So I've had the Insignia for 2.5 years, which means that under the finance agreement it's now possible to throw it away and get another.
So, shortlist:
Absolutely no idea (except possibly the Volvo V60 R-design), age up to 2 years.
Requirements:
* Diesel
* Automatic (ideally DSG)
* Big enough to take two bikes
* Fast (ish)
* Comfortable for long journeys
* Sat nav
* DAB
* Radar cruise / city braking
* GSOH etc.
Max price £25-30k. Thoughts?
Not on the list:
* Any BMW (I swore to BMW head office I'd never buy another one because of their crap customer service, and I shall stick to that promise).
* Any Mercedes (can't stand the things).
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"Ordinary" radar cruise which cuts off below about 20mph (and limiting your model choice very quickly) or "proper" (and joyous) radar cruise that goes right down to zero mph and up again (limiting your choice to about four manufacturers, two of which you have dismissed)?
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Some more questions, if I may:
Why get rid at all? (Or you simply fancy a change?)
If its more cost effective to change for the finance deal you have, are you restricted to certain makers or dealer chains?
Why DSG in preference for an automatic. I won't try to talk you into a torque converter or CVT if you expressly don't want one...
Edit: Do I understand correctly it doesn't have to be an estate so long as it has enough space for bikes etc?
Last edited by: Gromit on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 16:47
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"proper" (and joyous) radar cruise that goes right down to zero mph and up again (limiting your choice to about four manufacturers, two of which you have dismissed)?
Want this one. ^^ Ideally something that can do the steering bit too in traffic jams but suspect I'm asking a bit much of technology at this point.
Why a new car? Fancy a change. The Insignia has suffered on the A41 and rattles somewhat inside.
Also, want to go back to an auto. Prefer a DSG just on the basis that they're snappier up to speed than traditional auto. Feels wasteful swirling oil around to transfer power, and my dad's Skoda Superb DSG is like the proverbial off a shovel now it's been remapped and still does 60+ mpg on the motorway.
Edit 3: Doesn't have to be an estate, but I drove past a V40 the other day and it looks dinky. And expensive.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 16:59
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Audi seems to be putting a lot of money into subsidizing lease deals on the A6. Latest engines are amazingly economical, officially at least. No shortage of bike space either.
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Proper radar cruise?
Volvo.
Vw
Seat if lucky and currently available.
Mercedes distronic plus
BMW system
I think that's your lot.
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Doesn't meet the diesel requirement (is that simply a driving preference?), but at 25 to 30 I'd seriously be looking at the Lexus RX 450h.
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>> So I've had the Insignia for 2.5 years, which means that under the finance agreement
>> it's now possible to throw it away and get another.
>>
>> So, shortlist:
>>
>> Absolutely no idea (except possibly the Volvo V60 R-design), age up to 2 years.
>>
Coming out of an Insignia I think you would hate the V60 R-design. I was happy to hand mine back to the lease company.
Its not a bad car, but the R-design spec had such a hard ride it was just unpleasant. It got to a point where I would plan my routes around avoiding speed humps and certain roads
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You get to Mercedes eventually FF. it's just not your time yet. Think of it as a bit like a game of Mornington Crescent.
;-)
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If you compromised on the bells/whistles a Berlingo would do the job on half your budget.........
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That would only really work if he's decided the Insignia wasn't quite uncool enough already Bromp !
;-)
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My ex didn't really like hers. She preferred her Passat, despite it leaving her stranded twice. She now has a CC ( or did the last time I saw her) and quite likes that.
She still hankers after an AM, any model will do, so she wasn't all bad!
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The Volvo V60 with the new D4 engine but as an SE rather than R-Design is well worth a look. There are good deals available slashing thousands off the high-looking list price.
You'd need to check that you can get the bikes in (unless you're happy with a bike rack): if they won't, they will in an Octavia estate which is better value than a similarly-engine (2.0 TDI) Passat and almost as roomy.
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You can have my 8 year old 125k mile Lancer. OK its got none of the stuff you mentioned, but its got to be a step up from the Insignia?
It has the added bonus that you can see out of the back of the thing. That will be a novelty for you.
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My ex, 5'3'' drove 110k miles in 3 years in her Insignia. She never reversed into anything. I suppose if you are used to driving a square box with a picture window at the rear then slightly reduced rear viz may take a week or two to get used to. And I must say, although I thought the interior of her Insignia slightly lower quality than her Passat, it never let her down. And over the three years she had it I think it averaged about 62mpg, which I found amazing for a relatively large car. Admittedly, most of her mileage was on motorways, but she didn't hang around.
As a point of interest I wonder what Runfers LEC average mpg is.. I think he has an E220?
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His is an E250 and I think he gets well into the 40s. Mine is the previous-generation E220 (same 5-speed auto and basic engine but without the latest ancillaries that improve efficiency) and averages 37.
People on the Mercedes forums claim mid-40s averages for cars like mine but I honestly don't know how, short of not driving where I do. I suspect stop-start alone would add 2mpg to my long-term average.
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It is a 250 with a 5 speed auto. On a short run ( as in anything less than 10 miles ) it isn't very frugal at all and struggles to get a 4 in the number. On a long run it regularly gets over 50 mpg. According to the trip thing which I never re-set it averages 46 and based on the fuel calculations I need to do for expenses purposes that seems about right.
Interestingly ( or maybe not ) the saloon renter I had which was a 220 with a 7 speed box and stop start wasn't any more economical than mine and was noticeably less lively.
On the other hand my wife's Qashqai ( petrol manual 1.6 ) seems to get 40 mpg whether it goes 3 miles to the gym or 200 miles to visit her friends.
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>> I suspect stop-start alone would add 2mpg to my long-term average.
>>
I wouldn't bank on it. My wife had two C4 Grand Picasso 1.6HDi EGS cars back to back, the second had stop/start. First car averaged 37mpg over three years and 45,000kms, the second car managed...37mpg over three years and 41,000kms. That was mainly town and urban driving, where I'd expect stop/start to improve consumption, with few longer motorway trips.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 24 Apr 15 at 11:37
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>> picture window at the rear then slightly reduced rear viz
Slightly reduced? I have seen keyhole surgeons refuse to use them!
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>> It has the added bonus that you can see out of the back of the thing.
*BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEEEEEP-BEEEEEEEEEP-THUMP*
"And forwards a bit".
Who needs to see out the back?
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Points 2 and 3 in your list:
* Automatic (ideally DSG)
* Big enough to take two bikes
probably rule out a V60 or V40.
The DSG from Volvo needs an oil change every 3 years but the mileage would be a concern. 3 years in a Volvo service schedule is 54,000 miles, 3 years in a Ford is 37,500. Will that powershift box really go an extra service interval between oil changes ?
The 8 speed box on the new D4 would be where I would go.
The V60 is not a big estate car, you might need a towbar and bike rack or roof bars and bike holders for more than one bike. The boot floor is very shallow especially if you opt for a space saver spare wheel.
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Logical step up from the slightly small V60 is the V70. I was quite dismissive of the idea when looking to replace my 5-series estate. Then I tried one.
OK, it's an old design, but modern and smart interior and really well kitted out as standard with a superb satnav.
The new D4 engine is excellent and the new 8-speed geartronic gearbox is silky-smooth and you can hardly feel it change gear. For £150 you can get flappy paddles to, but I have not really needed / wanted to use them, despite ticking the option.
Decent performance, great Co2, and on my less than ideal economy commute I get an average of 46mpg, and on a decent long drive 50+ is easily achievable - stunning for a big auto.
So quiet inside at any speed to, and superb ride comfort.
Huge discounts available from brokers so a top of the range D4 SE Lux would be down from over £36k to about £27 / £28k. Drive the deal don't seem to offer deals on the D4 but Broadspeed do, and I guess there will be others.
I haggled my local dealer down to meet the Drive the Deal price last year, but a colleague who has just taken delivery of one himself (and is really impressed with the car) used DtD as they could not get a dealer to match it.
You will never win a style award with it, but the last facelift does it some favours, and I have proven to be very impressed in my first 15,000 miles / 8 months or so.
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He's going to want the driver's support pack as well, for the radar cruise - and that, unlike VW, doesn't come as standard or even for a nominal sum. List is nearly £1600. And another £500 if you want heated seats.
Trouble is, "driver's support pack" variants are therefore reasonably rare secondhand, which limits the field further.
I was lucky enough to find the thing on mine, but it really makes the car.
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>> Leon test drive booked.
Which model? 5-door or ST? 184PS diesel FR or Cupra? :-)
They're nice cars and I liked the FR I tried and it only had 150PS I think. The Golf GTD with the 184PS engine was better IMO. But I preferred the Audi A3 saloon. But an A3 with active cruise control, auto-city brake extra is a lot more expensive than a Leon.
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184 ST DSG. Though the dealer is having to source from somewhere else.
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XC60, if FF wants radar cruise, bike space inside and isn't tied to an estate?
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2nd hand Jag XF Sportbrake
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Cupra 280 estate would be my choice. It comes with the trick front diff, based on the same MBQ ? Chassis as VW, and that rdiff is only included on the Golf GTI if you pay extra for the Performance Pack.
Somewhere on ewe tube is a track test comparing the Golf R with the Cupra 280. I think the latter won. I priced one up on DTD, and I have an extensive range of baseball caps to wear whilst driving the aforementioned.
Hope you enjoy the test drive. I daren't, just in case the practicality of the estate, combined with the performance of the Cupra 280, proves too tempting!
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I have to say the Volvo's Radar/City Guard is faultless,brilliant in queues. I've grown surprisingly attached to it. The auto box is the one thing I don't really get on with. It is nicely made. Better put together than my last two Beemers I would wager. The engine is an absolute peach, the seats peerless, easy to find the right adjustment, even better with memory seats ! Would I buy another...dunno. They've stopped making the 5 cylinder petrol engine...:-(.....I may consider a V60 Polestar next...
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 24 Apr 15 at 19:41
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Went out in a Leon today (only the 154hp model available to drive).
First impressions:
Felt a bit cramped but I guess it would in comparison to Insignia. Very spritely from a standing start, good radio, sat nav a bit annoying but can live with her, I mean, it. Poverty spec version a bit crap, to be honest, but the FR model with leather is nice. Even that has hard plasticcy bits in it though.
After driving it, struck me as quite expensive for the money. I suppose you are paying for VAG bits, DSG, LED headlights etc but still came to more than I spent on the Insignia. Having said that, the 4x4 184hp DSG is great fun to drive but I can't see any plausible reason for buying 4x4.
Also went out in a Mazda 6 (the new 2015). Technically an incredibly impressive car for the money (not least 'cos it's 0% PCP with no deposit), loads of toys, heads up display, cavernous interior, looks brilliant, comfortable.
But it's ENORMOUS (<-- mods, please make giant text). Even bigger than the Insignia, and I think the Seat has the better engine and gearbox.
Tomorrow: the Volvo. Shall report back.
(Seat dealer refused to discuss price until I'd test driven the Volvo and decided which I wanted. Apparently hacked off with people test driving his cars and buying from Drive The Deal. Chatted about this for some time, basically told him that if he came close-ish to the DTD price I'd buy from him. DTD is over £6000 cheaper than list. I'm sceptical about his ability to reduce price and suspect it may actually lead to another car for me.)
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 15:08
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"Seat dealer refused to discuss price until I'd test driven the Volvo and decided which I wanted"
Doesn't seem like a good tatic to win business, does it? Isn't the price - or the value for money, really - a key factor in whether you'll want the Seat or the Volvo, after all?
In contrast, had the Legacy in to my dealer to check brake lines for a recall I got a letter about during last week. Took a very casual look at the new Forester automatic, and made it clear I was just being nosey while waiting for my own car, not actively looking to buy.
That didn't stop him quoting prices, or floating the idea of buying one ex-demo in a few months' time. And no hush-hush, top secret, I can't tell you in case you buy elsewhere about it...
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>> "Seat dealer refused to discuss price until I'd test driven the Volvo and decided which
>> I wanted"
>>
>> Doesn't seem like a good tatic to win business, does it? Isn't the price -
>> or the value for money, really - a key factor in whether you'll want the
>> Seat or the Volvo, after all?
I said exactly this to the salesman, he relayed it to the manager, who came out and chatted with me for about 10 minutes.
The impression I got was that he was deeply frustrated by people trying the cars at his dealership and then buying via a broker online - something that many people do for pretty much everything nowadays and one of the reasons for the death of the high street.
I can't say I agreed with his approach but he was at least honest about it, saying that hard negotiation on prices was really more appropriate once I'd test driven a selection of cars and decided which I preferred.
It probably is going to be the Leon for me - the V60 is b***** expensive and would need close to a 20% discount on list for me to consider it a sensible purchase. Having said that, MY16 becomes available from build week 22 this year and the options list is in flux at the moment because of that, so pricing is difficult anyway.
I hate negotiating in car dealerships.
Edit:
>> It probably is going to be the Leon for me
Hope he doesn't read this forum.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 17:07
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>> >> It probably is going to be the Leon for me
>>
>> Hope he doesn't read this forum.
>>
Don't worry, he will point you out to the service manager when you first take your new DTD car to be serviced / be repaired, whether or not he read this forum!
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>>It probably is going to be the Leon for me - the V60 is b***** expensive and would need close to a 20% discount on list for me to consider it a sensible purchase
A quick nosey at DTD.com shows a V60 D4 (190) auto in R-Design/Satnav spec retails at £34k, and is £25.5k after discount. A fair bit over 20% off.
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>> LED headlights
They are still free upgrades on the Leon. Comes with the DAB and sat nav. Perhaps not on the base spec but are on the FR and probably the SE too.
The new improved Mazda 6 is better. The model I tried felt cheap. And yes it's big. Not much bigger than my Passat CC was but compared to what I have now it is. And when you had it for a few days you realised where corners were cut. I had quite a lit.
The Leon FR I tried was okay but did feel a bit cheap to me. I much preferred the inside of the A3. And I preferred the look of the A3 saloon. Which is a tiny bit wider and has a bit longer wheelbase than the A3 Sportback I think.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 17:52
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>> Went out in a Leon today (only the 154hp model available to drive).
>>
>> First impressions: ...
>> After driving it, struck me as quite expensive for the money. I suppose you are
>> paying for VAG bits, DSG, LED headlights etc but still came to more than I
>> spent on the Insignia. Having said that, the 4x4 184hp DSG is great fun to
>> drive but I can't see any plausible reason for buying 4x4.
>>
>> (Seat dealer refused to discuss price until I'd test driven the Volvo and decided which
>> I wanted. Apparently hacked off with people test driving his cars and buying from Drive
>> The Deal. Chatted about this for some time, basically told him that if he came
>> close-ish to the DTD price I'd buy from him. DTD is over £6000 cheaper than
>> list. I'm sceptical about his ability to reduce price and suspect it may actually lead
>> to another car for me.)
>>
That is the problem with SEAT at the moment, price. We looked at the Leon tourer in both standard and jacked up off-roader format at the turn of the year. The standard car was 33% more expensive than the Toyota Auris TS before I got >20% off the Toyota. Not saying Toyota is for you and the Auris is about to have a facelift. SEAT were not even at the races in terms of price. In Germany they are pitching directly at VW levels which is madness.
Recently I got a leaflet through for an Audi A3 e-tron I think it was, the new plug-in hybrid anyway. It was >150€/month lease cheaper than what we'd be quoted for a mid-spec 1.6 diesel Leon tourer.
Last edited by: gmac on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 20:28
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The Mazda dealer is tracking down some info on their car for me (wasn't able to test drive, they only had one and it was trapped behind about six other cars inside the showroom) - trying to figure out if the autobox is dual-clutch or 19th century slushy technology, and whether the ACC can motor the car along in traffic jams.
We shall see. The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car. Compared the measurements this evening and it's - astonishingly - slightly smaller than the Insignia.
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If you mean "down to zero and back cruise", Fursty, the (very short) list of such enabled cars can be seen here. Mazda isn't on it.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_cruise_control_system
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 21:07
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>>"down to zero and back cruise",
I think that's what the S Class I had a drive of used. It wasn't a Mercedes system, it was a test system added by a 3rd party.
It *totally* caught me out in a traffic jam when the car started moving as the car in front did; I would much rather not have it. Quite dangerous for the terminally slow_on_the_uptake in early hours (e.g. me) I think.
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The adaptive cruise control on an Audi A3 S-Tronic works from 0 mph to 100 mph. For manual cars it starts at 20mph. Add the driver assistance pack and its goes up to 124mph. Even does stop/go on S-Tronic cars.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 22:53
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>> We shall see. The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car. Compared the measurements this evening
>> and it's - astonishingly - slightly smaller than the Insignia.
Weird how some cars do that. The Citroen BX felt bigger than a Ford Sierra but was actually halfway between an Escort and a Sierra in size. Never compared the Xantia to a Mondeo as I knew which I wanted.
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>> >> We shall see. The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car. Compared the measurements this
>> evening
>> >> and it's - astonishingly - slightly smaller than the Insignia.
>>
>> Weird how some cars do that. The Citroen BX felt bigger than a Ford Sierra
>> but was actually halfway between an Escort and a Sierra in size. Never compared the
>> Xantia to a Mondeo as I knew which I wanted.
The Mazda looks bulky, a little flabby round the midriff. Personally I think its lost its good looks over the iterations
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I think the Mazda 3 & 6 could be the best looking mass produced cars at the moment.
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>> The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car.
>> The Mazda looks bulky, a little flabby round the midriff. Personally I think its lost
>> its good looks over the iterations
I think the new Mazda6 is one of the better looking cars around - particularly the tourer.
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>> trying to figure out if the autobox is dual-clutch or 19th century slushy technology, and
>> whether the ACC can motor the car along in traffic jams.
Definitely not DSG. Pretty sure it's a torque converter. But they have something different and brand it as one of the Skyactive technologies. Claim to be best of all worlds.
www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-drive/
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 27 Apr 15 at 21:16
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>>> The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car
That's been my opinion since it was launched. I was close to getting another lease car in 2012 before I went car feral and the Mazda 6 Tourer was on my shortlist.
At the time of its launch I remember linking to this advert... you need to watch it in HD on a large monitor with a good sound system. Nice car, great location, The Kinks and edgy carbon fiber cello...very cinematic.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM8TpvDUnqE
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 28 Apr 15 at 13:53
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The Volvo V60 looks expensive apart from the Business Edition. However dealers apparently have a lot of leeway to contribute with the SE and above, so as to bring the price down to not much more than the Business Edition, especially if you buy on finance.
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Right - new car ordered, deposit placed, can't back down now.
It's a VOLVO! Never thought I'd buy one, especially after I got run over by one when I was 18.
Exact model is the "Volvo V60 R-Design Lux Nav D4 Geartronic". Test drove it and it's leagues ahead of the Leon. It's in plain red; they've dropped Rebel Blue for MY16 which sucks.
Options...
* Driver Support Pack (so all the cruise / anti-crash / anti-crush-pedestrian stuff etc)
* Pimped xenon lights and high beam assist etc
* Keyless go
* Harmon Kardon sound pack
* Winter pack
* Tank of fuel
In the end got it for £32,500, beaten down from list of £41k. 20%, which I can live with. Delivery in July.
R-Design obviously firmer ride but felt far more planted when booting it around the various roundabouts of Milton Keynes.
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>> Exact model is the "Volvo V60 R-Design Lux Nav D4 Geartronic".
Catchy! Almost as good as some of the Mercedes full titles!
Sounds nice though. Wouldn't mind the V60 myself
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See you over at
www.volvoforums.org.uk/
in five then. :)
edit: if you didn't spec the rear camera, and you think you might want it, do it now. For a while it was twice the price to retrofit (ie about £750) and now, I think, it can't be retrofitted at all - factory only.
If you don't want it, never mind...
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 28 Apr 15 at 14:58
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>> See you over at
>>
>> www.volvoforums.org.uk/
>>
>> in five then. :)
Bets thats a riveting and lively forum,
"National Trust Property of the week"
"Best picnic rug"
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A typical National Trust picnicker lives in Surrey and drives a Japanese saloon or estate. :)
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At times the Volvo forums are remarkably adult and grown up compared to this one:)
Pat
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>> At times the Volvo forums are remarkably adult and grown up compared to this one:)
= Dee yew double ell
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>> Bets thats a riveting and lively forum,
>>
>> "National Trust Property of the week"
>>
>> "Best picnic rug"
Hmm. Well I had a reply to one of my tweets from the National Trust this very morning, and we HAVE just seen a bargain picnic blanket for the summer in John Lewis, so...
Now I simply must pop out to Marks and replace my mustard cords on my way to the Farmer's Market.
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>> >> See you over at
>> >>
>> >> www.volvoforums.org.uk/
>> >>
>> >> in five then. :)
>>
>> Bets thats a riveting and lively forum,
>>
>> "National Trust Property of the week"
>>
>> "Best picnic rug"
>>
>>
>>
Have already ordered beige trousers and matching jumper.
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>> Have already ordered beige trousers and matching jumper.
*Glances down nervously*
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Hmm... so it's standard automatic, not dual-clutch, which is not what the salesman said. Oh well, certainly seemed quick enough off the mark.
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What's a "Winter Pack" ? Is it like an extra thick Volvo branded travelling rug or something and a wee bespoke flask for the Bovril ?
;-)
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Heated front windscreen, heated seats etc. Have had my last winter of chiselling ice off the windscreen on a frozen morning at 4am.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Tue 28 Apr 15 at 18:53
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Could just have got an extra thick cardigan to wear while doing it.
;-)
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>> Hmm... so it's standard automatic, not dual-clutch, which is not what the salesman said. Oh
>> well, certainly seemed quick enough off the mark.
>>
The only important thing is that you are happy with it.
I think that Volvo used to offer a DSG transmission when they were joined with Ford.
According to Wikipedia (usual caveats apply)
"Geartronic is Volvo Cars' name for its manumatic transmission, similar to Porsche's Tiptronic. It is available in 5 and 6 speed models, and is controlled by a microprocessor. The microprocessor automatically shifts to the next gear if a forgetful user in manual mode red lines the engine. Manual shifting is allowed with the gear stick in the manual mode. The gear stick can also be used just like any other automatic gearbox, where the transmission will shift automatically.
Geartronic is offered on Volvo vehicles with engine displacements of 2.0 liters or greater. Geartronic transmissions are manufactured in Japan by Aisin AW."
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Well done, Fursty, and welcome to the Volvo Section.
Will be interested in your thoughts on the D4-auto-R Design combination, as I'm wondering about that in a V40 (really didn't like the Cross Country model I tested) or even, just possibly, a new S60. My thought is that the R seats are noticeably better shaped, enough to offset any additional firmness in the suspension. I must remind my dealer that he promised to get me a demo in one.
But £41,000 is an astonishing price for a medium-sized car. I know you didn't pay it, but who are they kidding? A Golf R is thousands less than that, and will be here soon as an estate.
Hope you enjoy it, and can live with yourself for having had a Vauxhall and let it go.
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Hope you enjoy FF. I liked the overall package, and it did feel very secure/planted, but I just couldn't get used to the firm ride. I wonder if the may have retuned the setup over the years since launch
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Thanks. Not particularly fussed about the gearbox, though may lean on the dealer when it comes time to collect in the hope of a free paint protection pack or similar. Further research suggests it's the same 8-speed as fitted to the A6 and various BMWs so has a good reputation.
My impression of the suspension is that if you hit a speed bump or pothole you'll know about it, but ultimately that's probably due more to the 18 inch wheels and rubber bands strapped to them than the suspension.
If you want brutally hard suspension, my old 1-series with the m-sport pack could cripple you if you went over a collapsed bit of road on the motorway, let alone a speed bump.
The seats are sublimely comfortable, especially in the faux-suede / leather combination. I didn't want to get out.
Price is high, but you can spec a Leon to £33k (and more) and there's absolutely no comparison between the two. The Leon is antiquated in comparison. Also, the residual values are irritatingly high - it turned out to be cheaper to buy a new one on PCP than to borrow the money from the bank for a used one. Even 14-reg with 10,000 miles on is £23k upwards on Autotrader without the options I picked.
Though I REALLY wanted a blue one, but Volvo for reasons best known to themselves have decided this year not to offer it on the R-Design. I asked the dealer if they could force it through, but they said they've tried twice and Volvo are rejecting the build. Such is life. So it's red instead.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Tue 28 Apr 15 at 22:27
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Can you spec the 4-C chassis on the R Design? Gives you some buttons to alter the ride quality at will and is apparently very successful. Not sure without checking whether the latest S60 has it as an option or whether it's only the X60.
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>>Can you spec the 4-C chassis on the R Design?
Sadly not. Mind you, it felt no firmer than the Insignia and drove that in "Tour" mode pretty much permanently. "Sports" was OK for a quick getaway, but the leggy gearing meant you never beat someone away from the lights. Slip roads are a different matter, when you simply sailed past them in 2nd and changed up to 6th at 70mph.
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Well, as you have specced driver support, for fun I actually bothered to see how many times I touched the pedals on my 11 mile mixed road commute this morning, out of interest.
Once out of the drive. Turned left immediately, set the system. Touched the pedals again two miles later on approach to a roundabout with nobody in front of me at that moment to make my car slow down. Reset on roundabout. It's clever enough to resume your set speed, UNLESS you have significant input from the steering, so it wibbled round the roundabout at about 20 until I straightened the wheel, then off it went back up to as near 60 as it could get (caught up with lorry).
Then once more in town at another roundabout, and finally, brakes at destination.
Lots of queues along the way, including one really slow stretch of about a mile.
So that's what, four times. I'm so lazy. :)
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Just tweaked the order slightly - didn't go for a camera (that's wot windows is for, innit?) but have specced the park assist pilot option - it's an extra £200 but, I mean, ROBO-PARKING...
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Lovely.
If there was one thing I wish mine had from factory it's the rear camera.
If there is one thing I don't miss from my previous car it's the auto parking.
So it's jolly good we're not all built the same way!
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>> Lovely.
>>
>> If there was one thing I wish mine had from factory it's the rear camera.
>>
>> If there is one thing I don't miss from my previous car it's the auto
>> parking.
>>
>> So it's jolly good we're not all built the same way!
>>
>>
>>
And based on that sensible advice I've changed the order to add the camera instead...
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>> one thing I wish mine had from factory it's the rear camera.
The mirrors work fine on my jalopy, and if it reverses close to anything it squeaks a warning with increasing urgency. As for Park Assist, do me a bleeding favour... I know these electromechanical devices don't cost much to buy as part of a new jalopy package, but they will cost plenty in labour etc. when they go wrong out of warranty.
I can drive my own car thanks. I wish I could make the wireless work though. A bit of idiot prole clamour would make a change from my own doom-laden thoughts.
It's just back from the garage with the new thermostat and running properly at last, on noticeably lighter throttle. 168 quid, mostly for the 2 hours' labour. Should be OK for a while fingers crossed.
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Park Assist?
Blimey.
I'd just always assumed you were a bloke FF.
Just goes to show, you never can tell.
;-)
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>> Park Assist?
>>
>> Blimey.
>>
>> I'd just always assumed you were a bloke FF.
>>
>> Just goes to show, you never can tell.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
It seemed a fun toy - and it wasn't for me... On reflection though I cannot remember the last time I parallel parked a car so have gone for the camera option instead!
The Youtube videos of the system don't look stunningly impressive either, and since everyone parks on the pavement around here anyway I think it'd just get confused.
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Robot parking? This is robot parking.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ3MSJ1VQME
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Wed 29 Apr 15 at 16:41
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>> This is robot parking.
I dunno WDB... wouldn't want a giant forklift squishing anything under the jalopy.
Used to use a thing called the Zidpark in the City, a steel-framed stack of car shelves. You drove your car onto some rollers and it was then rolled forward into a lift, raised to whatever shelf was empty and rolled sideways onto the shelf, the whole process fully automatic. Made for modern cars though, wouldn't take my R Type Bentley.
It isn't there any more, and I would think cost its promoters a fortune. Can't have been profitable surely?
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 29 Apr 15 at 16:51
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I used to work in an office in the West End which had a roof top private car park. You drove into a lift, went up to the roof, parked your car and walked down a flight of stairs to the office.
It had the added advantage that you could slope off for a bit of a kip in your car once you'd been seen by the boss to be in. That plan failed of course if he decided to go out in his car or get something from it during the day.
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How does that last bit differ from any other office building with a car park?
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In that you ( well, "they" of course ) couldn't be seen from the office windows.
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FF do you use land-assist?
(Not sure whether that would be a good or bad idea anyway, after the recent Germanwings...)
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>> FF do you use land-assist?
>>
>> (Not sure whether that would be a good or bad idea anyway, after the recent
>> Germanwings...)
>>
No... the plane can land itself, but rarely does. Once a year, on average. It's a somewhat ungraceful manoeuvre if I'm honest.
Mind you, my brother has it on his Passat CC and reckons it can get the car into spaces he wouldn't think of attempting normally.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Thu 30 Apr 15 at 11:57
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Welcome to the joys of Volvo ownership FF! And congrats on the deal you got.
The 8-speed geartronic / D4 engine is what is in my V70 and I find it a fine combination. Rarely does it get caught out by anything on a normal drive, and 99.9% you are in the right gear / torque curve on the engine.
I think you will find it is different to the BMW and Audi gearbox, which I think are from Borg, but no less good because of it.
In the Volvo is is an Aisin (spelling?), and these are also used by Lexus I understand.
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>> In the Volvo is is an Aisin (spelling?), and these are also used by Lexus I understand.
It will be an Aisin AW gearbox then. Which used to be Aisin-Warner which was originally a joint venture between Aisin Seiki and BorgWarner.
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>> Mind you, my brother has it on his Passat CC and reckons it can get the car into spaces he
>> wouldn't think of attempting normally.
I tried it on the demo Passat CC I had. It sure can get into smaller space than you'd attempt. It is quite 'aggressive' with steering angle to get the car in - that's because it is relying on the sensors on the side of the bumper. It got really close to the other car.
I tried it with parallel parking too but I was sure it would hit the other car so aborted.
I have heard of someone showing off and getting his Octavia into a really small space. But the driver could get back out! Most of these auto parking cars do not have a button to get them out of a space. I see the next BMW 7 series will park itself after you have got out of the car.
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>> it is relying on the sensors on the side of the bumper.
I wonder how accurate it would be with dirty sensors?
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Arrrrggghhh... typical, just managed to knock something over and put a foot-long scratch all the way across the bumper of the Insignia.
May T-Cut out.
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>> Arrrrggghhh... typical, just managed to knock something over and put a foot-long scratch all the
>> way across the bumper of the Insignia.
>>
>> May T-Cut out.
>>
I bet it doesn't ! :-)
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>> I bet it doesn't ! :-)
>>
Couldn't find the T-Cut. Used a Magic Eraser sponge (carefully!) instead and it's gone completely. Fortunately I think it went through the thick layer of dirt, clear-coat and the paint protection stuff the dealer applied and didn't actually damage the paint underneath.
Was really annoyed as it looked like the typical deep white scratch which you could feel with your fingernail. Never underestimate the power of T-Cut, saved me from an enormous bill when I accidentally reversed a hired van into a stack of timber.
Decent coat of wax over the top and no one will ever be the wiser...
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 2 May 15 at 17:59
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Progress report:
Order tracker still says eight weeks to go. Bored now. How can it take two months to build a car?
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>> Progress report:
>>
>> Order tracker still says eight weeks to go. Bored now. How can it take two
>> months to build a car?
It takes about 4 hours on the line to build a car. Trouble is, they don't start the R/H drive line for two months......
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I don't know how it is in the rest of Europe other than the UK, but in my experience in North and South America I have never waited for more than a few of days, if that, for a new car.
I still find it amazing that someone will cough up so much money for something they can't have for months.
I understand what the car companies like it, they are effectively building the car that they will sell you with your money, but it is beyond me why the consumers accept it.
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Eight weeks to build is ten to twelve until delivery.
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>> Eight weeks to build is ten to twelve until delivery.
18 to 20 after the boat overturns in the solent....
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Or longer if it is damaged in transit, bashing the dents out and a respray take a while.:-)
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A colleague in the early 80s ordered a new Escort Ghia. I think it was dropped at the docks or something. Anyway, it was about three weeks late with the rectifications. That car was never right.
Don't worry, it'll be fine :)
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The best part of buying a new car as for all things is the anticipation. Actually owning the things is always a bit of a let down. In a couple of days after delivery it's just "the car" Same as the old one. Enjoys the wait!
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I've only ever bought one new car, and that was a Citroen :( BX16TRS. It was white, and I ordered it with blue tweed style upholstery and electric glass sunroof.
I had an expensive stereo fitted along with some tasty door speakers.
The gilt wore orf within just a few months ( I just didn't like it) so I outed the critter.
I also bought a new Transporter with the 2.1 fuel injected engine and I preferred driving that to any car.
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>> I also bought a new Transporter with the 2.1 fuel injected engine and I preferred
>> driving that to any car.
>>
I had a van version of those Transporters. Only a 1.9 petrol water-cooled with a 4-speed box. As you say, good to drive with a fantastic turning circle. With two exceptions:
1. Your legs were the front crumple zones.
2. Cross-winds best avoided.
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>>Cross-winds best avoided.
I lived in London at the time so it wasn't really a problem. Mine was a van too, I used it for my mobile car tuning business. Not ideal really, being the engine was at the rear + having a huge Sun motor tester in the back, but it drove better than any other van on the road, so I had to have one. Mine was an automatic and the box was a dream.
I began mobile tuning in a Honda Acty in 1978, progressed? to a Suzuki version of the same, then I had a Colt L300. When I started up on my own, I bought a funny little Daihatsu 2 cylinder van, sold that and bought a 2nd had long wheelbase Hiace, then went for the new VeeDub.
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My first Transporter was an H reg 1600 TD. Syncro. 4 speed manual with lockable diffs. Lots of my customers lived out in the country, up rough tracks, and my delivery service gave me an edge over my competitors. It was the last of the old rear engine jobs, and bought new at a huge discount as it had been sat on the docks at Harwich for 18 months!
It was slow as a slow thing, but gave sterling service and was replaced by a new model Long wheel base when I outgrew it.
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I'm still pleased with my Volvo FF. All the toys (apart from the rear camera)
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Five weeks to go.
Did a trip last week with irritating lack of newspapers so finally got around to reading the manual. Interesting paragraph:
The car will detect if you take your hands off the steering wheel when using lane assist and deactivate it after an aural warning
So the bad news is that it can't be trusted to drive itself on the M25 for the whole journey. The good news is that it's obviously capable of doing it for short periods which should make opening a sandwich and bottle of Coke Zero infinitely easier now I don't have to steer with my knees.
^^ Hypothetical only, one obviously doesn't eat or drink at the wheel and holds it in the approved ten-to-two position at all times, officer.
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Sit rep: It's in production! If all goes to plan, it's now only 5 days away.
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...and it's built. Presumably it works because it's now in "transportation to dealer".
'spose hitting F5 every ten minutes isn't going to make the ferry go faster.
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Sorry FF - it's a long thread, and I'm lazy, so please can you (or anyone else) remind me what 'it' is?
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 25 Jun 15 at 22:15
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Volvo V60, to save the tedious detour.
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It's here. AND IT'S AWESOME.
Heinz Tomato Soup Red (probably not official colour code), goes like proverbial off a shovel despite treating it gently, and sooooo comfortable inside. Steering somewhat heavier than Insignia which the test car wasn't (turns out it had adjustable steering force) but suspect muscles merely atrophied over the last two years.
Paddle shifters are fun too, though vaguely confusing with 8 gears to choose from. Sat nav lady not as polite as Vauxhall, but she can pronounce my street name correctly. Even if she did decide to take me a very peculiar route home. May need to read manual and have stern conversation.
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Glad that you're pleased, FF; hope it goes on giving those little pleasure-of-ownership frissons.
Is there a car made today that has truly heavy steering? I've been alternating between TDS and LEC lately (then away all week and not driving at all) and although the Mercedes steering requires the less effort of the two, nobody could describe the BMW's as heavy. Meaty, certainly, which - combined with the thick-rimmed wheel and strongly-sprung gear shift - is probably a conscious effort to make the driver feel more connected with the machine. I'd have to say it works.
The extra go is intoxicating, isn't it? I still find myself going rather childishly out of my way to find opportunities to hold on to third gear just to feel that shove in the back. Remind us which D-number yours is.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sat 11 Jul 15 at 20:33
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>> >> (or anyone else) remind me what 'it' is?
>>
>> www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=19612&m=433757&v=e
Thanks Dave - sorry, forgot I'd asked :)
Nice! D4 - does that make it the 181ps engine? According to HJ that's got a 7.6s 0-62, which used to be hot hatch territory.
Last edited by: Focusless on Sat 11 Jul 15 at 20:56
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It's one of the first of the 2016 model year, so 190bhp. Waiting for the sun to go down so I can take it for a night time spin and see how the magic auto-shading headlights work. Though was surprised to see a normal halogen lamp hiding in the headlamp cluster, no idea what that's for.
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The lights are really cool, seem to be xenon for dipped and partial main beam, and it throws in a halogen for extra lighting if needed. Can see it shading out oncoming traffic. Also, the DAB reception is light years ahead of the Vauxhall.
In other news, the collision avoidance works and I suspect the scooter riders who decided to pull out onto an NSL road without looking and lights on only one bike may need new underwear.
Unrelated but very good example of overworked police round this neck of the woods (ie lack of). Stand outside at night and all you can here is the distant buzz of small engines racing through the gears. Could probably track them by the discarded McDonald's cartons.
Not-so-good points (possibly specific to my V60):
* The USB port will see my iPod but reports everything else as "unreadable". Weirdly it read one USB stick once, and then decided after that to give up on everything. Suspect this may be my natural talent of breaking infotainment systems.
* I'm not entirely sure why it has front parking sensors, because they don't activate until you get to within about six inches of the target, at which point you get a solid tone. May need to experiment tomorrow.
* Needs a 3-point turn to get it into the drive. Insignia could do it in one. Which is odd, because they're the same length.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Sat 11 Jul 15 at 23:40
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* I'm not entirely sure why it has front parking sensors, because they don't activate until you get to within about six inches of the target, at which point you get a solid tone. May need to experiment tomorrow.
Front parking sensors on my A3 and the previous Passat CC didn't activate unless you had previously engaged reverse or had enabled it. The VAG cars with radar based auto-brake would enable front sensors automatically when you got near. Your Volvo sounds similar.
* Needs a 3-point turn to get it into the drive. Insignia could do it in one. Which is odd, because they're the same length.
Is a V60 as long as an Insignia? The Insignia is bigger surely? About 4.6m vs 4.8m?
Sounds like the Insignia had better lock on the steering. Length surely isn't the issue here.
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>> Is a V60 as long as an Insignia? The Insignia is bigger surely? About 4.6m
>> vs 4.8m?
>> Sounds like the Insignia had better lock on the steering. Length surely isn't the issue
>> here.
>>
Could be I'm just misjudging the angle. The entrance is only about 12 inches wider than the car so while I could sling the Insignia through it at speed, it could be I'm just suffering a mental block with the V60...
The parking sensors are active, just very late. I did wonder last night if they perhaps had a layer of protective film still on them. Shall check.
Thanks for the advice re: USB, will try a different computer.
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Insignia presently being valeted by Polish car wash. Watching one poor bloke scrubbing away at the dirt on the doors with despair on his face while another is getting perilously close to filling a second bin bag with rubbish.
Getting good value for my £10.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Sun 12 Jul 15 at 10:19
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>> * Needs a 3-point turn to get it into the drive. Insignia could do it
>> in one. Which is odd, because they're the same length.
>>
>> Is a V60 as long as an Insignia? The Insignia is bigger surely? About 4.6m
>> vs 4.8m?
>> Sounds like the Insignia had better lock on the steering. Length surely isn't the issue here.
>>
Is it RWD v FWD?
BIL used to have a V70? Volvo and was always complaining about the turning circle.
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>> Though was surprised to see a normal halogen lamp hiding in the headlamp cluster, no idea what that's for.
>> The lights are really cool, seem to be xenon for dipped and partial main beam, and it throws in a halogen for extra lighting if needed.
The halogen bulb is also there should you flash your lights at anyone. Xenon take a couple of seconds to reach full brightness, whereas halogen is instant. Also flashing xenon's on and off can prematurely shorten their life.
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Mine, and according to the Volvo forum, others, is particularly fussy about the actual format of the USB, and the format of the data. Apparently there are mp3s and then there are mp3s.
I have a stick that when formatted on XP resolutely refuses to work in the car, but when formatted in Windows 7 works fine. Also if I make an MP3 with Windows media player it won't read it. Make it with iTunes and it's fine. Something to with codecs or some such I believe.
Even so it will sometimes see and play tracks and albums that were deleted in the last format, so it's all a bit odd.
Play about and find what works, then stick with it.
Assume yours also plays DVDs? I use that feature a lot when waiting for Mrs C to finish work each day at pick up time.
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I'd forgotten the turning circle wast great.
A quick google shows the insignia at 11m and the volvo at 12m despite being smaller
Mine was an R Design, but with no options, so I had none of the gadgets you refer to, although the seats were fantastic, and even the base stereo was good
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>> Not-so-good points (possibly specific to my V60):
>>
>> * The USB port will see my iPod but reports everything else as "unreadable". Weirdly
>> it read one USB stick once, and then decided after that to give up on
>> everything. Suspect this may be my natural talent of breaking infotainment systems.
>>
It needs to be FAT32 format. Then it can be a bit picky about the MP3 format.
Not sure if the 2016 allows you to load POI into the SatNav or whether your send this via an app now. You can lose days loading them via a USB as the car only takes .gpx format but only of a Volvo specific XML format and only from a USB stick of less than 1GB.
>>
>> * Needs a 3-point turn to get it into the drive. Insignia could do it
>> in one. Which is odd, because they're the same length.
>>
That's because of the lock stops to accommodate the 18" (or optional 19") wheels the R-design comes with.
Get some wax on those wheels to protect the lacquer. Diamond cut will flake if you do not.
I love that Passion Red, that was the colour of my previous S60, never faded in 9 years.
Have fun getting to know your new car. I'd like to hear your feedback of the gearbox over time and how you get on with it as it is something I'd consider in future. Can't see diesel being my next car but trying to keep an open mind.
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 12 Jul 15 at 11:38
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Cheers GMAC, used a tool called Rufus to format the USB stick instead of the one built into Windows and it worked like a charm. Is there any benefit to copying the music to the car's own hard disk or would you just leave it on USB?
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I don't have that option with my car, I use Bluetooth and stream from my phone or use TuneIn radio from my phone. Since around MY 2014.5 or 2015 there have been apps in the car which I think gets it internet connection from tethering to the phone wirelessly.
I'd keep everything on a portable device as it's easier to remove and update than faff about with car interfaces. Just my personal preference others will no doubt have their preferences.
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Possible new car time - Crankcase
