The perils of selling privately
A friend of mine recently bought his daughters 3yo Golf 2.0 Tdi
He assumed that he would be able to sell his '04 307 5dr 1.6 HDi privately, for a fair price. I think he has owned it from new, and to be honest it has not been 100% reliable, but having only covered about 75k miles it is in reasonable condition. I advised him against a major service & belt change and said to build the cost into a reduced price. He decided to have a major service & belt change when it was MOTd a few weeks ago. So far in a month there has been one solitary tyre kicker, no offers, and now it has a flat battery and he cannot get into it, so was calling out the local indie this am. Price was £1400 ono, now £1100 ono, with 11 months MOT.
I don't want to upset him, but I woukd have advertised it on AT before daughter took delivery of her new Golf. It now sits Sorn'd ( I think) and uninsured on his private parking area. Oh dear. I can see him accepting an offer from WBACar in the foreseeable future. I daren't even ask what they offered for it. Probably much less than a grand. So far it's only been advertised in local shops & on Gumtree! Not even ebayed or AT yet. And now uninsured as the insurance was transferred to his new vehicle.
I'm almost tempted to offer £750, sell the 330, and buy something better pre Christmas, as I am only in the UK For 6 weeks Aug/Sept.
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How much??
That's me coming to this fresh from accepting a three-digit trade in for my S60, not much older than the 307 and a hugely superior car. I did wonder about advertising it privately but really couldn't be bottomed. If I had, I might have aimed for £1000-£1200 but don't know how long it would have taken. £750 for the Peugeot sounds about right.
WBAC's first offer for the S60 was £540, incidentally.
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A FB friend of mine in Yorkshire has How much?? as his strapline - along with a Mr How Much cartoon figure in style of Roger Hargreaves.
Seriously though those numbers are nearer dealer forecourt than private sale. The fact that he's not getting even a nibble confirms that (unless he's putting them off at the phone inquiry stage).
WBAC's offer for my similarly aged Berlingo with twice the miles and a more basic engine was £500. Agree with WdeB that £750 is probably right territory. I don't think cards in the newsagent is sufficient exposure to the market. AT or E-bay would be worth a try.
The latter probably best way to establish true value.
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>> That's me coming to this fresh from accepting a three-digit trade in for my S60,
>> not much older than the 307 and a hugely superior car.
Hugely superior doesn't come in to it at that end of the market. People spending less than £1000 on a car want it to be cheap to run and the perception, right or wrong, amongst the great unwashed, is that a 1.6 HDi 307 would be a cheaper car to run than an S60, therefore it commands similar/higher sale price.
IMHO.
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S'pose there's something in that. The Peugeot is still overpriced, though.
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>> >> That's me coming to this fresh from accepting a three-digit trade in for my
>> S60,
>> >> not much older than the 307 and a hugely superior car.
>>
>> Hugely superior doesn't come in to it at that end of the market. People spending
>> less than £1000 on a car want it to be cheap to run and the
>> perception, right or wrong, amongst the great unwashed, is that a 1.6 HDi 307 would
>> be a cheaper car to run than an S60, therefore it commands similar/higher sale price.
>>
>> IMHO.
>>
Indeed, hence I used to buy toy laden old Omegas for much the same asking price as poverty spec. Corsas of similar age.
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>> it is in reasonable condition. I advised him against a major service & belt change
>> and said to build the cost into a reduced price. He decided to have a
>> major service & belt change when it was MOTd a few weeks ago.
On an 11 year old car you don't recover or build in the cost or otherwise of major work. It helps sell the car, but has no influence on the price.
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I always knew he would struggle to sell it privately. And starting off at £1400 was optimistic. To say the least. Personally I would have got it through the MOT with minimal work done and advertised it on AT @ £795 & happily accepted £750.
Money spent on a major service & belt change just before selling was a complete waste of money IMHO
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>> Money spent on a major service & belt change just before selling was a complete
>> waste of money IMHO
At the price point he's getting close to he's barely going to cover the cost of belt change and service.
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Exactly. As per my initial advice.
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It's eleven years - any offer above £500 is worth taking.
Shame he made the decision to buy the Golf - he should have kept the 307 and run it into the ground.
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At 11 years old, worth £700 and in need of a major repair, how much altitude do you think it had left?
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My experience of french cars is the altitude from the top of any cliff will do, happily pushed off with satisfaction.
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Snowman what a philistine you are, tchah!
I've had three Citroëns and a Renault and (apart from the great beauty of two of them) they were all distinctive and interesting in their ways, designed to cruise more or less flat out which I always see as encouraging...
The only near-naff one was a Citroen Bijou, reluctant little brute slow enough to stay out of trouble even on wet cobbles - yes reader, I tried and failed. Well sideways, but by a gyrating country mile. Prudent as always when push came to shove.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 1 Jun 15 at 18:21
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>> Citroen Bijou
That and the Dyane 6 both had the centrifugal clutch, which worked well and was durable, a boon in London traffic. However it did wear out in the end and become noisy and ineffective. Replacement was engine-out job, tiresome and expensive (whole unit only). Neglectful owners could find an engine compartment full off fluffy swarf and a severed drum-rim down there when driver skills were no longer enough to keep the damn thing moving. Always in the Marylebone Rd or King's Cross oneway if I remember rightly, when not in some hideous desert in the centre of Paris.
Cars... dontch'a just love'em?
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 1 Jun 15 at 18:42
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>> I've had three Citroëns and a Renault and (apart from the great beauty of two
>> of them) they were all distinctive and interesting in their ways, designed to cruise more
>> or less flat out which I always see as encouraging...
>>
>> The only near-naff one was a Citroen Bijou, reluctant little brute slow enough to stay
>> out of trouble even on wet cobbles
>>
I too favour French cars (but don't run one as a daily driver ...)
However the Bijou doesn't count as French. It was never going to be a ball of fire - the lightweight 2CV body replaced by a heavy glass-fibre affair to placate the UK market who didn't 'get' the 2CV and thought it was just weird.
Now an old 504 - there's a thought ...
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>> It was never going to be a ball of fire - the lightweight 2CV body replaced by a heavy glass-fibre affair to placate the UK market who didn't 'get' the 2CV and thought it was just weird.
True, it was Slough-assembled for the wives of rich DS buyers, had a DS-style single-spoke steering wheel. And it was heavier and less aerodynamic than a proper 2CV. Nevertheless mine dragged itself around on 425cc of engine, returning 30mpg or less with the accelerator permanently clamped to the floor and revving its gonads off in the gears.
Got it up to 90 once down Cleeve Hill I think. You couldn't blow the engine up however hard you tried. But it was a slow car on most going. I was too impatient for it. It was a bad buy, from a social contact.
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>> My experience of french cars is the altitude from the top of any cliff will
>> do, happily pushed off with satisfaction.
>>
My experience too, last 3 in the family were money pits and unecessarily odd. Especially the Megane, chronically unreliable electrically. It was one after another electrical problem.
I used to dread coming home, 'it's making this strange noise' 'this light has been on' 'it keeps doing this strange thing' *sigh*.
In fairness it was fine mechanically, comfy and didn't rattle. But sheesh the electrics, I think it was about the time Cadbury's became Renault's electrical component supplier...
The vans at work (renault) are the same terrible. Only French vehicle I've had use of that has been ok is the Citroen van at work, although that likes muching light bulbs.
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Bad luck, bad models or abused/neglected examples. French cars are no worse than others overall, indeed France with Britain and Germany and the US of course is a proud pioneer motoring country. I liked all my French cars and one was an all-time classic. I've also owned five Czech cars, one Italian car and one 'British' car, plus short-term odds and sods.
Time for another Czech car perhaps. I dream of a Tatra but can't afford one. Missed the chance back in the day and regretted it ever since.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 1 Jun 15 at 19:36
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AC, have you owned a post-2000 Renault of anything above poverty spec?
I wish it weren't true, I loved my Laguna, but the electrics................new fault every week. It was not an abused nor neglected example. I don't see how lack of servicing can contribute to electrical switch failures in the cabin either.
Wish I could transport the 2.0 dci engine from that Laguna in to my SAAB.......
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We're looking at two Renaults* today for youngest daughter who passed her test recently... she has no idea they are supposed to be unreliable... so they wouldn't be.
*Inc a 1200cc turbo petrol!
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I expected my Mazda 6 to be totally reliable. It has recently thrown up some faults. Needs a new thermostat and the rear seat belt buckle sensing electrics have gorn for a Burton.
Hypothesis disproven.
(Small Renaults with the lowest spec and least electrics would be the most reliable Renaults, I expect.)
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I get plagued with constant suspension problems across all countries of manufacturers. The only odd non routine faults I've come across was with an Audi 80, fuel pump and door lock.
The only French car I had was a 306, usual suspension and exhaust routine stuff albeit very early on (5-6 years old) though it has done 135k miles. It hasn't put me off another Frenchie but I dont want to own another yet. Very happy in the Jap camp now.
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rear seat belt buckle sensing electrics have gorn for a Burton
Had same problem on mine a wire has broke coming up from seat base. Find which of the three seat belt buckles it is, prize it open and solder in a new bit of wire job done.
Last edited by: mazda chris on Tue 2 Jun 15 at 17:50
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>> rear seat belt buckle sensing electrics have gorn for a Burton
>>
>> Had same problem on mine a wire has broke coming up from seat base. Find
>> which of the three seat belt buckles it is, prize it open and solder in
>> a new bit of wire job done.
>>
Cheers, Chris. Is the broken wire in the buckle itself? If so, might be easier for me (I have no soldering tools and have never soldered) to replace the buckle.
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Do people really need a dashboard light to tell them their seat belt buckle is properly closed?
I always find a hard jerk on the belt will show whether it's properly secured and working.
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>> Do people really need a dashboard light to tell them their seat belt buckle is
>> properly closed?
>>
>> I always find a hard jerk on the belt will show whether it's properly secured
>> and working.
>>
Rear seat buckles these are. For children. For the driving adult to see that they're buckled up without having to turn around/ask. Bit of a difference.
I'd rather switch the system off but the manual doesn't let on which fuse to pull.
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I imagine the whole seatbelt reminder system is required to score NCAP points.
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I tend to faff around and check the belts myself when carrying nippers, especially ones strange to me. But our nippers are quite good about putting belts on, with the smallest person in the middle of the back seat with its lapstrap only. That has to be tightened by hand.
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...lapstrap only...
Oh dear. How old is your car? }:---(
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>> Oh dear. How old is your car? }:---(
Ah shadappa you face... I don't expect to crash anyway, and a lapstrap is fine for a small nipper if only to stop it from leaping about.
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Hmm. Well, Rospa agrees with you, up to a point.
www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/vehicles/in-car-safety-and-crashworthiness/seat-belts/#Lap
I'm curious about age because our cars have had three full seatbelts in the back since 1996 - and that car was a model that had been on sale since 1993. Seems extraordinary that a car with MPV-ish styling doesn't have a full set.
(The Midlife Crisis Coupé - henceforth MCC - has only two seatbelts in the back, but then there are only two seats.)
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>> (The Midlife Crisis Coupé - henceforth MCC - has only two seatbelts in the back,
>> but then there are only two seats.)
>>
Do the rear seatbelts still work inside out in the rear?
I could not work out why the buckle was placed next to the side panel which can deform in an accident.
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No, that would obstruct the seats from folding, amongst other things. The buckles are in the centre, either side of the little plastic tray that replaces the third seat.
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>>Do people really need a dashboard light to tell them their seat belt buckle is properly closed?
I don't, for my own belt. But carry children all the time, not just my own, makes it very useful.
And since when did "need" become relevant for what you have in a car?
>>I always find a hard jerk on the belt will show whether it's properly secured and working.
Does the same work for the steering wheel?
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>> Does the same work for the steering wheel?
Indeed it does. All automobile controls respond excellently to violent, irrational treatment. You have to show the jalopy who's boss at the outset. Only then will the thing be cowed and behave properly.
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The best French cars have always been the simplest ones: 2CV, Twingo - even the 504 was tough rather than sophisticated. The big and clever ones were magnificent but, unless you were Le Président (who probably had two) you didn't choose one as reliable daily transport. I'd have loved a CX, a Vel Satis or even an XM but well, you know...
All of which means a basic Clio will probably serve Miss FL well. The trouble with AC's statement is not that it's not true, just that it's not relevant. The rise of Korea as a car maker shows that being a pioneer is neither here nor there to modern buyers; Mesopotamia was an early innovator in writing materials but I won't be popping over to Basra next time I need a notebook.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 2 Jun 15 at 10:52
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>>>a basic Clio will probably serve Miss FL well
Hmmm she aspires to greatness so...
We're looking at newer (well 07ish) Twingo/Clio models often with elec windows, climate, panoramic sunroofs, turbo engines, digital dash etc
We do have backup though in that an on the ball Renault main dealer technician now lives two doors away so I have the heads up on likely faults and he would assist with any difficult issues that arose.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 2 Jun 15 at 11:06
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I hanker after an early Mk 1 Twingo, and there are still loads around in France, but second hand cars hold their price too well over there.
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>> Bad luck, bad models or abused/neglected examples. French cars are no worse than others overall,
I suppose someone must have got a good one.
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I have a French van at the moment, a Renault 4F6, made by the French company Majorette. It sits on my bedroom shelf, I have even re-sprayed it using genuine Renault paint, a left-over can from a Renault 18 we had years ago. I had to drill the rivets out in order to take it apart and then glue it all back together again. It seems to be 100% reliable, it doesn't move unless the cleaner is doing the dusting.
The Renault 18 was a fine car, particularly when the motorist was faced with rubbish like the monstrous Morris Ital.
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>> The Renault 18 was a fine car, particularly when the motorist was faced with rubbish like the monstrous Morris Ital.
Yes. R18 GTX estate went very well, had sporting gear ratios and a very hearty non-turbo 2 litre engine. I loved mine which was also very pretty in silver with brown glass. But it was vandalized and I got too depressed to revive it. Another great mistake in a life littered with them.
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We had the more modest TS with the 1.6 engine. It went well though and did over 100,000 miles before rot finished it off. It was totally reliable as well, a concept that was alien to the Megane MK2 that followed some years later.
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Has a few French cars and never really had any issues.
First was a 405 SRi - liked that one. I bought it for under a grand and never gave me any trouble that I recall
Renault Laguna MK1 - the 1.8 was leisurely but comfortable, but after a couple of years we had a few bills in quick succession so decided to get rid before we were committed
Citroen Picasso - dull, but OK. Only failure was the electronic dash packed up, but replaced under warranty. Dealer told me it was a batch problem rather than a general issue
Citroen C5 - liked it a lot - most comfortable car I've owned, and nothing other than a couple of services in the 3 years I had it. Should have bought it from the lease company
....however, colleague bought a new megane - the one with the folding roof. 4.5 years old and 40K and he's now had enough. His tales of woe would scare me off of buying a renault again
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>> Has a few French cars and never really had any issues.
Had various Citroens and one Peugeot in last 25yrs. While I could have been better off/luckier with different marques I too have not had anything to put me right off.
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504 especially estate was a capacious barge, but Peugeot 404 was an all-time classic, incredibly comfortable and secure at highish speeds, 70-80mph, over corrugated dirt roads. In the right hands of course. Certainly not mine. Takes a lot of practice that stuff.
Great suspension on the 404.
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Peugeot 307 - Going going not gone - WillDeBeest
