This article raises the question "What is the money raised going to be spent on".
(Daily Mail)
tinyurl.com/popgt25
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 15 Jun 15 at 17:07
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Paying the fines to the EU for dirty air.
Would be the appropriate answer for the DM.
Last edited by: gmac on Mon 15 Jun 15 at 19:11
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Or donate it to NHS London to pay for asthma inhalers?
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If diesel cars pre-EU VI are the main reason for the air pollution and associated health issues why not simply say from 1st Jan. 2020 ALL diesel cars pre-EU VI are banned?
It's four-and-a-half years away if you need access to any city centre surely that would be sufficient notice to find alternative transport.
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I would say just ban cars that are two or more euro generations behind (petrol & diesel) from designated dense/sensitive areas.
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Don't ban anything, just change the emissions test limits to make sure that anything unacceptably polluting doesn't pass.
Doesn't really matter if its 50 years old with no technology at all - it matters only how much it pollutes.
And if it passes the required emissions standards, then surely the age and technology level don't really matter.
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My local MOT garage measured the emissions of a pre WW2 Riley thinking they'd get some big figures and basically for a laugh. It would have passed the pre-cat emission limits!
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>> And if it passes the required emissions standards, then surely the age and technology level
>> don't really matter.
>>
Isn't that where we are today? Politicians don't like that so have taken it upon themselves to add an additional charge, tax, levy...whatever you want too call it.
I regularly follow a P1800 on my commute, lovely looking old wagon but my god, when I'm on my bike I can chew the air I breath. It's not a smoker it just runs very rich in comparison with more modern machinery.
I do not understand why some people want to remove a fuel type from cars but are happy to continue having HGVs and busses running through city centres?
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>are happy to continue having HGVs
As all the distributions centres were broken up and sold for development, largely because they were on railway land, currently there isn't much choice.
We should have a strategy of encouraging out of town distribution/logistics centres and make it damned expensive for anything large to go into the town centre.
And if that adds to the price of goods, then so be it.
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>> "And if that adds to the price of goods, then so be it",
(trumpeted the well-heeled guy living high off the hog on the other side of the planet)
Heh heh heh
:O{
no offenso comrade
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None taken AC; but I would guess I've also been poorer than most, if not all, here.
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>> I would guess I've also been poorer than most, if not all, here.
Wouldn't doubt it for a moment.
Everyone worth their salt's done a bit of starving and scuffling FMR, however grand and poncy they may come on in later life. But I wouldn't dream of getting competitive about this stuff in unknown company.
I suppose it's the wrong time of day for you, but cheers.
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>>I suppose it's the wrong time of day for you, but cheers.
S'never the wrong time of day. But unfortunately I have to take No. 1 to her fencing lessons so I can't drink until after I've finished driving.
Real shame because a kindly soul dropped off 4 bottles of Crabbies Alcoholic Ginger Beer. A bottle of that with ice & a double vodka is a fine way to go.........
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>> Crabbies Alcoholic Ginger Beer. A bottle of that with ice & a double vodka is a fine way to go.........
Sounds OK. Crabbie's used to make something quite alcoholic called green ginger wine. Half and half with whisky it makes a deadly potion called 'whisky mac'.
My first wife's father, a retired colonel working in mufti in some seedy semi-retirement slot connected with military intelligence, fed me a whole succession of those when I first met him in his (also very seedy) Mayfair drinking club, full of cats even more frightening than he was. A memorable hangover too.
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>> Crabbie's used to make something quite alcoholic called green ginger wine. Half and
>> half with whisky it makes a deadly potion called 'whisky mac'.
My Yuletide beverage of choice. Except I usually use Aldi's ginger wine.
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>> Sounds OK. Crabbie's used to make something quite alcoholic called green ginger wine. Half and
>> half with whisky it makes a deadly potion called 'whisky mac'.
The late Reg Dean of Harrow and Wembley YHA group introduced me to that tipple c1981. Crabbie's Ginger Wine is still around and IMHO better than any other option.
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>> Crabbie's Ginger Wine is still around and IMHO better than any other option.
This thread is making me want to buy some. I can already feel the first stirrings of a headache and quite serious acid indigestion... Tsk. This is a dangerous place.
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>> I would say just ban cars that are two or more euro generations behind (petrol
>> & diesel) from designated dense/sensitive areas.
>>
There is a snag with that approach - it will be seen as anti-poor.
Poorer people with older cars won't be able to afford to change their cars, whereas more affluent people with newer cars will be able to still access the restricted areas.
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Any policy that rids the roads of diesel cars is a good thing, in my view. Keep the diesels for commercial vehicles, agricultural machines and dumper trucks.
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>> Any policy that rids the roads of diesel cars is a good thing, in my
>> view.
>>
Any policy that rids the road of petrol cars is a good thing, in my view. They produce smaller more damaging particulates than diesels.
www.transportenvironment.org/press/new-petrol-engines-cause-more-air-pollution-dirty-diesels
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 16 Jun 15 at 20:36
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Ah shaddap all a yez...
Internal combustion engines are polluting.
I was cycling up a steep hill in Plymouth using the bottom gear of my posh Sturmey-Archer four-speed once, when a bus pulled out in front of me and accelerated away, just as I panted in a couple of big breaths. I got pure unmodified fifties diesel smoke, the real thing.
Never forgotten it, and very likely never fully recovered. It was awful.
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If you think diesels are dirty in the UK you need to travel a bit.
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>> air pollution in Europe is estimated to contribute to 406,000 deaths annually.
My ole mum was a Londoner through and through. Born in 1910, so lived through two world wars; The Great Smog of '52 (when I was bjorn) Smoked Players No 10's until her 60's, and STILL lived on this mortal coil for 88 years.
Tis amazing just how resilient the human body is, considering what pollutants we are bombarded with on a daily basis, including from what we shove down our gullets, chemicals used in the home (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_2B_carcinogens) Wi-Fi radiation, electromagnetic fields (EMF's)
But when I last looked, we all seem to be living longer these days.
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>> >> air pollution in Europe is estimated to contribute to 406,000 deaths annually.
>>
They'd have all died at some point anyway.
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>> >>
>> They'd have all died at some point anyway.
>>
That's all right then. If I'm ever up a on a mass murder charge that seems the ideal defence.
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>> That's all right then. If I'm ever up a on a mass murder charge that
>> seems the ideal defence.
>>
I'd at least ask for a discount on the sentence based on the age of the victims. ;)
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I wonder if Dr Shipman tried that one.
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>> I wonder if Dr Shipman tried that one.
In a degrees of seperation sort of sense.....
I'm not remotely offended by this post but my maternal grandmother was possibly a victim of Shipman. He was on duty when she died in Pontefract hospital in April 1972 and he signed her death certificate.
The death was amongst those investigated by Dame Janet Smith in the final phase of her inquiry but without any conclusion as to Shipman's culpability.
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>> my maternal grandmother was possibly a victim of Shipman. He was on duty when she died in Pontefract hospital in April 1972 and he signed her death certificate.
Wow Bromptonaut, what a thing.
I had a good friend who was a mad doctor. He wrote me scripts for legal cannabis when such a thing was possible, but I worried about him a lot especially after his bizarre marriage.
In the end though the only person he topped was himself, left an explicit note in beautiful Jesuit-schooled italic script explaining that he couldn't stand his manic-depressive mood swings any longer. Tuinal and amylobarbitone were the vectors.
I felt guilty because I hadn't been able to help in any way. You can't help being in a collusive relationship with friends of youth though. His (Basque, catholic, unsuitable) widow always blamed me a bit, I couldn't help feeling, for encouraging him, although she's a kindly Christian soul, not malevolent. Actually I expended much energy trying to get him to see sense in one way and another, but there it was. I was his wicked old buddy and that's all there was to it. Men are a much misunderstood gender.
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No one saw GPFs coming ON.
I particularly like "The cost of a filter to eliminate particle emissions from GDI cars is low (around €50), with no loss in fuel efficiency and a big societal benefit." DPF hit diesel cars by around 10%, when cats were added to petrol a similar consumption penalty was seen but now we are led to believe this filter carries no consumption penalty.
Mmmm....excuse my skepticism.
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The free-market Thatcherite view would be that it would then be an incentive to work harder and be less poor, thereby affording to change one's car for a newer one. A view more supported by the rich than the poor I suggest.
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First diesel car parking tax? - ....
