Autotrader got a bit of exercise last night, but I think we're OK for now. SAAB lives to fight another day.
(Anyone worked out where RDH's Merc is getting auctioned? Mind you if I bought it something catastrophic would fail immediately.)
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 27 May 16 at 11:09
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>>
>> (Anyone worked out where RDH's Merc is getting auctioned? Mind you if I bought it
>> something catastrophic would fail immediately.)
>>
If he were to send you the reg no by email, you could do a search of various auction sites, Shirley?
Or perhaps the people who took it in could be a little more helpful?
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Actually, RDH's old Merc has probably got a Manchester reg, hasn't it. Or, worse, Miseryside. The SAAB's is FX53 XXX, originally registered by a dealer in Grimsby, and that's quite northern enough (it really does start FX53, but the last three letters are not XXX).
Evidently the "Forest and Fens" meaning of the F- prefix is a little stretched if it covers Grimbo, surely they should register things Y-?. Was Grimbo ever in Yaaarksher, or has it always been in Lincolnshire, or Umberside, or whatever it is now?
Our Mazda has a far more satisfactory London registration.
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 27 May 16 at 13:20
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Grimsby?? My Focus is FX too, I hadn't realised it came from up norf. Thought Fords were usually Essex or the Channel Islands :-)
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surely they should register things Y-?. Was Grimbo ever in Yaaarksher, or
>> has it always been in Lincolnshire, or Umberside, or whatever it is now?
Y for Yellowbellies you mean?
www.bbc.co.uk/lincolnshire/asop/people/what_is_a_yellowbelly.shtml
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>> Evidently the "Forest and Fens" meaning of the F- prefix is a little stretched if
>> it covers Grimbo, surely they should register things Y-?. Was Grimbo ever in Yaaarksher, or
>> has it always been in Lincolnshire, or Umberside, or whatever it is now?
(Great) Grimsby was never in Yorkshire which always ended on North bank of Humber etc. Would have been Lindsey in the old Parts, similar to Yorkshire's Ridings, which made up Lincolnshire. Later South Humberside and now unitary authority of North East Lincolnshire along with Cleethorpes.
Were SAAB cars imported through Immingham with the concessionaire based thereabouts?
Believe my Skoda's FR has similar roots albeit via a more southerly port.
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Evidently the "Forest and Fens" meaning of the F- prefix is a little stretched if
>> it covers Grimbo, surely they should register things Y-?. Was Grimbo ever in Yaaarksher, or
>> has it always been in Lincolnshire, or Umberside, or whatever it is now?
Forest and Fens, not sure of that reference? No the cod heads were never in Yorkshire they were never that lucky, plenty thought they were though. Annoyed about that for some reason they were.
Humberside never lasted long, it was as popular as piles inside the east riding.
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>> Forest and Fens, not sure of that reference?
Wiki link on current UK reg system and 'memory tags'.
tinyurl.com/p7lgswo
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 27 May 16 at 22:21
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>> >> Forest and Fens, not sure of that reference?
>>
>> Wiki link on current UK reg system and 'memory tags'.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/p7lgswo
>>
>>
Ahh right, sorry totally lost on me, I'd have to be some sort of insomniac to be researching that sort of thing. No offence to anyone who is interested in researching that type of thing.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 27 May 16 at 22:29
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>> Ahh right, sorry totally lost on me, I'd have to be some sort of insomniac
>> to be researching
Not research, I recalled the 'memory tag' thing from trying to understand why, post 2001, UM was not Leeds, NV Northampton or DK Rochdale.
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>> Not research, I recalled the 'memory tag' thing from trying to understand why, post 2001,
>> UM was not Leeds, NV Northampton or DK Rochdale.
>>
i hadn't have given any thought as to how any number plate code is or was constructed or what meaning they have until I read the above. Each to their own though.
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UM was Leeds, actually. I can remember my delight as a child when I found out that YUM was from Leeds and YUK from Wolverhampton. I'll say no more....
Last edited by: Avant on Sat 28 May 16 at 12:02
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>> Plenty of undergrowth beside Welsh A roads I hope.
>>
Car wee tanks are a recent innovation, initially introduced by shed draggers.
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I thought that Urea was a 90s Fiat hatchback, wasn't it?! Kind of car that Alanov lusts over?
(Also cue jokes about Runf taking the p***... Literally).
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>> I thought that Urea was a 90s Fiat hatchback, wasn't it?! Kind of car that
>> Alanov lusts over?
You're conflating the Ulysse (90s MPV) and the Marea (90s saloon) there, Auntie. And guess what? I've owned one of each.
:-)
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Well the SAAB has just completed the half-term tour of Wales, on a single tank of fuel. Impressive for such a big old shed.
However it has disgraced itself in the eyes of Mrs A by throwing the CEL and a kind of semi-limp mode every so often, as it did once before leaving on our trip. Carb cleaner on the external part of the EGR seems to help, but the problem soon returns. Off to my SAAB specialist to get the thing off and cleaned properly and see how we go. Meanwhile, Mrs A has begun grumbling about how good the Mazda is and aren't Toyotas reliable and etc etc etc.......
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 6 Jun 16 at 11:23
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Another few posts and this thread will reach 1066. Just thought I'd mention it given the topicality of matters European.
Carry on...
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>>Another few posts and this thread will reach 1066. Just thought I'd mention it given the topicality of matters European
Took over the gaff then. ditto 43ad. Adolph intended to do the same in WW2, but failed thanks to our brave young men.
Shame that our country has been handed over to the European Union. At least I can sleep soundly in my bed with the knowledge that I played no part in the affair.
Last edited by: Dog on Mon 6 Jun 16 at 12:36
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Or, to look at it another way, it's a threat that's very unlikely to arise again in our lifetime, now that the nations of Europe are trading amicably and pulling in broadly the same direction. I'd far rather be alive now than in 1945 - although I realize for some here it's not an either-or.
}:---)
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Don't mention the whoa, I did once ...!
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>> I'd far rather be alive now than in 1945
Interesting. If born in 1945 you could look forward to seventy years of ever-increasing prosperity in a generally peaceful world. Yes, the Cold War might have been quite scary, but *nobody died in it.
Today you are born in a world of huge prosperity. With huge national debt comparable to 1945, but without the forthcoming benefits of a swelling and healthier population that we had then. With Europe on the verge of disintegration. The Greeks burning German flags.
Who knows what comes next.
_______________________________
*no civilians and few soldiers
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> Interesting. If born in 1945 you could look forward to seventy years of ever-increasing prosperity
>> in a generally peaceful world. Yes, the Cold War might have been quite scary, but *nobody died in it.
>>
I doubt it was so rosy looking forward at the time, colossal war debts, no idea what the post war world would look like, economies across Europe ruined or on a war footing. A huge refugee problem inside Europe dwarfing todays problems. Got better of course, but I'm not sure how inevitable it felt.
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"Meanwhile, Mrs A has begun grumbling about how good the Mazda is and aren't Toyotas reliable and etc etc etc....... "
Store that one up in your memory Alanovic - if the pukka Saab does eventually collapse in a heap, you can take over the Mazda and get Memsahib a Toyota. There are plenty around to suit all budgets, and one with service history will go on forever.
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Yeah, that's one of the current options. She's lost confidence in the car, and I had been planning to use it for summer hols to France due to its frugality, relative to the Mazda. Might well be taking the Mazda now.
SAAB goes for its EGR clean on Wednesday, Mazda is in play for the moment.
I like Avensiseses, but fear the VVTi oil problem on older 1.8/2.0 ones. A 2.4 auto would be very nice as a second car, but there are only 3 of such beasts on Autotrader nationwide at the moment. It's a rare model.
A second Mazda 6 is always a tempting option, they're such good cars - near perfect all-round, except for fuel consumption...............the Mazda 3 1.6 auto (for she insists upon auto, there is no 3 2.0 auto sadly) is barely any more economical, and way down on power. Not an attractive combination.
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This all sounds like a lot of pain to put yourself through in order to find a car without a cam belt.
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The presence of a cambelt as opposed to a chain does not mitigate against other components failing/requiring servicing. The faults I've had are common to all cars. But I'll never have a failed cambelt destroying the engine.
You always seem keen on high milers, Mapster, mine's on 140k now. I think I'll go for low miles next time I change the car.
It's all a pay-off anyway, cheap old car requiring repairs, or expensive new car which hopefully won't. Cars are just a sunk cost whichever way you do it.
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The answer, is either 42...or a Mondeo estate.
;-)
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If I could turn back time.................I'd go and get my old Mondeo estate again, from CarGiant. S reg, bought at a year old on 13k miles for £7k. 100,000 miles of trouble free motoring.
But, it was a petrol, manual, no aircon 1.8 LX model. Never felt underpowered mind, just underequipped for my tastes now. Lovely car to drive.
Bargain of a lifetime, that was.
The SAAB's in the garage today, they've just called to say they've replaced the EGR valve with a good second hand one. Mine was "shot" apparently. Not surprising after 140k miles.
I'm intrigued to see if it goes any better and if the MPGs improve. If it feels right, it's earned another reprieve.
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I drove one of our rep's Mondeo estates yesterday. 2.0 diesel manual "Zetec" trim I think.
Very nice car, well equipped, comfortable, nippy enough too. Still a "youngster" with only 55,000 on it but so far it has been faultless. He loves it ( well, he says he does )
;-)
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I drove one of our rep's Mondeo estates yesterday.
You complain here about the amount of work you have to do. Perhaps if you hired a few more reps and spread the Mondeos around a bit...?
};---)
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Funny you should say that...
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>> If I could turn back time.................I'd go and get my old Mondeo estate again, from
>> CarGiant. S reg, bought at a year old on 13k miles for £7k. 100,000 miles
>> of trouble free motoring.
>>
Can't you just do the same thing again? OK, I doubt they would have many petrols, but you get my drift.
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They've got one petrol estate. 1.6, 13-plate, 20k, for £11,000
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Blimey! That must be about 60 percent of what the first owner paid, three years ago.
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Mondeo estates do seem to hold their money better than they used to. It used to be possible to get not very second hand ones for a song. I've had several like that. Maybe the penny has finally dropped that they are actually very good.
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>> Mondeo estates do seem to hold their money better than they used to. It used
>> to be possible to get not very second hand ones for a song. I've had
>> several like that. Maybe the penny has finally dropped that they are actually very good.
>>
I think Ford have just slowed production and stopped dumping them at heavy discounts. They were a bit slow to react when user choosers started switching into SUV's and crossovers so I guess all that that excess inventory made its way through the hire fleets and car supermarkets.
Don't appear to see anywhere as many Fords on hire fleets now - get the odd Focus, but cant remember the last time I had a Mondeo
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Ah, now that would make sense Mikey. True enough, a couple I bought were 6 month old ex renters.
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>> Can't you just do the same thing again? OK, I doubt they would have many
>> petrols, but you get my drift.
>>
Sub me the 10k I haven't got and I'll pay you back when I can.
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Might be best just to keep repairing the Saab ( as and when it needs it ) then. Although if I was choosing, or having the choice forced upon me, to work to a limited budget, I'd have no hesitation in buying a 10 year old Mondy so long as it had a sensible service and ownership history and I could establish that it hadn't been crashed.
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Yeah, you're probably right Runfer. Should have bought a Mondeo years back when I got the SAAB. But I'd had one, see? Wanted to sample other pastures.
Hey ho.
The SAAB's upsides are still compelling - to me, anyway. Running more smootherer with the new (old) EGR valve, seems to be doing 5 MPGs more, too.
Next job I shall tackle is the glow plugs. Easy to get to, £32 for a set of 4 from carparts4less. It's just a bit slow and smoky starting from stone cold, expect the glow plugs are old and not as hot as they should be.
Keeps me from being under someone special's feet.
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Third EGR valve now (all second hand though) and still getting errors and limp mode on the motorway under load. Damn. Although, the limp mode clears with a single restart, the CEL goes out after two further restarts and doesn't come on again unless the car is pushed hard, usually uphill.
Mrs A has now issued the enough-is-enough edict and I have been tasked with sourcing an LEC or Volvo V70, with a light coloured interior.
This is getting viewed this afternoon:
www.houndgreencarsales.co.uk/used-cars/mercedes-benz-e-class-3-2-e320-td-avantgarde-5dr-euro-4-hook-201604193121609
I think we've cast an eye over this car here before, I know it's pre-facelift and therefore subject to all kinds of internet horror stores, but with 1 owner, a full MBDSH, "Mercedes Corporate" tags on the number plates front and rear, I think signs are that it's a good 'un, and any issues would have been sorted and all recalls carried out. The radiator issue seems to have been limited to 2004 cars at the latest.
There's an advisory on the last MOT (and from 2014) about slight corrosion to brake pipes, so I'll ask for those to be replaced before committing to it if I like the car in general. Rest of the MOT history is ordinary run of the mill stuff, number plate bulb, bushes.
What a shame the Woking Keyboard Warrior isn't here to rejoice in a massive "told you so". Oh well, I tried my best to keep a car I really like on the road, and learnt a lot in the process. It was only a £2500 quid car in the first place and has lasted several years and tens of thousands of miles, so que sera sera. Cars cost, and in the great scheme this one hasn't been too bad. Especially if I can get the £800 for it which was offered a year ago by the Volvo retailer.
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I like that it's one owner, I also like that it has a full Merc service history, I like that it's recently been serviced and MOTd. I don't like that it's pre- facelift.
It is a good price though. Might look for something younger with more miles if it was me.
But, if you end up with that one, I think you'll like it.
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Yeah I know what you mean, but all used purchases carry risk and this one's cheap enough with a 6 month warranty. Plenty of the pre-facelifts on the road round my way, they can't all be trouble, and there are plenty of internet posts from post-facelift owners with groans and gripes. The history of this car, if genuine, looks reassuring enough. But still, yes, as with all used cars, a risk. I also have a very reputable Merc indie less than a mile from home, and a main dealer just over a mile.
BTW I made a mistake on the SAAB cost, I think it was a £1500 car, not £2500.
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I like the colour combination but you need to be careful what you wish for. In Italy the other week I rode in an LEC taxi the same age as my car (2009). It had a butterscotch interior that extended to the entire dashboard and the steering wheel. Too much; made me homesick for my gloomy black interior.
Didn't look at the price of that E320, but unless it left me lots in the bank for repairs I'd leave it alone; too many potential problems, any of which could cost £2,000 to fix.
Happy to talk LECs offline if you want to ask a mod for my email.
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£5k asking. Where's the contact a MOD link? I'm sure I've seen it before but my faculties are evidently in AC's woodshed.
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Alan - I just sent you WdBs email address (to your Hotmail a/c)
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Cheers smokie - it's Steve though! ;-)
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>> £5k asking. Where's the contact a MOD link? I'm sure I've seen it before but
>> my faculties are evidently in AC's woodshed.
Check that the gearbox fluid was changed at 40,000(?) Should it have another change? I had the same model before my current one, it needed a new box at 155,000.
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>> Third EGR valve now (all second hand though) and still getting errors and limp mode
>> on the motorway under load.
I now it's a bit after the fact, but wasn't it worth getting a new one?
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That was my thinking, sooty, and I found them new for £160 from a reputable SAAB supplier. But, Mrs A put the marital foot down and one must do as one is told occasionally. If I'd got one and an underlying problem persisted, I'd have been mincemeat. So, hey ho.
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>> If I'd got one and an underlying problem persisted, I'd have been mincemeat. So, hey ho.
>>
You are definitely in guaranteed "told you so" territory. :-)
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Whichever way I turn there's a "told you so" from somewhere it seems. Such is life for those who plough their own furrow.
;-)
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Not from me, I would have done the same. I probably wouldn't even give up at this point, although, like you, I might have been told to.
Now we just have to agree whether or not this is a *major* fault....
"I'll give a tenner to a charity of your choice if I'm wrong, i.e. you DO get a major fault in 12 months, and you can give a tenner to any child or cancer charity in thanks if you don't.
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Ah. As we both have a dog in that discussion, perhaps a member with a magic wand would care to adjudicate?
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Not sure how old you are AV, but one word of caution, LECs are a bit of a Hotel California lifetime decision. In that once you've had one, you can check out any time you like but you can never leave...
;-)
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What a perfect description of an LEC!
The XC60 is brilliant and we love it but the V70 was.........Hotel California:)
Pat
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Sorry, Pat: there's only one make of LEC and it's not Volvo (any more.) The V70 simply isn't L enough. Let's hope the new V90 will change that.
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Sorry Al but my £2k 2011 Focus is off the market for the foreseeable future ... I'm enjoying ' not quite' bangernomics again, the previous session being the £950 R reg Mazda 626 which I kept longer than the envisaged few months.
Sold the 330 for £5k to my nephew as you know, and just blown the balance by booking a few overseas hols, some long haul flights and an extended period in Moraira early next year with chums, so could be keeping it a while.
My search for the 328 Touring is temporarily on hold...
Good luck with whatever you decide
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For what you've said you need a car for LL, that Focus sounds perfect.
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Up ahead in the distance, Al saw a shimmering light....
Could it possibly be a Mondeo estate?
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Yes, Mondeos. I went to look at a Mk3 hatch over the weekend. Boot too small, awkward access (regularly need to lift folding bike in to boot, i.e. 5 days a week) plus all children's gear, massive cricket bags and all that.
Try finding a diesel auto Mondeo estate with a reasonable mileage on it. Hen's teeth.
And now Mrs A has her heart set on a 3 pointy star on the driveway.
The only real alarm I can think of is the SBC pump (£2k repair, main dealer only), I'll ask the dealer about that and if no paperwork is provided I'll call a main dealer and see if it's ever been done. If not, I might baulk.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 13 Jun 16 at 13:55
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Didn't think you'd be allowed a Mondeo. I had had to defy the war office on that one. It was tolerated, but never fully approved.
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Remember Runf, we've had a Mondeo before, MKII. She remembers it fondly.
She nearly wanted to buy a flaming Astra on the same forecourt. Nice interior, she said.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 13 Jun 16 at 14:12
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>> And now Mrs A has her heart set on a 3 pointy star on the
>> driveway.
>>
Now you are in guaranteed "I said you should have..." territory as well as "I told you ...." territory
not good :-)
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Commerdriver is right, you may as well just buy that Merc this afternoon. It's pretty much your only option.
;-)
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Alarming news on the Merc. Seller claims FMBDSH, so I called the Mercedes dealer in Reading with the reg number - no record of any service history, last visit to a dealer in 2009. I was too gobsmacked to ask what was done to it in 2009.
Out of bloddy mindedness, I'm going to see the car (it's on my route home, no big deal) and have a look at its service book, perhaps call the dealer which is alleged to have serviced it whilst there. I know I gave them the right reg.
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And I was thinking to myself, "This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"...
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>> Try finding a diesel auto Mondeo estate with a reasonable mileage on it. Hen's teeth.
Does it have to be diesel and auto?
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Sorry to be blunt there, sooty, but, to expand, we need a large family estate car, big boot for luggage, 4 bikes on the roof sometimes, we do 15k miles a year, and the boss don't do manuals (out of bloddy mindedness rather than ability/legality, but the boss is the boss).
So, it has to be diesel auto. To take an example, our other car, the Mazda 6 petrol auto estate is currently telling me it does under 18mpg (16l/100km on the car's computer) - it's only really driven around town but that's not an acceptable figure for 15k miles a year. And yes, it does sound low, but I've had it checked out and there are no problems, it's just very thirsty around town. Long runs, I can do better, but still. It's not great.
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Straw poll of not very many admittedly, but most of our company cars are large or large-ish diesel estates and most people ( they're high mileage drivers y'see ) prefer autos.
We have or have had, Mondeos, Insignias, Vectras, Golfs, BMWs, Passats and of course my Mercs.
For what little it's worth, the Fords, BMWs and the Mercs have been pretty much trouble free despite high miles and hard lives. The Volkswagens and the Vauxhalls, well, they haven't been as reliable.
Doesn't necessarily mean anything of course. Too small a sample really, just my/our experience.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 13 Jun 16 at 15:32
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I don't know what your budget is but Motorpoint have a diesel auto Mondeo estate listed at the moment. The auto is called 'power shift' whatever that is
FWIW my mechanic friend tells me to steer clear of German diesels ( VW, Audi, BMW, MB) without FSH. The mainstay of the service engineers where he works are those above, many just out of warranty. He still swears by Japanese petrol cars.... So why the heck he recommended my Focus diesel I don't know!
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Power shift is Ford's name for twin clutch auto boxes (like VW DSG). Our S-Max has this. In 6 years and 60,000 miles it has been perfectly trouble-free, but the changes aren't as smooth as on my Transporter which has a DSG box (and has also been perfectly trouble-free in 3 years and 45,000 miles).
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It's a bit ironic - the Mondeo is one of those cars that almost everyone praises, yet hardly anybody buys anymore. And that's why there are so few second hand ones around any more, compared with 10 years ago.
The reason, of course, is that everybody is buying SUVs instead! Perhaps Mr. A should divert his attention to a nice used Qashqai or Kuga instead?! Plenty of choice if you want diesel + automatic in that segment...
And isn't this a great opportunity to lock vol. 1 of the Saab 9-5 thread and start vol. 2? My scrolly wheel is getting worn out...
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>> And isn't this a great opportunity to lock vol. 1 of the Saab 9-5 thread
>> and start vol. 2? My scrolly wheel is getting worn out...
My PC goes straight to the first unread post. I don't view any forums on a portable device. Don't they do the same thing?
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> My PC goes straight to the first unread post. I don't view any forums on
>> a portable device. Don't they do the same thing?
>>
No mine doesn't, on either automatically anyway. If there's a new post in red it does. But takes a wee while to load up. The format the forum is in doesn't really work with massive threads like this as there is no page system.
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They do, but first they have to load the entire thread, which can take a little time, anything up to about eight seconds over a 4G connection. Some people here lead tremendously busy lives and don't have that sort of time for hanging around.
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>> Sorry to be blunt there, sooty.
no drama, how about for some more choice an lpg? Might not be a huge amount but iirc you live in a large urban area so possibly not a major drama especially if most journeys are around town
Plus it gives you a few more options when coming to buy.
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From sooty's suggestion.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605023555292
edited - no need to faff about with tinyurl. Just shorten the original autotrader link instead.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 12:48
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Thanks, lads.
LPG is a non starter as we use the channel tunnel, in which LPG is banned.
The C Max is too small, the wife has vetoed BMWs as she wants max waft, and those are too "sporty". I know, I know.
The W210 Merc? Hmm. Probably full of hidden rust, and at 2002 a bit old for my tastes. I want something which will be an all round upgrade on the SAAB. Suspension looks shot to Shrivenham as well.
I've put a deposit on the blue Merc now. Not sure if the advert's been taken down.
Service history checked out, main dealer to 2009 then a Merc indie (they check out as genuine on the interwebs). No faults on the car, everything electric worked, very clean. The fact it was one private owner clinched it, I bet he just traded up when he hit 100k. Wife very happy so that's the main thing. ;-)
I called a local indie for a price on the brake pipes (MOT advisory) - 400 quid. So I asked the seller to do the work if I pay screen price, and he agreed. Only 400 given for the SAAB though, but OK, book is 300-500 trade in. So can't really grumble. I've lost some money on it but overall, for a few years and 30,000 miles, it was bought for £1500 so overall cheap motoring.
Now fingers crossed for no nasty surprises. Could have paid 2-3k more for a facelift LEC, so if I do get a big bill after the 6 month warranty I won't feel too bad.
Big ticket failure is the SBC brake pump. I spoke to the local main dealer this morning, they say £1500 to replace. MB Club forum has several threads on the matter and some indies around who can do it for £500-£1000, so I'm not hugely worried. But it's a used car, and therefore a risk, but I think my eyes are as open as they can be. 50,000,000 German taxi drivers can't be wrong.
Collect on Saturday.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 12:02
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Oh. Forgot to mention. And this will please the OCD gang. 4 nearly new matching Continental tyres on it - Original MB spec. Woot.
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Way hey ! Hope you enjoy it.
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Same from me, Vić. Being pleased with the tyres is nothing to scoff at; they're a sign that the owner didn't regard the car's age as an excuse to skimp on the essentials. I hope someone thinks the same of my LEC when the time comes.
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Yep. Like I say I'm only really concerned with the brake pump thing but there's nothing I can do but cough if it happens. Life.
Just been watching some vids on changing the oil, filter and cabin filter on the 320cdi. Piece of urine. Looks such an easy car to do basic maintenance on, and I wasn't expecting that. I plan to carry on doing oil, filter, air filter and cabin filter myself, local indie can do brake fluid and fuel filter, I never fancy those jobs. There's an on screen menu you can access to show you how much oil is in the sump when you're refilling it, so you can do it really accurately.
:-)
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I hoped you'd buy it, and I really hope you like it and that it is kind to you. But, like I mentioned above, you've probably now committed to a lifetime of LEC ownership. It's not really possible to go back to the "others" without hypnosis or a spell in rehab.
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Good luck Al. Hope you won't need it. I am too chicken to buy any luxobarge of this age and mileage, for fear of big unexpected bills. Possibly irrational of me, but hey.
I'd have gone for something significantly newer / less miles than the Saab.
Very nice car though :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 15 Jun 16 at 10:22
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>> I'd have gone for something significantly newer / less miles than the Saab.
Trouble is there aren't many vehicles fitting my needs and fitting that description at around a £5k price point. I'm not in a legacylad like position where a Focus hatch will do.
Just spoke to seller, car is back from service and brake pipe work - they also say they detected a suspension knock and rectified with an ARB drop link. Jolly spiff.
Collecting midday tomorrow. Must remember to call our insurers today.
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You're going to love it, and I'm really pleased for you.
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Enjoy it Al, its a lovely car.
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Cheers, fellas.
I will put up a new thread about it in due course.
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Lovely indeed. But is it blue? Dealer's pictures look like Flint Grey to me, but I imagine you'll get a build sheet among the papers to say for certain.
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It's definitely blue. But then, I once had a purple Mondeo which, according to Ford's opinion on colours, was also blue.
It looks blue, but perhaps Mercedes call it something else. Nearest description I can find online is "Quartz blue".
Could also be Mauritius blue according to this:
www.automotivetouchup.com/touch-up-paint/mercedes-benz/2005/e-class/
Last edited by: Alanović on Fri 17 Jun 16 at 12:34
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Ah no, I've sussed it - it's Platinum Blue.
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>> Ah no, I've sussed it - it's Platinum Blue.
Sounds like an exclusive pornography site !
Not that I'd know anything about those you understand. :-)
It did look grey in the photos, but I guess it's just the way it came out. Sure it's nice anyway. What's the interior colour?
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Beige leather.
I believe on another motoring forum the name for a large Merc estate is "Nazi Staff Car". I think this one must have been specced by the camp chap viz ze liddle tank.
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And?
C'mon, you've had it for 9 hours, more info needed...
;-)
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I have been for a longish familiarisation drive, and am contemplating life over a bottle of cold white wine. Spanish.
It's a nice car........
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You'll never go back, that's it now, not a bad thing as such, but an inevitability.
;-)
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Does this mean the end of this thread - a sad day for all :-)
I quite like to look and spec of the new E Class saloon. I wonder how much that will be for me next year. Good residuals meant the last E Class was possible if I paid up a bit.
I also like the look of the CLA (sad I know).
But I might need to consider ease of access for my father in law.
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Psssst... Want a diesel Focus cheap?
Excellent ease of access for both a 98 yo & an 88yo
Although truthfully, the 98yo found it far easier to get into the front of the 330 soft top than the Focus. Although the 88yo finds it MUCH easier to get into the rear of the 5 door Focus than the two door 330.
I think the best of both worlds is a 5 door with lowered suspension.....
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SAAB 9-5 - Gearbox fault, decision time - WillDeBeest
