|
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but if I trek off to look at a car that I decide to buy and hand over the cash, do I have to find internet access to get new tax and transfer the ownership there and then?
|
Technically, yes. But the Royal Mail aren't that quick.
You'll struggle to tax it if the previous owner is still "officially" recorded as the keeper and taxer of the vehicle.
|
You fill in the paperwork, the seller fills it in, you both send it off and a couple of days later the system catches up.
Best if the seller sells on the last day of the month and you buy on the first day of the following month storing on the sellers driveway for collection then DVLA do not make a months tax on both sides for nothing.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 29 May 15 at 23:39
|
>> You'll struggle to tax it if the previous owner is still "officially" recorded as the
>> keeper and taxer of the vehicle.
>>
Not correct.
You can now tax a vehicle that you have not registered to yourself, which never used to be the case.
The one I did, was shown 'in trade', to be accurate, but I never sent off the log book registering it to my company.
|
Hmmm, looks wide open to abuse.
Take a photo of the VIN and reg. Tax the vehicle and the V5C lands on your mat. Who then has legal title ?
You can usually tax the vehicle by the V5C reference OR the VIN.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 29 May 15 at 23:52
|
>> Hmmm, looks wide open to abuse.
>>
>> Take a photo of the VIN and reg. Tax the vehicle and the V5C lands
>> on your mat. Who then has legal title ?
>> You can usually tax the vehicle by the V5C reference OR the VIN.
>>
Can't work out what you mean.
If you tax a vehicle online now, you don't automatically get a new V5C sent to you, you're not asked about ownership.
Furthermore, in any case, the V5C has the following written in big bold letters right across the top of it "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP It shows who is responsible for registering and taxing the vehicle"
|
Correction, missed the edit: the 16 digit reference number on your vehicle tax renewal letter (V11)
the 11 digit reference number on your log book (V5C)
the 12 digit reference number on your New Keeper Supplement (V5C/2) if you've just bought the vehicle
seems a bit mad that the unique vehicle identifier is no longer used because it was published in public domain (windscreen) because the government of the day couldn't be bothered to sort the problem out at the time. Kicked the can down the road to where we are today.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 29 May 15 at 23:59
|
>>Hmmm, looks wide open to abuse.
Hoards of illegal immigrants running around illicitly taxing other peoples' cars?
|
>> >>Hmmm, looks wide open to abuse.
>>
>> Hoards of illegal immigrants running around illicitly taxing other peoples' cars?
>>
Hmmm... do you write for the Daily Mail ?
I write a correction after 7 minutes and the post above gets picked up 40 minutes after the correction.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 30 May 15 at 01:30
|
No, I'm just very very slow.
And easily confused.
|
>>do I have to find internet access to get new tax
There is also a 24x7 telephone service - 0300 123 4321
|
|
I was just about to say the often dragged up point of "abolish VED and put it on fuel", then remembered that I have a zero rated car, so I won't !
|
|
While I am sure that VED brings in a few quid but it also identifies registered keepers (not owners) otherwise all the parking scam companies would go broke, VED ANPR cameras, speed cameras, and surveillance ANPR cameras would not work to identify the legal road users. The illegals don't care anyway. That is why you won't see VED on fuel unless it is an additional tax.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 30 May 15 at 11:53
|
|
Thanks, all. Does this mean that if I like the car enough to buy it, I can call the DVLC, pay them and drive it home, with the paperwork to follow? Do post offices have any function in this regard any more?
|
You can ring up your insurance company and get instant legal cover, but it won't be instantly registered on the system.
How can you tax the car if no insurance is showing?
Or will it be taxed using the seller's insurance, relying on his cancellation not being instantaneous likewise?
|
>> it won't be instantly registered on the system.
Why not? Last time I tried that it took about 15 minutes.
|
>> >> it won't be instantly registered on the system.
>>
>> Why not? Last time I tried that it took about 15 minutes.
>>
I didn't know that - the last I heard there was a delay of up to a week before new insurance details got registered.
What happens if the seller's insurance has not yet been cancelled? Can the insurance database hold two insurances on the same vehicle?
Likewise the DVLA vehicle licence system - can a car be covered by two road taxes at the same time?
|
> Likewise the DVLA vehicle licence system - can a car be covered by two road
>> taxes at the same time?
>>
Already does, when you sell the car you can't claim the tax back for that month and the new owner has to tax the car for a full month even part way through the month. Seems a bit unfair but there we go. Pretty sure you can tax a car without being the owner.
|
Can the insurance database hold two insurances on the same vehicle?
Yes. It will for mine from tomorrow. My Aviva two-car policy is renewed on 1 June, and I've had the new car since Friday. That is covered by a free seven-day policy from Allianz, fronted by BMW, but Aviva was quite happy for the car to be covered by both policies until Friday. In fact, adding the new car for the last three days of the old year would have incurred an admin charge, whereas this way I just pay the new premium.
|
>>What happens if the seller's insurance has not yet been cancelled? Can the insurance database hold two insurances on the same vehicle?
It is certainly totally legal for there to be more than one insurance in force. (If there is a claim there are set and clear rules).
It certainly also happens in reality; overlapping temporary car insurance, buying/selling delays etc. etc.
As to whether or not the insurance database can show more than one, I don't know for sure, but it seems that it does and must.
|
>> (If there is a claim there are set and clear rules).
Just out of interest, who pays? Or do they split it equally?
|
|
General cover notes used to be commonplace, and I used one the last time I bought a car from Ebay. How does that work now if, say, you're shopping on a Sunday?
|
>>General cover notes used to be commonplace
But not strictly according to the rules.
|
Have I got this right:
I go to look at a car for sale privately. I agree to buy it, hand over the money, and want to drive it home immediately.
I ring up my insurance company and arrange immediate cover.
I ring up DVLA and arrange immediate road licence cover.
I am now fully legal to drive the car ?
BUT.
Until the seller has contacted his insurer, and DVLA have received the paper V5, the car will still be showing as licensed under his name, and still insured by him.
Obviously I need my own insurance in order to drive the car. (If I had done nothing, the CAR would be insured, but I would not be insured to drive it)
But would the car still be taxed even if I did not ring DVLA? Does its tax notionally lapse at the instant of concluding the sale, or when they get the V5 notification?
|
|
Surely, if you tax it, then DVLA receive the change of ownership, how do they know it's the new owner that taxed it, and not the previous, and therefore cancel and refund the money to him?
|
Old system was far better because it was tied to a car. Now it is a specific person (= new owner) using a specific car (more like insurance).
Of course there was no need to introduce this new farcical system - but hang on, DVLA can now double tax a car on month it was sold so there was a need for change from DVLA perspective.
The morons who introduced this must have received their fat bonus because of this marvellous revenue earning scheme.
|
|
On the plus side it's stopped the car dealers from claiming the RFL back whenever someone traded in a car. They'll now have to do something else to earn their holiday money.
|
>> On the plus side it's stopped the car dealers from claiming the RFL back whenever
>> someone traded in a car. They'll now have to do something else to earn their
>> holiday money.
>>
Not always done, when I was at university, one of my friends, whose family owned a Datsun dealership, yes it was a long time ago, had a series of cars over the time there which were all trade ins with RFL left on them to use up until it expired.
|
>> On the plus side it's stopped the car dealers from claiming the RFL back whenever
>> someone traded in a car. They'll now have to do something else to earn their
>> holiday money.
>>
How did they do that? You can only claim back the RFL if the car is registered to you and most dealers avoid registering their stock as it shows up as another registered keeper on the V5.
This thread has thrown up an anomaly for me personally. Until recently I was a car dealer. One of my cars (a BMW 3 series soft top), I fancied driving around in for a while ..but... didn't want to register it and have another keeper showing... so I tried taxing it without sending off the V5 with a change of ownership... and it worked.
Trouble is, now that I've sold it, I haven't received the refund.... because DVLA will accept payment electronically, but send refunds via the post in the form of a cheque... to the keeper.
So I have no idea if a cheque has gone to the previous keeper.. or.. it's all in limbo, so I'm going to have to psyche myself up for a press 1 for this and 2 for that and lose 20 mins of my life on the phone to DVLA.
|
>> press 1 for this and 2 for that and lose 20 mins of my life on the phone to DVLA.
Or try to get the DVLA refund back from the next keeper if he's managed to cash it and is lying low and being hard to find...
|
>> How did they do that?
No idea, but quite a lot of dealers managed it. I suspect googling for the information won't be any good as all you'll find is the current method of obtaining a refund.
|
Worth knowing, I guess...
Q. Can car dealers continue to tax vehicles for customers on their behalf?
A. Yes, by using V5C/2, either online at www.gov.uk/tax-disc using the V5C/2 of the V5C, by telephone on 0300 123 4321, or at a PO branch that deals with vehicle tax.
www.am-online.com/news/2014/10/8/road-tax-changes---guidance-for-dealers/37049/
|
"or at a PO branch that deals with vehicle tax."
So you can still do the deed at a PO, assuming you have an insurance certificate..?
|
>> So you can still do the deed at a PO, assuming you have an insurance
>> certificate..?
>>
Do POs still use paper certificates - I thought they used the insurance database now? Or can they use either?
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Tue 2 Jun 15 at 09:03
|
>> Q. Can car dealers continue to tax vehicles for customers on their behalf?
Yep, mine did when I bought the Astra. They filled in my details on the V5C on my behalf and then handed it over at the PO when they applied for the RFL.
|
>> No idea, but quite a lot of dealers managed it. I suspect googling for the
>> information won't be any good as all you'll find is the current method of obtaining
>> a refund.
I suspect from the link to AMonline (above) that the practice of dealers cashing in discs on traded cars was outlawed after 2009.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 2 Jun 15 at 09:15
|
>> Surely, if you tax it, then DVLA receive the change of ownership, how do they
>> know it's the new owner that taxed it, and not the previous, and therefore cancel
>> and refund the money to him?
>>
Is the secret in the tear-off V5 slip that the seller gives you? Perhaps if you use that to tax the car then it recognises "new-owner RFL" as opposed to "old-owner RFL", even though both will be in force until they receive the paperwork from the seller?
|
|
The dealer advised me to tax my new car the night before I collected it, but I couldn't find a way to do it online without either the V5C or the tear-off slip.
|
>> The dealer advised me to tax my new car the night before I collected it,
>> but I couldn't find a way to do it online without either the V5C or
>> the tear-off slip.
>>
He should have given you the document ref no on the V5C/2 (little green tear off slip given to new owners).
For some reason the doc ref no. on the main V5C is an 11 digit number, yet on the V5C/2 it is a 12 digit number.... and you need the 12 digit number.
|
I had a feeling that this new procedure was not going to work for me, and I was right.
I bought another car yesterday, after driving 150 miles to view it. I sorted out instant insurance by phone, and then tried to tax it online at the seller's place. It wouldn't accept either the V5 or the V5C 12 or 11 digit numbers, insisting the numbers were invalid.
The DVLA phone service said the same.
The seller said this often happens. He advised taxing at a Post Office, and he let me take the full V5 that he is meant to send off, saying sometimes they need that at the PO.
This proved to be correct. The V5C didn't work, even at the PO, but the other worked properly and was accepted.
So that is now all legal.
Then to SORN my old car. Again, the online service rejected the number, as did the phone-line. So there is nothing for it but to print off the paper form and put it in the post.
|
"insisting the numbers were invalid."
Even though you were reading them from their document! How do they explain that..?
|
>> Even though you were reading them from their document! How do they explain that..?
Some issue with format? Check digits?
It needs somebody with patience/persistence to report the issue and follow it through.
Or it could have been a dim/ill trained member of staff. Got a similar one yesterday at Student Finance England. Couldn't grasp the difference between untaxed interest and interest taxed at source and gave me three different answers as to how to enter and prove bank interest for purpose of The Lad's loan/grant.
|
I seem to have been able to tax the Suzuki without any insurance in force.
My VED is due for renewal at midnight on 30th June. But my insurance runs out on the 29th. I renewed the VED on-line a couple of days ago without any problems. The DVLA haven't got a clue as to whether I'm going to re-insure it or not at this stage. Perhaps they check later and invalidate the VED if you haven't insured.
Of course, an ANPR will get you if you don't insure and I'm just following on with the same insurers as the new quote was only a few notes more than last year...Same for the Note. Saves all that messing about re-entering details and NCB proof, etc. I'll make sure I check ASKMID on the 30th, though but.
|
"even though both will be in force until they receive the paperwork from the seller?"
In which case, you might just as well take the slip and drive home (as long as you're insured) and sort it out from there. Or am I missing something..?
|
>> "even though both will be in force until they receive the paperwork from the seller?"
>>
>>
I believe that is true of a private seller, but there is a supposedly fast-track system for dealers which notifies DVLA immediately.
I bought from a dealer. He said he is having a lot of trouble with purchasers trying to buy instant tax online or by phone. He oftens runs clients to the nearest PO and then uses the V5 registration document for them.
The PO seem to be on a different system which works immediately and doesn't have the glitches of the ordinary public one.
I also read on a forum for motor dealers that even though the online tax-checker can take up to 5 days before it registers, the system the police etc access is updated the moment you buy the tax at the PO.
Lots of people, like me, have an anxious 5 days driving a car that is the tax-checker says is untaxed even though it is isn't. Someone on the forum said the trade body was pressing the DVLA to sort this out.
|
I just had occasion to use this - you put in the registration and make and up pops the tax and MOT status.
www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
Interesting line below the result that says:
"This vehicle can be taxed at a Post Office branch that deals with vehicle tax without the V5C registration certificate."*
It looks like PO's will be a part of the system for a while yet!
*But not always. I was looking up a vehicle whose tax (and owner) had expired...
Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Wed 24 Jun 15 at 14:52
|
But there is a delay of up to 5 days before the details get updated on the public viewer.
The PO is on the realtime system, which apparently gets updated within minutes of changes happening. But you can then have an anxious few days wondering whether your new car is actually taxed or not, because all you have as evidence is some very small writing on a PO receipt.
|
"all you have as evidence is some very small writing on a PO receipt."
Which wouldn't cut much ice with a burly traffic cop, I'm guessing!
However, one useful effect of the on-line system (which will be fine until a major IT cockup and/or power failure occurs) is that you can now pay monthly, thus minimising the refund requirements when you sell the vehicle. It would be interesting to know how that will affect DVLA cashflow - they must have had a nice little cache of 'payments on account' that will gradually dissolve...
|
Ownership + VED with private sale - ....
